UK To Ban Disposable Vapes (nytimes.com) 131
In an announcement earlier today, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said single-use vapes will be banned in Britain, with certain flavors restricted and regulations put in place around their packaging and displays. The New York Times reports: Mr. Sunak said that the ban, which is part of legislation that still has to be approved by Parliament, was intended to halt "one of the most worrying trends at the moment," before it becomes "endemic." "The long-term impacts of vaping are unknown and the nicotine within them can be highly addictive, so while vaping can be a useful tool to help smokers quit, marketing vapes to children is not acceptable," he said in a statement. Andrea Leadsom, Britain's health minister, said the measures were intended to make sure that vapes were aimed at adults who were quitting smoking, rather than children.
"Nicotine is highly addictive -- and so it is completely unacceptable that children are getting their hands on these products, many of which are undeniably designed to appeal to young people," she said in a statement. [...] While it is not illegal for people under 18 to smoke or vape in Britain, it is illegal for those products to be sold to them. By banning disposable vapes, and restricting the flavors and packaging of refillable vapes, the government hopes to make it far less likely that young people will experiment with e-cigarettes.
"Nicotine is highly addictive -- and so it is completely unacceptable that children are getting their hands on these products, many of which are undeniably designed to appeal to young people," she said in a statement. [...] While it is not illegal for people under 18 to smoke or vape in Britain, it is illegal for those products to be sold to them. By banning disposable vapes, and restricting the flavors and packaging of refillable vapes, the government hopes to make it far less likely that young people will experiment with e-cigarettes.
one of the most worrying trends at the moment (Score:5, Insightful)
If an unknown is your biggest worry you must not have many worries.
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Personally, I think vaping will increase life expectancy. Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, so fewer obesity-related deaths. And it seems to delay the onset of dementia.
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Re:one of the most worrying trends at the moment (Score:4, Insightful)
Feel free to ask your doctor what she thinks about inhaling things. Especially flavored vape juice with unregulated additives. Seems safe one day, and who knows what the formulation will change to on another day.
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They are regulated in the UK.
Goverment info [www.gov.uk]
Simple summary [gosmokefree.co.uk]
I finally quit smoking thanks to vaping (I use a refillable contraption), next is to quit vaping entirely which will be easier as you can ramp the nicotine down to zero, then you just have to deal with the physical habit of taking out your vape and having a quick toke.
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"then you just have to deal with the physical habit of taking out your vape and having a quick toke."
Good luck with that, it's the hardest part.
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I couldn't find anything on regulation of the ingredients, only on sale. If it's is anything like how pipe tobacco works in the UK, you can add pretty much anything food grade to the mix and combust it and hand waive that it is safe (it's not).
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Feel free to ask your doctor what she thinks about inhaling things. Especially flavored vape juice with unregulated additives. Seems safe one day, and who knows what the formulation will change to on another day.
I actually have and they said while it may be dangerous, and cause health problems, statistically it appears to be far safer than traditional smoking.
Re: one of the most worrying trends at the moment (Score:2)
Wow, what a concept huh?
Add to that the fact that most of the "SEVERE NEGATIVE HEALTH CONSEQUENCES THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT!!!!" articles have to do with black market liquids, not the stuff available in stores. I'm sure this ban totally takes that into account though.
Luckily the young can still get their favorite whipped cream flavored vodka. Or caramel flavored...but totally not marketed to kids!! Nosiree! Completely okay.
Personally I think this is a diabolical move to get people back on cigarett
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>Personally, I think vaping will increase life expectancy. Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, so fewer obesity-related deaths. And it seems to delay the onset of dementia.
It's a vasoconstrictor and messes with circulation. The further tissue is from a major artery, the faster it ages due to reduced oxygen supply. It does appear to be true that it reverses a degree of cognitive decline in the brain, though.
As for its suppressive qualities with respect to appetite... they can't be that strong since the
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It does appear to be true that it reverses a degree of cognitive decline in the brain, though.
Is that in young, still developing brains?
All the studies I've seen say it's very harmful: https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
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If you have cognitive decline in a young, developing brain there is a bigger problem to worry about.
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The existence of fat smokers proves nothing - they will, on average, get even fatter if they quit.
Addictiveness is not, per se harmful. And for something like dieting, where you don't want to fall off the wagon, addictiveness is a benefit.
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So you insult but don't bother to provide any actual argument to counter my observation.
What a pointless person you are.
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Personally, I think vaping will increase life expectancy. Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, so fewer obesity-related deaths. And it seems to delay the onset of dementia.
Yeah, but do they have to be single use?
Have you seen the amount of used vapes lying around the floor these days?
(yeah, we know, you pick them up for the LiPo betteries inside...)
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Personally, I think vaping will increase life expectancy. Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, so fewer obesity-related deaths. And it seems to delay the onset of dementia.
Yeah, but do they have to be single use?
Have you seen the amount of used vapes lying around the floor these days?
(yeah, we know, you pick them up for the LiPo betteries inside...)
The other crazy thing, is one person I spoke to said they were cheaper than the refills and tasted better than the refills. If this is really the case, then WTF!?
This really makes me want to understand the economics and profit margins on each.
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Vapes have been around for 20 years. If there was a health problem - or even a hypothesized health problem - there would be data by now. Personally, I think vaping will increase life expectancy. Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, so fewer obesity-related deaths. And it seems to delay the onset of dementia.
Remember when tobacco corps used to make similar claims? Even when they knew how harmful they were. They even made a big-budget Hollywood movie with stars & everything about that.
BTW, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. As we've learnt from corps over & over again, they love concealing evidence from the public & regulators. When are we gonna learn?
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BTW, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
The reverse is true too. Just because you don't know doesn't mean that you should assume something negative.
Re:one of the most worrying trends at the moment (Score:4, Insightful)
"The long-term impacts of vaping are unknown"
If an unknown is your biggest worry you must not have many worries.
Compared to the very, very well known long term effects of smoking?
Yep, let the fear of nebulous effects get all those vapers who used it to quit smoking back on the cancer sticks, right?
Was that post paid for by Phillip Morris?
Which is utterly besides the point, the UK isn't banning vaping, it's banning the single use disposable ones you see littering the streets and car parks, ones bought by kids so they don't have to hide their vape from their parents. This is reasonably sensible as it's not attacking vaping as a means of getting of cigarettes but looking at a problem of single use conspicuous consumption and rubbish problems as those single use vapes are almost always heading for the landfill (even if they can be recycled).
Re: one of the most worrying trends at the moment (Score:3)
But they also mention banning flavours, cause think of the children.
Anyone who vapes knows the tobacco ones don't taste like tobacco at all and most are gross.
My all day vape is very berry. What, I can't have that anymore cause of kids?
How do people not react more strongly to this? My very berry bottle looks professional and does not look enticing to a child.
If a company is packaging their product that may appear enticing to children fine the daylights out of them.
But don't ban flavours. It's absolutely
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Compared to the very, very well known long term effects of smoking?
Fucking moron. The only similarity between smoking and vaping is the nicotine... and you can buy vapes without nicotine. Why are you talking about something you only have opinions and no no knowledge of?
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I am personally more worried about what young people eat, the amount of a lot of nothing with fat and sugar, and general air quality in the cities. These are causing rise in cancer cases. So now we have the same number of people dying of lung cancer, even though less people smoke, and the rise in colon and rectal cancer due to low quality food and appalling eating habits.
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The market is very poorly regulated so God only knows what you're actually breathing in.
You're really behind the times on this. Towards the end of the year, the FDA released a list of all the vape products which have been authorized for sale in the US. [hhs.gov] Pay no attention to the fact they're all subsidiaries of "big tobacco", no underhanded crony capitalism going on there. /s
So, while the regulation is certainly in place, what is presently happening is like that famous line from Star Wars [youtube.com] - the FDA lacks the resources to prevent all the vapes which are coming in from China. As we know, China i
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The market is very poorly regulated so God only knows what you're actually breathing in.
You're really behind the times on this. Towards the end of the year, the FDA released a list of all the vape products which have been authorized for sale in the US. [hhs.gov] Pay no attention to the fact they're all subsidiaries of "big tobacco", no underhanded crony capitalism going on there. /s
So, while the regulation is certainly in place, what is presently happening is like that famous line from Star Wars [youtube.com] - the FDA lacks the resources to prevent all the vapes which are coming in from China. As we know, China isn't overly concerned with the health and well being of Americans, they're doing that whole Ferengi-like profits-come-first thing that they learned from watching us.
Will probably need to compare that list to whatever the EU lists. It’s generally felt the EU is both stricter and a number of years ahead, when it comes to deciding what not fit for humans.
Don't know where you are (Score:2)
I mean, Christ, the FDA can't get bloody Homeopathy off the shelves...
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You are ingesting VAST amounts of formaldehyde and other aldehydes every time you eat "the healthy and environmentally friendly replacement of the terrible hart destroying and arteries blocking saturated fats" Omega - 6 shit (seed oils) out there (an industrial by-products introduced in human diet in 1910), and, according to meta-studies, the only persisting Principal Component that is always found to strongly correlate with plethora of modern day diseases (worst than processed grains and sugar, culprits #
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Inappropriate use of Subject line: You're breathing a small amount of formaldehyde. Every single time you vape.
Really? So actual burning cigarettes AND vapes have formaldehyde in them? Do you have a link to data that demonstrates your claim?
Interesting: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
So apparently some (25% of samples) manufacturers are adding chemicals that appear to be formaldehyde. What the fuck? Why?
Regardless, the formaldehyde is not REQUIRED so ban the formaldehyde. It does not mean vapes necessarily contain formaldehyde. Think of it like this: You can buy two separate chocolate bars. They appear to be the s
Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't vape, but am I the only one getting tired of the "Won't somebody please think of the children" argument? Especially when they start banning flavors, as if teenagers are the only ones who can enjoy sweet-tasting things. Let them have their fun. Personally I think vaping should be legal everywhere--there's no such thing as second-hand vape smoke after all. What's with the moral panic about this as-far-as-we-know harmless activity?
Also, obligatory Lovejoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:4, Informative)
there's no such thing as second-hand vape smoke after all.
sorry, what? why should particulate in the air you exhale behave differently or follow different physic laws depending on the way you inhaled it? note that much of what you inhale with every breath comes out completely unchanged. meaning from the vape thingy to the environment through you and from there to any bystander, it's free vape for everyone near you, and guaranteed second hand if not more!
Re:Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed.
You are correct that there is second hand exposure from someone vaping near you in a closed environment, but there is also a lot of other second-hand exposure in almost any closed room. The restaurant customer in the next booth that ordered steak fajitas on a cast iron pan is sharing burning meat particulates with you. If you go to a park where someone is grilling hamburgers and hotdogs on a charcoal grill started with petroleum lighter fluid, you are sharing their "fumes". If you go to a concert, museum, planetarium, or rave where they use a fog machine to enhance the ambiance, you are breathing in the same aerosolized liquid that is in a vape device.
It always seemed hypocritical that many locations that allow wood cooking fires, charcoal grills, open flame stoves, or propane heaters but have a sign on the side that prohibits someone from using a vape device anywhere near the same location. Yeah, I agree people using vapes should be respectful of distance and not exhale within two meters of another customer, but I also think the mental association of nicotine and cigarettes have led to a slight overreaction to vaping when so many other similar particulate sources are not regulated the same way.
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Agreed.
You are correct that there is second hand exposure from someone vaping near you in a closed environment, but there is also a lot of other second-hand exposure in almost any closed room. The restaurant customer in the next booth that ordered steak fajitas on a cast iron pan is sharing burning meat particulates with you. If you go to a park where someone is grilling hamburgers and hotdogs on a charcoal grill started with petroleum lighter fluid, you are sharing their "fumes". If you go to a concert, museum, planetarium, or rave where they use a fog machine to enhance the ambiance, you are breathing in the same aerosolized liquid that is in a vape device.
It always seemed hypocritical that many locations that allow wood cooking fires, charcoal grills, open flame stoves, or propane heaters but have a sign on the side that prohibits someone from using a vape device anywhere near the same location. Yeah, I agree people using vapes should be respectful of distance and not exhale within two meters of another customer, but I also think the mental association of nicotine and cigarettes have led to a slight overreaction to vaping when so many other similar particulate sources are not regulated the same way.
This, there is always going to be second hand exposure.
The questions is, is this particular kind of second hand exposure dangerous? Unlike cigarettes vapes do not contain 300+ dangerous chemicals, several of which are highly carcinogenic. Water vapour is also heavier and does not travel as far as smoke particles do.
I never get why these kinds of discussions bring out anti-vapers who somehow like to ignore that it's gotten millions of people off of cigarettes for good. It's been the worst thing to happ
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why should particulate in the air you exhale behave differently or follow different physic laws depending on the way you inhaled it?
Someone doesn't understand that there is a difference between air with particulates in it and a vapor (what a vape produces).
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A capitalist system drunk on clickbait, realized long ago that one can find profit with both a pro-stance and an anti-stance. Don’t assume morals or concerns for children has anything to do with this.
Re:Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:4, Informative)
Nicotine isn't harmless, and is especially unlikely to be harmless to the developing brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
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Yeah I agree nicotine sucks, there are better drugs out there, but at least it's cleaner than inhaling burning leaf smoke. I don't understand the obstinate refusal to accept the existing of a "healthier" nicotine delivery system if that's your drug of choice.
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I don't understand the obstinate refusal to accept the existing of a "healthier" nicotine delivery system if that's your drug of choice.
The “Nanny” state is specifically targeting the banning of a product because of the propensity to market to children, so pretty sure the drug of “choice” in this case is None, regardless of how “clean” you deliver that highly addictive chemical to the child brain.
Re:Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:5, Informative)
You're focused on the use case of smokers switching to vaping (obviously a health benefit) whereas what is happening in the UK is that kids who have never smoked have started vaping (obviously a health concern). My 17yo boy estimates about 70% of his year vapes; my 15yo girl estimates about 20% of her year vapes. Much as it may offend you, this is in fact a public health issue affecting children more than any other group, and your oh-so-libertarian stance is actually just speaking up for the interests of vape manufacturers, which quite often means Big Tobacco.
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Much as it may offend you, this is in fact a public health issue affecting children more than any other group
Clearly the only solution is to make a law the affects everyone rather than the people who are directly affected.
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Yeah I agree nicotine sucks, there are better drugs out there, but at least it's cleaner than inhaling burning leaf smoke. I don't understand the obstinate refusal to accept the existing of a "healthier" nicotine delivery system if that's your drug of choice.
We recommend using a .22 calibre firearm if you plan to commit suicide. It discharges a less harmful bullet than larger calibres but is still more than enough to kill you.
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Skydiving isn't harmless. I am so glad we are busy controlling what other people can do because it might harm them when they make an informed choice.
Re:Nanny State Strikes Again (Score:5, Informative)
there's no such thing as second-hand vape smoke after all.
Would you [heart.org] like [healthline.com] to try [nih.gov] again [bmj.com]?
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Those all just say "duh we don't know if it's harmful"
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exposure to secondhand aerosols from e-cigarettes is associated with increased risk of bronchitis symptoms and shortness of breath among young adults, especially among those who don't smoke or vape themselves, the team reported last year in the journal Thorax.
Vape aerosols pose an especially high risk for infants and children because of their lower body weight and developing respiratory systems.
According to a 2017 studyTrusted Source, being exposed to even low concentrations of the components of vape aerosol can affect brain and lung development.
Conclusion: Secondhand nicotine vape exposure was associated with increased risk of bronchitic symptoms and shortness of breath among young adults.
Would you like to try again again?
P.S. I inadvertently linked to the study mentioned in the third link. Therefore, this link [ahealthiermichigan.org].
“Along with nicotine, non-vapers are also exposed to ultrafine particles from secondhand vape aerosol, which may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease,” Dr. Kipa added, during the podcast. “Secondhand vape aerosol also contains several known carcinogens that may increase the risk of certain cancers.”
Short term exposure to the chemicals in vape aerosol can cause irritation to your upper airways, your eyes, and your throat. More research is needed to determine the long-term damage caused by secondhand exposure to ESDs. However, one study linked consistent exposure to propylene glycol with asthma development in children. Propylene glycol is one of the primary chemicals found in vape aerosol.
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They must have searched for a LONG time to find a vape product that contained lead.
Notably, there are other studies reporting favorably on dispensing propylene glycol aerosols in hospitals to control infectious disease transmission.
There seems to be conflation between solid particulates such as found in combustion and the liquids aerosolized in a vape. Fine aerosolized SOLIDS are known to contribute to cardiovascular disease.
Of course, none of that is a recommendation to hand out e-cigs in kindergarten, but
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before, "there isn't any second hand vape".
now, "maybe it isn't even harmful".
next "hey, we all have to die of something"?
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Personally I think vaping should be legal everywhere
That makes as much sense as letting EVs drive on the sidewalk.
there's no such thing as second-hand vape smoke after all.
I accidentally walked through someone's vape cloud one time at the Universal Orlando theme park. It was like inhaling someone's rank Taco Bell fart. No thanks.
You wanna vape? Fine, find a designated smoking area and hang out with your pals in Marlboro Country.
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If it smelled like that, I hate to tell you this but that person apparently vapes AND eats at Taco Bell. You got it from both ends.
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Personally I think vaping should be legal everywhere--there's no such thing as second-hand vape smoke after all.
I live in a semi-rural part of Scotland. Walking along country lanes you see two types of litter in the main, fast food remnants (usually empty Coke bottles and the like), and disposable vapes.
So, yeah, let's have more disposable vapes, who cares about the trash that people throw away.
Or... Create useful, logical rules? (Score:2)
Why explicitly pick a product to demonize? Just make it cost something extra to throw things away. And subsidize reusable things. Force reusable because it costs more (both money and time wise).
Re:Or... Create useful, logical rules? (Score:5, Informative)
Because the way to do that is a tax, and everybody hates the T word while at least some of the people love the B word.
Disposable vapes are awful. You're tossing a perfectly good lithium ion battery that's been used only once. Besides the waste, they can start fires [theguardian.com] if not disposed of properly, and smokers are not known for disposing of their waste properly.
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Not necessarily a tax. Bring back the old deposit system they used to use for glass bottles.
You pay extra when you buy the bottle, and you get it back when you return the empty bottle. That way you're incentivised to return it, and if people do still leave them laying around people will pick them up to claim the deposit.
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Why explicitly pick a product to demonize? Just make it cost something extra to throw things away. And subsidize reusable things. Force reusable because it costs more (both money and time wise).
Before you pick another colorful word to market recycling, prove that current bullshit “solution” is one first.
Bigclive will be disappointed (Score:2)
He's been collecting ones that were improperly disposed of for the rechargeable lithium cells. [youtube.com]
Ironically, over here on the other side of the pond I've personally never encountered them as litter, only just the old fashioned kind of cigarette butts. Could also be that vaping is still seen as kind of unmasculine (hence the slang term douche flute) here in the southern USA. If you're gonna give yourself cancer, don't be a pussy about it, or something along those lines. *shrug*
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vaping is the same as smoking minus combustion gases and at a lower temperature. a part from that there is a lot going on. if you are also vaping commercial products you have no idea what potentially harmful substances might end up in you vape, just like with regular commercial cigarettes (e.g. as opposed to using a vaporizer with straightforward plant mass). anyhow, the effects of those particulates on the body are not fully understood in either case, so to me there is no question that any concern you coul
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vaping is the same as smoking minus combustion gases and at a lower temperature.
Your understanding is insufficient if you make a statement like this.
Burning organic matter creates particulate matter, heating glycerin does not. Burning organic matter launches a whole series of chemical changes, heating glycerin releases a chemically stable vapor.
There are far more differences, but really, you just do not understand what is going on therefore your opinion is invalid.
If it moves, tax it (Score:3)
If it stops moving, subsidize it.
If it's ubiquitous, ban it.
And if it doesn't exist, mandate it.
I heard some guy on the NPR speculating that an outright ban on these things might get some of the kids off of them, but would get a lot of the adults back into cigarettes.
Seems like something one might want to try to quantify to a few more significant digits than mere speculation before deploying the banhammer. Or, you know, just let people do their thing without the nanny state going after them.
If I could ban all the shit that offends *my* sensibilities, I might be the only one left standing after the revolution came.
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Herp de derp gubbmint bad
And yet you're not posting from America, not the Libertarian Paradise of the Congo.
Re: If it moves, tax it (Score:2)
La dee da, government is infallible in my chardonnay socialist utopia because I'm rich enough to buy my way out of any fallout from moronic feel-good policies that screw over everyone else.
I infer you're not posting from North Korea, comrade.
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You're adopting the uniform, juvenile, and frankly stupid position that all government is bad. I have literally never seen you say a positive thing about it. Being a fuckwit, you of course lack any nuance in your reasoning so infer that if I don't hold the same utterly inane extreme position as you, I must therefore hold the opposite utterly inane extreme position.
This is, just like everything else you seem to think, deeply stupid.
Even slightly rational people can see a world where sometimes the government
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I heard some guy on the NPR speculating that an outright ban on these things might get some of the kids off of them, but would get a lot of the adults back into cigarettes.
Erm how?
The UK government isn't banning vaping, it's banning the sale of single use vapes. No one who vapes as a means to quit smoking will be depending on single use vapes, the economics don't make sense even to someone who used to justify the cost of smoking.
The problem in the UK with single use vapes isn't really the kids... It's the litter. Huge amounts of single use vapes are being discarded on the streets, car parks and other public spaces. At best they will end up in landfill as I doubt they ca
Vape-o-nomics (Score:2)
Tom Nicholas just released the first in a three part series yesterday, "Why Everything is Addictive Now." It explores this and other favorite topics like enshittification and is worth a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuTQbOo3Y30/ [youtube.com]
Environmental impact? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was hoping that the reason was because all the plastic and battery waste that they create. Kids will still find a way to vape if they really want to. Banning disposables only makes a difference from an environmental standpoint
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This is the reason I'm in favour of the ban on disposables, you see them discarded all over the place in the UK. My countryfolk are lazy shits at the best of times and litter is often bad here. I've used a refillable one for years and it is so much better.
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This will prevent some kids from taking up vaping. They will have to buy a more expensive reusable vape pen now, and won't want to discard it so will need to keep it secret from their parents.
It may seem like a small thing, but all these barriers to entry help reduce the numbers.
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They killed the only effective tobacco cessation (Score:5, Informative)
I smoked heavily for 25 years.
Then I vaped heavily for 12 years.
Then I quit vaping. I haven't put anything in my lungs for 2 years. No side effects as far as I can tell, apart from the diminished lung capacity I already had going into vaping.
I was a hardcore smoker. I smoked 3 packs a day. I started vaping around 2011 when it was free and essentially unregulated. The vape pens and small refillable tanks weren't doing it. Not by far. But I kept at it and eventually got into high-power mods, drippers and mixing my own liquids with my own - rather high at the beginning - nicotine levels.
Vaping is NOT an easy way out of tobacco: it really takes getting into it and mastering quite a few technical concepts for vaping to be an effective replaceement for tobacco, for those who are truly addicted to nicotine. But if you were willing to stick to it, eventually you could free yourself from the tobacco addiction at the fraction of the running cost of smoking.
I successfully quit smoking thanks to vaping. But what I did is impossible to do today: cheap access to powerful mods, atomizers and liquid ingredients is gone. Buying online is banned in many countries. The vaping industry is now just as regulated as the tobacco industry is, for no rational reasons, and vaping is now almost as expensive as smaoking.
Vaping was not a surefire way to stop smoking when it was free and unregulated. Not it's virtually guaranteed to be totally ineffective.
All of us vapers knew big pharma and the tobacco industry would eventually killed vaping, and they did. They totally annihilated it. It's really sad for smokers around the world.
Me, I still have all my vaping gear - dozens of mods, rebuldable atomizers, wire, cotton... that I collected over the years, and quite a lot of high-stength 60% VG nicotine base that I bought for very cheap when it was unregulated and put in cold storage in nitrogen-filled blue bottles for the day it would be banned.
Now I loan my very nice vaping gear and slowly give away my nicotine stash to help other people I know who smoke, who express a genuine desire to quit, who I feel have the technical inclination to get into vaping and stick to it, and I teach them how to rebuild atomizers and mix liquids.
I don't have a need for all that stuff anymore: I wasn't expecting to ever quit vaping but I did. So I figured I might as well allow a few more people to experience vaping the way it was when it was free, if I reckon they have a decent chance tto be helped by it.
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In Australia they recently banned vaping.... unless you have a prescription. So the nasty unregulated vape juice goes away, and the process of quitting gets supervised by a doctor, who should (hopefully) be aware of potential side effects etc. The vapes are now regulated like any other prescription drug, which, if nothing else, should keep the heavy metals and manufacturing contaminants out of the product.
I'm sure the system isn't perfect, but it seems like an improvement on the previous free-for-all. Hopef
Re:They killed the only effective tobacco cessatio (Score:5, Informative)
In Australia they recently banned vaping....
Whoops, forgot a link: https://www.tga.gov.au/news/me... [tga.gov.au]
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the process of quitting gets supervised by a doctor
I guarantee you no doctor will tell you how to coil an atomizer safely for best performances, to avoid hot spots and acrolein production, maximize pleasure and nicotine delivery - thereby making the mod an effective replacement for cigarettes.
This 100% sets up vaping for failure.
I'm not saying the wild unregulated vaping market of 15 years ago was perfect, far from it. I know I vaped a lot of stuff I really shouldn't have put into my lungs. A modicum of regulation of the juices and ingredients was needed. B
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The fact they can ban vapes without actually banning tobacco (and more importantly, banning its use in public places where others have to breathe it in) is a true testament to the power of the tobacco lobby.
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I'm sure people will say "oh but vapers will get their vapes from online now!" as if it's big some gotcha. And maybe some will. I'm sure also that there will be smuggling & counterfeiting and cops will bust some operations. Even with all that it will still be a fraction of the number of people who'll vape in the absence of regulation, not to mention all the kids who simply won't get hooked on this shit because it used to be easy obtain and almost normalised and now it isn't.
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It's not for "no rational reason" and not a move by "big pharma".
The rational reason is that while congratulations to your journey, more people make the reverse journey - as clearly shown by the simple fact that CHILDREN are vaping.
The tobacco industry has no interest in vaping. It has an interest in turning vaping from something that leads people away from smoking into something that gets them into smoking. And they've been successful.
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The tobacco industry has obviously moved into vaping big time. As you say, today's vapers could be tomorrow's smokers. But even if they don't, nicotine is still highly addictive so vapers become repeat customers for life. If you look at the advertising of vapes, and compare to tobacco ads from the 70s & 80s, the parallels are instantly obvious. Since there is little regulation these things are obviously pitched in a way to attract new vapers - kids and young adults. I also bet that tobacco is lobbying h
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Totally.
Yes, I agree. Wouldn't be at all surprised if the major vaping companies are all owned by tobacco companies at this point.
And yes, it needs to be banned. Why smoking isn't already illegal is beyond me, but you can argue with a stupid grandfather'd in argument. Not so for vaping.
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Then ban the sale to children. I'm 200% okay with that.
Even ban it to adults who don't smoke if you really insist on banning it.
But don't ban adult smokers from giving vaping a real try: they're adults and they're already ruining their own lungs. Let them buy whatever the hell vape gear they want and do what they want with it, and don't tax the shit out of the liquids.
The fact that government denies fully consenting adults from buying what they need at ordinary tax rates to have a real chance to quit smokin
Re: They killed the only effective tobacco cessati (Score:2)
Vapes are probably unhealthy. But vapes are probably healthier than smoking. Thus easy access to vaping might improve public health, reduce public health, or all points in between, depending on how many people are vaping as opposed to nothing, and how many people are vaping as
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This illustrates how all harm reduction efforts revolve around the substitution effect. In other words, the way goods and activities are substituted for each other is critical to understanding the related phenomena, and also difficult.
You can substitute things besides the original thing. My pet theory is that we went from a world where most people smoked, to a world where most people are obese. Provable? Very hard. If the criteria is "we stopped smoking", then the campaign against smoking was an undeniable success. If the criteria was "we are healthier or happier", it's much harder to say (lifespan is not improved for one thing).
Human behavior is really hard.
This is what I've been thinking as I read the arguments about banning tasty flavors and colorful marketing because it "targets children".
1) All humans want stuff that tastes good; we only think fruit flavors as "for children" because of how we associate the culture of childhood with Candyland, Wonka, etc.
2) Colorful packaging works on adults too. Brands aren't putting "Now! With 20% MORE power!" in grey and black graphics on bottles of dish soap.
3) What's our desired outcome? If we want to ban things for th
It's not the only effective tobacco cessation (Score:3)
I do something very unpopular - I chew nicotine polacrilex gum.
I've been doing it for about 6 years, and I previously quit smoking and was using it during 2 year and 5 year quits before that. I even stopped chewing the gum for some periods, though when stress comes, the gum comes out.
The gum is not a substitute for inhaling a cigarette, but I broke that habit. The slow delivery time of the polacrilex gum attenuates the addiction to nicotine - it has a lot to do with the fast delivery via the lungs, appare
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But there are rational reasons. While it's great that it helped you quit, it's also getting a lot of other people hooked. Vape pens may have been invented as a cessation device, but for many they are the scooter that seems safe and attractive... The only thing they have going for them is that it looks like few people move on to cigarettes from vaping.
Should never have been allowed in first place (Score:2, Interesting)
Disposable vapes are easy for kids to afford & acquire which is probably the point as they become the next generation of vapers and smokers. And unsurprisingly the vape industry is keen to have new addicts come on board and advertises to that end - sexy, cool young adults getting ready for sexy sex while dragging on their sexy vapes in a range of flavors. On top of that, research shows people who start vaping are more likely to move onto cigarettes later. And even if they stay with vapes the long term e
The lost lithium is my biggest issue with them. (Score:3)
Those disposable Vapes have a 4 to 800 micro ampere rechargeable lithium battery and all of the electronics for recharging it.
The fact that they are designed to be disposable should be criminal.
I've been collecting them when people toss them out at work (I'm the janitor) and using them to replace the old/dead batteries in my old Bluetooth headsets and speakers.
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I was looking for this comment.
I am amazed that it wasn't brought up immediately.
It doesn't make any sense to manufacture single-use electronics. They are just going to end up on the ground or in the trash (by design!).
Opinion & Giggle (Score:2)
I don't mind an extra tax on disposable vapes. They are an e-waste problem and it hurts me on some level to see lithium batteries chucked like that.
As to bans on vapes generally or specific flavors, let me know how that works for you. We've had fantastic experiences with prohibition here in the states. 10/10, <borat>great success</borat>
My son's recent high school experience was that people would complain when someone would poop in the vape room. Just because there are toilets in there doesn
Worrisome habit (Score:2)
The worrisome habit I see here is banning something because it *might* be abused. Make sure you have laws about kids buying nicotine and move on, it's not your job to parent these kids.
What about disposable vapes without nicotine? I use those for my oral fixation but to not get back into smoking. Should we ban something because it's a gateway to smoking? We should probably ban baby bottles, nip this thing in the bud.
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off the gay market vapes...
But only during pride month. The rest of the year the market is kind of rough.
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#trump2024
Actually, under the Trump administration the federal minimum smoking age was raised to 21. While I personally have no dog in that fight (I've never smoked), it is a somewhat worrying trend that the USA has taken another right away from 18-year-olds, who are ostensibly adults.
In the UK, which is what TFA is about, you can still buy tobacco products and vapes at 18. In the USA, it's 21 in all 50 states. [fda.gov] Put that in your pipe and smoke it, assuming of course, that you're over 21.
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In California you can buy weed at 18 with an Rx. You can get an Rx for the cost of an office visit, probably for less than the cost of an ounce of weed.
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I guess the logic behind that is that THC is supposed to be significantly less physically addictive than nicotine. I still can't help but see it as kind of inconsistent when the government ratcheted down on flavored vapes and tobacco, while simultaneously easing up on marijuana (although admittedly, that's at state levels - weed remains illegal under federal law, it's just not being enforced).
Re: SAD! (Score:2)
Then again, the UK government is talking about incrementally increasing the smoking age over time so that nobody ever reaches the smoking age again. Itâ(TM)s a way of banning smoking without taking it away from current smokers who are doing it legally.
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But one of those is much, much more likely than the other.
The vape thing is, well, a shitshow in terms of regulation or utter lack of it. For historic reasons, vapes are not regulated exactly like tobacco, an it's 100% legal to market them directly to kids. The only thing preventing it degenerating completely is relying on tobacco companies to not be too shitty (or maybe relying on them fearing what legislation might result if they are too shitty). That did not work.
Regulation about vapes is coming.
The weir
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The other thing they’ll need to regulate is the appearance of a vape. You can now buy vapes that look like eye liners or pens, for example. This makes it harder for teachers to enforce in school.
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Indeed, and this falls into the general category of "and this is why we can't have nice things". Companies will market massively addictive substances to kids and provide them in a form they prefer and to help them conceal their addiction even if it's illegal for kids to actually buy the stuff.
Yes some adults out there like sweet flavours and disposable vapes that look like other objects, but companies are mostly doing this to sell their shit to kids.
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The legal age used to be 16 in the UK, so they've also raised it to be in line with alcohol. The US has basically done the same thing.
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If smokers drink nicotine drinks like the caffeine addicts, or take pills, etc, so other people wouldn't be affected, there would be much less hostility towards smoking.
Smoking certainly does carry a high potential for inconsiderate users to make their habit into a nuisance for others, but that's generally not the main contributing factor which causes governments to oppose an addictive product. You might not even know someone is using amphetamines and yet they're still highly regulated.
Then on the flipside you've got marijuana, which when the wind is blowing the wrong way I can't even stand to be outside if my neighbor is having a smoke. The law which made that legal had
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> Then on the flipside you've got marijuana, which when the wind is blowing the wrong way I can't even stand to be outside if my neighbor is having a smoke. The law which made that legal had such popular appeal, it passed in my state with a 71% majority.
Thankfully it's still illegal over here and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it so, nor non medical uses clearly.
Unfortunatley it being illegal doesnt stop it's use being rife.
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