EPA Must Address Fluoridated Water's Risk To Children's IQs, US Judge Rules (reuters.com) 32
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: A federal judge in California has ordered the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to strengthen regulations for fluoride in drinking water, saying the compound poses an unreasonable potential risk to children at levels that are currently typical nationwide. U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco on Tuesday sided (PDF) with several advocacy groups, finding the current practice of adding fluoride to drinking water supplies to fight cavities presented unreasonable risks for children's developing brains.
Chen said the advocacy groups had established during a non-jury trial that fluoride posed an unreasonable risk of harm sufficient to require a regulatory response by the EPA under the Toxic Substances Control Act. "The scientific literature in the record provides a high level of certainty that a hazard is present; fluoride is associated with reduced IQ," wrote Chen, an appointee of Democratic former President Barack Obama. But the judge stressed he was not concluding with certainty that fluoridated water endangered public health. [...] The EPA said it was reviewing the decision. "The court's historic decision should help pave the way towards better and safer fluoride standards for all," Michael Connett, a lawyer for the advocacy groups, said in a statement on Wednesday.
Chen said the advocacy groups had established during a non-jury trial that fluoride posed an unreasonable risk of harm sufficient to require a regulatory response by the EPA under the Toxic Substances Control Act. "The scientific literature in the record provides a high level of certainty that a hazard is present; fluoride is associated with reduced IQ," wrote Chen, an appointee of Democratic former President Barack Obama. But the judge stressed he was not concluding with certainty that fluoridated water endangered public health. [...] The EPA said it was reviewing the decision. "The court's historic decision should help pave the way towards better and safer fluoride standards for all," Michael Connett, a lawyer for the advocacy groups, said in a statement on Wednesday.
I never thought I'd read these words... (Score:4, Funny)
In the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Ripper claimed that water fluoridation was destroying “our precious bodily fluids”—a reference to the claim that water fluoridation was a conspiracy designed to weaken US willpower and make the country susceptible to a Communist takeover.
Link to paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov] =D
Do Thyroid and Pineal gland function next ... (Score:2)
The safety factors for impact on thyroid and pineal gland function are similarly pathetic or entirely absent depending on your point of view. With the anti-anti-science squad desperately trying to claim threshold effect as if that makes it all good.
Caries is a huge problem which in and of itself causes massive health problems downstream, at the population level probably well in excess of the little health damage of fluoridation ... but can we have an honest discussion about it, instead of first lying for th
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The safety factors for impact on thyroid and pineal gland function are similarly pathetic or entirely absent depending on your point of view. With the anti-anti-science squad desperately trying to claim threshold effect as if that makes it all good.
Caries is a huge problem which in and of itself causes massive health problems downstream, at the population level probably well in excess of the little health damage of fluoridation ... but can we have an honest discussion about it, instead of first lying for the greater good and then turning it into a witch hunt for the greater good? "You can't handle the truth" is not a good position for scientists to take IMO.
The effects of fluoride were discovered via people who lived in an area where the drinking water contained fluoride, and they had few cavities. If a demonstrable effect that fluoride made humans stupid, it seems that those same people would be remarkably and quantitatively of lower intelligence.
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OK. But without fluoridating the water there are other approaches that work. Before I lived in an area with fluoridated water the dentists used to paint teeth with a fluoride paste. I forget how often that needed to be repeated.
Anyway, if there ARE problems with fluoride in the water, one can avoid systemic exposure and still get the benefits.
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Yeah, people are eating toothpaste instead. That's just great, you've done well. Something not intended for eating is now eaten in quantity.
The fluoride fear mongering just come across as conspiracies.
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OK. But without fluoridating the water there are other approaches that work. Before I lived in an area with fluoridated water the dentists used to paint teeth with a fluoride paste. I forget how often that needed to be repeated.
Anyway, if there ARE problems with fluoride in the water, one can avoid systemic exposure and still get the benefits.
That is true. I use a fluoride paste at home - It is a casein based product with sodium fluoride. It also rebuilds enamel which helps to reduce sensitivity. Got it from my dentist. Well worth it.
Another possibility of a test is to measure the IQ of Americans who partake of fluoridated water with countries that have no fluoridation either through natural water, or medically administered. Those countries citizens should have a markedly higher average IQ.
This should be provable the same way as lead "consu
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You can't use IQ tests to make such comparisons, especially between countries. Even if IQ tests were a reliable measure of raw intelligence, which they clearly are not, there are too many other variables to attribute any difference to just one thing like fluoride.
The only way to prove fluoride has any effect on intelligence is to find the mechanism by which it affects development of the brain.
Re: Do Thyroid and Pineal gland function next ... (Score:2)
WTF happened to us? (Score:2)
A long time ago, someone noticed that if there wasn't enough fluoride naturally present in the water, populations had drastically worse dental health so we started adding a bit where we found the levels deficient. Much like we discovered that if you don't have enough iodine in your diet you get goiters and other health issues, so we started iodizing salt.
I don't care if there's a tiny effect on average IQ when we add fluoride to our drinking water; I care if the impact is better or worse than the benefit
How do we decide? (Score:2)
'I care if the impact is better or worse than the benefit to our dental health.'
What is the basis for our decision?
Ground level truth (Score:2)
A long time ago, someone noticed that if there wasn't enough fluoride naturally present in the water, populations had drastically worse dental health so we started adding a bit where we found the levels deficient. Much like we discovered that if you don't have enough iodine in your diet you get goiters and other health issues, so we started iodizing salt.
I don't care if there's a tiny effect on average IQ when we add fluoride to our drinking water; I care if the impact is better or worse than the benefit to our dental health.
Shouldn't you be caring about the strength of effects on overall mortality?
Why is dental health more important than IQ?
We know that IQ is responsible for about 40% of success in our society(*). I'd like to see figures that show rate conditionalized on having cavities.
Additionally, I was told once by a dentist that caries is transmitted from the parents, mother specifically by sharing food, to the newborn infant. In cases where the mother is careful and the infant doesn't get infected, the newborn's immune s
Re: Ground level truth (Score:2)
Why is dental health more important than IQ?
Dental health, and in particular poor dental lm has all sorts of knock on effects on other health. Heart health, mental health, general nutrition, and many many other things are tied to the condition of our teeth.
This is why Canada is in the process of rolling out public dental care.
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Dental health, and in particular poor dental lm has all sorts of knock on effects on other health.
So does low IQ.
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You know how to improve dental health even more? Universal healthcare including free trips to the dents every 6 months, rather than reserving that right to people with jobs where the benefits include a dental plan - a meme so common that Americans even poke fun at themselves in movies for it.
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A long time ago, someone noticed that if there wasn't enough fluoride naturally present in the water, populations had drastically worse dental health so we started adding a bit where we found the levels deficient. Much like we discovered that if you don't have enough iodine in your diet you get goiters and other health issues, so we started iodizing salt.
Half of the salt purchased isn't iodized. People have a choice.
"When weighted by sales volume in ounces or per item, 53% contained iodized salt."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
I don't care if there's a tiny effect on average IQ when we add fluoride to our drinking water
I do.
I care if the impact is better or worse than the benefit to our dental health.
Those concerned about their dental health should try toothpaste and floss.
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>Those concerned about their dental health should try toothpaste and floss.
Insufficient - unless you use fluoridated toothpaste.
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Insufficient - unless you use fluoridated toothpaste.
What else would you use? Is there even such thing as non-fluoridated toothpaste? If so where can you buy it?
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A long time ago, someone noticed that if there wasn't enough fluoride naturally present in the water, populations had drastically worse dental health so we started adding a bit where we found the levels deficient. Much like we discovered that if you don't have enough iodine in your diet you get goiters and other health issues, so we started iodizing salt.
I don't care if there's a tiny effect on average IQ when we add fluoride to our drinking water; I care if the impact is better or worse than the benefit to our dental health.
This - and if it has a detrimental effect on IQ, why didn't they observe that these people had great teeth, as well as being stupid?
Seems like a great study. A group of people whose children are raised without anf fluoride in their diets (gonna have to make certain there is none in their water source, and a group whose children had fluoridated water. In the end, the children who partook of fluoride should be much less intelligent as adults than those who had no fluoride at any time.
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This - and if it has a detrimental effect on IQ, why didn't they observe that these people had great teeth, as well as being stupid?
It is easier to see signals from population level dental health than measuring slight changes in intellect of a population.
Seems like a great study. A group of people whose children are raised without anf fluoride in their diets (gonna have to make certain there is none in their water source, and a group whose children had fluoridated water. In the end, the children who partook of fluoride should be much less intelligent as adults than those who had no fluoride at any time.
I don't understand the basis of commentary such as "much less intelligent" my understanding is the observed variance is on the order of a few points basically in line with what you can expect from taking another IQ test. Who is talking about significant changes in IQ?
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This - and if it has a detrimental effect on IQ, why didn't they observe that these people had great teeth, as well as being stupid?
It is easier to see signals from population level dental health than measuring slight changes in intellect of a population.
I don't disagree with you at all. But they claim that it makes people less intelligent.
Seems like a great study. A group of people whose children are raised without anf fluoride in their diets (gonna have to make certain there is none in their water source, and a group whose children had fluoridated water. In the end, the children who partook of fluoride should be much less intelligent as adults than those who had no fluoride at any time.
I don't understand the basis of commentary such as "much less intelligent" my understanding is the observed variance is on the order of a few points basically in line with what you can expect from taking another IQ test. Who is talking about significant changes in IQ?
The people who will take this and run with it. They are anti-vaxxers,
Address it ehh? (Score:2)
"This is stupid and false, and while we're addressing it, we're not going to change our policies based on stupidity" There we go.
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Do we know that it's false? It could be a minor effect, or there could be a threshold. We do know that excess fluoridation causes teeth to become brittle (and unsightly). So there definitely SHOULD be limits. What they are ... well, that's less clear to me.
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Yes mr sea lion. We know it's false.
Who drinks tap water these days (Score:2)
Tap water is for washing, not drinking.
Buy distilled water, and add what minerals/nutrients you need.
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WTF? Many people drink tap water, at least in countries where it is safe to drink.
The frogs are out hopping in the pride parade (Score:2)
Better get the EPA on that one too.
Hey, if it distracts them from banning automobiles and red meat (and you know they want to), I'm grudgingly in favor of this bullshit.
Let's get this straight... (Score:1)
You'd think the EPA would already be biased towards excess caution, because the more they regulate, the more they're seen to be "doing something". Like the way auditors always, always find something to justify their existence, it'd be odd for the EPA to be letting things slide... at least if there's actual science telling them they should reg