Advocacy Groups Suspend Use of 'Suicide Capsule' (apnews.com) 54
doc1623 writes: Advocacy groups behind a so-called suicide capsule said Sunday they have suspended the process of taking applications to use it -- which numbered over 370 last month -- as a criminal investigation into its first use in Switzerland is completed. The president of Switzerland-based The Last Resort, Florian Willet, is being held in pretrial detention, said the group and Exit International, an affiliate founded in Australia over a quarter century ago. Swiss police arrested Willet and several other people following the death of an unidentified 64-year-old woman from the U.S. Midwest who on Sept. 23 became the first person to use the device, known as the "Sarco," in a forest in the northern Schaffhausen region near the German border. Others initially detained were released from custody, authorities have said.
Too bad. It looked very promising. (Score:5, Insightful)
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But then who will pick the cotton if the lower 99% decide to reroll?
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The FU2 visa program was reinstated with slightly better conditions and a new name.
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That is not what is happening here. Exit has been operating for years in Switzerland. As far as I understand the issue it's the fact that the procedure around this capsule is new, has not been approved yet and still they went ahead and used it.
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That is not what is happening here. Exit has been operating for years in Switzerland. As far as I understand the issue it's the fact that the procedure around this capsule is new, has not been approved yet and still they went ahead and used it.
The Swiss laws on the procedure are pretty straight forward without much room for confusion.
There are only two requirements for assisted suicide
1) The person takes his or her life with no "external assistance" and
2) Those who help the person die do not do so for "any self-serving motive."
The capsule procedure is the user inside presses a button. This fills it with nitrogen gas.
The capsule has to be sealed to keep the gas in, with the user inside with the button, and anyone else outside unable to reach said
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So I guess that means doctors cannot take money (whether state sponsored or otherwise) because of 2, which makes the entire business-model a bit weird. The number 1 is a bit weird, not sure if you translated it correctly, because assisted suicide is by definition external assistance.
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I believe the point is that the final decision is left in the hands of the person whose life is ending. If in the capsule he or she changes their mind and just wants to lay there enjoying the view for a while then nothing more happens. The button doesn't get pushed, the capsule doesn't flood with ... nitrogen, I think it was, and they go on living. No one else on the outside makes the final decision for them.
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The number 1 is a bit weird, not sure if you translated it correctly, because assisted suicide is by definition external assistance.
It is not by definition extremal assistance.
Maybe in a german language dictionary it is defined that way (or french or italian or.. however many official languages they have now) but that definition is irrelevant.
Only the LEGAL definition in the law matters here.
The legal definition only addresses the act that ends a persons life.
You can hand them a shot, you can not assist in administering it.
You can hand them a pill, you can not assist in putting it in their mouth.
You can hand them a knife, you can not st
Re:Too bad. It looked very promising. (Score:4, Insightful)
Governments should not be in the business of forcing people to continue to live against their will.
This is the problem with modern governance. Government seems to believe they own citizens from birth, and citizens must be forced to complete the correct set of steps before being allowed to die. And some of those steps include shoveling off to a retirement home where your funds can be bled dry before you are allowed to expire painfully and slowly. This is the program. Deviation from the program is frowned upon.
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It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
After some review from medical professionals, it should be legal.
My cat had severe cancer and was suffering. We were able to kill her without a second thought and it was what was best. My mother-in-law had to go to "hospice" and starve herself to death while suffering from internal bleeding in her lungs from stage 4 lung cancer. It was brutal, traumatic, and 100% unnecessary. My grandfather had to do the same.
Why do humans like suffering so much?
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Re:It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed. We don't expect die-hard fans of Lord of the Rings or Star Wars to decie how everyone should live, so why should we think otherwise of fans of ancient fantasy books?
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It is almost like there is this thing call society and this is how it works.
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Respectfully, I don't agree that it is the wrong word. Self termination is whitewashing/politically correct culture - nothing wrong with using it, but you're implying you can't own what you're saying or are squeamish about it. The OP may have used "kill" to indicate they have come to terms with reality, and they deserve our respect for this. Killing and death is scary stuff.
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Okay, but the nominally atheist Chinese and nominally Hindu Indian governments also ban assisted suicide. I feel as though your model lacks predictive power.
Certainly, the Old Testament prohibition of suicide has had some effect on policy (especially in more unhinged places like the US), but I think it's a bit reductionist to boil it down to unthinking religious absolutism.
Re:It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Because most Western governments are staffed by Christians, the alleged followers of Jesus.
In the US definitely, but I don't think that's the only factor elsewhere.
At a high level, the role of the government and the medical profession is to protect life, so there's a lot of resistance to deviate from that principal.
And there's also practical considerations, the inevitable court battles started by family members [calgaryherald.com], the question of whether to give the option to children or people with dementia, and just where to draw the line with various illnesses.
I think it's just an area that politicians are reluctant to wade into.
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And the lord said thou shall not kill or aid an abet the death of another soul however much they experience torment and suffering. Let people who create suicide pills be cast into the pits of hell for their support of this travesty. But guns are okay.
Re:It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
Assisted suicide is banned in the Western civilisation since the Hippocratic Oath, 4 centuries before any Christians.
Re:It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:5, Interesting)
The issue is one of potential. Death erases any and all potential. Be it societal or personal.
It's basically the same basic principle as with the death penalty. You cannot undo it. As is often the case, thresholds are very fluid and waters are murky... if someone is suffering from a terminal disease and there is no hope that this person could ever conceivably enjoy life again.... ...well, what does that mean? I have been having trouble enjoying life for the last 20 to 30 years but I finally managed to turn the trend into a positive direction. So if I had offed myself five years ago, my current's self would be rather pissed with that hypothetical past self.
There have been people during history who have achieved unbelievable things under extremely trying conditions. Chances are, these people wanted to give up at some point. What if they had?
In short, suicide is very much against most, if not all, our basic instincts. Therefore if someone wishes to do it, I wager chances are it's to a large degree a mental thing that could be changed.
I for one would not want to be involved in helping someone end that potential.
Disclaimer: I did not win the genetic lottery. I am suffering from a list of things and I have had several years at a time where I had regular thoughts of suicide and I have called a helpline even.
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The issue is one of potential. Death erases any and all potential. Be it societal or personal.
It's basically the same basic principle as with the death penalty. You cannot undo it. As is often the case, thresholds are very fluid and waters are murky... if someone is suffering from a terminal disease and there is no hope that this person could ever conceivably enjoy life again.... ...well, what does that mean? I have been having trouble enjoying life for the last 20 to 30 years but I finally managed to turn the trend into a positive direction. So if I had offed myself five years ago, my current's self would be rather pissed with that hypothetical past self.
There have been people during history who have achieved unbelievable things under extremely trying conditions. Chances are, these people wanted to give up at some point. What if they had?
In short, suicide is very much against most, if not all, our basic instincts. Therefore if someone wishes to do it, I wager chances are it's to a large degree a mental thing that could be changed.
I for one would not want to be involved in helping someone end that potential.
Disclaimer: I did not win the genetic lottery. I am suffering from a list of things and I have had several years at a time where I had regular thoughts of suicide and I have called a helpline even.
We either need a society that gives us *SOME* option for helping care for our basic mental health, or we need to allow people to self-terminate. This idea that you need to suffer forever / until 'natural' death, or have to hook yourself into medical machines to force life into your barely breathing corpse in some cases, without any form of support beyond, "We'll keep ya alive, rest is up to you," isn't a boon to humans. It's a punishment. Suffer, suffer, suffer some more. Just don't die. Dying is naughty. T
Re: It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:1)
Why can't you use persuasion instead of the law?
May I say that I too have suffered deppression ever since I can remember, and wish I had had the guts to end it all back when I first thought seriously of suicide at eight, and 52 years later I have no reason to change my mind?
Can you imagine how much pain and suffering I could have saved myself and the poor people who've had to put up with me for all these wasted years?
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Right and we have already seen people in their 20s! Seek assisted suicide for depression. That isn't someone who we should help die, that is someone we should help! Then you have all the issues of guilt/family/etc that might lead someone to feel pressured to end their life who does not really want to because they believe rightly or wrongly they are seen as a burden. This is before we get into outright malicious and greedy thinking which might have certain people pressured to end it all so someone can inher
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HINT: It's because we live in a society in which a significant portion believe in a fairy tale, which proclaims that humans are the only animals special enough to not be allowed to terminate the lives of themselves or others, except for particular circumstances (such as government-sanction executions, and war) that those same believers will resort to mental gymnastics to avoid questioning.
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The ruling class makes life unbearable (Score:1)
The risk is that if suicide is normalized people who come to realize that there's nothing left but endless toil in a tiny, filthy apartment with periodic bouts of homelessness and constant stress and hunger will just say "screw this noise, I'm otta here".
China has suicide nets, but the rest of the world just makes it a crime.
Neither country tries to make life worth living for everyone because, well, what good is being rich if nobody is poor?
Re: It should be legal to kill yourself (Score:2)
"Not sure where you were that your grandparents didn't get any palliative care"
Probably Mother Teresa
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Well, I always have second thoughts about the animals I put to sleep. At the same time, it's my perception they were suffering and not going to get better. But doubts always linger.
For humans, assuming we have the mental capacity to make the call, no one involved will have second thoughts.
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After some review from medical professionals, it should be legal.
My cat had severe cancer and was suffering. We were able to kill her without a second thought and it was what was best. My mother-in-law had to go to "hospice" and starve herself to death while suffering from internal bleeding in her lungs from stage 4 lung cancer. It was brutal, traumatic, and 100% unnecessary. My grandfather had to do the same.
Why do humans like suffering so much?
Honestly, I wonder if our practise of euthanizing pets has more to do with our suffering than theirs. There certainly are people with terminal illnesses who choose to end things early, but I think most hold on till the end. If pets were capable of an informed choice I suspect they would come to the same conclusion.
I hope I'm not making anyone feel guilty for euthanizing, it is a terrible quality of life for the pet, and watching them suffer is awful for the owner. I just mean to point out that we're using v
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It is legal to kill yourself. You aren't prosecuted for 'unlawful attempted suicide' if you fail and survive. What illegal (in many places) is for others to provide assistance in the suicide.
Suicide is not allowed (Score:2, Troll)
Because in our current form of government, you have a debt to society to repay which is immediately placed over your head when you are born.
1. The State (apologies to Larry Niven) expects their cut in taxes over your lifetime.
2. The capitalists expect their cut in the form of your labor to make their profits. They have paid to have laws enacted to ensure this continues to happen.
Therefore, you have 2 choices:
1. Live to work
2. Live a vagrant life
Suicide reduces the rate of return on the governments "Investme
Re: Suicide is not allowed (Score:1)
Haven't they criminalized homelessness too?
Diminished Capacity... (Score:2, Insightful)
Most of us seem to feel that governments should not be deciding this for us...
But we can all have this discussion now while we're of sound mind and body and argue both sides.
The problem is when someone chooses suicide, they are often in a diminished capacity, whether due to depression, ongoing pain, cult membership, ... Making suicide easy will affect those who are vulnerable from the diminished capacity.
In addition, in for-profit medicine and insurance, offering suicide will often be much cheaper than offe
Re: Diminished Capacity... (Score:1)
What if you let people post uncensored suicide ideation and monitored it so you could use your words to fight their impaired thoughts? Or is it too exhausting to lie that much?
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Just got a look at a picture of it. (Score:2)
That'd be a very hard capsule to swallow.
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[Face palm]
In Alabama, soon in jail near you... (Score:1)
Children of Men (Score:3)
From "Children of Men"
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Re: Children of Men (Score:2)
Suicide kits in "On the Beach", too.
BTW - OTB is one of Patton Oswalt's "Worst Science Fiction Movies".
So as a MSTie, it became a must-watch for me. It's not THAT bad. I've certainly seen worse. Just looks like a product of its time.
Be careful what you wish for (Score:2)
It has to be tightly controlled or you get people offing themselves because they are temporarily depressed and could be helped, someone insists their spouse, who is unresponsive, wanted to die in this condition. Their 3rd spouse to insist on this so far...
So it's still the Japanese way (Score:2)
Rent a small utility vehicle with an enclosed back.
Put a mattress in there, a bottle of scotch and light the char-coal grill.