UK Nears 1 Million EV Chargers (theguardian.com) 150
According to lobby group ChargeUK, there were 930,000 electric car chargers in the UK at the end of June, with the majority residing in homes and at businesses. Only about 65,000 public chargers are available. The Guardian reports: The ChargeUK analysis showed that a new public charger was installed every 25 minutes in the spring quarter as companies raced to keep up with demand. Companies installed 5,100 public chargers during the second quarter of 2024, according to the data company Zapmap. [...] There are 1.1 million electric vehicles on UK roads, including 167,000 cars sold in the first half of this year, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders lobby group. That is a 9% increase compared with the previous year, although the share of electric sales only increased marginally to 16.6%, as relatively higher upfront prices and rising interest rates deterred some buyers.
ChargeUK's analysis, which was carried out by the thinktank New AutoMotive, suggested that the private sector was confident it could meet a target set by the previous Conservative government of 300,000 public charge points by 2030. "In little more than a decade, the UK's charging sector has grown to become a major player in the green economy, providing the infrastructure that more than a million EV drivers rely on today and scaling fast to deliver the charging needed through to 2030 and beyond," said Vicky Read, the chief executive of ChargeUK.
ChargeUK's analysis, which was carried out by the thinktank New AutoMotive, suggested that the private sector was confident it could meet a target set by the previous Conservative government of 300,000 public charge points by 2030. "In little more than a decade, the UK's charging sector has grown to become a major player in the green economy, providing the infrastructure that more than a million EV drivers rely on today and scaling fast to deliver the charging needed through to 2030 and beyond," said Vicky Read, the chief executive of ChargeUK.
Not surprising (Score:3)
Without the ability to charge at home, the cost per mile to drive an EV can end up being comparable to that of an ICE vehicle. It makes sense that the majority of chargers would be installed in homes.
I'm not sure what the situation is like in the UK, but in my neck of the woods EA charges around $0.57 per kWh, which ends up being about $0.16 per mile (roughly estimating about 3.5 miles per kWh in my Chevy Bolt, since air conditioning and central Florida's 65-70MPH roads take their toll on efficiency). Since gas is about $3.59/gal at the moment, that's equivalent in cost to an ICE vehicle getting 22 MPG. Charging at home, however, knocks my per mile cost down to $0.04, which would require an ICE vehicle that achieves close to 90MPG to reach cost parity.
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One thing we generally don't have in the US is time of generation cost variability either. Everywhere I've lived (East Coast) there's a winter plan and a summer plan with specific rates. It's cheaper but we can't shift our usage to access cheap and variable price times like over night or high sun/wind generation. Our prices have overnight/low, mid-tier and peak rates that are fixed for 6 months at a time, regardless of the actual cost to produce that power.
And compared to England, vast swaths of the US h
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One thing we generally don't have in the US is time of generation cost variability either.
"generally"? At least 10% of the population have the option (for now, eventually, it will be forced on everyone) of time-of-day pricing. This is in California.
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So 90% don't have it. You're right generally is the wrong term. "Super massive majority" would be the correct term.
"time of day" pricing isn't real-time generation cost pricing. In UK, prices change almost hourly so a glut of renewable can send prices literally negative.
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California was merely an example. So, other states:
Alabama
Arkansas (large customers)
Florida (perhaps not all utilities)
Georgia
Illinois
[do I need to go on?]
So it's much more than just California.
https://www.energy.gov/femp/de... [energy.gov]
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Again, "time of day" isn't cost of generation variability. The *vast* majority of US customers don't have cost of generation/real time variability. I'm sure some states offer plans with that, but you'd need to show actual numbers to prove your point. the 'standard' plans cover most people and aren't that.
VA has Peak, off peak and night time of day pricing. But those prices are *fixed* for the entire summer season and for the entire winter season.
In the UK, there's a day to day forecast of what the pri
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You would think solar would be popular there to offset the cost but when I lived in Scotland for 2 years I recall sunny days were rare.
Solar works fine in cloudy weather too. The payback period would be a bit longer, except for the fact that electricity costs so much that it works in your favour again.
There are plenty of countries with absolutely miserable weather with wide spread adoption of solar for this reason. E.g. Netherlands. Solar is so widespread here that electricity companies are starting to charge certain users to feed into the grid, rather than the other way around. (Batteries are going to become really popular soon).
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ICE cost needs to factor in the disaster spend related to climate change. EVs, are *slightly* better CO2 wise even when fully charged with fossil fuels power as electric motors are multiple times more efficient.
They get better and better as the grid gets greener.
The fossil fuel industry built the modern world...and the on coming disaster. Only fair they have to pay to fix it.
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EVs, are *slightly* better CO2 wise even when fully charged with fossil fuels power as electric motors are multiple times more efficient.
That is understating the case! EVs are about twice as good cradle to grave as ICEVs are even if charged purely with coal due to that efficiency, reaching parity at 70,000 miles. The MOST efficient ICEs in cars are running 40% efficiency occasionally, and most of the time are far less efficient. Ironically, they are most efficient while accelerating moderately. The least efficient electric motors used in even vaguely modern and professional EVs are over 92% efficient, and they reach that efficiency most of t
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Without the ability to charge at home, the cost per mile to drive an EV can end up being comparable to that of an ICE vehicle. It makes sense that the majority of chargers would be installed in homes.
I'm not sure what the situation is like in the UK, but in my neck of the woods EA charges around $0.57 per kWh, which ends up being about $0.16 per mile (roughly estimating about 3.5 miles per kWh in my Chevy Bolt, since air conditioning and central Florida's 65-70MPH roads take their toll on efficiency). Since gas is about $3.59/gal at the moment, that's equivalent in cost to an ICE vehicle getting 22 MPG. Charging at home, however, knocks my per mile cost down to $0.04, which would require an ICE vehicle that achieves close to 90MPG to reach cost parity.
Thank you for the great detail, but most ICE vs EV arguments still die on the showroom floor. A $0.04 cost per mile becomes quite irrelevant if your EV monthly car payment is 2x compared to the ICE vehicle. A $30K Corolla getting 35MPG is going to compete rather well against a $60K EV when looking at TCO. Especially when the price of the replacement battery can be the cost of another car.
I find it quite odd that EVs are still making this comparison argument about “fuel” costs when the cost of
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You talked about TCO and you also talked about monthly payments. But monthly payments suggests leases, and EV leases are now pretty compelling in the US — comparable to ICE. Sure there are still cheaper new ICE vehicles out there, but you can get a cheap EV lease now. Replacement battery costs are a complete red herring. Do you figure out a replacement engine cost for an ICE vehicle? No, because engines don’t fail often enough to be worth accounting for, and neither do EV batteries. It’s j
Re: Not surprising (Score:2)
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Yes — of course. But my point is, if you’re already going for a car loan, you’re already looking to manage monthly payments, and thus leases are worth considering. Especially for tech that’s improving fast.
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Very definitely big pros and cons to each way of buying a car!
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Yes — of course. But my point is, if you’re already going for a car loan, you’re already looking to manage monthly payments, and thus leases are worth considering. Especially for tech that’s improving fast.
Greeeeat. Can’t wait to see the look on all the EV fans faces when they are the unique citizens being hit with a new environmental cleanup tax, due to millions of abused-and-used leased EVs sitting in landfills that no one wants.
Did I mention you’re still at the mercy of those who charge 2x more over the ICE price, to replace the proprietary battery pack? Guy in Canada just got a $61K battery replacement bill for an EV that cost $60K new, forcing insurance to scrap a car not even 2 years old.
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These fantasies you have, do they bring you much relief?
And absolutely loving your completely unsourced story about a 61k replacement battery bill for a 2 year old 60k car. Totes makes sense. Because for a start, 2 year old cars definitely don’t come with a fucking warranty, so you always have to pay battery replacement costs in full. It sounds like an incredibly realistic story and not at all like a weird kind of wank-fantasy that an anti-EV person just made up.
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You talked about TCO and you also talked about monthly payments. But monthly payments suggests leases, and EV leases are now pretty compelling in the US — comparable to ICE.
Monthly payments suggest less than 1% of society have the cash to buy any vehicle outright. The considerably higher price of a EV tends to imply a “cheap” lease is relative. Meaning my ICE loan payment for a product that will eventually be 100% paid off, is likely equal to an EV lease payment due to the premium EV price. (If it’s not, thank government subsidies you’re also paying for via taxes)
Sure there are still cheaper new ICE vehicles out there, but you can get a cheap EV lease now. Replacement battery costs are a complete red herring. Do you figure out a replacement engine cost for an ICE vehicle?
I didn’t ever have to worry about replacing an entire engine, because even that wo
Expect a big jump up over next three years (Score:3)
The new UK government is clearly intent on unblocking planning and other issues that hold back growth, as demonstrated by the new approvals of solar farms, the change to the onshore wind regime, the housing announcements etc. They are keenly aware that grid connections are a complete ballache for EV charging operators and so I expect them to unpick some of the detailed problems in the next year or so, which should do quite a lot to boost the pipeline and get charger numbers growing faster still.
FWIW, I would like them to go further and build some policy to enable more solar roof / battery / charger combos for car parks, and to encourage destination parking at scale (ie dozens or hundreds of chargers in car parks, not three, five or ten in one corner). I want to be able to drive to a different city, park in a car park for the day and charge while I’m there, without having to come back and unplug to enable someone else to use a scarce resource. That friction needs to go, because at the moment, it’s painful enough that I use fast en route chargers instead, even though they’re more expensive and it’s a stop I don’t need to make. This is an issue for me maybe three times a year, but still, it would be good to get it sorted, because I’m definitely not the only driver who wants frictionless park-and-charge.
In comparison in size...... (Score:2)
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Oregon is smaller than Norway, and has a similar population. Yet Norway has lots of chargers and Oregon does not. Turns out that policy makes a big difference. To be fair, Oregon is a pretty damn rural population, more than Norway, but there’s 13 towns with populations above 50k, and Skien in Norway has a population of 50k and 20 charging stations, each with several chargers. So it can be done even in smaller towns.
And obviously, most US residents don’t live in states like Oregon. A third of the
Location, location, location... (Score:2)
Instead of learning that there are 65k individual chargers, I'd like to know how many unique locations there are across the country and how that translates to area coverage, what's the distribution.
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Fortunately, all that information is available to you. There are currently 33,829 locations. You can also find lots of information on area coverage, distribution, charger types, etc.
https://www.zap-map.com/ev-sta... [zap-map.com]
More granularity here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]
Can anyone explain what a public charger is? (Score:2)
Because if no one owns it, then who collects the money that people pay to use it? Or, is it free? I'm so lost, but then again, I don't use electric cars because they're a waste of energy.
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I know this is going to be a really tricky concept for you, but a public charger is one that the public can use. A charger that the public can use without paying any money would be a “free public charger”. Here’s the really mind-blowing bit: public chargers can be owned and operated by private companies! Imagine that, a single idea that includes both the words public and private at the same time!! This will be incredibly confusing, I know, so do have a good sit down and try to recover from
Re:Definitions please. (Score:4, Informative)
Such chargers likely come with the vehicle and are little more than an extension cord with about as much electronics in it as a pocket calculator.
All L1/L2 EVSEs are relatively simple devices that just communicate what sort of mains power is available to the vehicle and perform some safety checks before engaging a contactor which energizes the connector. The actual part that most people think of as a charger, which is tasked at converting the voltage to what is required to charge the traction battery and monitoring the state of charge, is in the vehicle itself.
That's why at the end of the day when someone complains there aren't enough "EV chargers" for widespread EV adoption at places like apartments and rental homes, what they really mean is that there's no convenient place to plug in an EVSE. It's only when you get into L3 DC fast charging where there's some actual major electrical infrastructure required, rather than what basically amounts to installing the same sort of circuit you'd use for an electric range.
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Informative)
You know they use 240 volt lines in the UK standard, right, astroturfer?
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yeah he's a troll du jour around here these days. semblance of facts but doesn't actually know anything substantial and is pretty quickly exposed when pressed.
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240 volt lines in the UK standard
It used to be 240V, but it is 230V in the UK today. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Informative)
"It used to be 240V, but it is 230V in the UK today. "
No, but...
The standard changed to be 230v +10% -6% from 240v +-6% (to align with the EU), but the actual voltage at the plug remained the same at 240v.
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Yep, I agree the EU wide standard is 230v, but in practice if you measure the actual voltage in the UK, you are more likely than not going to find its a little over 240v, often closer to 250v around here. All I was pointing out was that at least in the UK the standard was the only thing that changed, not the actual thing referred to by the standard. And its not 220-240, its 216-253v. the higher number caused a lot of non EU imports that were built expecting 220v to fail quickly.
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Informative)
You just made up shit to make yourself feel better. The UK has not expanded its public network mainly through lamp post chargers. There’s been plenty of fast chargers deployed and we haven’t come close to crashing our grid. The stats are all out there, and they absolutely don’t show that the growth in the UK’s charging infrastructure is down to lamp post chargers, not even close to being accurate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]
Also, lamp post chargers are great, they’re much cheaper for local authorities to deploy than other types of charger, and it’s a competitive market and so you can rest your frazzled little head back down and stop fretting about corrupt procurement.
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I said: “there’s been *plenty” of fast chargers deployed”. Your post is really just an argument about whether 11,590 is or isn’t plenty. I happen to think it is. But then, I’ve been driving EVs since 2015, and for the first four years, there were fewer than 12k public chargers of any type, never mind 50kW+.
(Also, it never makes sense to think of 0 to 100% charging for public fast chargers, because the use case is 10 to 80%. The last 20% is too slow, and you don’t le
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Informative)
how the fuck did you not crash your power grids within days?
Because that's a non-issue that has been debunked over and over.
But let's go through the numbers once again for the mathematically impaired:
1. America consumes 4.1 trillion kwh of electricity annually.
2. Americans drove 3.2 trillion miles last year.
3. A typical EV uses 0.3 kwh per mile.
(3.2 * 0.3) / 4.1 = 0.23
So, if 100% of all the cars switched to EVs tomorrow, electricity demand would go up ... 23%.
Since EVs mostly charge at night when demand is otherwise low, the current grid can easily accommodate the load.
Of course, the switch will happen over decades, and EVs can already auto-adapt to troughs in demand and, in the future, will be able to feed back into the grid to stabilize supply.
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Informative)
You know this is basically irrelevant when calling out the liars for bullshitting deployment statistics, right?
No, it is not. Even a basic 16A 240V charger can do what amounts to the average UK daily driving distance in under 2 hours. But there's more (which you won't read):
They likely removed the metal cover plate off a lamppost outlet that was already installed and hung a sign over it that reads âoepublic charging stationâ.
In many cases, yes. At least round my way that's how ev owners charge because we live in terraced houses with no driveways. But anyway since lamp posts aren't wired on simple domestic spurs they are actually rated at substantially higher current than 16A. One of the manufacturers offers 5kW (25A) ones, the other 7kW (32A). There are both on my street.
Fucked up part will be finding taxpayers paid tens of thousands to some corrupt contractor to âoedeployâ this charging network while bragging about their progress in headline clickbait.
You don't even know how the UK works and how it's brand of fuckedupness works. How about just learning some shit before having strong opinions?
You basically assume that everywhere is (a) equally fucked up and (b) fucked up in exactly the same way as America. It isn't.
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You basically assume that everywhere is (a) equally fucked up and (b) fucked up in exactly the same way as America. It isn't.
It's just the time tested American way, shoot first think later.
Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
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Most people care about the charging time for their average drive, but for the longest drive you're looking at longer, maybe 6-8 hours. Still not an issue for people that just plugin at night
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Ok but who cares about average daily drive? It's the longest ones i care about.
This is just mindless nitpicking/moving the goalposts at light speed. No, I did not randomly address some points that were in your head when I was replying to the GP (not you).
But you know, most people, most of the time care about the day to day charging. Yeah yeah the cannonball run obsessed Americans who haul vast amounts of meat all weekend every weekend have different needs. For the other 99.9999% of the population in the UK
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I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you are trying to make here.
The GP was sure that lamp post chargers don't count for some reason. I claim they do. Your response is "ah but what if there isn't one there??".
That supports my point. If you're worried about the lack of L2 chargers then clearly L2 chargers are sufficient, and so they count quite reasonably towards the number of installed chargers.
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Something went strange with my comments.
Fair enough. Happens to us all.
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How is a charger on "business premises" distinct from a "public charger"?
Logically that it is on the campus of a business and installed for employee use -- who knows if that's any employee or if it's a perk reserved for certain management positions, though. But it's not a charger any Joe Schmo can just drive up to and use.
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Logically that it is on the campus of a business and installed for employee use
Often, it's also for customer use.
But it's not a charger any Joe Schmo can just drive up to and use.
Often, the chargers are available for general use even when the business is closed.
My local grocery store and the local medical center have "Chargepoint" chargers in their parking lots that are available 24/7.
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How is an "EV charger" defined for this calculation?
Are you really that dull? It's a kiosk with a large cable and a method to accept payment. It's not a fucking outlet on a lamppost.
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How is an "EV charger" defined for this calculation?
Are you really that dull? It's a kiosk with a large cable and a method to accept payment. It's not a fucking outlet on a lamppost.
An outlet on a lamp post would be a lot simpler and cheaper to install.
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There’s thousands of these in the UK, as well as bollard charging, rapids, etc etc.
https://ubitricity.com/en/char... [ubitricity.com]
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You’re completely wrong on this.
The analysis was about *all* dedicated EV chargers in the UK, including but not limited to rapid chargers of the type you’re referring to, home wall boxes (the vast majority) and yes — lamp post chargers, too, which are an important part of the mix in the UK and are going to grow rapidly because they rapidly and scalably address charging needs in areas with little off-street parking without the need for dedicated new infrastructure, allowing the latter to b
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Are you really that dull? It's a kiosk with a large cable and a method to accept payment. It's not a fucking outlet on a lamppost.
Isn't it? My street probably has around 10 of those sockets on lamp posts. They are EV charger sockets, as in IEC Type 2, which are accessible to anyone who pay in the required app. They fit the bill, but I don't know what the GP is whinging about.
Re:Definitions please. (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally I think the "65,000 public chargers" is the only number worth discussing as home charging is a given for those that can charge off street at home.
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To understand why the focus is on the 930k number, you need to understand that discussions of charging in the UK have *over* focused on the 65k, because British journos are typically lazy and dim, and it’s dead easy to write an article saying 1m EVs but only 65k chargers. So they don’t really get that the vast majority of charging happens at home. This analysis is designed to refocus their attention on the fact that vanishingly few EV drivers in the UK today experience charger anxiety, because a
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Personally I think the "65,000 public chargers" is the only number worth discussing as home charging is a given for those that can charge off street at home.
You come to this conclusion based on your view of the world in New Zealand, and it's the same conclusion you could draw in America and Australia too. But the reality is the other number is *very* important in Europe specifically where a significant portion of the population do not have off street parking.
More than half of the population lives in terraced housing or apartments making discussing how many can charge at home very important, especially in population centres where that number is way more than hal
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While still not impressive I think you find the UK supports 240V at around 30A i.e. about 4 times what you mention. It is worth noting only a very small handful of countries use 120V or similar. Here in New Zealand you can typically charge at up to 7kW on a single phase connection or 11kW on a domestic 3 phase connection. Regardless even the 120V 15A that is about 2kW which is fine for a over night charge and normal usage.
Personally I think the "65,000 public chargers" is the only number worth discussing as home charging is a given for those that can charge off street at home.
Here in the UK, home charging isn't an option for a huge number of people. A lot of home still have street parking or communal parking. Particularly when you get to the bigger cities, a driveway in most of London is a sheer extravagance.
The problem with public chargers is that of the 5 in your average Tesco car park, 2 or maybe 3 will be functioning at any given time (and no point in complaining to Tesco, it's all managed by another company). Also they're nowhere near the entrance which really conflicts
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As for the location I have found places with EV charging right next to the e
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you go to some kind of special secret training facility to build up your superpower of incorrectly understanding everything?
1. The UK has 240V as standard. The slowest charging speed for a domestic charger is 240V 16A ie 3.8kW, but most installs are 240V 32A ie 7.7kW. This is supplied through a dedicated wall box with an isolator switch, and yes, sweetie, these kinds of chargers are included in the calculations, because this is how most people charge their EVs in the UK. They plug in maybe once a fortnight (that’s every two weeks, to you) in an evening and in the morning, as if by magic, they have a full charge waiting for them. Obviously, the wall box has enough electronics and engineering to ensure safety (eg well grounded, cutoffs and handshakes) and also new wall boxes will manage time of day charging (ie can be managed via an app to defer charging to when electricity is cheap). They don’t do very much more because what the fuck else do they need to do?
2. It would have taken you all of about 1 minute to learn that the Guardian is a famously left of centre publication and has chosen to use the phrase global heating where others talk about global warming, to emphasise that there is a climat emergency. They did this five fucking years ago, and here you are, stroking your chin and being *terribly puzzled* but too indolent to find out the reasons, even though they’re readily available and blindingly obvious. https://www.theguardian.com/en... [theguardian.com]
3. *Obvously*, a public charger is available to members of the public, while a business charger is available to employees only. If you’re really interested in finding out whether a charger for hotel guests is counted as public or business, I’m sure you can find out, but it really doesn’t matter so long as there’s not double counting
4. Once again, if you wanted to find out how UK lamp post charging operates, it would have taken you under a minute to find out, and you could have learned all by your own self like a big boy that lamp post chargers are integrated outlets that deliver 5kW for overnight charging in areas with limited off-street parking, that there are now several thousand of them in the UK, and they’re designed to provide a fast, scalable, easy to use solution that minimise additional infra as part of a mix of charger offerings in a locality (ie they’re not promoted as the *only* way to charge, ever). https://ubitricity.com/en/char... [ubitricity.com]
5. Area nobber learns that the UK is much smaller than the US and then uses that to draw a batshit conclusion that the UK is somehow unique, thus ignoring that there are 120 countries and dependencies with a smaller land mass than the UK, and another 40 bigger than the UK but smaller than France, and that France is more than twice the size of the UK and has twice as many public chargers, so it is in fact possible to supply larger countries with more chargers and keep the average distance between public chargers low. Does this solve problems for the US, Canada and Kazakhstan, which are all much larger? No. No, it doesn’t. But it does mean that concluding the UK is somehow uniquely suited to lamp post chargers is dipshittery of the highest order.
One day, you’re going to come up with a reasonable point that couldn’t be addressed with 30 seconds on Google, and Slashdot is going to go into fucking meltdown. But that day is not today.
Re:Definitions please. (Score:4, Insightful)
By Christ, you are persistently stupid. Like a little bit of turd clinging to a clump of arse-hair
1. The point of the analysis that informed this article wasn’t to impress you with how much has been spent on expensive fast chargers. I mean obviously not for you, you’re completely irrelevant to them, but it wasn’t designed to impress anyone on that point. It was to try to change the lazy stupid UK journalist narrative that says OMG we have 1m EVs and only 65k chargers, and point out that actually there are 1.1m EVs and 930k chargers so far.
2. Yeah of course you were mocking. Sure. Definitely. You definitely didn’t ask this because you didn’t know the answer, and obviously it’s hugely worth mocking a newspaper for adopting a new term to describe something. You really do your best to come across as a mixture of ignorant, stupid and defensive. At least, I assume you’re doing your best. Imagine if that *wasn’t* the impression you were intending, and you actually intended to come across as informed, smart and self-assured. Jesus, what it would be like to live inside your head if that were true. Horrendous.
3. Cry harder. It’s completely unimportant definitional point. The information will be out there, but I couldn’t give a shit about the fact that you want it. Go find it yourself.
4. Cry harder. No one gives a fuck about what you wanted from this article bar yourself. Your ignorance and unwillingness to rectify it with Google is your problem
5. I cannot believe you’re now flailing around looking to give some absurd post hoc rationalisation for why actually the UK is actually uniquely well suited to EVs actually, and you decided your best bet was to claim it’s because it’s an island! The UK is not uniquely well suited to EVs in any way shape or form. Other countries have much better adoption rates, quite famously including Norway which is 50% larger than the UK yet has less than a tenth of the population, and isn’t an island. What they do have is effective policy that drives adoption. You’re just being a tit, and the endless fucking comparisons to US states are yet more evidence of your tittery. I don’t give a shit about your idiot comparison with Michigan. Here in Europe, the 5 large economies of UK DE FR ES and IT compare themselves to each other first and foremost, not MI, MN or ME.
You are spectacularly bad at this stuff. You just ooze stupid analysis, pig ignorance and this boorish insistence on telling people who live in places you know nothing about, how their world works. Stupid stupid little man
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Yeah but America is COLD. You don't understand how col...
Other countries have much better adoption rates, quite famously including Norway
America has the wrong kind of snow.
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You’d know all about stupid. You’re spending your time judging adjectives
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No, I’m explaining what the Guardian did and its reasoning, which is not the same as judging that “heating” is a stupid adjective. But don’t worry, we’ve established that you’re stupid already, so I wouldn’t expect this distinction to be clear to you. You keep focusing on trying to avoid tying your shoelaces together. You’ll get there in the end!
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The Guardian is a publication, yes?
It has to use words because it is a publication, yes?
It needs to use consistent terms, yes?
It has chosen a term with a verb, yes?
You have chosen to mock the choice of verb, yes?
You’re a fucking imbecile.
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"lamppost chargers" == upto 5.5 kW - it'll depend on the local power structures. Ubitricity - installs lamppost chargers [ubitricity.com]
Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
Re:Definitions please. (Score:5, Insightful)
the longest road distance between two points on Great Britain, according to Wikipedia, is about 840 miles
Why do people (trolls) always focus on the maximum distances?
How often do you drive from end-to-end of a country?
How often do you drive more than 100 miles a day?
How often do you drive more than 30 miles a day?
How often do you drive?
The average commute time in the USA is ~27 minutes, so even if we assume worst driving conditions possible, an EV is practical for almost all normal drivers given sufficient charging points - even "slow" ones. There will be some people who regularly do 6-8 hour driving days, but they will be a vanishingly small percentage of drivers.
Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
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Why is it not a problem if a person is only inconvenienced rarely? If i buy a vehicle i want it to do everything my old vehicle did.
This is why I drive a semi. I moved house once, and, well, OK, I didn't actually have it then but you never know when you might need to haul 40 tons for a thousand miles.
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It will be Level 2 chargers are above, which is about 7kW in the UK rather than 3kW from a standard 240V wall socket. That is how they have got to such a big number 10x greater than the public chargers.
Public charging also has a simple definition because it is selling something so will be registered as such for tax purposes.
Funny side story... (Score:2)
There's an anti-ev attack story making the rounds about how heavy EV could collapse old parking garages. In my city, there is one old parking garage from the early 1970s which does not let anyone park on the top floor, ever and when it rains heavily water pours though multiple large cracks. They put multiple structural steel X cross supports in the garage in recent years. I have parked across the street in a 10 year old garage for the last 5 years.
From the article - https://nypost.com/2023/04/19/... [nypost.com]
Chri
Re:Funny side story... (Score:5, Insightful)
It’s so absurd. What might actually cause some problems is the switch to heavier SUVs away from small cars. Many UK cars are superminis weighing about a ton. If the EV versions weigh 1.5 tons, that’s still not an issue. What matters are the buffoons in their Land Rover Discos weighing 2.3 tones.
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Maybe, but Chris Whapples is very very British, and it was British idiots who came up with this story about car parks.
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lol...not really since it was described as an "anti-ev attack story" indicating a skepticism of its veracity.
Think of it as people on both sides lining up a checklist of one line soundbite friendly phrases in the pro or con camp for ev vs not-ev.
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It’s so absurd. What might actually cause some problems is the switch to heavier SUVs away from small cars. Many UK cars are superminis weighing about a ton. If the EV versions weigh 1.5 tons, that’s still not an issue. What matters are the buffoons in their Land Rover Discos weighing 2.3 tones.
Oddly enough I think it's the massive, oversized, I have a small penis SUV that are prime for replacement by EVs. They're already heavy, oversized and unweildly, so just add the battery pack and your 2.3t SUV is only a 2.6t SUV. Sure there are some bridges you're not meant to go over (not that it stops the SUV wankers) and you cant fit into an ordinary car parking bay (so double parking is the order of the day) but you get to feel big despite being one of the smallest people in ego, if not stature as well.
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Name a single example of an ICE vehicle and an EV where one weighs twice the amount of the other. For example, find a comparable car to the Kia EV6 in dimensions that weights 900 to 1100kg. Go on, I very dare you.
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The Hummer EV might be closest at around 9000 pounds. I'm not sure if the most directly comparable gas vehicles are quite half the weight, but I bet some are close. With that said, that vehicle is an outlier and shouldn't be taken as representative of EVs generally.
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The challenge was "comparable car" not "the same model but ICE".
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The last non-EV Renault 5 was produced a mere *34* years ago (and the lightest ever was the Renault GT Turbo at 850kg, ie more than half of 1.5 tons). I can’t believe I’m having to spell this out, but I meant a *current* production ICE vehicle.
The Honda Civic is between 4551 and 4594 mm long, while the EV6 is 4680 to 4695 long. So the EV6 is longer than the Civic
The Honda Civic is between 1802 and 1890 mm wide, while the EV6 is 1880 to 1890 wide. So the EV6 is typically wider than the Civic
The H
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Re: Funny side story... (Score:2)
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Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
Battery electric vehicles are one of the very few practical ways we currently have to significantly reduce the co2 emissions of transport. The other possibilities are very large scale use of public transport, or using bicycles for everything.
I would say they are also much better to drive: more silent, faster, instant throttle response and very smooth acceleration. And one pedal driving in the mountains is just so much less effort.
Having to charge is a minor inconvenience, given enough public chargers and t
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Having to charge is a minor inconvenience
Having to go to a gas pump is a bigger inconvenience.
EVs are less hassle than ICE cars.
Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
Re: Definitions please. (Score:2)
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Noise is a danger to everyone. Auto noise damages human health. The reason EVs need noisemakers fitted at the moment is that you can't hear the small-but-clear noise they make over the sound of ICE vehicles. Once ICE vehicles become rare, EVs won't need noisemakers, and our streets will become quieter, and it will be great for everyone.
See, eg, https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2023... [blog.gov.uk]
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The EVs which are not selling are poorly-designed and over priced rubbish from legacy manufacturers who did not bother giving the designs any thought.
Teslas, which are 10 years ahead in design and manufacturing, are selling like hot cakes.
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Not in Australia. There's a growing pile of Teslas sitting around [yahoo.com] that no-one wants to buy as the Chinese makes are taking over the market.