UK Falls Into Recession 224
The UK has entered a recession after GDP contracted 0.3% in the fourth quarter of 2023, the Office for National Statistics said Thursday. This follows a 0.1% GDP decline in Q3. The data shows meager 0.1% growth for the full year, the worst performance since 2009 barring 2020. All main sectors declined in Q4, with manufacturing, construction and wholesale facing the biggest drops, only partially offset by upticks in rentals and hotels. The recession deals a blow to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's economic pledges ahead of local elections Thursday and the national vote expected this year, potentially widening the lead held by the opposition Labour Party in polls.
Brexit didn't help (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/1... [cnbc.com]
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https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/1... [cnbc.com]
They probably should have taken a tip from other professionals. Easiest way to avoid a recession these days is to simply re-define it away.
Re: Brexit didn't help (Score:2)
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United Kingdom joined then EEC in 1973 because of its economic situation was bad and getting worse. The soon as the United Kingdom process of leaving European Union the old economic problems returned. This is only going to get worse for United Kingdom as it isolates it self from the economics of European Union. Poverty and crimes are going to increase and the general situation is going to get a whole lot worse for the public. Its only matter of years until United Kingdom applies to re-join the European Unio
Re:Brexit did help the UK (Score:5, Informative)
Just as long we we don't need to take responsibility for our own mess - then, yeah, "it's the Europeans punishing us".
Face it - our current government (in power and in opposition) couldn't run a bath, much less a country. Now unsupported by Europe, they really can't make anything work. They've finally brought in the extra checks at the border, which slows down food delivery, so we get more expensive food, with shorter remaining shelf life. It doesn't take a genius to work out that will have a negative effect on the country. Brexit has really amplified the downsides of our government, whilst not really done anything to promote the upsides of it. It seems unlikely shuffling the politicians seats in the chamber will make much difference to that.
Had we still been in Europe at this point, some things would be better, and some would be worse. We'd be much less likely to be in a recession though.
UK has too many old people (Score:4, Insightful)
As a result even though it's *stupidly* obvious they should just swallow their pride, accept the lose of their old privileges and rejoin the EU they can't do it, because the old people keep the right wing party in charge and the right wing party wants Brexit as a useful political issue so they don't have to actually solve their voter's problems (which they can't, since their policies have only ever made things worse going all the way back the Thatcher).
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The simplest and quickest way to fix a lot of this would be for the government to build a lot of new houses, and sell them at cost to first time buyers and people in low incomes. Build on the green belt as needed, a lot of it is crap anyway. Tell the NIMBYs to sod off and removing their ability to block those developments.
The law would require those houses to be sold at cost plus inflation, and owners would be eligible to buy another one in another part of the country or to upgrade to more space as needed.
A
Re: UK has too many old people (Score:2)
Those are terrible ideas that won't do a damn bit of good. They already have away tons of homes and it just awarded some and screwed others.
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The UK is in the midst of a very large housing shortage that is causing significant problems over there https://commonslibrary.parliam... [parliament.uk] so while it wouldnt make the repercussions of Brexit go away massively increase the housing supply and making sure they werent being sold to to people who will just rent them out would do some good.
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There is no way to fix it without some people getting screwed. It's just that it's easier to do nothing and let people passively get screwed.
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There's a shitload of brownfield sites. Seems a shame to waste greenfield ones, but developers won't touch them because they are not as profitable.
Why not build council houses?
We could use more of them.
Also the problem with greenfield sites is they tend to be around but out from big cities (where houses are expensive). The jobs are in the cities, but the transport links don't exist. If you, say, wanted to expand the London green belt out by 20 miles and build a load of new homes, you'd need to also spend ma
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I am all for council houses. We should build both.
As for brownfield, there are issues. As well as being more expensive, it tends to take a lot longer as it needs to be cleaned up and checked. In time, sure, or leave them to the developers if they want to compete on location or something.
We need new cities, built for modern living. Everything within 15 minutes, good public transport links etc. All houses detached, car ports with charging, secure bike storage, Passivhaus standard etc.
It will never happen. The
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There are issues with brown field, and the government is the best placed to deal with it. It seems wasteful to tear up green sites needlessly. Plus brown field cures tend to be close to existing infrastructure.
15 minute cities are good in principle, but suffer from the jobs problem, in that it's hard to ensure there are also jobs close by in addition to everything else.
Also detached? Not everyone has the same needs. Mixed use is better IMO. Mix of houses, low and medium rise flats and mixed commercial/resid
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It is notoriously the case that lots of the green belt is not at all green. And NIMBYs routinely oppose absolutely all building plans in the UK, brown or green, modest or large. Look at the photos of the large numbers of sour old bastards opposing new flats being built in Edgware, a London suburb that is as brownfield as it gets, and is bereft of any aesthetic merit whatsoever today. And see how sympathetic this article is to them.
https://harrowonline.org/2023/... [harrowonline.org]
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The simplest and quickest way to fix a lot of this would be for the government to build a lot of new houses, and sell them at cost to first time buyers and people in low incomes. Build on the green belt as needed, a lot of it is crap anyway. Tell the NIMBYs to sod off and removing their ability to block those developments.
And who builds these new houses with what materials? Currently there is a shortage of construction workers because . . . (surprise!) many construction workers came from the EU. With the new customs controls, materials like lumber may have come from outside the UK (surprise!).
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The only change from brexit is the removal of the preferential system for EU workers.
If there is a shortage of local workers in any particular field, they can still apply for the necessary permits and bring foreign workers in. Only now they can recruit from asia, africa etc too. There's also no shortage of people from developing countries who want to go to the UK.
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Or encourage remote working, and convert a lot of the excess office space into affordable housing.
Building new housing on new greenbelt land requires transport infrastructure to also be provided, otherwise those people can't get to work. And if it's too far away from existing workplaces, it makes for people having a miserable commute while housing located near the commercial centers remains expensive.
Also punishing landlords does noone any good. Some people want or need to rent rather than buy for various r
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Work from your home in a nice new town in the country, or get on the pubic transport.
Only the government should be a landlord.
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Nice towns in the countryside generally have very poor public transport and not many local jobs. Building a lot of new infrastructure would be extremely expensive.
Better to reduce the need for travel, so people can enjoy these small country towns and spend more time in their local communities.
If there are no private landlords, then properties would just end up empty when someone is working away, or serving in the military etc. The government generally makes quite a bad landlord.
If properties get massively d
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Only the government should be a landlord.
I know England is technically still a monarchy, but is a return to feudalism really a serious idea anyone would consider? Eliminating private ownership of land and giving the ruling class total control sounds like a major step backwards.
Obviously lots of people are ok with not owning the land, and you can't expect to be free from taxes in any country with a functioning government, but it seems extreme to deprive everybody except the ruling class from any hope of ever owning anything.
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Keep telling yourself that your failures are the fault of your parents and grandparents. One day they will be gone and you will have no one left to blame.
Grow up and get a life.
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We are being punished by mainland Europe for daring to leave. They said we could not do it, but we did. Long live Nigel!
I'm knowingly feeding an AC troll, but this actually illustrates the risk posed by the sort of grievance politics of Mr. Farage.
In a perfect world, if a politician advocated for policies that ended up hurting the nation and its voters, you'd expect voters to punish them at the ballot box and vote in those with opposing viewpoints to correct the problem (in this case, lowering trade barriers with the EU, encouraging immigration of the sorts of workers the UK desperately needs). What we see with Farage and
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Personally, I see it as existential. Any country that ceases control over its borders, immigration, and culture ceases to be a country and becomes a place that some people sometimes live. Britishness could not exist without Brits, it would have been relegated to the history books, just like Austrian Empire or Ottoman Empire, if not for Brexit.
So Scotland should get out of the UK?
Scotland is losing much more self-determination to the UK, than the UK was to the EU.
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Also, the UK doesn't control its border. The Irish border is open. Some EU rules still apply to Northern Ireland.
The UK is getting more immigrants now than when it was part of the EU. How is that supposed to preserve "Britishness", whatever that is?
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There is a lot of value in self-determination and many issues that were out of UK control, such as immigration, are now back in UK control.
That fucked up the UK economy as well because all the Eastern European lorry drivers who work for peanuts couldn't drive there. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w... [nbcnews.com]
But hey less brown people, am I right?
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That fucked up the UK economy as well because all the Eastern European lorry drivers who work for peanuts couldn't drive there
Technically, not "couldn't" but "wouldn't" which is worse. With a lot of hassle and red-tape, those drivers could work in the UK again. But many of them see the new restrictions and paperwork imposed by Brexit as not worth their time; they can work elsewhere in the EU with no hassle. What would it take for them to come back: Probably undo Brexit and pay them more.
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Probably more brown people, since it's now just as easy to bring someone in from asia/africa as it is from europe, and foreign workers are still needed.
Re:Brexit did help the UK (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Brexit did help the UK (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a lot of value in self-determination and many issues that were out of UK control, such as immigration, are now back in UK control.
Let's call it for what it was: xenophobia. Brexit supporters wanted people they did not like out of the country. The problem is that they people they did not like may have been British citizens that have been in the country for decades. So Brexit was not going to remove them.
The main problem is the delusion of self-determination as misleading. Almost no country in the world today produces 100% of their goods. For example, if a consumer wants electronics, the majority of components will come from Asia. In the case of the UK, a large amount of food came from the EU. I don't know if you have lived in the UK, but it is not a surprise that they do not grow produce like oranges there in the winter.
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There is a lot of value in self-determination and many issues that were out of UK control, such as immigration, are now back in UK control.
Let's call it for what it was: xenophobia.
You can present any crazy argument you want, but claiming racism at the core of something you disagree with will get everything else you say dismissed by me.
Re:Brexit did help the UK (Score:4, Funny)
FAFO
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Re: Brexit did help the UK (Score:2)
I myself had a very good brexit this morning.
Re:Brexit didn't help (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, because recessions never happen in EU.
Please turn on your brain. No one said the EU doesn't have recessions. The UK used to outperform most of the EU27, until Brexit. The point here is that were it not for Brexit the UK wouldn't be in recession now.
In reality, in Q4 2023 Germany had 0.3% recession too
That's not how recessions are defined. The economy shrinking 1 quarter doesn't make "a recession". The economy shrinking several quarters in a row makes a recession. It is anticipated Germany may drop into recession in 2 months.
But hey I congratulate you for comparing the UK to one of the most underperforming EU countries pat yourself on the back and collect your participation award. Next time you do some whataboutism, maybe make it ... positive.
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Japan too (Score:2, Offtopic)
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> Go find a kid in his 20s trying to find a job that will pay a decent wage. They are all over the place: multiple roommates, still living at home, etc.
Was no different for me in my 20s a generation or two ago. No sympathy whatsoever. And I've suffered multiple recessions and a pandemic. The 70s and into the 80s was a lost decade financially. Not sure when you think this gold age of easy good paying jobs for young adults happened.
Get a skill and get good at it, build demand for your work. Then you will h
Re:Japan too (Score:4, Informative)
Not sure when you think this gold age of easy good paying jobs for young adults happened.
At least for the US, that would have been the late 40s and 50s. After war devastated literally every other industrial center of the world, half a million would-have-been laborers died, and 10% of the population were explicitly and formally treated as second class citizens.
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I think a review of post-WWII history will show that Britain spent decades in a spiraling decline. It's empire and the kind of locked in economy that that vast empire had created began to disintegrate. The huge debts accrued between the late 1930s and 1945, much of it owed to the United States in one form or another, left it the sick man of Europe. It probably would have entered the Customs Union earlier, but de Gaulle had an absolute hatred of the British and did everything he could do to block it. A seemi
Re: Japan too (Score:2)
My condolences.
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That's one way to see it. The other is that, while everything changed things stayed the same.
It's amazing how much energy is spent finding differences. In 20 to 30 years the current 20 somethings will be the older generation telling the next they have it easy while the next will be complaining how difficult it is.
I was under the impression that as the percentage of educated people increased in a population, the ignorance would diminish and we would stop repeating the mistakes of the past. Unfortunately I w
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Was no different for me in my 20s a generation or two ago. No sympathy whatsoever. And I've suffered multiple recessions and a pandemic. The 70s and into the 80s was a lost decade financially. Not sure when you think this gold age of easy good paying jobs for young adults happened.
Get a skill and get good at it, build demand for your work. Then you will have no trouble finding work and getting paid. No one is going to hand you anything, its on you to dig deep and figure it out. You are not entitled to anything in this world, you have to earn it.
Before you get off your high horse, take your 1970s wages and run them through the inflation calculator. What did a semester at college cost in 1980 and what was your rent/mortgage in 1980? Compare your inflation adjusted numbers and get back to me.
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Was no different for me in my 20s a generation or two ago. No sympathy whatsoever. And I've suffered multiple recessions and a pandemic. The 70s and into the 80s was a lost decade financially. Not sure when you think this gold age of easy good paying jobs for young adults happened.
Get a skill and get good at it, build demand for your work. Then you will have no trouble finding work and getting paid. No one is going to hand you anything, its on you to dig deep and figure it out. You are not entitled to anything in this world, you have to earn it.
Before you get off your high horse, take your 1970s wages and run them through the inflation calculator. What did a semester at college cost in 1980 and what was your rent/mortgage in 1980? Compare your inflation adjusted numbers and get back to me.
There is a certain logic to his statement. I had figured out by Junior high school that the way for me to get ahead was to develop a good skillset, and not stop developing it. Maybe my poverty level childhood living helped me decide that I wanted no part of that. Maybe I wanted to prove everyone that thought I was worthless helped.
But I did it all myself, and definitely I knew no one would help, and that no one owed me a thing.
But even back in the 1970's Minimum wage wasn't a living wage. (when I firs
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But even back in the 1970's Minimum wage wasn't a living wage. (when I first entered the workforce it was $2.25 an hour)
The minimum wage is 3x higher than it was back in the 70s. Compare that to median monthly rents which are 5-6x higher and average annual tuition is 15-20x higher.
This disregards regional variation and all sorts of other nuances but it certainly paints the picture that working your way through college and develop that in-demand skillset is harder now than it was 50 years ago.
Personally my view is that the solution lies in making housing and education more affordable rather than raising wages until every
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Fake CPI and all that. The Shadowstats guy is a good place to start if you're looking to do a numerical analysis. I toyed around with it in 2022 for a few weekends. We are being plagued with rampant inflation, no real jobs ever being added, and interest rates through the roof.
Literally none of that has to do with a recession. Please learn to use terms correctly.
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It will be the standard Conservative talking point; that the recession doesn't really exist, it's all these evil economists, many of them civil servants, trying to get Labour elected. Labour has now been out of power so long that it can't be directly blamed for the woeful state of the British economy, so the next strategy is to deny there is a problem at all.
All the Brexit "dividends" that were promised have proven phantoms. Creating any kind of friction with your primary trading partner is utter stupidity.
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Why do people in their 20s think they are entitled to buy the most expensive thing they are ever going to buy in their entire lives RIGHT NOW? The vast majority of people that own homes, did not buy in their 20s. Getting all salty because you have unreasonable expectations isn't a problem for society or economy - it's a problem you created for yourself based upon nothing at all except desire, marketing, and a sense of entitlement.
I didn't buy a home until I was in my early 30s, and I was early among my pe
Provisional GDP (Score:3)
For what it's worth, growth figures are usually fairly provisional when first announced, and often get revised later when more hard numbers are available.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy... [ons.gov.uk]
This news is based on the first quarterly estimate, which as you can see from the handy chart is not the final estimate.
Taxes (Score:4, Insightful)
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that are already at breaking point
Breaking point was several years ago. It's turning into an outright dystopia now with utilities failing to supply gas to towns, sewage treatment plants just discharging untreated waste directly into waterways, electrical companies tearing up roads and not fixing them.
But hey we don't need to worry. Everything will be better once we deport a few people to beautiful safe Rwanda. /s
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"If our poll numbers don't go up, we will have to cut your public services."
It's literally "the beatings will continue until morale improves."
Re: Taxes (Score:2)
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Welfare benefits generate tons of economic activity. It's money injected straight into the economy spent on goods and services (either directly or by the poor themselves) that wouldnt be there otherwise.
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As if the people paying the taxes that funded welfare would not have spent that money if they had it.
It's money that is much more likely to be put into savings or invested than directly injected into the economy as it is when it's funneled to the poor who are by definition money deficient.
American companies are sitting on piles of money https://www.linkedin.com/pulse... [linkedin.com] and the banks have plenty of money to lend them. They're not going to spend this money on creating jobs though unless there's demand for the goods or services they will produce and that only happens through consumers spending money which is
Re:Taxes (Score:5, Informative)
You can't tax your way into prosperity.
You can't tax cut your way into prosperity. Services and infrastructure are required for a functioning society, and implementing them properly contributes to economic growth.
Also you're wrong about economic activity. There are no government services in the infrastructure business that don't depend on or create significant growth in the supply side. If you build a road you don't just pay a government employee, you also pay CAT for equipment, your local refinery for bitumen, your local quarry for fill, etc.
And that's before you consider the economic impact of people being able to travel on the road.
Re:Taxes (Score:4, Funny)
Welfare benefits are one of the most efficient forms of generating economic activity.
And one of the very worst forms of generating economic activity? Tax cuts.
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Taxes improving the economy is possible because certain market failures, some of them endemic, are also bad for the economy, so taxing them turns out to improve the economy overall. In some cases, such taxes can even improve the real economy even if the proceeds
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Most government services do not create productivity - that is to say - the services do not generate more economic activity than they consume
Yes, we all know that building highway networks, freight systems, airports, etc. never have any economic return, do they?
What a crock of shit.
Re:Taxes (Score:5, Informative)
There is no such English as "drive economic stimulus". You can't just put three words together and pretend it makes sense, unless you're speaking German.
Tax cuts DO act as an economic stimulus, which may be what you were trying to say, comrade. However, they are a very week stimulus (at least in the short and medium terms, which are all that we can measure with any degree of certainty), particularly when the tax cuts are focused on the most wealthy.
Government spending is usually a direct economic boost, although in the long term, debt-based spending contributes directly to inflationary pressure.
At any rate, pretty much everything you wrote is one of: (i) a lie, (ii) propaganda, or (iii) just plain wrong. And I thought it was worthwhile pointing that out, just in case someone is reading here with even a glimmer of hope of learning something.
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(tax (adjective) cuts (noun)) (subject)
drive (verb, transitive, third person plural conjugation)
(economic (adjective) stimulus (noun)) (noun phrase, direct object)
It's definitely English. "You drive me crazy," is another example of using drive in the same way. In these cases, it means the subject causes the object in some way, probably with a connotation of leading or steering. This sentence might be expanded as, "Lowering taxes leads to s
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Tax cuts drive economic stimulus.
Then the key to prosperity is eliminating all taxes.
Turns out... (Score:4, Informative)
Turns out suddenly leaving a massive free trade union that your economy has grown entangled with over the course of decades of integration cant be done without noticeable economic repercussions. Who would have thought!? Apparently not the pro Brexit folks as the separation was supposed to be all upsides.
UK performance is comparable to EU (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well, that means brexit is roughly equivalent to suddenly losing access to cheap oil and gas and hence killing off a large chunk of the industry.
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Not really. The UK imported most of their natural gas from Norway, Germany imported half of their natural gas from Russia. So when gas delivery literally stopped overnight, Germany had to scramble to replace that gas and to build the LNG infrastructure in record time. That was very expensive and lead to a heavy hit to the German industry which essentially stopped manufacturing most energy intensive products like aluminium and certain chemicals.
So no, that comparison would not only make sense if UK was not a
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Russian sanctions happened to both the UK and Germany, while Brexit only happened to the UK. Therefore, concluding that effects of Brexit on UK are the same as costs of Russian sanctions on Germany is unsupported by existing premises.
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Slightly better link; your first link are forecasts, here are the actual numbers published yesterday https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/... [europa.eu] The new numbers do not affect your conclusions
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The other thing to keep in mind about the UK is that the disparity between the rich and the poor is greater than many European countries. When Germany's economy is slow, the least well off don't suffer as much as they do in the UK. Meanwhile, in the UK the wealthy barely notice it, because everything is set up to make sure they aren't the losers.
We will have an election in the UK this year. The choice is between more cuts to public services and some tax cuts that will doubtless mostly benefit high earners,
Re:UK performance is comparable to EU (Score:5, Informative)
Germany started from a better position though. The UK crashed its economy and is suffering from brexit.
Interestingly Japanese media was lamenting today that Germany just overtook Japan to become the world's 3rd largest economy.
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Just because the UK is doing better than Germany doesn't mean it wouldn't have done even better if it stayed in the EU.
Most likely, the UK staying in the EU would have benefited both the EU (including Germany) and the UK.
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I don't think framing of Brexit solely in terms of better or worse for the GDP is objective. Many necessary policies, from sanctions on Russia to the universal healthcare are both detrimental to the GDP and are also absolutely the right thing to do. Framing every problem in terms of money is shortsighted.
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I agree. Brexit could be a good thing despite being bad for the UK's economy.
However, Brexit was sold, at least in part, as a way to improve the economy of the UK. Clearly it didn't happen. First step is to admit that. It was one of the main argument for Brexit.
And this is despite the fact that the UK, like most of the richer countries inside the EU, was a net contributor to the EU budget. Just like rich regions of the UK tend to subsidize poorer regions.
The other main argument was immigration. Since Brexit
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What about Hunter's emails and Hillary's laptop?
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Clearly you didn't read the report, as he also states a complete lack of evidence of willful wrongdoing, which is required by the statute to charge any crimes; as well as a complete inability to disprove innocent explanation which speaks to the standard of "reasonable doubt."
It's literally right there in the executive summary and doesn't require any criminal legal knowledge beyond what is learned in grade school to understand. So congratulations on being a partisan hack lemming, repeating the agitprop nons
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I wouldn't compare anything to Germany. It is a massive underperformer both in terms of impact from the gas crisis as well as recovery from COVID. It's like celebrating coming second last in a race.
The stupid part is just how much of this was voluntary. If it weren't for Brexit the UK wouldn't be in recession now. Historically the UK has outperformed Germany who have historically outperformed much of the EU.
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If you look at EU numbers [europa.eu], it is slightly worse. When you directly compare to Germany [reuters.com], UK is doing better. In both cases, differences are within measurement uncertainty and will like get further revised down in all cases.
It may become quite pointless to fall for the American comparison game at a certain point. No one served three plates of shit is gonna argue for the best tasting one.
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That facts are also that Goldman Sachs have traced these problems back to Brexit issues as opposed to Germany which is having issues for its own reasons.
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Why, because the sourced facts they present don't back up your fever dream?
How about giving a reason, instead of just adding noise?
Take a breath (Score:3)
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My God people calm down. It is the economy, stupid.
Exactly. Reading some of the comments makes you wonder if the posters ever took a course on economics. So the UK managed to meet the technical description of a recession. Big whoop. Theoretically they could cross back out of it next month.
The real scary bit is all the knee jerk reactions by self appointed experts. If you find stories like this triggering, you really need to unplug and take a long quiet walk.
Bottom line: Nothing you post here will change the world.
Do stupid things... (Score:2)
... win stupid prizes. How is Brexit working out for you in the UK?
I do realize that there are people that voted against brexit and also against the morons and clowns that the UK has had as "leaders" the last few years. These people are really getting screwed due to no fault of their own. The rest deserves this and dit it to themselves.
Well, no sh*t, Sherlock. (Score:3)
The UK has been in an economic nose-dive ever since Brexit. The irony is, even the allegedly bad things for which they left the EU got even worse after leaving and would've been much better hadn't they fallen for populist bullsh*t and left.
You'd somehow expect that they some time in the future could recover and regroup, but right now it's just one bad thing after another. I expect the decline of UK GDP to continue for the foreseeable time. It's a shame and despite being a pro-EU "continental Europeanist" I see no point in gloating. It's just one giant epic sh*t-show. And by and large Thatcher is to blame and her totally mismanaged transition away from heavy industry and her perpetual british EU bickering that sadly became a go-to british fad to explain all their problems and prevent them from actually solving them.
Re:Well, no sh*t, Sherlock. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Right, noting that the UK meets the technical requirements to be said to be in a recession is "libtard propaganda". Fuck off.
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Faked stats? What on earth are you basing that on?
Meanwhile, nothing happening in Europe changes the fact that the UK has entered a recession.
Just the fact that you're mentioning George Soros in this completely unrelated context shows how broken your brain is. Are you maybe suffering trauma because someone molested you as a child in the basement of a pizza place?
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Oh, I see.
When the unbelievably wealthy in YOUR tribe buy up all the local TV and radio stations (Sinclair Broadcasting, FOX), it's all fine. But when an unbelievably wealthy guy from the OTHER tribe does it, it's time to get all riled up and start asking questions.
Why are you talking about George Soros and radio stations in the US, in the comments section about a recession in the United Kingdom? You seem a bit deranged.
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Ronald Reagan would get called a woke libtard if you compared his policies to the current day party.
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Ronald Reagan would get called a woke libtard if you compared his policies to the current day party.
The problem with the far right is they are in the process of calling everyone a woke libtard today. Especially Nicky Haley, Nicky Haley, Nicky Haley.
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Ronald Reagan would get called a woke libtard if you compared his policies to the current day party.
And Obama would not be electable today because it would be too easy to smear him as right-wing white supremacist.
Re: (Score:3)
Case in point: in 1983 Reagan signed an immigration bill that gave wide amnesty to undocumented people / illegals depending on the loaded term you want to use.
Today he would be labeled a RINO and censured, and at the very least primaried; if not full-on impeached by his own party.
Re: (Score:3)
Let's play a game. I'll post a quote and you tell me who said it.
later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will."
Was that:
1) Gavin Newsom
2) Ronald Reagan
You want another example?