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United States Education

New York Governor To Launch Bill Banning Smartphones in Schools (theguardian.com) 113

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
The New York governor, Kathy Hochul, plans to introduce a bill banning smartphones in schools, the latest in a series of legislative moves aimed at online child safety by New York's top official. From a report: "I have seen these addictive algorithms pull in young people, literally capture them and make them prisoners in a space where they are cut off from human connection, social interaction and normal classroom activity," she said. Hochul said she would launch the bill later this year and take it up in New York's next legislative session, which begins in January 2025. If passed, schoolchildren will be allowed to carry simple phones that cannot access the internet but do have the capability to send texts, which has been a sticking point for parents. She did not offer specifics on enforcing the prohibition. "Parents are very anxious about mass shootings in school," she said. "Parents want the ability to have some form of connection in an emergency situation." The smartphone-ban bill will follow two others Hochul is pushing that outline measures to safeguard children's privacy online and limit their access to certain features of social networks.
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New York Governor To Launch Bill Banning Smartphones in Schools More

New York Governor To Launch Bill Banning Smartphones in Schools

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  • could send and receive text messages back in the 2000's and usually, you could also set them up to send and receive email and view the web, though that second part was painful, and the email part required some level of technology capability/knowledge, but they could be done.

  • This might be a good idea, but it's also not practical. How easy is it to swap SIMs between phones in the US? OK, what about swapping an eSIM?

    Unless they're going to require carriers to fix this mess, then putting the burden on the parents isn't going to magically fix things. Kids are going to have smartphones. Buying a second phone for $30 would be great if it didn't need its own phone number and cell plan.

    I'd argue for having an automatic "school" mode built into a phone OS that would disable all that

    • This might be a good idea, but it's also not practical. How easy is it to swap SIMs between phones in the US? OK, what about swapping an eSIM?

      Unless they're going to require carriers to fix this mess, then putting the burden on the parents isn't going to magically fix things.

      Well, these days it wouldn't cost that much to set up Stingrays in schools. Firewalls would determine which internet sites, if any, the students' phones could access.

      The Stingray could be set to allow full internet access to the IMEIs associated with staff phones. Careful antenna layout and radiation pattern shaping could minimize 'capturing' the phones of passersby who just happen to be close to the school. And the important-in-an-emergency stuff - texts and voice calls - would still work on all phones.

      All

      • And then the device would disallow connecting to the APN for all other devices. Except that SMS, MMS, and Voice calling all use data connections through it.

        And the connection to the APN would be encrypted.

      • there used to be a show in the UK where Richard hammond would explore various things. Two of the shows were dedicated to cell phone sensitivity in people, yes, some people claim to be able to 'feel' cell phone signals, some claim they give them headaches. In a UK equivalent to a highschool, wherein about 80% of the kids complained about the cell signals giving them headaches and nausea he set up an experiment, it was a small, portable femto cell.

        He told the kids that he had just turned it on and would le

        • Re: They need a better plan (Score:5, Funny)

          by newcastlejon ( 1483695 ) on Thursday May 30, 2024 @05:31PM (#64511795)

          I worked for a UK mobile phone network for a few years while I was in college (16-18 over here) and I remember a call from a very shouty lady demanding thousands to compensate her for building a tower near her home, how it was hideous to look at and most importantly how she'd had non-stop migraines for the past fortnight.

          I told here there was really nothing we could do about the physical appearance of the mast but she was welcome to call back about her other issues in three weeks time⦠by which point it would be turned on.

        • It makes sense that the signals from such a cell would be both too low in amplitude and and too intermittent to have any discernible effects on people. But I can tell you that my boss's old analog cell phone caused me very noticeable effects. The average transmit power was much higher than it is in today's phones.

          When I used that phone for a few minutes, I would get this uncomfortable itch inside my head. So I would switch the phone to the other side. The itch on the initial side would go away, but in a few

      • So complicated with cell craziness. Just ban cellular phones in schools and only allow dumb Wi-Fi phones.

      • No, you're trying too hard.

        If you want to deploy a stingray at a school, the device should be set to capture all cellphone service and only allow selected devices (school employees?) to access the cellular network. WiFi networks should be configured the same way (school employees and school-provided tablets/laptops).

        Kids don't need access to cellphones during school, and please, don't try and argue that some schools can't afford to provide kids with access to internet - if the school truly can't afford to s

      • Illegal unless schools get a waiver from the FCC to interfere with celluar signals.

        Law Enforcement gets the waiver because. . . . law enforcement.

        Everyone else is beholden to the FCC rules concerning such things.

    • The better plan is no cell phones in school at all; or at least none in the classrooms. They're unnecessary and a distraction from learning. And for the single exception I can think of where they's actually be useful in the classroom... as much as I hate the idea of supporting Texas and TI's graphing calculator near-monopoly of the last three decades, a dedicated TI-85 (Or it's current-day equivalent) was more useful than any of the scientific/graphing calculator apps I've ever tried on my iPhone. I don'

      • Going to and from school, you can't have your phone on you because it's not just banned in the classroom under this - it's banned from the premises.

        • Still not a problem. I got through all of K-12 and most of college without a cellphone. I can't say for sure how much of a boon that was. But given the calibre (or, rather, the lack thereof) of some of the newly graduated candidates I've interviewed lately; it certainly was not a hinderance.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by flink ( 18449 )

            Still not a problem. I got through all of K-12 and most of college without a cellphone. I can't say for sure how much of a boon that was. But given the calibre (or, rather, the lack thereof) of some of the newly graduated candidates I've interviewed lately; it certainly was not a hinderance.

            You had the option of dropping a dime in a pay phone to get in touch with your parents though. So did I, to say "hey mom, I'm taking the bus home to Ken's house, pick me up at 6.", or "hey, I'm at the library", or whatever. It allowed me to have the freedom to roam wherever I wanted after school.

            Today, payphones are virtually non-existent, so my kid has a phone that stays off in her backpack all day but she can still text/call us to let us know what she's doing after school.

      • The better plan is no cell phones in school at all

        Perhaps. But each school can decide on the best policy for their specific situation. There is no reason to for the state government to impose a draconian on every school.

        Schools already have policies to handle phones. At my kids' high school, phones are required to be turned off and put away during class, but can be used between classes and during lunch.

        If a phone rings during class, the offending student is required to come to the front of the class and dance the Macarena. This is a surprisingly effective

        • You must have gone to school in a much different era. For some reason these days, teachers are seem afraid to be firm with teenagers. I think most teachers want to get rid of the phones in the classroom, but without the topcover from the state or school district, they are clearly hesitant to do so.

          • Perhaps. I live in San Jose, which is 30% Asian, and my school district is 40% Asian.

            Asian parents have no problem with strictness. If anything, they want more.

          • " For some reason these days, teachers are seem afraid to be firm with teenagers "

            Because kiddos these days go full super-saiyan-retard if you try to impose any consequences upon them for their behavior.

            See the kiddo ( age 17 ) who beat the hell out of a teacher for taking away his Nintendo switch.
            See any number of kiddos who come back and shoot up the entire school over stupid shit
            See any number of videos online where kids are attacking bus drivers, teachers, and each other ( occasionally as a mob vs a si

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by tbords ( 9006337 )
        Let's take a trip here. We're going back a few months to a certain school in Texas which just so happened to make national news due to some very frightened little kids and very cowardly cops. Without a phone of any kind, those kids wouldn't have had a chance to say goodbye to their parents, to call for help, to get any information out to the public, etc. Sure, the phone didn't save as many lives. It did, however, give a few parents the chance to know what really happened. The phones aren't with the kids to

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Kids are going to have smartphones. Buying a second phone for $30 would be great if it didn't need its own phone number and cell plan.

      Parents might think twice about letting their kid have a Smartphone if they would now have to pay for two plans.

      I'm sure the marketplace would find a solution to this problem though.

      I would suggest they create a "School-certified Phone" program. Students can't bring your phone in unless it's a Dumb phone OR it's a School-certified phone. Then they would define a tec

      • For any of that possible, they would have to modify the law before passing it. As written, I don't think it would be possible.

      • Your described "school-certified phones" sound like a surveillance nightmare and devices that would sell at a price double (at least) than normal. When is so simple and cost effective: if phone rings in class or the student is found using it, the school can apply sanctions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        So you want to create a phone that has location tracking you can't disable and persists across factory resets. Wonderful.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by mysidia ( 191772 )

          So you want to create a phone that has location tracking you can't disable

          Yes, but it's for Kids only for their convenience to be permitted a Single phone they can bring on campus; only with their parents' consent.

          And that's not even an added feature EVERY cell phone, by the nature of the mobile standards themself, even the phones that are Not smartphones have location tracking Available to the phone and to the cell carrier which you cannot disable based on the advertised location of the Mobile networks

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by flink ( 18449 )

            How about instead we ask teachers to do their jobs and students to be accountable for their actions. Give them detention if they have a phone out of their bag and inform their parents.

            My kid got caught once when she was first given a phone. A phone she only got in the first place because we wanted to let her be able to hang out after school instead of coming straight home. We wanted her to be able to get in touch with us if necessary and payphones are non-existent now.

            She lost phone privileges for two we

            • " How about instead we ask teachers to do their jobs and students to be accountable for their actions "

              I assure you, it's not up to the teachers. They are required to follow policy as set forth by School Administration.

              Any deviation from it and they get written up, reprimanded, fired, etc. They're caught in the middle between hateful parents and a School Administration whose entire goal is to placate hateful parents. ( Think of it as the education version of: The Customer is always right. Regardless of h

    • How easy is it to swap SIMs between phones in the US? OK, what about swapping an eSIM?

      Swapping an eSIM in the US seems to be easy https://www.att.com/support/ar... [att.com] It is however inapplicable here because it requires wifi and the law question requires the dumb phone to be incapable of it.

      However there is an easy solution:

      You buy your kid a pair smartphone/dumbphone that both use a physical SIM. That's not difficult, it excludes some models but that should not make a difference for the level of usage that you kid will make of a smartphone.

    • Buying a second phone for $30 would be great if it didn't need its own phone number and cell plan.

      There is no reason for a phone number and cell plan to cost more than $2/month for a dumb phone, with only voice and text. In my shit hole of an East European country I pay €2/month for a full plan with 5G and voice and don't hit any usage limit. Still, my daughter has her smart phone and carries it to school (hopefully switched to airplane mode) for emergency needs. I guess I could make sure the phone is harmless during school (as in not disturbing the class and learning process) via parental control.

  • It's not an jail it's an school!

    or we can go full jail with.

    With payphones that can only make prepaid and collect calls.

    Sell pop and other snacks at high prices and make the free food be very cheap forcing people to buy food.

    • Re:It's not an jail it's an school! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Thursday May 30, 2024 @03:13PM (#64511459)

      With payphones that can only make prepaid and collect calls.

      In my day, there just weren't any phones, mobile, pay or otherwise. If you absolutely had to make a call, I suppose you could go down to the principal's office and ask the secretary, but I don't remember ever doing that.

      Sell pop and other snacks at high prices and make the free food be very cheap forcing people to buy food.

      At least in elementary school, they didn't sell any food other than those tiny government-subsidized milk cartons. You ate whatever your mom stuffed into your bag.

      We all survived somehow. Now, get off my lawn.

      • We all survived somehow.

        Your nostalgia is rose-tinted.

        Sexual assault on teenage girls has fallen by half since cell phones became ubiquitous.

        A device in her pocket that can dial 911 and/or Daddy when she finds herself in a bad situation is an effective deterrent.

        The NY ban would not only ban phones from classrooms, but from anywhere on school property, which means no phone while walking to school or when going to a friend's house after school.

        • Banning smartphones pretty simple. Turn them off before entering. I think banning during class time should be sufficient. Lunchtime allow. If caught left on then take away, detention to get back. Most will follow with modest deterrence. Mobile devices helpful outside school hours for scheduling especially parent meet up.
        • > The NY ban would not only ban phones from classrooms, but from anywhere on school property, which means no phone while walking to school or when going to a friend's house after school.

          This kind of stuff is getting rolled out here in Australia.
          Unfortunately you have drawn a conclusion (no phone going to school) that has a simple solution as what is happening here.
          Phones are handed in on school arrival and handed back on exit.
          Obviously some rigmarole but I understand that is what "they" are doing.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by flink ( 18449 )

            So you have a queue of 500 students lined up at the end of the day to get their phone back from the office? And the busses are just idling waiting for that to get sorted in the meantime? It think the preferable option is just mandate the phone stays off and in the locker during class time. If the kid breaks the rule, confiscate it and the parent has to come in and get it.

        • We all survived somehow.

          Your nostalgia is rose-tinted.

          Sexual assault on teenage girls has fallen by half since cell phones became ubiquitous.

          I had to get the bosses opinion on this one and that's as the father of two girls with a granddaughter soon to start middle school. They say it's worse, a lot worse. Lies, damn lies, and statistics

          So who am I supposed to believe about this? The school that has a vested interest in "looking good", or the females of my immediate family that go/went to them?

          A device in her pocket that can dial 911 and/or Daddy when she finds herself in a bad situation is an effective deterrent.

          The phone is in no way a deterrent, because where the blood flows the brain goes. It is great for car trouble, been there and done that, or if needed "

      • If you absolutely had to make a call, I suppose you could go down to the principal's office and ask the secretary, but I don't remember ever doing that.

        So if there is a mass shooting (or fire, or earthquake) at the school, students are supposed to quietly queue at that office, waiting to inform parents about their status?

        • They don't need a phone, but they need a gun (sarcasm). Seriously, I know you have this thing called school shootings in the US, but the question is, do you want millions of dumb and disturbed kids because they can't stop looking at tiktok in school, or do you want a a few dozen kids being able to call mommy and say "I'M GONNA DIE AND THAT STASH OF WEED UNDER MY BED IS NOT MINE BYE!" and get shot anyway?

          What if just teachers have phones? I guess one person calling 911 per class room is enough.

        • Wouldn't want the parents to miss out on their chance to get interviewed on the national news while they mill around helplessly outside the barricades across from the school.

    • It's not an jail it's an school!

      I suspect from your grammar you don't know what a school is. But for the record I agree with you. We should allow phones in jail.

    • well, when I was in Highschool, there was only one payphone you could use and you better have a dime if you wanted to use it.

      • Back then I had to walk to school uphill both ways in 8 inches of snow in 100 degree weather

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        Yeah, same here. And now there are 0 payphones because the phone company assumes that everyone has a cell phone. Yes the school could put in a phone for students, but students also go to other places besides school once class is over. Unless you want little Johnny to have 0 autonomy and just get shuttled between school and home.

        • Yeah, when I was in Argentina, my friends who had visited the USA (not all had) would complain that there were no pay telephones here. I, of course, just use my cellphone, as do all the people I know here, but not having them anymore feels like we have lost something

    • It's not an jail it's an school!

      Q: What's the difference between school and jail?

      A: You can talk in jail.

  • Is Texas Instruments a Donor? (Score:3)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Thursday May 30, 2024 @02:49PM (#64511361) Homepage Journal

    Around here they ban smartphones and make kids spend $110 on a TI calculator when a $39 phone and $5 app is either a work-alike or superior. "Don't care".

    My boy has both and prefers HiPER Calc Pro when he has the option.

    • make kids spend $110 on a TI calculator

      That's a stupid policy, but the rationale is that the calculator can't connect to the Internet, so students can't cheat on tests.

      when a $39 phone and $5 app is either a work-alike or superior.

      Every cell phone I've owned had a calculator pre-installed.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by flink ( 18449 )

      Yeah, same in my match class 30 years ago, however no cell phones. However, the teacher just distributed calculators in class for those who couldn't afford their own. They were collected at the end of class. Public schools shouldn't be expecting students to buy $100+ piece of equipment for a regular class.

  • Enforcement (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Wonko the Sane ( 25252 ) * on Thursday May 30, 2024 @02:51PM (#64511367) Journal

    She did not offer specifics on enforcing the prohibition.

    If enacted, this will be enforced in the most dystopian way possible.

    Schools are already unable to enforce behavior rules on students because if they do someone will complain that the disciplinary actions are demographically disproportionate.

    This will end up only enforced when somebody records the crimes of another student and uploads that to social media. The kid reporting the crime will be punished for violating the smartphone rule.

    • If I had points to give you'd get one. This is the whole problem. It may sound great, but you are either frisking the kids when the go to school, or it's like you say.

      In practicality, it does not work.

    • Do you not know how schools work? If the teacher sees a phone in class, it will be confiscated and the student will be punished. It's trivial to enforce, and many schools across the country already enforce such bans.

      Some of you neckbeards really need to leave the basement once in a while.

  • So if I read this correctly, this move is motivated purely because she "has seen addictive algorithms pull in young people"? How many of those young people? Were there other factors involved with those young people's problems? How about collect some data, facts, investigate a wider trend, make an evidence-based decision what would actually be effective and beneficial for the wider populous. I am not arguing whether this is, or is not a solution, only that it appears to be an emotional knee jerk reaction to

    • Re:Substitute emotions for evidence? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fropenn ( 1116699 ) on Thursday May 30, 2024 @03:19PM (#64511479)
      The global scientific evidence is quite clear and overwhelming that use of a cellphone, particularly DURING a class, is detrimental to learning. Why this has to be enforced by a state law (rather than by school boards, schools, teachers, parents) I don't know...but that doesn't change the fact that schools and phones don't mix. https://scholar.google.com/sch... [google.com]
      • Which studies specifically were used to justify this law? I'm not really includes to do the research to justify the law. That should have been done by the politicians pushing the law.

        • That should have been done by the politicians pushing the law

          Hahaha. Unfortunately that's not how politics work in the United States. In fact, in my state, it seems there is a strong inverse relationship between what the scientific evidence says and what the legislators are passing.

          Sometimes the legislators will point to a single, non-replicated, misinterpreted, wildly inaccurate "study" (see, for example, the now widely debunked "trans is a social contagion study" https://publications.aap.org/a... [aap.org]), which is worse because it gives their supporters a way to claim t

        • That should be specified in the bill. If not, the committee working on it might ask about it. It might even hold public hearings, where the citizens can ask this question. In case you vote in the state of New York, you can attend such a hearing and ask the question yourself. The whole process is explained here [nysenate.gov].

  • We've started doing it in NZ (Score:3)

    by Kryptonut ( 1006779 ) on Thursday May 30, 2024 @02:58PM (#64511397)
    Hasn't been as bad as some people would expect. Some students are even positive about the change as it has helped for them to reconnect with other students.

    • Hasn't been as bad as some people would expect.

      Happened in a few countries in Europe too. Wife's a teacher, said it has made a HUGE difference. The problem was the school dabbled in a ban before the government introduced it, but then the students didn't want to go there and chose (or convinced their parents to choose) other schools which saw an almost instant decline in quality of students (she works at a fancy school). Now that there's a national ban things have returned to normal.

      Cell-phones are a huge distraction. Kids just having them in the room di

  • "Parents want the ability to have some form of connection in an emergency situation."

    What, exactly, do they think that having SMS is going to do for them?

    • "Parents want the ability to have some form of connection in an emergency situation."

      What, exactly, do they think that having SMS is going to do for them?

      I never had a phone. My parents could still contact me in an emergency because (and this is true) my school had a phone number and a receptionist who could relay a message in an emergency.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        I never had a phone. My parents could still contact me in an emergency because (and this is true) my school had a phone number and a receptionist who could relay a message in an emergency.

        And you never went anywhere public after school where they couldn't call you? If you did, did you perhaps use a payphone to call them? A payphone which no longer exists because cell phones are ubiquitous now?

        • Never used a payphone as a kid. I knew my way home, and on rare occassion, I just had to use my two legs to walk home. For the really paranoid parent, I didn't see anything about banning Airtags on your children. But why?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by flink ( 18449 )

            Airtags are one way, and I don't want to track my kid's every move. I want them to have autonomy. That autonomy necessarily involves communication. If there is an unforeseen event or need a pickup, they can call me. Not every kid has a home within walking distance from school. Or if they want to do something that is a grey area, I'd like them to be able to call me and ask permission.

        • We DID manage to survive before the World was addicted to being connected 24/7.

          The costs of being so much of a distraction ( not just to themselves, but everyone around them ) vs their usefulness overall has to be carefully considered.

          While IN class, kids do not need to have access to their phones.

  • So parents are anxious about staying connected in case of a school mass-shooting? What about the students that are constantly being flooded with shit and overwhelmed by anxiety because of these stunt magnets (in all meanings). How else do these kids learn to become an hero*?

    *an hero: waste a few minutes of your life to learn about the psychology of mass-shootings. It's really depressing just be prepared for that before you do.

  • I can see how the administration wants these gone. Just last week a friend (not in New York) said that at her daughter's school a video of a teacher hitting a student got out. It bounced around Facebook until the parents saw it and called the cops. Oops.

    • Why did they post the video to Facebook first, rather than taking it directly to the police and the school board?

    • In all fairness, how many videos are out there of the students beating on the teachers, bus drivers, staff, each other, etc ?

      I can't blame teachers for losing their cool with how kids act these days. Kids will absolutely throw down on staff because there are almost zero consequences for the kid and school administration won't back their staff.

  • I often thought that there was a phalanx of adults with nothing better to do than think up weak excuses for making kids' lives less. They thought that we would become irradiated from X-rays from color TV's, or nearsighted from any TV. The ways to make life more tedious were innumerable, the perpetrators were very tenacious.

    I still think so.

    • X-ray radiation from color TV sets was real, especially in earlier models with vacuum tube HV rectifier and shunt regulator. The HV components were typically enclosed in a metal shield, but there was leakage through ventilation holes. Direction of radiation was from the bottom of the set, with ventilation holes also in the bottom cover of the cabinet.

  • Then vs Now (Score:5, Funny)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Thursday May 30, 2024 @04:18PM (#64511649) Homepage

    Teacher then: You gotta learn this, its not like you're gonna walk around with a calculator in your pocket 24/7!

    Teachers now: NO, you're not allowed to walk around with globally connected super computer in your pocket 24/7!!!!11111

  • Any phones, smart or dumb, are banned in France's schools for kids up to 9th grade.

    I did not cause big trouble after all. Kids complain they want their phones, but they survive the experience.

  • ... social interaction ...

    A smart phone means a lack of face-to-face meetings and natural conversation, which is definitely a bad thing. Having telephony/internet glued to your hand means more messages to other people: That may be cyber-bullying and Q-anon conspiracies which is a different issue.

    ... have some form of connection ...

    Every self-obsessed dickhead starting a phone-tree to see which of their family members feels bad, causes the network to collapse: It means first-responders can't organize across different sites.

    ... an emergency situation.

    If your precious snowflake needs your prote

  • Either ban them, or, turn the classrooms into faraday cages. If parents really really need to reach their child, CALL THE OFFICE! If the stupid child is actually IN class where they are suppose to be, the office can reach them in minutes!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by flink ( 18449 )

      Either ban them, or, turn the classrooms into faraday cages.

      That's idiotic and takes away accountability from teachers and students. The teacher can tell the kid to put the phone away, give the kid detention, and take the phone away if there are repeat offenses. Make the parents come in to get it back, and they will (hopefully) discipline the kid at home as well. Having inappropriate items in a classroom is nothing new, even when they were allowed in school. Hell, I used to get in trouble for have a scifi novel in my lap when I was supposed to be doing social stu

      • The ideas here are presented to HELP kids actually learn something in school vs just sitting there playing on their phones for eight hours.

        Kids are graduating dumber than ever as it is.

        I get you want to go full " think of the children " and protect them from everything ( just in case ) but you have to realize that the presence of smartphones in class are detrimental not only to the one, but the entire class as a whole from a distration / disruption point of view.

        They can bring the phones to school if they w

  • Until an active shooting takes place, you are in the bathroom, and your phone is locked away inside the teacher's desk. How about good old-fashioned discipline and harsh penalties for using the phone in class or other inappropriate school functions? Let's stop being afraid of lawsuits, and oversensitivity, and all that garbage and make things work for a change?

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