Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
United States

Europeans 'Less Hard-Working' Than Americans, Says Norway Oil Fund Boss (ft.com) 223

Europe is less hard-working, less ambitious, more regulated and more risk-averse than the US, according to the boss of Norway's giant oil fund, with the gap between the two continents only getting wider. FT: Nicolai Tangen, chief executive of the $1.6tn fund, told the Financial Times it was "worrisome" that American companies were outpacing their European rivals [non paywalled link] on innovation and technology, leading to vast outperformance of US shares in the past decade. "There's a mindset issue in terms of acceptance of mistakes and risks. You go bust in America, you get another chance. In Europe, you're dead," he said, adding that there was also a difference in "the general level of ambition. We are not very ambitious. I should be careful about talking about work-life balance, but the Americans just work harder."

His views are significant as the oil fund is one of the largest single investors in the world, owning on average 1.5 per cent of every listed company globally and 2.5 per cent of every European equity. Its US holdings have increased in the past decade while its European ones have declined. US shares account for almost half of all its equities compared with 32 per cent in 2013. The leading European country -- the UK -- represented 15 per cent of its equity portfolio a decade ago but just 6 per cent last year.

Europeans 'Less Hard-Working' Than Americans, Says Norway Oil Fund Boss

Comments Filter:
  • Less "Worked-Hard" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EmagGeek ( 574360 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:03PM (#64427416) Journal

    There, FIFY.

    It's illegal in Europe to work people like people are worked in the US. That's why Americans are worked so much harder than Europeans.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:10PM (#64427446)

      Indeed. Forcing somebody to work more than 10h/day and 50h/week counts as assault and can land you in prison in some countries in Europe.

      He is right that the gap between the US and Europe gets larger though: The US is losing its middle-class and everybody is getting poorer and poorer (excluding the rich). The same does not happen in Europe.

      • by sfcat ( 872532 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:28PM (#64427526)
        The numbers do not support your assertions. The middle class in the US just doesn't live in cities anymore. And their makeup isn't what their cohort would have predicted 30 years ago. Trying to send everyone to college was a mistake. It created an oversupply of office workers and an under supply of blue collar workers. The problem is that when you miss on trying to get an office job, you don't fall into blue collar work. You fall into retail/service work that pays little more than minimum wage. So what is happening is that some lower class people took the place of middle class people because they have a trade and the college grads don't. This is why top down economic policies don't work well most of the time. Pushing things out of balance usually doesn't work because there is a reason the balance was where it was. Also, the average American makes 75% more than the average European. 30 years ago the average American and average European made the same amount. You really think that doesn't impact your quality of life? Seriously, I have to get used to a (very noticeable) lower standard of living when I go on vacation in Europe.
        • by m00sh ( 2538182 )

          Seriously, I have to get used to a (very noticeable) lower standard of living when I go on vacation in Europe.

          Exactly! No SUVs and a lot of them without even cars. People have to take public transit or ride their bicycles.

          No yard and tiny apartments.

          • by postbigbang ( 761081 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:45PM (#64427606)

            And yet the happiness measures are stellar in the EU, and the underclasses in the US continue to be abused by health care costs, their transportation costs/insurance, insane housing values because the market is both usurious and bought up by corporate real estate, and the millionaire+ class has fudged the tax code so that only they win.

            The EU has control of the destiny of tech because the US Congress is bought-off by the tech companies, and the economy has its lips to the shadow economics of the oil cartels, domestic and foreign.

            In the US you have to work harder than hell because success mandates considering only economic terms. Quality of life is second, third, if it's even considered at all. Serfdom has been re-invented.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Ed Tice ( 3732157 )
              The EU has done a much better job on healthcare than the US for sure. Pretty much everywhere has done a better job on healthcare That doesn't mean the EU has done better when it comes to workplace regulation. And you can't use the overall happiness scored to support that assertion. Living somewhere with much better healthcare and somewhat lower workplace quality would still result in a much higher overall level of happiness. To do what you want, you would have to somehow try to control for the effects o
              • Can't tell where you work or live, and so I'll make the remark that you're wrong as a guess that you're an American. So am I, but have traveled to and have many colleagues in the EU.

                Entrepreneurship isn't an end-all. Not all want to become a capitalist. Benign capitalism has become an oxymoron. It's all all about consumerism, At each turn, microservices suck the micropayments diluting what taxes take. I don't decry taxes-- we need them. Taxation vexes everyone.

                The Norwegian Bankers want return on revenue.

                • Yes I live in the US but have also lived in Europe. I am not disagreeing with your conclusions (that you might have intuitively right). But even if your conclusion is correct, your statistical model to support it is wrong. You can't do a statistical analysis without accounting for confounding variables. The happiness in Europe might be partially a result of workplace regulation. It's a good hypothesis. But you can't look at higher happiness level and then take any difference between Europe and the US
                  • Happiness is not the result of a statistical model. Statistics say, by survey, that the EU is overall happier, in some members, leading the freaking world.

                    The human condition is tough to assess, because there are seven billion+ opinions on any given day. For purposes of argument, let's say there are some general reasons that are stated in varying surveys. No one says any of the EU member happiness is total and 100% bliss. People squabble-- see opinions.

                    The generalizations, made by comparison, stick to the w

          • Yeah, because EU people have more important priorities than a huge car and/or a huge house. Quite the shocker...

          • Hmm I have a house, a garden (not a yard), a bicycle, no car and regularly use public transport.

            Not really sure what the problem is.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          This is the same kind of reasoning, i.e. "the natural order of things," that Jan Smuts used for his "holism" theory in order to justify apartheid in South Africa in the late 1940s. Yeah, that's after WWII & the holocaust shocked the world.

          Or perhaps the USA should listen to corporations & do what the Somoza regime in Nicaragua did; keep 95% of the population illiterate so that they could be forced to work as farm labourers for corporations & wouldn't get any ideas about upward mobility, bette
        • by znrt ( 2424692 )

          Also, the average American makes 75% more than the average European. 30 years ago the average American and average European made the same amount.

          and ofc you will back that colorful statement with numbers.

          You really think that doesn't impact your quality of life? Seriously, I have to get used to a (very noticeable) lower standard of living when I go on vacation in Europe.

          nonsense. where have you been on vacation lately, in ukraine? maybe you are not earning enough after all, or you are being cheap with your vacations just because?

          by the way, all those "service/work that pays little more than minimum wage" which are the majority of the workforce in the us couldn't afford a flight to europe even if they had the free time to enjoy vacations to begin with, which they don't.

        • by ljw1004 ( 764174 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:47PM (#64428708)

          You really think that doesn't impact your quality of life? Seriously, I have to get used to a (very noticeable) lower standard of living when I go on vacation in Europe.

          I find that so preposterous. I think you're making it up. Back in 2002-2004 I lived and worked in Italy earning $12k/year as a postdoc. My quality of life there in Italy was substantially higher than when I emigrated to Seattle in 2004 for a $120k/year job. I still live in Seattle and vacation in Europe every other year. My quality of life there is always higher than Seattle.

          Let's get away from personal anecdote. Here's a list. https://www.usnews.com/news/be... [usnews.com] - these countries are listed as higher quality of life than US: sweden, norway, canada, denmark, finland, switzerland, netherlands, australia, germany, new zealand, belgium, austria, uk, japan, ireland, luxembourg, france, spain, portugal, italy, singapore, poland

          The only european countries listed as lower quality of life than the US are greece plus former soviet countries: greece, czechia, croatia, hungary, romania, bulgaria, estonia, slovakia, slovenia, cyprus, lithuania.

          Let's look elsewhere. https://worldpopulationreview.... [worldpopul...review.com] - the story's exactly the same: highest quality of life in Europe, and the US is quite far down.

          Maybe there's something really unusual about your personal circumstances that you got a higher quality of life in the US than when you vacation in Europe? It's hard to imagine (1) how that's possible, (2) why you even continue to vacation in Europe.

      • Indeed. Forcing somebody to work more than 10h/day and 50h/week counts as assault and can land you in prison in some countries in Europe.

        Funny...that's not something I've ever run into my whole career.

        There have been a very FEW long nighters here and there when we had to get something out the door, or maybe servers/database went off line....

        But those were extremely rare occasions...which I could likely count on both hands all my life and still have fingers left.

        No one holds a gun to your head to work ou

        • Ah, the infamous misquote of John Steinbeck springs to mind, "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
      • I think it's more of a monopoly problem in the US, all the tech companies siphon cash and it leaves the region. A few decades there were a lot of local businesses that would circulate the cash regionally, now it goes straight into a billionaires pocket. The worst is now the middle class can't afford to buy a house, because of stupid idiocy. All the while the national debt increases. But there won't be change because people prefer the status quo, and everytime people have a reason to change the government st
      • The US is losing its middle-class and everybody is getting poorer and poorer (excluding the rich). The same does not happen in Europe.

        Please state your source, I have no data, but my observation is that the middle class is disappearing in both the US and Europe at about the same rate.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          You are probably thinking of the UK. That is not Europe anymore and never really was.

          • Nope, I was not thinking of the UK. (Which is still in Europe, BTW, just not in the European Union)

    • by jmccue ( 834797 )
      And this also shows why many in the US we are obese and less healthy. Many people have no time to eat healthy food. Only the very well off can. That is one of the reasons why many people in poor neighborhoods tend to be heaver and have a shorter life span.
      • This is pretty much the same as every country that doesn't have a famine problem. There are plenty of fat people in less developed countries. Sugar in particular is very cheap in central and south America.
      • On average, the working week in the USA is on a par with poorer eastern European countries & some south American ones. See: https://worldpopulationreview.... [worldpopul...review.com]

        Meanwhile, other OECD countries are re-discovering the benefits of 32 hour working weeks; fewer hours, same or better productivity, & better lives.

        Additionally, Norway's rate of child poverty is at 6.7% while the USA's is at 20.4%: https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com] & Norway's productivity per capita ($100.3/h) is waaay higher than the
    • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:44PM (#64427594)
      Additionally, working hard doesn't necessarily mean being more productive either. For example, Norway's productivity per hour worked is estimated at $100.3 whereas the USA's is at $73.7. That's quite a big gap from anyone's perspective. I guess Norwegian workers are just better at it. In fact US workers are behind Ireland, Norway, Switzerland, Luxembourg, & Denmark in productivity. And guess which countries have better quality of life* ratings than the USA?

      *Not to be confused with the materialistic, vacuous "standard of living" metric.
      • Perhaps that's *why* US workers need to put in more hours, so that they get the same total productivity out of a work week.
      • Yep, amazing what a month of guaranteed vacation and a good work life balance can do.

  • except.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cellocgw ( 617879 ) <cellocgw@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:04PM (#64427422) Journal

    Well,yeah, if $$$$ is your only criterion. Some of us value time off, lower stress, comfortable retirement, etc. over stock prices

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 )

      Well,yeah, if $$$$ is your only criterion. Some of us value time off, lower stress, comfortable retirement, etc. over stock prices

      Funny, I found that as I got more $$$ over time, I had lower stress, funded my retirement....and could afford time off somewhere nice.

      I could also afford a nice single family home where I didn't share walls with neighbors, and had a nice back yard for my large offset wood burning smoker (BBQ is a big hobby of mine)....my ceramic grill....etc.

      I like that with $$ I can fund all

      • by Lips ( 26363 )
        It isn't the $$$ that is making you happy, but the options you have with that income. If you could have your hobbies without $$$ would you be less happy? I tell my kids, money doesn't bring you happiness, it gives you choices. And even if you have lots of money, you can and still be miserable if you make the wrong choices.
  • Also, I'm jealous.

  • I should be careful about talking about work-life balance, but ...

    Be proud that an IT guy tells you: Get A Life.

  • by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:13PM (#64427454) Homepage Journal

    You could rewrite this headline as "Americans less hard working than the Chinese."

    Do you as an American really want to work 100 hours a week, 7 days a week, and live on the company campus? No! We as Americans have decided that's a terrible existence and we want more leisure time to spend with out friends and family.

    Europe has decided its even more important to them.

    We should be working as a civilization to build the world of Star Trek, not a dystopia where we all work harder. For the religious we should be building heaven on Earth, not hell on Earth.

    The 40 hour, 5 day work week is a totally arbitrary number made up long before you were born. Its time for that to change, and in the downward direction.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by timeOday ( 582209 )
      The European lifestyle of the last 50 years is not sustainable. Their retirement benefits were enabled by population growth, which has ended [macrotrends.net].

      So, something's gotta give. Could be any of the following:

      • Massive leaps in technology. (Mostly from America and it's 'horrible' work culture by the way).
      • Decreased standard of living - consuming less, retiring older. And maybe being less materialistic is fine, that's a value judgment
      • Mass immigration. Of course what changes that might have on the economy and lit
    • The 40 hour, 5 day work week is a totally arbitrary number made up long before you were born. Its time for that to change, and in the downward direction.

      It took strikes and actual deaths to arrive at those numbers.

  • by dsgrntlxmply ( 610492 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:13PM (#64427460)
    I liked working for an American unit of a German company because my boss was usually on vacation.
  • "You go bust in America, you get another chance. In Europe, you're dead,"

    This may be true but at the same time in America it's sometimes too easy for people who went bust, deserved to go bust and who every sign of learning no lessons going bust once again to get way too many chances. How many tech startup failures have their people actually fail upwards? Far too many in my opinion.

    Also it wasn't until 2009 (and is sometimes till true today) that "going bust" means you are one uninsured illness from being literally dead.

    He is right in a certain broad sense though. So many of th

  • by nosfucious ( 157958 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:16PM (#64427470)

    Multimillionaire complains that he and other capitalists can't exploit everyone the same way that they can exploit Americans.

    Despite self-delusion about "land of the free", freedom only belongs to the rich. Sure, slavery was abolished, but if you're too scared to leave your job or say "no" because you'll lose your house or healthcare? Is that freedom?

    And its not like the American firms freely share the bounty of the reduced worker protections. Bonuses are a thing of the past and pay rises are a unicorn. No, bonuses are reserved for the "Upper Elite" and of course, Shareholders (as dividends or higher share prices).

    So why not chill out, relax a bit? And say "Fuck it" once or twice. Or perhaps "Fuck you" to someone that needs it. You'll live longer and be happier for it.

    • Slavery was not abolished at all. Section 1 of the 13th Amendment reads,

      Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States

  • Sure, Americans pay taxes and inflated costs of goods to provide military security for Europe, drug development, technology development, etc. so they have more money for healthcare, arts, and leisure.

    Everybody should need to work less as technology and productivity increases while maintaining the same standard of living, but nooooo, we can't have nice things.

    Materialism plays a small part but GenZ has correctly realized that they can never live as well as their grandparents under this regime.

    Boomers are hap

  • "the general level of ambition. We are not very ambitious. I should be careful about talking about work-life balance, but the Americans just work harder." His views are significant as the oil fund is one of the largest single investors in the world, owning on average 1.5 per cent of every listed company globally and 2.5 per cent of every European equity. Its US holdings have increased in the past decade while its European ones have declined.

    Translation: "Wahhhh!!! I want my EU investments to make better returns! Wahhhh!"

    Clearly he's looking to be the next Walmart-type asshole. [workdaymagazine.org]

  • Hardly proof of anything, but my experience with working with Europeans is that they tend to be very respectful of people's time and very productive. They produce quality outcomes with little wasted effort and woe betide anyone who tries to contact M. Hulot on his holiday.
  • It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

  • ...and the hardcore people who dislike all of the roadblocks to innovation move somewhere else

  • by plate_o_shrimp ( 948271 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @12:43PM (#64427592)

    "Europeans generally happier than Americans, studies show"

  • and consequently there is a greater awareness that if you slack off in life, you may find yourself in a very uncomfortable situation very quickly.

    The welfare state hides this from you. It promises to have your back if you fall, but implicit in that promise is that the welfare state will also have your back if you don't bother to try in the first place.

    Yes, it is more cruel in its own way. But it is more honest. And the effect seems to be a net positive if measured along the cold hard axis of productivity an

  • Americans are "lazy" compared to Asians, at least in terms of hours worked. However, a lot of total hours worked is neither necessary not sufficient for business success. Being in the right place at the right time is both necessary and sufficient, coupled with sufficient competency in the right areas.

  • He would like to treat his workers the way we're treated here.

    Why are there no secretaries in companies any more? Because they were all re-titled "administrative assistants", and labelled "management". Then, like the rest of us, they could be told "whatever it takes", and worked as many hours as management wanted, and they don't have to pay overtime.

    Some moron above posted "they'll tell you how many hours a week you work".

    %^&*(#$%^&*(#$%^&*)P$%^&*#$ You, personally, are a scum-sucking scab,

  • "You go bust in America, you get another chance. In Europe, you're dead."

    By "you", he means "capitalists attempting to exploit the workers to make more than their share."

    Interestingly, the exact opposite situation seems to obtain for the workers themselves. That is, if a worker goes bust in Europe, they get another chance. In America, they're dead. Possibly literally.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @02:01PM (#64427862)

    Nothing new, but I always find it funny here how so many Americans and Europeans like to point out each others' shortcomings, convinced that it demonstrates the other group is living in a hellhole.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @02:02PM (#64427870)
    the word you were looking for is "smarter". They smell your bullshit and they're not buying it.

    As a kid I could be tricked into working *really* fucking hard for *really* low pay. Took a long time to grow out of that. My kid fell into it too, really pissed me off.

    As an American you're taught from day 1 that your life isn't valuable and the only thing that makes it valuable is hard work.
  • That's just how corporations want it. Americans work themselves to death over fear of losing their jobs ~ overseas ~ while wages stagnate (when compared to inflation), benefits erode, taxes increase, comfortable retirement is a myth for most of America, while the oligarchs get richer and richer. The ruling donor class uses this wealth to buy off our electeds to pass laws for them to pull food from our mouths to line their pockets. And yet we continue the support them with our votes and villainize unions.
  • A Rich guy telling others to work harder so he can make more money. Europe has a better life / work system than America,
  • Cette chose, ce n'est pas vrai!
    Mais, oui, il ne peut pas le faire.

  • Some people want to enjoy their lives, rather than just work. They will have fewer things - so what?
  • Most Americans "go to work" for the alloted time, but half of that is sitting on the toilet, browsing the web and talking with co-workers. I guess if you work for amazon then that isn't the case because they won't let you go to the bathroom for more then X amount of minutes so Jeff can get another yacht. So just the amount working doesn't count. I know eastern europeans (generally) work harder than Americans
  • What is this guy trying to sell to Americans?

  • I lived in Norway for about 14 months. I used to have a Norwegian girlfriend. I have a bunch of Norwegian pals I still go visit every couple years or so (sometimes they come to me). I converse with them over Signal a lot using monologues. So, we have 2-3 conversations a week. First, it's required to take more vacation time in Norway (5 weeks, I believe). I also notice my friends seem to have more leeway from their bosses to take time off.

    One of my friends works for the state in one of the southern cities
  • "I like wage slavery," says the oil tycoon who wants to treat labor as a cheap alternative to automation and human dignity.
  • He's moving some assets into US companies because they're innovative. Fair enough.

    He thinks they're innovative because they've got more hustle. OK. That's almost circular.

    He thinks they've got more hustle because Americans work longer hours. That doesn't follow at all.

    Sometimes you work longer hours because the boss forces you to, and you are giving him as little for the time as possible. Sometimes you work longer hours because you're disorganized, bad at planning and managing your time. I've seen that

  • by ironicsky ( 569792 ) on Friday April 26, 2024 @05:53PM (#64428586) Homepage Journal

    Fuck American work culture. It sucks. It's unhealthy. It's unsustainable.

    We shouldn't be living to just work. Work should pay for our life, but not be our life.

    Europe does it right. Less work hours a week. Some countries like France have rules about contacting employees after hours, 4 weeks of vacation to start, and great benefits.

    By contrast, The USA and Canada expects people to be available 24/7. They treat employees like property. And without worker protection and the "at will" work legislation, if you don't like the burn out your employer can fire you without cause.

MESSAGE ACKNOWLEDGED -- The Pershing II missiles have been launched.

Working...