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United States

Health Officials Tried To Evade Public Records Laws, Lawmakers Say 184

House Republicans this week accused officials at the National Institutes of Health of orchestrating "a conspiracy at the highest levels" of the agency to hide public records related to the origins of the Covid pandemic. And the lawmakers promised to expand an investigation that has turned up emails in which senior health officials talked openly about trying to evade federal records laws. From a report: The latest accusations -- coming days before a House panel publicly questions Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a former top N.I.H. official -- represent one front of an intensifying push by lawmakers to link American research groups and the country's premier medical research agency with the beginnings of the Covid pandemic.

That push has so far yielded no evidence that American scientists or health officials had anything to do with the coronavirus outbreak. But the House panel, the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic, has released a series of private emails that suggest at least some N.I.H. officials deleted messages and tried to skirt public records laws in the face of scrutiny over the pandemic. Even those N.I.H. officials whose job it was to produce records under the Freedom of Information Act may have helped their colleagues avoid their obligations under that law, several emails suggest. The law, known as FOIA, gives people the right to obtain copies of federal records.
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Health Officials Tried To Evade Public Records Laws, Lawmakers Say

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  • by FictionPimp ( 712802 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @01:46PM (#64508225) Homepage

    There is a simple solution to this problem which is systemic in all branches and levels of government. Make it a minimum mandatory 10 year sentence to communicate using private communications when serving in a governmental role.

    That puts pretty much every politician in jail and solves the problem.

    • by Can'tNot ( 5553824 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @02:21PM (#64508315)
      This puts no politicians in jail, of course. We have politicians right now who have committed a much larger number of much more serious crimes, all of which carry significant prison sentences. They rarely go to jail and it takes years to even get them into a courtroom.

      You solution would also not help with the bullshit from the article. Partisan displays like this will happen regardless of evidence or penalties.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by ehack ( 115197 )

        Have you actually seen exactly what they were trying to hide? Spoiler alert - it's something that happened BEFORE Covid became a pandemic and that involved Chinese partners. You might be a bit ... uncomfortable, when you read it.

      • by jythie ( 914043 )
        Yeah, this would be unlikely to impact the wealthy or connected. On the other hand, it could be a potent weapon against small non profits since groups without an army of lawyers already find complying with complex record keeping requirements difficult. Miss one order of paperclips from a decade ago and poof.
    • by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @02:46PM (#64508395) Journal
      Make it a minimum mandatory 10 year sentence to communicate using private communications when serving in a governmental role.

      That would mean most of the last administration should now be in jail since we have unequivocal evidence [newsweek.com] they were using private communications to shield themselves and hide their goings on.
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        So would the Obama administration. Joe's gmail. Hillary's private server...
      • The parent was correct in saying that most politicians would be facing significant jail time under the fantasy of real enforcement. Here are some examples from the Federal statues

        18 U.S.C. 2071 (Concealment, removal, or mutilation of records) gets you up to three years in jail.
        18 U.S.C. 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in federal investigations gets you up to 20 years in jail
        18 U.S.C. 1001 - False statements can get you 8 years in jail
      • As well the Biden, Obama, and Bush administrations.

        In short, they're all doing it.

        Or does that hurt your "Trump's always at fault" messaging?

    • by LazarusQLong ( 5486838 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @03:09PM (#64508463)
      well, as a fed, I can tell you honestly that not all federal records are subject to FOIA... I am not talking about classified stuff, everybody (should) know that a FOIA request is going to either be heavily redacted such that it is largely unreadable or declined based on its classification. There are whole classes of data which are both not classified and not releasable. It is complex, I am betting those emails are mostly talking about if the data requested is releasable, not trying to 'skirt the law.'

      such a law would be nice if it would be followed. It is already illegal to do government work on a non-government computer, and you see how well that works. I am not a republican, yet, when Hilary was running her own private email server, I was steamed, because if I had done that, I'd still me in jail! If I got caught with classified documents at my house, once again, I would a) already be in jail, and b) be there for a long time. it steams me no end that people of a certain level don't get punished as I would be, and yes, we all have to sign the same docs about protecting classified data.

      • by whitroth ( 9367 ) <whitroth@@@5-cent...us> on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @03:22PM (#64508501) Homepage

        Having worked at the NIH 10 years before I retired, I suspect that what they're talking about was actually data protected under HIPAA - personally identifying data of those infected.

        • thanks. people who have never been feds don't understand the world we live in. We have more laws that we are subject to, and with serious, life changing punishments, if you are what some call, 'one of the little people'
        • by jythie ( 914043 )
          Yeah.. that has become one of the new rhetorical tactics. It doesn't matter what is in the info, just start requesting stuff you know they legally can't give you and then using that as proof they are withholding proof of whatever claim you are making.
        • The last time there were headlines like this, that is exactly what was happening. Republican legislators were asking for records that they knew perfectly well were HIPAA protected and then badmouthing NIH for not providing them. At that time it was data about vaccine trials, where the information needed for public evaluation had already been released and more, but the Republicans were pushing the line into data, like original patient records, that were never intended to be subject to FOIA because of HIPAA

      • by Hodr ( 219920 )

        This is all kinds of wrong. First off, it's not "illegal to do government work on a non-government computer". An easy and recent example is a very large proportion of remote workers who had their VPNs shut off due to security concerns who were directed to make use of Citrix and/or Remote Desktop from personal machines, others are making do with webmail.

        Second, it's actually pretty easy to determine if data is releasable under FOIA. The justice department has a very straightforward flow-chart and guide, o

        • well, I work for the DoD and we were told to simply take our work laptops home because it is illegal for us to do government work on non-government machines!.
          • by GPSguy ( 62002 )

            All depends on the type of work being done. If you were working on classified material (and had appropriate permissions to do so from home, you DID have to work on your work laptop. I was at NOAA during the Pandemic and didn't have a "work" laptop, but had requested a work desktop for home and was told to use my own personal system (computational modeling). When the VPN decided to stop playing with Linux, we played the game again, and I was denied again. So O created a work-around that exceeded security req

            • I am serious, DoD told all of us to take our work laptops home, and that it was illegal to use your personal equipment for all government work. When the VPN became compromised a month or two ago, we just rolled into a different solution that our IT guys had as backup for us. Yeah, my work laptop is only certified for CUI, nothing higher. I used to have a secret laptop, but that needed to be locked in the (appropriately certified) safe every night, and I do not have a safe at home! Now I have a classified to
        • secondly, the Justice Department can have anything it wants, if I receive a FOIA, I have to run it up the chain and send it to OUR legal department. It'll take weeks or months to get an answer back from my chain, and it will take weeks to get it back from legal, which I need to also send up the chain. That's why it will most likely take a month or two. Just to get an answer.
      • If Congress does not have access to information, how will they guide the country effectively and efficiently? Why do various Executive agencies feel like they can deny Congress ANY information at all? There is no single piece of information generated from a Federal Agency that Congress should be prohibited from examining. Those Federal Agencies exist at the whim of Congress.

    • There is a simple solution to this problem which is systemic in all branches and levels of government. Make it a minimum mandatory 10 year sentence to communicate using private communications when serving in a governmental role.

      That puts pretty much every politician in jail and solves the problem.

      But ... but ... then our people would have to follow the rules too!!!! Blasphemy!

    • Or to delete any communications to hide them from FOIA requests.
  • by GPSguy ( 62002 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @02:02PM (#64508257)

    Having spent a few hours of my life since 18 JAN 2020 looking at COVID-19 (the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2) and being somewhat familiar with coronaviruses, although I'll admit I know MUCH more now than I did then, it's pretty fair to assume SARS-CoV-2 originated in China, in Hubei Province. There's evidence that it was actually circulating in the US, and around the world... and certainly in China... somewhat earlier than the official date placed in early March for the US, and certainly well before the US initiated travel restrictions. Blood bank samples have found evidence of specific antigen and antibodies, and several unexplained outbreaks of non-influenza viral pneumonia were seen in 2019.
    Whether the virus was under study at the Wuhan Institute of Virology we may never know due to the removal of US National Institutes of Health personnel somewhat before this outbreak. In fact early reports of the outbreak came through an Australian connection, and a Tweet from a Chinese clinician that was subsequently removed. It became pretty obvious that, once the Chinese Communist Party apparatus understood the potential magnitude of the outbreak they shut down communication, and attempted to defeat the disease internally, but too late.
    But really, where the virus came from doesn't matter, as we can't put the genie back in the bottle. And China had more illnesses and deaths, proportionately, than the US did, and took more draconian measures than the US ever contemplated. And they were unsuccessful, even with a Zero-COVID policy, in stopping spread.
    Most of the information held by the US regarding COVID origins has been pretty publically accessible, and openly discussed on multiple forums. For the most part, the GOP lawmakers have been responsible for attempting to hide accurate information on the disease, efficacy of masks and other non-pharmaceutical interventions, and vaccines. If there's a conspiracy, I suspect they should look in their own house.

    • we may never know due to the removal of US National Institutes of Health personnel somewhat before this outbreak.

      I hope this committee throws the book at the idiots that dismantled key parts of NIH's global plan. It wouldn't solve anything but it would be nice to see those idiot hitting themselves with a book.

      • I hope this committee throws the book at the idiots that dismantled key parts of NIH's global plan.

        That would be the guy who's on trial in New York for 34 felony counts of falsifying business documents to cover up his payment to a porn star as well as election law violations. He fired most of the staff [reuters.com] in China almost as soon as he got into office [snopes.com].
    • by radoni ( 267396 )

      Firsthand I can confirm that this "fish virus" as we were calling it was circulating at the ski resorts in N Lake Tahoe before it had a name or any recognition in the news. What is normally a line of work where this person or that person shows up and we divvy up whatever clients paid for their service, became a pretty dismal situation where we had fewer and fewer people healthy enough to service greater and greater numbers of clients. You'd get a nosebleed, and then about a week later 50% chance you were in

      • Firsthand I can confirm that this "fish virus" as we were calling it was circulating at the ski resorts in N Lake Tahoe before it had a name or any recognition in the news.

        You made the statement, show your evidence.

        were told it would be $5'000usd and at our expense;

        Show your evidence.

        there was a corporate hotline you could call and report illness... everyone we know that used the hotline was fired.

        Show your evidence.
        • You're not wrong to reject anecdotal evidence, but first hand accounts are in and of themselves a form of evidence, just not particularly strong evidence in isolation. Grognarding in this way is less helpful than suggesting that grandparent could be an example of Hindsight Bias.
    • because knowing that we can take steps to prevent that vector from happening again.

      Scientists are in agreement it came out of the wet markets, the only debate is whether it got it's start because of the deforestation putting people in contact with wild animals even more.

      China would like Very much for us to ignore that because the wet markets + deforestation is what's keeping their rural economies going. For their part the GOP would like to blame a lab leak because it distracts from their poor handli
    • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @03:00PM (#64508437)
      Yeah, I used to be a self-taught "expert" on virology but then I got bored with it & decided that I want to be a self-taught expert on machine learning & AI.
      • Yeah, I used to be a self-taught "expert" on virology but then I got bored with it & decided that I want to be a self-taught expert on machine learning & AI.

        How did you learn that? I mean learning virology is easy, there's literally countless educational sources on Facebook for that, but AI?

      • Humanism is now dead.

        Because in 2024 we have now come to the point where we disbelieve the ability of "normals" to understand any concept of science, causality, or simple facts.

        We must ONLY accept facts from authorized* experts.

        *to be clear, these are the ones delivering the facts that we want to hear and that confirm our biases; other people objectively experts through their experience or credentials we'll label deniers, alt-right, or figure out some circuitous way that they have some financial gain (not t

      • Yeah, I used to be a self-taught "expert" on virology but then I got bored with it & decided that I want to be a self-taught expert on machine learning & AI.

        Without testing yourself, how do you know that what you learned from your own research is valid?

        (i know, you were just being silly)

    • Most of the information held by the US regarding COVID origins has been pretty publically accessible

      How do you know that? There's a really big [citation needed] there.

    • > There's evidence that it was actually circulating .. somewhat earlier .. and certainly well before the US initiated travel restrictions

      Especially as Fauci had already patented a Coronavirus vaccine ;)

      > Whether the virus was under study at the Wuhan Institute of Virology we may never know due

      Well spun, introduce just the right amount of doubt ;) We could compare the genetic sequence of the Coronavirus they were experimenting on at the Wuhan Lab to the naturally occurring one collected from t
  • Doesn't look good... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by physicsphairy ( 720718 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @02:37PM (#64508367)

    Some of the incriminating comments

    learned from our foia lady here how to make emails disappear after I am foia’d but before the search starts

    I hope NIH can help reduce the amount that comes out

    BOTH my gmail and phone calls are now safe. Text is NOT, as it can be FOIA'd, as can my govt email. So you and Peter and others should be able to email me on gmail only, with the caveat that no other govt. employee is copied at a govt address, as all govt emails are potentially FOIA'able.

    PS, I forgot to say there is no worry about FOIAs. I can either send stuff to Tony on his private gmail, or hand it to him at work or at his house. He is too smart to let colleagues send him stuff that could cause trouble.

    I deleted that email but I now learn that every email I ever got/sent since 1998 is captured and will be turned over, whether or not I instantly deleted it. Gmail, phone, text ... I need to scrupulously rely on those exclusively.

    Examples have also surfaced of using intentional misspellings of words to make sure they wouldn't be searchable for FOIA requests [x.com].

    "Why didn't you report this to our ethics office?" "I don't know... I don't even know what our ethics office does." -- Senior advisor Morens under testimony [x.com]

    • Those screenshots look like someone drew them in MS paint and then took pictures with a flip phone.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      GOP has a habit of dragging in nothing-burgers that look like real meat initially, so let's not jump to conclusions.

    • Some of the incriminating comments

      learned from our foia lady here how to make emails disappear after I am foia’d but before the search starts

      I hope NIH can help reduce the amount that comes out

      BOTH my gmail and phone calls are now safe. Text is NOT, as it can be FOIA'd, as can my govt email. So you and Peter and others should be able to email me on gmail only, with the caveat that no other govt. employee is copied at a govt address, as all govt emails are potentially FOIA'able.

      PS, I forgot to say there is no worry about FOIAs. I can either send stuff to Tony on his private gmail, or hand it to him at work or at his house. He is too smart to let colleagues send him stuff that could cause trouble.

      I deleted that email but I now learn that every email I ever got/sent since 1998 is captured and will be turned over, whether or not I instantly deleted it. Gmail, phone, text ... I need to scrupulously rely on those exclusively.

      Examples have also surfaced of using intentional misspellings of words to make sure they wouldn't be searchable for FOIA requests [x.com].

      "Why didn't you report this to our ethics office?" "I don't know... I don't even know what our ethics office does." -- Senior advisor Morens under testimony [x.com]

      I'm all for investigating potential wrongdoing. But... let's keep in mind that it's entirely possible the material that might've been hidden could look like:

      Tom: Jesus Christ Mark, Trump is off his fucking rocker again going on about drinking bleach. This dip-fuck needs to drown in a pool full of piranha while juggling plugged-in-toasters. I swear to God, if this moron goes off on this China-virus 'it's what I heard' bullshit again, I'm going to defect to Russia with all our nuclear codes.

      Mark: Tom,

    • Sounds like garden variety comments in any /. discussion about privacy issues in the twenty five years I've been paying attention to /.
  • They will never score, and their voters will never care. So much worse than being a Knicks fan.
  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @03:17PM (#64508493) Journal

    I'm going to eat the pets of the next Slashdot approver who posts links to commonly known pay/register-walled sources, like NYT, WSJ, Wash Post, etc.

  • puty your ducks in a row first after all chicken little you know what happens when you cry wolf once too often,
  • That push has so far yielded no evidence

    This seems to be a recurring theme for House GOP. Doesn't matter, as it's performance theater for their base.

  • by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @04:25PM (#64508645) Homepage Journal

    I see lots of commenters here haven't kept up with the evolving science.

    Here's a video that will get you current, accurately, on the science and the coverup:

    https://youtu.be/nfSHifSiPhY [youtu.be]

  • My take is this is obviously biological warfare research that got out of hand. Made right here in the good old USA, then shipped to China for testing. China is famous for cutting corners and being sloppy, and it got loose. Seems that level 4 pathogens aren't in fact secure when stored in level 2 facilities. Who knew? Well, I mean who knew other than the US and Chinese governments, of course they knew.

    The resesrch is still going on. My guess is China is off the table as a testing partner, at least temporaril

  • This is all about the election, and it is a blatant attempt to distract attention away from the utterly dysfunctional and completely useless job the Republican controlled House has done. It is the most unproductive House session in decades. [politifact.com]

    It’s too early to know where the current Congress will end up in the number of laws enacted, as the session doesn’t end until January 2025. But through March 26, the 118th has passed half as many bills in about 15 months as any previous Congress did through th

  • My younger sister is one of the countless people affected by the Covid-19 vax. Minor stroke a couple weeks ago. Affected her voice, smile and minor issues with her right side. Her doctor, who when this started in 2020-2021 said that he was prevented from telling people that the shot was unsafe because it wasn't tested long enough and that doctors would lose their license if they pushed too hard. Now, he tells his patients to NOT get the vax. There needs to be accountability in this global boondoggle!
  • That's the only fact we can be certain of. Whilst it is speculation to blame a leak from the lab or to blame weapons research, the Chinese have created a climate where such ideas will flourish. If the conspiracy theorists had never been right, and the US government had never indulged in highly unethical behaviour, then it would have a reservoir of trust to draw on. As it is, there isn't.

    https://www.discovermagazine.c... [discovermagazine.com]

  • Tablizer [slashdot.org]: “GOP has a habit of dragging in nothing-burgers that look like real meat initially, so let's not jump to conclusions.

    'tis but a scratch [youtube.com] ;)
  • I saw an NIH official in a clip from the hearing where Congressmen were asking him to explain emails he had sent where he explains to colleagues that he spoke with the Department's FOIA group, and they told him how to "hide" his emails from possible FOIA requests, and he encouraged everyone to start communicating 'sensitive' information via private emails. I believe he tried to claim it was a joke.

    Then again, I remember Hillary, when she was Secretary of State **NEVER** logged into her secure government ema

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