The US Military is Embedded in the Gaming World. Its Target: Teen Recruits (theguardian.com) 109
The U.S. Navy has ramped up efforts to recruit young gamers and esports fans to meet recruitment goals, allocating up to $4.3 million this year for esports marketing. This includes hosting video game tournaments and having sailors compete as the esports team "Goats & Glory." Critics argue targeting minors for military marketing normalizes war and raises ethical concerns, The Guardian reports. While the military cannot formally recruit those under 17, advertising and direct interaction with minors for recruitment purposes is permitted. Veterans groups oppose this, noting the military relies on gaming's appeal to young teens, whose brains are still developing, to influence future decisions about military service, the report adds.
What if nobody wants to be in the military anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Russia, England, the US are all experiencing the same thing: failing to hit recruitment goals. Between movies, games, and in particular social media coming out of Ukraine of kids getting shot at (and having to shoot back) in an active war, nobody wants to get involved in these things. From birth kids are exposed to the very grim reality of war, and voices both for and against it.
If nobody wants to go to war, how will government wage war? Russia is just barely hanging on to their immediate recruitment needs by sending their prison population through the meat grinder, and many of the best and brightest fled the country at the first hint of war. They all have (much, much better) jobs now and are unlikely to return before retirement age, if ever.
I think there's a lesson to be told here; going to war means your upper middle class will immediately flee, and your financial system will be kneecapped indefinitely. And also that nobody (who hasn't already been brainwashed) really wants to take a bullet for their country.
Re:What if nobody wants to be in the military anym (Score:5, Interesting)
Robots. It's already happening. The USAF and Navy are going for "soldier + 5 drones" in next gen air craft and ships.
I saw a blurb about some automated mini tank in Ukraine but there weren't enough details to know what was really going on there.
Maybe future combat will be one kid playing Command & Conquer but with real robots moving around. Or like Ender's Game but with robot ships instead of human pilots taking orders.
let's play global thermonuclear war (Score:3)
let's play global thermonuclear war
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let's play global thermonuclear war
How about a nice game of chess?
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How about a nice game of chess?
And far away in some recess
The Lord and the Devil are now playing chess
The Devil still cheats and wins more souls...
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People, well mainly the military -- ironically enough, have forgotten that the most important part of war is gathering and analyzing intel. Knowing who and what to strike -- that's very hard to do with pure SIGINT.
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"Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!"
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That sounds like a good way to get oneself sorted into hell.
I can't wait. (Score:1)
I can't wait until we spending trillions of dollars on basically soldiers playing video games taking place in reality instead of just on your computer. Maybe we should design an arena so that these drones can fight with each other instead of causing huge collateral damage.
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Obviously by sending 2 million well armed men across the border to attack them.
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:3)
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:5, Insightful)
As a vet, I kind of agree, but feel the need to expand and clarify a bit. Go back to the old yarns - the most expensive military is one that loses. The next most expensive is one that wins. The cheapest military? One that doesn't need to fight.
Unfortunately, semi-recent events have shown that there are still bad actors out there. As such, militaries are still needed.
Remember, Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin viewed the Ukraine military as weak. He attempted a thunder run like what the US got away with during desert storm. It failed, and we get what we see here, which is incredibly expensive for both Ukraine and Russia.
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The Ukrainian civil war might also have had something to do with it
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Another uneducated twat who thinks he knows things.
I'd make sure comments like this aren't true if you look in a mirror before making them.
You're falling for Putin's lies. Pretty much everything out of his mouth is a lie.
The USA wasn't looking to recruit Ukraine into NATO. Saying that's the reason for his invasion is simply politics. It's like saying that WMD was the reason the USA invaded Iraq for the second time. A convenient excuse.
The reality is, of course, complicated. But it involves Ukraine slipping out of puppet status and Putin thinking he cou
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:2, Insightful)
I think there's a lesson to be told here; going to war means your upper middle class will immediately flee, and your financial system will be kneecapped indefinitely. And also that nobody (who hasn't already been brainwashed) really wants to take a bullet for their country.
That's not being "brainwashed", that's believing in a cause greater than yourself that you're willing to fight and die for, not that you somehow want that to happen (you're thinking of Islam, where the best honor comes from being a martyr. Those fighting for religion ARE brainwashed. Fighting for the preservation of life and liberty is not.) If you think that only the poor participate, then you know nothing of what it means to serve in a modern military. Ukraine's soldiers aren't fighting because they're po
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:4, Insightful)
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I am old so the question is moot, but if my country is threatened I will fight regardless. Not seeing why anyone young wants to go to Iran or Venezuela or whatever the current enemy du jour just to die though. There a
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Nobody was dragging religion in to this, thanks for participating.
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The few that believed invading Iraq would bring "peace" and "freedom": Tell me, are they still believing?
Afghanistan is a cheap-shot but I'll go there: Do people still believe regime-change is an effective punishment? Does it make a safer world?
Today's youth lived in the shadow of the war on terror: They've seen the promises of 'peace' and 'freedom' disappear, the right to invade and destroy weapons of mass-destruction become a man behind a curtain. They've seen they don't have leaders building a saf
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military an (Score:3)
First, just to clear something up: I'm a millennial.
Afghanistan is a cheap-shot but I'll go there: Do people still believe regime-change is an effective punishment? Does it make a safer world?
The goal for that isn't punishment. Punishment would be like wars past (think WWII and earlier) where you rape Nanjing or carpet bomb Berlin to terrorize or otherwise demoralize the enemy into submission.
Regime changed is aimed at stabilizing a region in your favor to make it harder for your enemy to re-establish themselves. That may have happened in Afghanistan regardless as the new Taliban so far appears at least somewhat at odds with Al-Qaeda as opposed
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:2, Interesting)
Joining the military is a sucker's path.
If you want to "help" your country AND get paid, there are other more lucrative routes to kill or help kill. Become a contractor or, if you're up for it, just show up in Gaza and grab a house! If you don't, someone else will anyway!
Joining the military is like volunteering to work at a bank.
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Re:What if nobody wants to be in the military anym (Score:4, Insightful)
Soldiering has always been the choice of last resort, a way out of desperate financial problems. But it's failing even at that because it's a bad deal: you may get killed, you may end up with a lifetime of medical issues and the government won't necessarily pay for it, politicians will actively harm your well being in the military for idiotic ideological crusades even their supporters may not care about, the skills you learn on the job don't necessarily prepare you for any kind of civilian life, the conditions even in peacetime are frequently poor, and ultimately there exists no job where you will pay a higher price for enforcing the will of an oligarchy who is much more clearly your enemy than any foreign threat.
It's not really a mystery.
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:1)
You can deliver pizzas or flip burgers for the same as entry level military work. And you get five days off, access to unlimited porn and almost unlimited Xbox/PlayStation. At this point the only thing the military provides is a halfway reasonable social safety net got retired GI and possibly a path to a college edition, which most 18 year olds aren't super focused on. Last resort in America is flipping burgers. Military service is an unnecessary risk at any economic level in America
Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:5, Informative)
Uh...
Entry level military very quickly makes more than burger flippers.
E-3, under 2 years, 2024: $2377.50/month. $28,530/year. $13.72/hour.
As I entered as an E-3, if I'd entered today, that's what I'd be earning in basic training.
That's before you add in that you're being provided housing, food, and medical care for free.
If they're not providing it, it's an extra $467.95 for food, ~$1500(it varies by location) for housing, per month. Healthcare would be worth around $4k/year.
Add that stuff in and you're up to $27/hour.
As least for the US, military is very much above burger flipper.
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Burger flippers make $25/hr in california. Most 18 year olds who aren't getting shot at don't care about health care. So what you're saying is that for the last two years of enrollment in the army you'd be making marginally more than the buger flipper in year one. And if you don't like your boss, you can't quit. Kind of splitting hairs. I doubt the mortality rate of burger flippers even approaches that of infantry, which is a major consideration for a lot of people.
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Actually, they're making the equivalent of $27/hour after graduating basic. It goes up from there. Plus, add another grand or so if they get married.
And yes, if you're married and expecting kids, you want healthcare. Don't forget the retirement opportunity either.
Do you have a citation on new hire burger flippers making $25/hour? Because I just searched, and it's going to be $20/hour in a few months, not $25/hour now.
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Also I bet your average military guy is going to be more likely to land a date then your average burger flipper!
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I'd disagree with that, it has often been a choice seen as honorable, part of duty, a pathway for special privileges, etc...
Go back in time, if it was the "choice of last resort", in our racist past we wouldn't have been as opposed to black soldiers. Instead, it was often viewed as too honorable of a profession/duty for them.
In the Roman days, it was a path to citizenship, and still is. It pays a lot more than minimum wage, at least once you work your way up a bit.
There's actually more dangerous jobs out
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Your information is at least a year out of date. Russia isn't having a recruitment problem any more. They decided they're going to pay what they have to to mobilize poorer parts of the society, even with a meat grinder going on. They set the monthly goal at around 30.000 new recruits a month, and according to Ukrainian TG channels, they've met this goal for many months now. This is universally recognized as untenable on the Ukrainian side, and one of the reasons Ukrainian recruitment effort on the other sid
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Destroying national pride and vilifying your native population has consequences, sorry progs.
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Re: What if nobody wants to be in the military any (Score:2)
Re:What if nobody wants...Si vis pacem para bellum (Score:1)
Old Latin saying, means "If you seek peace, prepare for war." If every country decides to forego war and lays down their arms, except that one of them decides not to get with the program, what then?
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The majority of Americans 18-29 (54%) are still living at home. These
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Russia does not recruit! They draft! Same like Ukraine.
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They do both. They draft youth. They recruit those older.
One of the main reason why civil society in Russia is largely pro-war or at least doesn't care enough to be anti-war is because it's been made into a massive economic opportunity for men from poorer regions. These are recruited with sign up bonuses, good salary, and promises (that are largely being honored) of being recognised as national heroes. As in there are constant events in schools, markets and so on deifying veterans of the current war as grea
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Russia, England, the US are all experiencing the same thing: failing to hit recruitment goals.
Low birth rates?
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Russia, England, the US are all experiencing the same thing: failing to hit recruitment goals. Between movies, games, and in particular social media coming out of Ukraine of kids getting shot at (and having to shoot back) in an active war, nobody wants to get involved in these things. From birth kids are exposed to the very grim reality of war, and voices both for and against it.
If nobody wants to go to war, how will government wage war? Russia is just barely hanging on to their immediate recruitment needs by sending their prison population through the meat grinder, and many of the best and brightest fled the country at the first hint of war. They all have (much, much better) jobs now and are unlikely to return before retirement age, if ever.
I think there's a lesson to be told here; going to war means your upper middle class will immediately flee, and your financial system will be kneecapped indefinitely. And also that nobody (who hasn't already been brainwashed) really wants to take a bullet for their country.
Barely a century ago, the upper class in Europe was expected to serve (granted, as officers, us plebs made up the ranks). How quickly things change (The UK's Royals are expected to serve, King Charles was in the Navy, Prince Harry a chopper pilot, previous monarch, Queen Elizabeth II was an army driver in WWII, which has startled a few world leaders when they got into the royal Range Rover and One was behind the wheel).
The problem I see is three fold.
1. A military career has few benefits these days, e
Teens (Score:2)
The military has targeted teens for recruitment since the beginning of time.
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Since teens are the ideal recruits, physically and mentally, yes, they have.
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Military as a primary system of waging inter- and intra-tribal warfare changed with time. Early on, it primarily targeted those who weren't very good at hunting, because losing them would be less risky to the whole tribe than losing the best hunters. Best hunters would lead the war party, and stay in the back unless it got desperate, because losing one-two hunt leaders often meant loss of critical knowledge of hunting which in turn lead to a mass starvation event for the tribe. So you'd win a war, and then
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The French Foreign Legion existed for many many years and was a great success. If you're in a country's military... are you still an "illegal" immigrant? Being part of a peacekeeping security organization is about as Legal as it gets, is it not? Typically also a common way to gain citizenship. Bleeding for a country is probably better proof of citizenship than being born there.
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Service in the Roman Legions was a way to earn citizenship. The idea goes back a long way.
"Service Guarantees Citizenship" Would you like to know more?
-Heinlein
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"Service Guarantees Citizenship" Would you like to know more?
I can't object to people gaining citizenship this way, but that particular example makes me cringe.
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These days, three years of service will get you citizen status. They are still a force to contend with. In the first Gulf War, they did all of the ground work. One of the reasons Bush was so upset with the French for not buying hi
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The FFL aren't recruiting illegal immigrants though. You have to be in France legally. At least long enough to sign up.
Also, terms for gaining French citizenship in the FFL is a lot harder than gaining US citizenship with service in the US Military - we just don't separate out foreign recruits into a separate unit. Though these days, you get US citizenship pretty much upon graduating basic training, if you fill out and sign the paperwork.
The hard part is getting recruited.
And yes, military service in the
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Currently legal residents/immigrants who have the legal right to work in the US can join the military. I don't know if that includes DACA as they're in an unresolved legal state but are allowed to work and stay.
Re: Good! (Score:2)
Nobody has the "right" to service. You're thinking of a Heinlein novel that gives everybody the right to serve, even if they're medically incapable (in which case they're offered alternative service.)
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Right to work, not serve. I was paraphrasing the government's statement on the topic.
"To join the U.S. military, non-citizens must be living permanently and legally in the United States. Non-citizens must also have permission to work in the United States, possess an I-551 (Permanent Residence Card), have obtained a high school diploma and speak English."
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I absolutely admit to clarifying his misunderstanding of what I said. 100% admit that.
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Who said anything about illegal immigrants?
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I served with tons of foreigners ages ago.
So I guess you probably don’t know much about the military and should be the last person with opinions about how it should operate.
Duplicate article (Score:2)
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You'll have the opportunity to say this again in a few days.
Re: Duplicate article (Score:2)
deceitful ads (Score:2)
I've seen the ads in which they make the environment look very video-gamey with flying drones and lotsa screens with cool graphics everywhere... classic bait and switch as by far most recruits will be doing less fun and glamorous activities during their duty
don't get me wrong, I fully understand why they do this and it's for similar reasons the tobacco and vape industries do what they do: forthright honestly and candor would scare off the fodder required to keep these beasts fed
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And the college recruitment ads show football games, fancy gym facilities, and smiling students with their hands raised in lecture halls, all impeccably made up etc.
Some how the ads never feature the part where your spending another night in cinderblock door room up way to late reading battered used textbook you still paid $90 for. The don't show sitting in class next the chick that obviously hasn't showered in two weeks and apparently does not own any daytime clothing.
I have yet to see a corporate recruitm
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the line between making a positive marketing spin and unethical/fraudulent representation will always be fuzzy, but the main point not to be obtuse about is that in one situation you can be ordered -- under harsh penalty of military law -- to do things against your will, such as 4 years of peeling potatoes or even being sent off to die somewhere for no explanation... you are expendable govt property; in your examples, being there is always voluntary and leaving is always an option if at any time you decide
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yes... (Score:2)
Where did you think all of the FPS games came from?
Did you not note the themes? The backgrounds? Who the good/bad guys are patterned after?
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Scanned photos of real-life toy guns [doomwiki.org] and sculpted clay and Latex Demon models [doomwiki.org] perhaps?
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Most FPS games just come from a desire to make money.
Patterning them on the real world draws in a number of audiences... dorks yes, but also vets. My father used to fly simulators, he went into the Marines guaranteed placement with the air wing (in writing) but he was too tall to be a pilot, and they made him an ATC. He didn't want to play Crimson Skies, he wanted to play F-16 and shit. Same thing for other genres.
There are a few well-known outright military-invested games, no need to rehash which those are
war can be inspiring (Score:1)
I was 17 when the US invaded Iraq in 1991. For about 5 minutes, I had thoughts of joining the service. I got over it quickly, which in hindsight was the right move. I'm not the only teen gamer that will get this right in the end. There is nothing virtual about getting shipped off the a foreign desert with a gun in your hand.
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sounds light (Score:1)
Greetings Starfighter! (Score:3)
You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada!
Cohesion versus Morale (Score:1)
Cohesion: willingness to fight when the enemy starts attacking you.
Morale: belief in the cause.
Volunteer armies typically have high cohesion (that's what you're buying with all those months of training).
Conscript armies typically have moderate cohesion, usually because of less training.
But what about morale? What cause justifies fighting for a corrupt government that belittles and mocks you?
Would a high-cohesion / low morale army be equivalent to an unpaid mercenary army (the cause being *for the money*)?
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An unpaid mercenary army, IE high cohesion/low morale army is a dangerous thing. That's how Roman emperors back in the day were overthrown multiple times.
The most recent example I remember would be when Wagner started marching on Moscow over disputes of supply and payment.
Remember this? (Score:1)
Absolutely Nothing New (Score:2)
- The military has backed or directly facilitated wartime and peacetime movies since the 1930s.
- "GI Joe" was created to 1964. They've had multiple cartoons and movies since the 80s.
- "America's Army" was a series of first-person shooter video games developed and published by the U.S. Army starting in 2002.
Military sponsorship of youth-targeted entertainment is nothing new. That military recruitment is continually falling despite continually increasing investment shows that their recruitment problem is less
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Fantastic example! Uniformed soldiers, marines, sailors, and ROTC members lead the national anthem pretty much throughout American athletics (which are entertainment endeavors first and foremost) not to mention all the air force fly-bys and air shows.
And the complaint is sponsoring video game competitions in the name of "developing brains"?
I wouldn't want my children joining right now. (Score:1, Troll)
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Didn't the patron saint of your party make this speech? https://voicesofdemocracy.umd.... [umd.edu]
Just drive inflation and cost of living up (Score:1)
Child soldiers (Score:2)
Useful info from games: (Score:5, Interesting)
"Ukrainian M2 Bradley crewman credited his destroying a Russian tank to "playing video games""
https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmon... [reddit.com]
Kids ain't dumb (Score:2)
They know that pressing shift-w to sprint down a field while bullets fly around you is way, way more fun than trying to do the same on your feet.
Squid Game (Score:2)
Video Game Control (Score:1)
There’s a reason I don’t let my children play first personal military shooters, and force them to play political strategy games. Someone creates the fodder, someone creates the leaders.
What happens when recruitement... (Score:1)
continues to fall and we can't keep the military going? I imagine, that's when the draft comes back and this time around, ALL GENDERS will be compelled to register for the draft. I'm to old for this to matter, but if we can't get people to volunteer, we're going to still need people in the military.
A dog-eat-dog world (Score:2)
The current generation has been raised on the idea that dog-eat-dog is wrong: Then the government declares the goodness of invading a country and murdering people. Today's youth have entered the workforce and discovered they can't choose their employer, can't buy a house, and possibly can't afford children (depending on their definition of "afford"). There's no time in their lives for patriotism, or incentive to protect the rich.
SC2 (Score:2)
I see the Air Force sponsoring ads in my favorite esport Starcraft 2. On the one hand it's genius marketing in a game that's fundamentally about war, on the other hand it's ironic that there's only 1 American player that can currently compete with the best, the rest are European and Korean.
So ban 'em. (Score:2)
Ban any accounts targeting teens, military or otherwise.
Most service is not being a bullet sponge. (Score:3)
Most of modern war as waged by the US is not being a bullet sponge. Most American troops in WWII never saw combat.
Modern systems need technically engaged career operators and maintainers. Gamers are a natural fit.
I worked F4 Phantom comm/nav before the PC era took off and served through the modern era where our F-16 pilots gamed to kill time sitting at the Alert facility while maintainers gamed and surfed in our quarters. (We'd bring our cable modems from home so as not to touch government networks.)
Teems in the military? (Score:2)
I think I saw this movie. (Score:2)
Though, in that one, it was space aliens doing the recruiting.
Anti-Semiticism versus anti-fanaticism (Score:2)
Jewish people tend to be wealthy and have a lot of influence, especially through AIPAC. The Israeli govt's point of view is thus "louder" than the other side, and results in a distorted perspective in my opinion. It's hard to point this out without being called anti-Semitic.
A good many Jewish people are against many of Israel's bad policies such that I'm not claiming a "mass Jewish conspiracy", but merely plutocracy controlled largely by Zionists and Christians, both of whom crave the West Bank for religiou
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