California Introduces 'Right To Disconnect' Bill That Would Allow Employees To Possibly Relax 91
An anonymous reader shares a report: Burnout, quiet quitting, strikes -- the news (and likely your schedule) is filled with markers that workers are overwhelmed and too much is expected of them. There's little regulation in the United States to prevent employers from forcing workers to be at their desks or on call at all hours, but that might soon change. California State Assemblyman Matt Haney has introduced AB 2751, a "right to disconnect" proposition, The San Francisco Standard reports. The bill is in its early stages but, if passed, would make every California employer lay out exactly what a person's hours are and ensure they aren't required to respond to work-related communications while off the clock. Time periods in which a salaried employee might have to work longer hours would need to be laid out in their contract. Exceptions would exist for emergencies.
The Department of Labor would monitor adherence and fine companies a minimum of $100 for wrongdoing -- whether that's forcing employees to be on Zoom, their inbox, answering texts or monitoring Slack when they're not getting paid to do so. "I do think it's fitting that California, which has created many of these technologies, is also the state that introduces how we make it sustainable and update our protections for the times we live in and the world we've created," Haney told The Standard.
The Department of Labor would monitor adherence and fine companies a minimum of $100 for wrongdoing -- whether that's forcing employees to be on Zoom, their inbox, answering texts or monitoring Slack when they're not getting paid to do so. "I do think it's fitting that California, which has created many of these technologies, is also the state that introduces how we make it sustainable and update our protections for the times we live in and the world we've created," Haney told The Standard.
Implications from French experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not against this, but the folks I work with where this is already the law, e.g., France, basically carry 2 smart phones with them - one for work use, and one for home. At 17:00, the work phone gets turned off until the next work day. The company (with a large IT team) could not configure current smart phones to split work accounts/apps off from personal ones and be compliant with the law, i.e., never alert for work items after hours, so this was what they ended up with.
Re:Implications from French experience (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a good thing, though. You shouldn't mix your work and personal devices.
Re:Implications from French experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Having to carry two devices is a sub-optimal solution, though.
Phones already have the concept of "do not disturb", and times when that is automatically active. They just need to extend that to each app (opt-in).
Re:Implications from French experience (Score:5, Insightful)
However, separating your work from your personal onto two separate devices is very good for security and for privacy. IMO, it's worth it.
I'm retired now, but when I was working I had a simple fix for not mixing work and personal stuff on my phone: I didn't give my employer my cell phone number (I had a landline... they got that) and I didn't set up any work-related stuff on my phone.
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However, separating your work from your personal onto two separate devices is very good for security and for privacy. IMO, it's worth it.
You don't need two devices for that. Several modern smartphones have the two compartmentalised to the point where you either can't at all traverse between work / personal profiles, or need to jump through serious hoops to do so.
I only have one phone, a work provided one. The risk to my personal profile is that work can remotely lock / disable the phone. That's it. They can't even run the find my phone function. When they push an SSL cert it only applies to the instance of the apps run under the work profile
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However, separating your work from your personal onto two separate devices is very good for security and for privacy. IMO, it's worth it.
Some employers give you a separate phone so that they can monitor your calling and Internet. Same reason they put keyloggers and anti-virus and remote administration and VPN on the laptop they give you.
Besides not having your employer involved in your personal phone, having a company device provides you with proof that you're not stealing secrets. Because if you did, it would be through that device, which is bugged six ways to Sunday to try to prevent it.
Is carrying a company phone really THAT big a hassle?
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maybe for you - ive been carrying 2 phones for years and have absolutely zero issues with it.
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My work phone had the ability to be remotely wiped by corporate. Would you like that feature on your personal phone?
Re: Implications from French experience (Score:2)
iPhones have work and personal containers. You can set up your email to be wiped while the rest of your phone remains intact.
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As do Android phones, you can have multiple users setup and switch between them.
Aaron Z
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As the other poster suggested, there is a security reason for doing so. In our case, if there is a Right to Know request and you are using your personal machine or personal phone for business activities, that gets confiscated as part of the investigation. When it will get returned is unknown.
Thus, use your company issued phone (and machine) only for business use and your personal phone and machine for personal use. This also keeps you
Re:Implications from French experience (Score:5, Informative)
Having to carry two devices is a sub-optimal solution, though.
Phones already have the concept of "do not disturb", and times when that is automatically active. They just need to extend that to each app (opt-in).
Android supports this, has for several years.
The way it works is that you have a "personal profile" (basically, the default) and a "work profile". The company can dictate what gets installed in the work profile, can wipe it remotely, etc., and you can pause the work profile, which disables all of the work apps from running, or maybe just from sending notifications, not sure -- but when the work profile is logged out, you don't get any notifications. The company's systems cannot see any apps or activity from the personal profile. You can also control location separately for work and personal profile, so you can keep location services on for personal use, while preventing work apps from getting your location.
I'm not sure if there's a setting to automatically pause and unpause the work profile based on time of day, etc., but it's pretty easy to do it yourself.
The main downside of this scheme is that apps that you need in both work and personal profiles -- say, gmail -- are on your home screen twice, once normal and once with a little orange suitcase icon for the work version.
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This relies on your company's IT department to set it up properly. My company has it sort of half-implemented, and we have a work profile on Android with Microsoft Authenticator installed, but not Outlook or Teams, so you still have to use Outlook and Teams in your personal profile. You get all of the hassle with none of the benefits, I guess.
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That's not a question of properly, that's a question of outright incompetence. Honestly you would actively have to put effort into setting it up that poorly. Proper MDM is trivial to setup.
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This relies on your company's IT department to set it up properly
Which is super easy. But, also, it actually doesn't require the IT department to set it up. You can set up a work profile without your company even knowing you've done so.
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There is a setting to schedule when Work Profile apps can notify you and run. It's under Digital Wellbeing in the settings.
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There is a setting to schedule when Work Profile apps can notify you and run. It's under Digital Wellbeing in the settings.
Thanks, makes sense. I don't use work profile myself because I don't like the duplicated apps on my home screen, and I have no problem ignoring work stuff while I'm not working.
Re:Implications from French experience (Score:5, Insightful)
Having to carry two devices is a sub-optimal solution, though.
I disagree. I consider it necessary. I have zero desire or willingness to have my personal phone and everything on it subjected to a legal discovery process, which is unlikely but certainly possible for the work phone.
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I disagree. I consider it necessary. I have zero desire or willingness to have my personal phone and everything on it subjected to a legal discovery process, which is unlikely but certainly possible for the work phone.
I've been through this process a few times and it is irrelevant. If there is suspicion of outside communication your private phone can be subject to a legal discovery as well. If there's no suspicion then unless your employer is incompetent then your phone won't ever be taken off you in the first place. The whole point about MDM is to control communication channels and data security. In 3 of the times I've had discover / legal hold put on me, the phone was never required. By the fact that only official comm
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Having to carry two devices is a sub-optimal solution, though.
Phones already have the concept of "do not disturb", and times when that is automatically active. They just need to extend that to each app (opt-in).
The iPhone has a feature called "Focus", which is selective do-not-disturb. You can create a Contacts group (or even an ad-hoc unnamed set) and put the whitelist for incoming calls/texts there. You can additionally specify apps (but it's the whole app, since this mechanism can't e.g. peer inside Zoom to see who is calling you or what account you're logged into).
You can schedule Foci (?) to activate during certain hours, but I just use the iPhone Control Center pulldown (swipe) to toggle them on and off manu
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Thank you for that - I am aware that "focus" exists, but hadn't looked into the particulars (I've only been using the general "do not disturb" at night).
That might be useful to me.
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I read my employers rules on having work related software (any software, incl. email) on a personal mobile device, and the security policy stated essentially that they would not ever wipe my device (e.g., when lost) without my permission - unless they would decide otherwise. Not kidding! Excellent, you just told me to never let you on my personal devices. And since they won't pay for a work phone, I have no problems. I am pretty much the only one I know who does not have email, Teams etc. on their personal
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False.
MDM allows employer to push privacy invasive policies at any time without employee knowledge or consent
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oh, MDM doesn't do for example location tracking?
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he was wrong though and I gave one example of a dozen; he was just a shill for product that he made a living with and couldn't abide someone trash talking it with the truth.
Apple could make a start (Score:2)
I'm a non-US iPhone user and I just want the option to schedule when my work email account is active or not.
I doubt it's a feature that has ever entered their minds.
However in the rest of the world, we want to be able to have work-related functions automatically disabled out of office hours.
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You don't really want your work email to be inactive, I imagine... you just want no notifications from your local app.
But yeah, that would be a nice feature.
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I'm a non-US iPhone user and I just want the option to schedule when my work email account is active or not.
I doubt it's a feature that has ever entered their minds.
However in the rest of the world, we want to be able to have work-related functions automatically disabled out of office hours.
Or... just ignore email/messages until you want to deal with them. That's what I've always done. Works with any device.
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I'm contracting / consulting with an outfit in India that is registered in Dubai, when sending a mail outside (their) working hours using Outlook I get a reminder the mail might only be read the next day
They also like to use Teams and have a habit of sending messages at a for me unholy early hour, I just ignore them till it's my (EU summer time = IST -3.5h) time.
All understand the implications of people being in different time zones and it works fine.
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I'm a non-US iPhone user and I just want the option to schedule when my work email account is active or not.
Just... don't check it? Keep the email app closed? I'm not sure what you mean by 'active'.
Re: Apple could make a start (Score:1)
Go to Settings. Scroll down and tap on Notifications. Select Scheduled Summary. Under the Schedule section, tap the plus icon to add a new schedule.
This has been possible for several years now.
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Do you use the iOS focus modes? I think that's exactly what you want.
I have a "Personal" focus mode that activates on a schedule. It suppresses notifications from my work-related apps and has a customized home screen that doesn't include them. If your mail/calendar clients support it, it has settings that allow you to filter specific inboxes or calendars when the focus mode is active.
just pay OT and make the salaried min $150K+ (Score:2)
just pay OT and make the salaried min be like $150K+
"laid out in their contract" (Score:2)
Well, it's either a contract outlining the full separation agreement amongst the other stuff OR it's at will meaning no notice either way.
OT (Score:3)
As the poster said: Just fucking enforce the overtime payment laws.
There is a reason why contractors usually bill by the hour, or by the workday. Its to ensure that if its a nothingburger, they still get paid for the commut and time allocation.
SMS/email to check if somebody can cover that Larry has taken sick leave? Bill an hour overtime Zoom call outside of work hours? Bill two.
Communication after 18 in the evening? Bill it for overtime, and don't process it until the next work day.
Once t hat is enforced,
should be minimum of $100/hr Rounded up paid to th (Score:2)
should be minimum of $100/hr Rounded up paid to the worker
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California wealth and exit tax. (Score:2)
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"Sustainable" (Score:2)
Just once I'd like to see a politician make a statement that doesn't work in all their trendy political buzzwords - both on the left and on the right.
I've never needed a law for this (Score:5, Interesting)
I just disconnect.
"Sorry, I wasn't able to get back to you right away."
It's usually that easy. And if it's not, you probably don't want to work for that company anyway.
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I worked for a place where I was on call about a week or two out of a month. It was pretty rare to get called out, but when you did, IT SUCKED. It might mean a three hour trip, one way, in the middle of the night. That's toward the top of my list why I no longer work there.
And even if you weren't on call, you might still have to deal with things locally or be available to help out the person on call.
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Yep, it happens. I've been on call plenty myself. But usually, you know this is a thing when you take the job. Some jobs have legitimate reasons to require you to be on call.
As long as it's defined, and understood by all parties, and you're willing and able to walk away when you need to, it doesn't seem like a problem to me.
If you've just got a bad boss, all bets are off, whether there's a law or not.
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I worked for a place where I was on call about a week or two out of a month. It was pretty rare to get called out, but when you did, IT SUCKED. It might mean a three hour trip, one way, in the middle of the night.
Yeah being on call definitely limits what you can do. No partying, no trips out of town, middle of the night wake ups, but when I did that I was well paid for it - 2 hours of pay for every 8 hours on call, plus OT for any time spent on actual calls. Basically double pay for on-call weeks. And it was pensionable income. Now that I'm retired I don't miss it, but I appreciate having done it. Ain't no way in hell I would do that for free though.
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Yeah being on call definitely limits what you can do.
That's why "on call" time is compensable. This is already covered by the FLSA. California doesn't need a state law for this.
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I worked for a place like that. The fact that a couple of times a year I was massively inconvenienced bumped my salary up massively. But if you're not being paid for your time, don't do the time.
exempt (Score:3, Insightful)
Professional salaried employees in the US -- the kind of people who read Slashdot -- are legally "exempt", so this measure will not do anything for them. You are paid to participate in the company without restriction, which is why you work whatever and how ever many hours are needed to get the job done. As opposed to non-exempt employees, who work 40 hours on a particular schedule. If you are reading this post, and you're not an independent contractor billing by the hour on your own schedule, rest assured that nothing will change. You will still be working 60 hours a week and effectively on-call 7x24. Nothing is changing.
If you don't fall into that category, then this bill doesn't give you any more rights or anything that you didn't already legally have. It' s a does-nothing law intended to make it seem like your lawmakers are "doing something" for you.
It actually looks to me like if you are a non-exempt employee supposedly benefiting from this, now your employer is legally entitled to require you to carry a phone and be on-call (whereas they cannot now), because they can say you need to be reachable for so-called "emergencies".
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> you work whatever and how ever many hours are needed to get the job done
In the olden days maybe.
Today it means you could work 120 hours a week and not finish your "other duties as assigned" so you work 40+ guaranteed and however many else you're wiling to give before you stand up for yourself.
The smaller the business the less this attitude exists.
Chronic understaffing gives better executive bonuses.
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so fucking stand up for yourself, pussy.
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In order to work for a good employer (and last any length of time), you have to be a good employee.
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Back when I worked for big companies, they tried to all kinds of policies to get folks to work >40 hours w
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Maybe you haven't noticed but right now in tech it's a slaughter. Getting a replacement job is no longer a finger snap. There 200k tech layoffs in 2022 and 250k tech layoffs in 2023.
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Tell that to my job-hunting gmail and LinkedIn inboxes, both of which are stuffed with messages from recruiters trying to lure me away from the job I'm happy at to other companies. Or tell it to our own recruiter who struggles to find candidates who are even worth interviewing, much less hiring.
There've been some large layoffs at the big names, sure. But this is not the Dotcom crash. If you're not a screw-up, you'll still have minimal difficulty finding a new position if you're laid off.
I'm still seeing a lot of jobs, but it all depends (Score:2)
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Depends on what you do. If you have the right experience and knowledge finding a new role is not very hard. Good people are still in very short supply especially at a high technical level.
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Sure the top 1% can always get something. That is not the tech job market which is what I was replying to.
And sometimes not even being the 1% will get you something such as during the dot com era.
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Strange, I'm neither an independent contractor nor exempt and yet I'm on Slashdot.
I work 35 hours/week. Anything else is overtime is completely optional and I'm the only one that gets to decide if it gets done or not. My boss can ask nicely and that's the limit of what he can do about it.
I'm paid hourly, not salaried. In IT.
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Are you sure? Do you get paid time-and-a-half for overtime? If not, you are probably salaried. I worked for years getting paid straight time for any hours over 40 per week, and I was technically on salary.
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If my employer requires me to work more than 40 hours a week, I would find a new job.
I mean, fuck that. Seriously.
Re:exempt (Score:4, Insightful)
If they need me extra hours, no sweat but I get paid for every hour I work. It makes them think twice about if they really need me or not before they call.
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Re: exempt (Score:1)
And as an exempt employee neither can your employer force you to a fixed hourly schedule if they want you to work weekends and on calls. Thatâ(TM)s why I love being exempt, if I work an hour late to get something finished, rather than interrupting my workflow because Iâ(TM)m legally obligated to, then I get to walk in an hour later some other time.
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And as an exempt employee neither can your employer force you to a fixed hourly schedule if they want you to work weekends and on calls.
They can certainly require any schedule, plus any additional hours at any time, if you are exempt.
The legal thing the employER is "exempt" from with such designated employees is paying overtime or restrictions on hours and schedules. (For non-exempt employees, there are legal protections about hours and payment.)
Your confusion is that you are citing what seems to be your company policy, not the law. It might also be something in your employment contract. The one you may have signed, or the one you otherwi
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Here is the thing, if you work the required 40h, that cannot be the cause for firing you. They cannot 'fire you at anytime' - there is plenty of legislation in the US and the EU it is even worse that if you just pull up a bs reason to fire someone, you are almost guaranteed to have to pay out 3-6 months of salary (legally required in the EU) or 1-5 years worth of salary in the US (virtually all these cases are done pro-bono and settling is easier than trying to argue in court for months).
I have had to fire
Just use the ultimate disconnect (Score:3)
If you don't like the job requirements just quit. It's easy.
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fallacy.
HR in companies band together to make up a unfified mythos so people can be exploited wherever they work, and make effectively a blacklist for people fired who did not conform to their attempts at a de facto slavery
Start right now (Score:2)
I'm fortunate enough to work at a job that I love. Sure, there are phases when it isn't so great, and phases when I would give up my first-born to continue working on my projects, but on balance it's solidly in the plus column. Of the many things I could do in life to earn my keep, what I do now is very, very close to the top of what I'd like to be doing. That I get frelling paid to do it is amazing. And thus, there isn't a real limit to the number of hours I'm happily spending on my work.
What I don't g
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Is there nothing productive that you enjoy doing so much that you would do it for free?
Yes. There is. I maintain a number of open-source software packages [skoll.ca].
But I do that for me, not for an employer. The minute someone else gets to dictate what work I should do, you'd better believe I'll only do it in return for payment.
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You're missing the point: if you're good enough at something, and enjoy doing it, you should be able to find a way to earn money doing just that thing.
Ok so what if... (Score:1)
Re: Ok so what if... (Score:1)
Thats not how it goes at all. The one that didn't turn off gets more after hours calls and more work without extra pay or promotions.
Promotions in a US company in 2024, you must be out of your damn mind.
Copying Australia (Score:1)
Coincidentally, or not, the same 'right to disconnect' was passed by national parliament in Australia in February and will come into effect later in the year.
Quote
The new Right to Disconnect, outlined in new provisions in the Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) grants employees an enforceable workplace right to refuse to monitor, read or respond to contact (or attempted contact) from an employer or a third party outside of their ordinary working hours, unless such refusal is unreasonable.
What constitutes ‘contac
Managers will still abuse it (Score:2)
Hello Peter, what's happening? (Score:2)
Hello Peter, what's happening? Ummm, I'm gonna need you to go ahead come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around 9 that would be great, mmmk... oh oh! and I almost forgot ahh, I'm also gonna need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday too, kay. We ahh lost some people this week and ah, we sorta need to play catch up.