US Scientists Identify Cause of Massive Crab Die-Off (cnn.com) 85
Long-time Slashdot reader mmell writes:
Recent reports have indicated a near-complete collapse in the population of Snow Crabs in the Bering Sea. Scientists with the US Government's National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration have concluded that warming in the environment has led to vast numbers of snow crabs starving to death.
There has been a lot of back-and-forth, a lot of argument on whether or how much humanity has had an effect on the fundamental ecology of our planet... Here is a fine example of anthropogenic change to the planet's weather, ecosystems and even the planet's very ability to feed us.
From the government's findings on the NOAA web site: "What is particularly noteworthy is these boreal conditions associated with the snow crab collapse are more than 200 times likely to occur in the present climate (1.0 degrees -1.5 degrees of warming rate) than in the preindustrial era," said Mike Litzow, lead author and director of the Alaska Fisheries Science Center's Kodiak Lab. "Even more concerning is that Arctic conditions conducive for snow crabs to retain their dominant role in the southeastern Bering Sea are expected to continue to decline in the future." [...] Litzow and his team expect to see Arctic conditions in only 8 percent of future years in the southeastern Bering Sea.
The warmer temperatures brought existential threats including including a fatal disease and more crab-eating predators, their study found. CNN reports that the crabs' "horrific demise appears to be just one impact of the massive transition unfolding in the region, scientists reported... Parts of the Bering Sea are literally becoming less Arctic." Billions of crabs ultimately starved to death, devastating Alaska's fishing industry in the years that followed... The decline of the Alaskan snow crab signals a wider ecosystem change in the Arctic, as oceans warm and sea ice disappears. The ocean around Alaska is now becoming inhospitable for several marine species, including red king crab and sea lions, experts say...
The Arctic region has warmed four times faster than the rest of the planet, scientists have reported. Litzow called what's happening in the Bering Sea a "bellwether" of what's to come. "All of us need to recognize the impacts of climate change," he said.
There has been a lot of back-and-forth, a lot of argument on whether or how much humanity has had an effect on the fundamental ecology of our planet... Here is a fine example of anthropogenic change to the planet's weather, ecosystems and even the planet's very ability to feed us.
From the government's findings on the NOAA web site: "What is particularly noteworthy is these boreal conditions associated with the snow crab collapse are more than 200 times likely to occur in the present climate (1.0 degrees -1.5 degrees of warming rate) than in the preindustrial era," said Mike Litzow, lead author and director of the Alaska Fisheries Science Center's Kodiak Lab. "Even more concerning is that Arctic conditions conducive for snow crabs to retain their dominant role in the southeastern Bering Sea are expected to continue to decline in the future." [...] Litzow and his team expect to see Arctic conditions in only 8 percent of future years in the southeastern Bering Sea.
The warmer temperatures brought existential threats including including a fatal disease and more crab-eating predators, their study found. CNN reports that the crabs' "horrific demise appears to be just one impact of the massive transition unfolding in the region, scientists reported... Parts of the Bering Sea are literally becoming less Arctic." Billions of crabs ultimately starved to death, devastating Alaska's fishing industry in the years that followed... The decline of the Alaskan snow crab signals a wider ecosystem change in the Arctic, as oceans warm and sea ice disappears. The ocean around Alaska is now becoming inhospitable for several marine species, including red king crab and sea lions, experts say...
The Arctic region has warmed four times faster than the rest of the planet, scientists have reported. Litzow called what's happening in the Bering Sea a "bellwether" of what's to come. "All of us need to recognize the impacts of climate change," he said.
Re:alternate hypothesis (Score:5, Informative)
In terms of ocean life, RF doesn't penetrate water unless it's ULF, which satellites are not using, but submarines have been using for almost a century, with no signs of damage to biology.
Keep your 5G cult bs elsewhere
Re: alternate hypothesis (Score:2)
And the energy falls off at the cube root. You don't have to go very far, even with a megawatt transmission, for it to be a miniscule amount of energy. Like miniscule meaning doing a unit of work such as moving a paper clip one centimeter. The Sun on the other hand is pretty bright at anythinf less than 1 AU. But it is a phenomally large ball of plasma, so that checks out.
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If you put your hand in a very hot oven, it gets warm because the oven is very powerful. Radio waves are much weaker, so they donâ(TM)t make things hot in the same way.
Please explain why there are RF exposure limits for humans which I, as a radio operator, must not exceed. While you're at it, explain microwave ovens.
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> Even if you are blind and deaf, I am not
You can hear the Sun? What does it say to you?
My Son says "I love you this much!" (Score:2)
Then again, my Son was always a little meshugene.
Oh, wait - you said 'Sun'. I thought you said 'Son'. My mistake. The Sun tells me to BUY SOLARCAINE.
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RF is essentially a photon. The average tenth thickness of water for photon energy is 24 inches. In just 4 feet there would be only 1% remaining. Granted some frequency interact faster. 2.5ghz is the microwave frequency which attenuates in water spectacularly. Eventually all photons will succumb to photoelectric effect, given enough water, which oceans have no shortage of. The colder the water the more dense, which only increases its cross-section effectiveness.
Cocoa or coo-coo? (Score:2)
Re:alternate hypothesis (Score:4, Informative)
hypothesis: changes in the electromagnetic environment of the snow-crabs is adversely affecting them.
Water is an excellent shield against most forms of radiation, even the ionizing sort. Other than serving as a textbook case of the type of post that truly deserves being modded down, you've added absolutely nothing of value to this discussion.
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Water is an excellent shield against most forms of radiation, even the ionizing sort.
Salty water, even more so.
Crab trivia: Snow crabs aren't crabs. They're an example of Carcinisation [wikipedia.org].
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Crab trivia: Snow crabs aren't crabs. They're an example of Carcinisation [wikipedia.org].
With my most sincere apologies to the B-52s:
Dun dun dun dun-dun-dun-dun dun-dun
We were on a boat
Everyone was wearing matching survival suits
Somebody pulled up a pod
And there they saw a crab
It wasn't a crab
It was a squat lobster!
Ah-ah-ah-ah Squat lobster!
Ah-ah-ah-ah Squat lobster!
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E-band radio frequencies don't propagate too hot through water, especially at the wattage we're talking about from a satellite that is a few hundred miles up.
Sounds like a fascinating subject for research. (Score:4, Informative)
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You get all climate uppity
It's amazing how the right-wing loves to throw racist epithets like "uppity" randomly while they're demonstrating how utterly fucking stupid they are.
As a Floridian who's been through countless hurricanes
Hurricanes are a weather event. And yet, we know that humans are having an effect on the climate, creating warming trends that cause problems for cold-adapted species and also increase the frequency and volatility of weather events like hurricanes, because the more energy t [nasa.gov]
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True, and false. It has happened before, but not at this rapid rate of change. Adaptation takes time.
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Yes, it has happened before. Several times it has been associated with the extinction of up to 90% of extant species, typically all apex predators. Humans, in most environments on earth, are the apex predator.
Not quite 90% of extant species. The Great Dying, or the Permian-Triassic Extinction, took out up to 96% of marine species, and 70% of land species. That's the biggest extinction the Earth has had percentage wise, as far as we can tell. All others were less. So, you'll typically see 80-85% die-off for the big ones. The Great Dying is what we're striving to replicate here. And I think we can do it, if we just keep fighting each other harder than we fight our tendency to filth up the planet we call home.
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Pay no attention to Moryath. That stolen valor fucker. Hes been spreading lies about being a vet but failed some simple questions that every vet knows about stoploss. Nothing lower than someone trying to cash in on other peoples sacrifices for their own glory. Fake wannabe impotent child pretending to be a vet. Its sad really
I'm a veteran of the US Army. What is stoploss? (Score:2)
I mean, I use the word stoploss to refer to how much money I'm willing to gamble when I go to the casino. Incidentally, while I saw A Few Good Men, I remember a "code red" being a reference to someone being a security issue (ex., a GI with a drinking/drug/gambling/hooker problem).
I don't ever remember using or hearing the word "stoploss". I served four years, including training at Fort Dix, Fort Gordon, and Fort Benning. You might want to watch how you toss that accusation around.
Just so you'll know -
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He did not know about the 8 year obligation. Said it wasnt even a thing. They tell you week 1 in bootcamp about it.
The MSO is defined by the Military Selective Service Act of 1967 and Title 10 United States Code Section 651. All enlisted members agree to an initial eight-year MSO when they take their oath of service. However, the eight years may not be served entirely in active service or drilling service.
Stoploss is technically when they call you back. That usually never happened. That is until 2006ish. It started happening a lot to the Iraq vets.
Oh, as in "Extended". (Score:2)
Yes, I remember the eight year committment. I, personally, was extended six months, from January through June of 1984. Nobody ever called it "stoploss" - at least, not where I could hear it.
As for the military - they emphasized the eight year nature of the contract before they let me sign it. Once more at the AAFES station when I swore in. By the time I got to Basic Combat Training, I was tired of hearing about it, but I did hear about it one more time, the first time I filled out my dream sheet (I've
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I don't ever remember using or hearing the word "stoploss". I served four years, including training at Fort Dix, Fort Gordon, and Fort Benning. You might want to watch how you toss that accusation around.
FWIW it wasnt not knowing the word stoploss I had issue with. Thats just a word command uses to keep their billets filled and stop the loss of enlisted leaving active service. He was going off on his unhinged tantrum when I called him a coward and said there was no way he ever enlisted. He then not only claimed to be a vet but said his family had more vets than anyone on here basically. It was the whole ‘my daddy could beat up your daddy’ childlike response that made me suspect. I mean your seco
And I seem to have jammed my foot in it. (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like a fascinating subject for research. (Score:4, Interesting)
Is a new population forming further North?
And the "more crab-eating predators", would that be Homo Sapiens?
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Is a new population forming further North?
Survival of climate change in the past has largely been driven by evolution not by migration. Many animals do in fact not migrate away to wherever the weather channel say they can live a comfortable life. Often animals have an entire ecosystem around them in balance which is why when one ends up in another ecosystem they either die, or there's severe knock on ecological effects.
The problem then is: climate change in the past was slow. When the world took several 1000 years to warm by one degree you can easi
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Because some of us have the ability to form an individual thought.
Individual thought is important when it comes time to decide what to eat for dinner, but it becomes an entirely meaningless opinion in the face of a mountain of data statistically analysed to death by countless experts around the globe.
Some of us have the ability to realize that we've been keeping oceanic creatures alive in fish tanks, in our homes, with water temps that vary much more wildly than their natural habitat.
It's hilarious that you think we're talking about your fishtank here. But on that topic you realise you can simply kill fish by changing the water without slow acclimatisation right? You relise that countless fish get flushed down the toilet daily, and that the thing you buy
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You're free to think what you want, my individual thought is that people who think they are better than scientists actually studying the topics are morons. That means you just for the record.
Ah yes, the mark of a true scholar, is insults. It's quite telling that you separate yourself into a separate class of person than 'scientists actually studying the topics.' There are many 'scientists' who go into academia for their entire lives, merely studying and repeating the work of others. Are they expected to be authoritative on a subject, and in contrast to an enthusiast? What would concretely separate them, their knowledge, their abilities beyond title?
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You're almost there. Now graph the current day ocean temperature change over time.
Re:Then they haven't been around long (Score:5, Interesting)
The earth has been much warmer than the scare temperatures that thay are complaining about. How did crabs survive those temperatures? According to this study, they couldn't have.
They died out, new species evolved. The point is that whenever there are massive climate changes it is usually accompanied by mass extinctions. Eventually the eco systems recover through species moving, adapting and evolving but, and this is the important thing: It takes more than a fiscal quarter for ecosystems to recover from radical climate change and mass extinctions, more like hundred of thousands or millions of years and being alive during such times, like the Permian–Triassic extinction event for example, can suck bigly.
Oops - misread your post. (Score:3)
Adding fuel to the fire (Score:2)
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Re:Then they haven't been around long (Score:4, Insightful)
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I am sure all the trump supporting conservative crabbers that have nothing to catch completely agree with you and think everything is fine.
Don't worry. They'll just get government hands out which are not the same thing as socialism [tumblr.com].
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Re:Then they haven't been around long (Score:5, Informative)
How did crabs survive those temperatures?
The ancient crabs had built a vast underwater civilization with advanced technologies to keep them comfortable. As the planet began to cool, a schism developed between the crabs who felt their society had become too reliant upon technology, and the ones who saw continuing progress as part of their evolutionary destiny. Eventually, the faction that had embraced their technological prowess came upon an amazing but ultimately disturbing discovery: they developed a device that could show future events before they had occurred.
At first, this device only allowed viewing events a few moments ahead in time, but as they refined the operation of the device it eventually allowed them to view the entire path that Earth's lifespan as planet would ultimately take. They were horrified to observe that one day a land-based species would evolve, with an insatiable predatory drive, the likes of which they'd never before experienced. Since they were a peaceful species, war was an option they absolutely refused to consider. As they had ample time to prepare for this eventually, they focused their efforts on a plan to find a new home for their empire.
While early humans were still busy banging stones together and grunting at each other, the technologically advanced snow crabs headed into their interstellar space ships and bid their farewell to earth. Those that remained behind in ignorance awaited a gruesome fate in the many, many generations that lied ahead.
Now you know.
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well crafted.
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The earth has been much warmer than the scare temperatures that thay are complaining about. How did crabs survive those temperatures? According to this study, they couldn't have.
When it was last "much warmer", it was at least a couple of million years ago. These are timescales over which biological evolution happens. Snow crabs either moved their habitats, or they adapted, or both. "This study" says nothing about their pre-historic populations. It looks at the cause of the current short-term reduction in the number and habitat of the crabs. Note that they are still living - just in much reduced numbers (but still 1.9 billion in the Bering sea in 2022). And they have reservoirs outs
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Wow, this must never had occurred to the scientists whose job it is to study this stuff. Could you please write up your insight and send it to them?
Rich people problems. (Score:2, Troll)
I haven't been able to afford grab for years...Sucks for the fishermen who's income depends on their being grabs. I guess they should just learn to code or something, since we're not stopping this warming trend anyway.
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Maybe you should ask for crab instead of grab. Most people won't let you grab unless you pay a huge amount of money. Crab costs a lot less.
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Haha that's a great typo. And twice no less. Still, if I could afford the CRAB then maybe she would let me grab? Likely not. Not even crab would override nerdism :)
And Trump says (Score:2)
"Drill baby drill!" The man is mentally ill.
I had a dentist like that. (Score:2)
You're wasting your time. (Score:3, Insightful)
Can't you see you're just frightening him? He can't understand. You're just being cruel, expecting him to function on the same level as Homo Sapiens. He can't He's incapable of learning. He only knows what he already knows, what he has been told by his parents, his teachers, his church, his political leaders. Look at him, it's tearing him apart. He knows you expect more of him, he just doesn't know what, or how to do it. He wants so to please; he's hoping someone will notice how hard he's trying. Y
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Can't you see you're just frightening him? He can't understand. You're just being cruel, expecting him to function on the same level as Homo Sapiens. He can't He's incapable of learning. He only knows what he already knows, what he has been told by his parents, his teachers, his church, his political leaders. Look at him, it's tearing him apart. He knows you expect more of him, he just doesn't know what, or how to do it. He wants so to please; he's hoping someone will notice how hard he's trying. You're being cruel and inhuman, expecting so much of him.
Okay, argStyopa, the AC won't bother you anymore. Now, go outside and play and don't forget to be back inside before dark.
This sort of sarcasm would probably be more effective if it weren't coming from people who believe that a boy who puts on a a dress and then wishes real hard turns into a girl.
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"Law and Order" had an episode about this. The boy thinks like a girl, and identifies (meaning "sexual identity") as a girl and wants to do what the other girls do. Having a penis means there a limits to doing girl 'stuff'. Which might be why there is a demand for gender re-assignment.
It was eye-opening and you just demonstrated the typical "I dun wanna know" response. Yes, it's easy to 'know' the boy is just being a coward and hiding with the girls: Any psychologist (or parent) will tell you, it's h
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Just don't expect everyone else in the world to play your game and treat you like a real female.
You can play dress up all you like and hang with others that want to play your game...however, your rights stop when they start to infringe on others, such as real women wanting no men in their dressing rooms and bathrooms.....and in their athletics.
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Meaning, they don't want people (with a penis) acting like women in their bathrooms. English language doesn't have the words for this: "Acting" doesn't explain the sincerity of transsexuals needing to be women. If women, feel that isn't enough, then society needs to create a third bathroom: That will be really expensive, which is why no-one is promoting sexual identity rights. I've seen one state, where all cubicles open onto the street, there is no common area in the public toilet-block: Hence, no nee
Based on the moderation, I'd say you're wrong. (Score:2)
Score: 4, Funny
I'm thinkin' I nailed it.
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Pointing a finger at the cause of that climate change is not, prima facie, supported by the data they're presenting here.
Indeed not. It's not the subject of this study. And it does not need to be, because humans as the overwhelming cause of current climate change is the established state of the science, backed by thousands of papers. Similarly, a medical study of the cause of broken bones will mention falls, but not show that they are the result of gravity.
From the very article you've linked to . . . (Score:2)
You really ought to read your references before you cite them. Just sayin', is all.
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Are we certain they died off? (Score:2)
Years back when everyone was watching ‘Deadliest Catch’ we learned these water bug bastards migrate like nobody’s business. Are we certain they didnt judt move further north? Its not all alaskan land mass on one side. Theres that dotted chain between russia and alaska. The lack of catch definitely explains the price hikes. Not even shitty Chinese buffets offer all you can eat crab anymore. And the Calabash buffers are crazy expensive now.
We ARE certain their environment changed. (Score:2)
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The extinction. Its one thing to say we made the bearing sea uninhabitable for apillio. Its another to say they all died off. One is significant worse and if not true, rather alarmist and doesn't help. I would much rather hear they migrated. The fix for that is much better than repopulating an endangered species. Overfishing is a real problem. But crab also migrate where their food supply migrates. They are actually temperature resilient. But will starve if the food source disappears.
The scientific solution would be to find them. (Score:2)
I for one am shocked (Score:2)
Never would have guessed they would have decided it was climate change. My money was on them determining that the reason for this happening was excessive government spending and taxation.
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starvation (Score:1)