College-Level Minecraft-Based CS Courses Approved for US High School Students

Long-time Slashdot reader theodp writes: "This is truly game-changing news!" exclaims Minecraft Education's Laylah Bulman in a LinkedIn post targeting high school CS educators. "We're thrilled to announce that the AP Computer Science Principles with Minecraft and MakeCode Curriculum has officially been approved by The College Board! And we are offering free professional learning for our inaugural cohort this summer...!

"Minecraft's highly engaging environment makes complex coding concepts relatable and fun, fostering a deeper understanding and encouraging broader participation. Ready to empower your students? Don't miss this opportunity!"

Recent Edsurge articles (sponsored by Minecraft Education) touted how Minecraft has found its way into computer science and other curricula in New York City and Broward County (Florida), two of the nation's largest school districts... Microsoft-backed nonprofit Code.org has also pushed Minecraft-themed CS tutorials into the nation's classrooms via its wildly-popular annual Hour of Code events since 2015, a year after Microsoft paid $2.5B to buy Minecraft. ("The best way to introduce anyone to STEM or get their curiosity going on, it's Minecraft," declared Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella at the time). Minecraft-related learning initiatives have also received millions of dollars in grants from the U.S. Department of Education and the National Science Foundation.

Scam

[The Cat]

All this is - is taking public education cash and shoving it in Microsoft's pocket.

Students will leave these classes without one fucking clue about computers.

Re:Scam

[jhoegl]

What evidence do you have to back that up?

I have a brother teaching kids using this platform in High school, so I would like to know how your opinion on this without proof should change his hard work and curriculum.

Re:

[The Cat]

What evidence do you have to back that up?

Microsoft owns all the rights to Minecraft. Which means they can bill for royalties against the art, trademarks, name, logo, gameplay, binaries, install programs, servers, hardware, consulting, shipping, training, textbooks and the test materials.

Forever.

Re:

[newbie_fantod]

...so no evidence that

Students will leave these classes without one fucking clue

Thanks for making that clear

Re: Scam

[zkiwi34]

So... what is someone actually supposed to learn from Minecraft? That still baffles me.

Re:

[istartedi]

If the kids can't break free of the platform later, that's the teacher's fault. If they sorted blocks with Python and MineCraft they should be able to recognize the pattern and sort stuff on other platforms, with other languages. Teaching the particulars of the tool should be incidental. It's the concepts that should be really taught.

Re:

[The Cat]

Teaching the particulars of the tool should be incidental. It's the concepts that should be really taught.

Good. So we can dump Microsoft and lose nothing.

Re:

[sarren1901]

Oh no, you'll then steer students towards microsoft tools post minecraft coding. Schools are a spectacular way to teach vendor lock in or otherwise help with loyalty to a vendor. If all your kids are taught Microsoft solutions then that's what they will take with them elsewhere.

Got to expose those young minds to your stuff as young as possible and minecraft helps Microsoft do this.

It's like smoking or joining the military. Get them young while they still know everything!

Re:

[jhoegl]

My experience was different than your assumptions.

Which is why I know its B.S. assumptions about people.

Re:

[HiThere]

To be fair, people said that when compiler languages replaced assembler. And they were right. And it happened again with the move from C to Java, and then to Python. Most Python programmers don't have much idea what a bit is. But many of them can do things I never dreamed of doing when I was in high school.

That said, I consider minecraft a bad choice.

Re:

[jhoegl]

Were they right?
I learned about bit, byte, and baud in school.
After Assembly, and during C++.
I also learned about different compilers, dabbled in java (hated it), and moved on to C#.
The point here is that school helped me expand my horizons after I decided I wanted to go to school to learn.
Base coding is learned through Engineering schools, or even buying kits to learn how a breadboard works.
I find peoples assumptions of others because that wasnt how they learned to be short sighted and self indulg

Re:Scam

[ShanghaiBill]

All this is - is taking public education cash and shoving it in Microsoft's pocket.

Actually, it's the other way around. MS is putting cash into education.

Students will leave these classes without one fucking clue about computers.

When my son was in middle school, he enrolled in a summer class that taught how to write Minecraft extensions in Python.

It was a great class. The kids had a blast and learned a lot about coding.

Disclaimer: I say all this as someone who generally hates Microsoft.

Re:

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

MS is putting cash into education

Oh yeah, it's just fabulous... Just what we need: private companies pumping propaganda into students' heads under the guise of education.

Re:

[christoban]

You are aware tech companies have been doing that since Apple and IBM in the 80s?

Re:

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Yes. I wasn't implying it was new, I'm implying it's wrong.

Re:

[christoban]

What kind of propaganda did you see in the past? What are you expecting?

I used Apple+ computers and IBM PCs in the 80s and 90s, and I never saw any propaganda other than maybe "use our products please, and get used to them!"

Re:

[unrtst]

IMO, it's hard to put a right and wrong on this - it's not that clear cut, but there is certainly need for some balance.

If companies weren't pumping money into the school systems (ex. via Apple's program from the 80's where schools could get computers with grocery store receipts and such, or Chromebooks making huge inroads with lots of free/cheap/subsidized stuff, or MS leveraging Minecraft as both a means to get and keep kids interested in programming projects and as a means of keeping their foot in the do

Re:

[sarren1901]

I was under the impression that modern day students won't use pen and pencil or dead tree bark for anything. Which is sad and also increases the fragility of the overall system.

It's why I would love the Internet to just not exist for a week. Just to watch everything melt down. It would be epic.

Re:

[christoban]

This is why I keep several TB of downloaded TV shows on thumb drives. We're gonna need Trek and The Sopranos, or kids are gonna think wandering minstrels reciting Hamlet are as good as it gets and just give up.

Re:

[unrtst]

I was under the impression that modern day students won't use pen and pencil or dead tree bark for anything.

This is an over generalization. It also missed the point. In far too many schools, teachers don't have the supplies they need, let alone students. Ex. Markers for the whiteboard. When some company offers anything for free, or for some performative BS like collecting grocery store receipts, don't expect them to turn it down while no one else is funding them.

Saying that companies pumping cash/goods into the education system is wrong doesn't address the problem nor alternatives. Yeah... they're taking advantag

Re:

[ShanghaiBill]

Just what we need: private companies pumping propaganda into students' heads under the guise of education.

When my son took the class, there was no propaganda.

All of the kids were already Minecraft users. If they weren't, they wouldn't be taking the class.

Nearly all of the focus was on Python, which is not controlled by Microsoft.

Re:

[gwjgwj]

"On 12 November 2020 Van Rossum announced that he was coming out of retirement to join the Developer Division at Microsoft. He currently holds the title Distinguished Engineer at Microsoft."

Re:

[The Cat]

Actually, it's the other way around. MS is putting cash into education.

Communist propaganda. Doesn't work like that. Sorry.

When my son was in middle school, he enrolled in a summer class that taught how to write Minecraft extensions in Python.

Great. Did anyone leave that class knowing what pointers are, how they work and why they are important? Anyone in that class learn how to use a linker? Anyone learn the difference between polymorphism and interfaces? Arguments passed by value and/or reference? Constructors? Static casts? Network protcols? Device drivers?

No? Then all they learned to do is write canned game extensions with a scripting language while being told they were learning computer s

Re:

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Great. Did anyone leave that class knowing what pointers are, how they work and why they are important?

Who cares about that? By the time the kid is old enough to hit the job market, they won't be any jobs left. The only thing you'll need to know about pointers, C, Python or anything else is how to ask ChatGPT to do it for you.

He might as well enjoy himself today, because making painful efforts to learn anything seriously in the hope of getting a better job later is not a productive use of a kid's best years these days.

Re:

[ShanghaiBill]

Did anyone leave that class knowing what pointers are

Pointers are not an entry-level subject and do not belong in a middle school programming class.

Many programming languages get by just fine without pointers.

Anyone in that class learn how to use a linker? Anyone learn the difference between polymorphism and interfaces? Arguments passed by value and/or reference? Constructors? Static casts? Network protcols? Device drivers?

None of these belong in an entry-level class.

Quality of education is not measured by how much of a blast the kids had.

Kids learn much better when they're having fun.

Re:

[The Cat]

Pointers are not an entry-level subject and do not belong in a middle school programming class.

That's fine if you want your kids to be entry-level.

I don't.

Re:

[Luckyo]

I mean sure, but is it actually a paid program?

Microsoft does allow educational use of a lot of its software for free, or really cheap. And in some cases even provides support for free software when it's for educational purposes, meaning Microsoft pays educational organizations to use their software.

And "educational games" being actually fun and educational has proven to be a really hard thing to get right. Most of the educational games are less fun than traditional classes. And those that are actually fun

Re:

[The Cat]

Microsoft does allow educational use of a lot of its software for free, or really cheap.

Uh huh. Microsoft needs to get the fuck out. And stay out.

Re:

[Luckyo]

Is this because Microsoft is doing a bad thing, or is it because you have personal animus of Microsoft?

Because for me, it's the latter but I'm a well functioning adult so I can separate personal animus towards entity from specific actions of that same entity.

Re:

[HiThere]

Monopoly ownership of educational media is a very bad thing.

That it's Microsoft makes it worse than average, but only by a slight amount. Most of the abuse is covered by the term "monopoly".

Re:

[Luckyo]

This is more of the blinding anger that obfuscates self evident reality in the fog of red haze. Microsoft doesn't own the media. Microsoft doesn't produce educational materials.

They produce tools with which educational content can be displayed, modified and so on. This does not give them ownership rights to said media.

Again, it's ok to have personal animus. Microsoft as a monopolist has done many fucked up things. This is not one of those things. And it's ok to not be blinded by rage and recognising that.

Re:

[sarren1901]

Umm, Microsoft does OWN the media in this case. They own everything the school is using minus the hardware it runs on. The school is licensed to use this software but they certainly can't make any changes or modifications that are not inherently built into the software already.

So yes, Microsoft owns the rights to said media and is letting schools use it for cost or sometimes nearly free. Giving your stuff away for free means it's easily accessible. Then once the kids become adults, that's what they know and

Re:

[Luckyo]

That's not how copyright works. At all. Just because teacher writes up a lesson plan in Word doesn't mean that Microsoft owns that lesson plan.

Reminder: software running the media and media are two completely different things. I suspect you mean software running things, and not media.

Re:

[sarren1901]

Ahh, okay I misinterpreted your post. Yes, I agree, if a teacher creates a lesson plan using Word, the word document isn't Microsoft's property (yet).

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Students will leave these classes without one fucking clue about computers.

This is an AP approved course. I highly doubt this would happen. If it did, the colleges will be complaining.

Re:

[theodp]

According to The Collge Board, 1,862 colleges give credit for AP CS A [collegeboard.org] (Java language-based), while only 1,295 colleges give credit for AP CSP [collegeboard.org] (language agnostic). Dubbed 'Coding Lite' [nytimes.com] by the NY Times, some sites rate AP CSP as the easiest AP course [examstudyexpert.com] of all.

Re: Scam

[oldnuskeet]

Redstone mechanics is not, or and and gates and people build computers inside Minecraft from logic gates, you can also create all kinds of control circuits with them for devices. With mods there are thing like computers in game that you can write lua code on and they control signals in game to automate things. It can be a great learning tool. Hell, I learned Lua and apis trying to control stuff inside Minecraft with the computer mod and certainly found myself applying logic gates schematics I had found onli

Re:

[Black Parrot]

I have a doctorate in the same field!

I can analyze the games from every angle, but I can't win when I play.

Another Simpsons prediction

[jacks smirking reven]

"What's the atomic weight of bolognum?"

https://youtu.be/pohXWbMrXZI?s... [youtu.be]

By the Way

[The Cat]

While all this is going on Microsoft will be taking regular screen captures of everything happening on every student's computer all day forever.

Coming Soon...

[Roger W Moore]

...history courses taught using Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, urban planning with City Skylines, engineering with Satisfactory, galactic astrophysics with Elite Dangerous and physics with KSP (only if they have not cancelled it). In fact, perhaps companies can start hiring peolpe who've just played a certain list of games instead of having "degrees" from for-profit colleges. If this is the new standard for a "college" education then it's hard to see much difference.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Roger W Moore]

I was joking but part of me cannot help thinking given how crazy the world is these days how long before some dodgy for-profit college actually comes up with a degree program based on playing "educational" games?

A masters in Tetris is next.

[Sakuta]

Then a PHD in Pong.

Re:

[Mirnotoriety]

Then a diploma in reading and chat.speak

Dumbed down lego.education

[Mirnotoriety]

Writing code specifically for the Minecraft API sounds a bit limiting.

Hoo Boy

[raminf]

Thanks a lot. It was hard enough kicking my middle schooler off the computer. Now this.

Hooray for minetest!

[davidone]

This is good news for all us minetest lovers

Re:

[sarren1901]

Just wait. In the future online will be "real" and offline will be the fake shit. SMH.

Wish I was already in my 80s so I didn't have to continue to watch our society get worse.

There is a college-level Minecraft course?

[chas.williams]

I really don't understand education these days. We used to play games to get a break from the curriculum.

Minecraft "programing"

[bjwest]

This is something that should be in middle school. High school students should be learning Python, Java or some other actual language that will teach them to program productively, not learning how to use a game scripting language.