Bhutan, After Prioritizing Happiness, Now Faces an Existential Crisis (cbsnews.com) 72
Bhutan, the tiny kingdom that introduced Gross National Happiness to the world, has a problem: young people are leaving the country in record numbers. CNN: The country boasts free health care, free education, a rising life expectancy and an economy that's grown over the last 30 years -- still, people are leaving. Prime Minister Tshering Tobgay believes it is ironically the success of Gross National Happiness that has made young Bhutanese so sought after abroad. "It is an existential crisis," he said.
Bhutan, which is about the size of Maryland, was largely isolated from the rest of the world for centuries. The kingdom was so protective of its unique Buddhist culture that it only started allowing foreign tourists to visit in the 1970s and didn't introduce television until 1999. Buddhism is the country's national religion. Bhutanese, especially older men and women, spend hours spinning prayer wheels full of Buddhist scriptures. Prayer flags flutter on hillsides and in forests, turning nature itself into a shrine. Bhutan's capital city of Thimpu still has no traffic lights. The nation's roads are shared by cars and cows.
Bhutan, which is about the size of Maryland, was largely isolated from the rest of the world for centuries. The kingdom was so protective of its unique Buddhist culture that it only started allowing foreign tourists to visit in the 1970s and didn't introduce television until 1999. Buddhism is the country's national religion. Bhutanese, especially older men and women, spend hours spinning prayer wheels full of Buddhist scriptures. Prayer flags flutter on hillsides and in forests, turning nature itself into a shrine. Bhutan's capital city of Thimpu still has no traffic lights. The nation's roads are shared by cars and cows.
Wrong kind of happiness (Score:2)
Mindless happiness spinning prayer wheels doesn't compare to actually experiencing life and sharing those experiences with friends.
Once you see there is more to do, discontent is going to set in and a percentage of people are going to do something about it.
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I strongly doubt spinning prayer wheels is the end all be all of both their happiness and how they spend their lives.
Re:Wrong kind of happiness (Score:4, Interesting)
They've been running the country as the Buddist equivalent of a Mennonite community. People see what's going on outside their borders, and want to experience it.
Of course, they have no idea we're no happier because we're used to all this stuff, but they'll figure it out.
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Also mindless spinning prayer wheels is *exactly* what the Buddha didn't want you to do. Totally missed the original point of his teachings, which is to actually experience life in more depth and awareness.
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That... That tracks. It's not like there are any other revered instructions out there that are 'followed' contrary to their obvious intent.
I imagine there are lifetimes' worth of studies to be done on why humans inevitably do that.
So asian amish ... (Score:4, Interesting)
People aren't leaving because they are happy they are leaving because they are beginning to understand that there is a big wide world out there with wonders that they cannot even imagine exist yet ..... they're leaving for the same reason young people are leaving the amish world.
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> leaving for the same reason young people are leaving the amish world.
Most Amish youth stay, actually. It's why the Amish population is quickly expanding. They learned from the Catholics: if you can't recruit because your cult is too culty, then perform mass mitosis. However, they face multiple genetic diseases due to inbreeding.
Re: dunno man (Score:2)
The really inbred ones stay home (or work for Jayco building travel trailers.)
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The inbred ones gallop or fly on their own.
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The average salary in Bhutan is $400/month, according to Google. They are probably leaving because they can earn a lot more overseas, with their free education.
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I don't think it's just about money. Sure, they make $400/month, but $400 can go a long way in many places. Yeah, a computer costs about the same in all places, so making more than $400/month can ease buying a computer, but do they all need computers? If you look at this hierarchy of needs [mindisthemaster.com], the question becomes are all their needs met? Perhaps the answer is that they are, but not at the levels they feel they'd be comfortable. I suspect a big cause of the migration is the Internet and the thought proces
Re: So asian amish ... (Score:2)
"Yeah, a computer costs about the same in all places"
No, it does not. It will get closer soon though when tariffs hit the US like they have the EU
Not so sunny (Score:5, Interesting)
Bhutan has a pretty abysmal human rights record, including having done ethnic cleansing [wikipedia.org].
Also, young people want economic opportunity and freedom, which may not be so readily available in Bhutan.
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Well sunny now. Imagine how happy everyone is when can't be racist anymore since there's no one to be racist to.
misleading intro (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that schools were taught in english provided a skilled workforce, and COVID-19 suppression of tourism caused massive job loss resulting in the outmigration to countries with jobs and good wages.
It is the tourism job dependence that caused the loss of population, not the 'happiness index' focus.
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Would mod up if I had points. This makes, by far, the most sense. The idea "people are so happy here now, they all leave" is utter nonsense.
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I think you're missing that there's an angle. This news story isn't coming from nowhere.
The person saying this is the Prime Minister who just assumed office while being the main opposition when this (still popular) policy was drafted. And since Bhutan remains a Monarchy with only a facade of democracy, he can't be seen to oppose a policy that King Wangchuck has directly supported, if he wants to end the program and instead implement his more socialist reforms of focusing more on agricultural productivenes
Young people (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Young people (Score:5, Interesting)
"Don't want to live in a religious theocracy."
I wonder where the young people in the USA will move to , after Project 2025 gets going.
Re:Young people (Score:4, Insightful)
"Don't want to live in a religious theocracy."
I wonder where the young people in the USA will move to , after Project 2025 gets going.
Canada?
It has happened before: United Empire Loyalists, African-heritage slaves, Vietnam draft-dodgers.
My kid my end up fleeing (Score:4, Insightful)
For me I'm too old and beat up to leave or I'd probably head for the UK.
It's possible a combination of incompetence and resistance will see us through the next 4 years, but there's a real effort going on to consolidate power so that us little guys don't get a say anymore.
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Given how much of a say the Democrats gave the voters in the last two primaries I'm not sure the little guys on that side get a say anyway.
As for the department of non-education, they've failed consistently since they were formed. Good riddance to the whole bunch.
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Project 2025 basically scuttles their plans for grad school. No more department of education. They've got their bachelor's, not sure if that'll be enough though.
Please explain how the Federal Department of Education is required to enroll/attend graduate school?
So your kid may flee to another country because he can't/won't be able to find work with only a bachelors degree? Curious what useless bachelors degree your child got...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The real question is will there be Civil War 2, or will both sides agree to split without a full conflict? Almost half the North felt they should have let the South go back then, seeing them as stubborn trouble-makers, and that looks about right to me.
Re:Young people (Score:4, Insightful)
The real question is will there be Civil War 2, or will both sides agree to split without a full conflict? Almost half the North felt they should have let the South go back then, seeing them as stubborn trouble-makers, and that looks about right to me.
You're assuming the red states would let the blue states go.
How would the red states be economically viable without the blue?
Re: Young people (Score:2)
You're assuming they can afford to complain.
All we have to do is stop paying taxes and they will go broke. And they are defunding the IRS...
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So what? Money doesn't buy the oval office.
Kamala [newsweek.com] and Hillary [usatoday.com] each burned thru a billion dollars and wound up with about $20 million in debt, only to lose to Trump, who spent a fraction (about half) of what either spent.
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Why would the red states want to keep us "faggy blue-haired commie woke-ster" states?
Torture? Okay, you have a point there. Troglodytes miss that Salem Trials stuff.
No Civil War, the Red States like Blue Money (Score:2)
The real question is will there be Civil War 2, or will both sides agree to split without a full conflict? Almost half the North felt they should have let the South go back then, seeing them as stubborn trouble-makers, and that looks about right to me.
What the South doesn't realize is that the North is keeping them afloat in nearly every regard. If the blue states split off from the red ones and had an economic embargo, every red state that doesn't produce oil would be FUCKED. Texas, OK, WY etc...they'd be rattled, but recover because crude oil is valuable. However, the blue states would have to ramp up manufacturing, causing an employment boom here for blue collar work. We'd pay more for fuel, but it's an internationally traded commodity, so OPEC wo
Re: No Civil War, the Red States like Blue Money (Score:2)
"I don't think Americans are stupid enough to fight another civil war"
All evidence is to the contrary. Remember, it only takes one side to decide there will be conflict.
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If you don't have a degree (and sometimes, even if you do), life can be pretty tough here. The main challenge that the US has is the only product we can successfully export is US government debt. This is a self-perpetuating problem. The massive
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The real question is will there be Civil War 2, or will both sides agree to split without a full conflict?
Given what the expression "civil war" literally means, rather than its figurative usage all too common nowadays, in light of the current US population, a real Civil War 2 would mean something around 9,000 deaths -- roughly three World Trade Centers -- per day of conflict, for a grand total of about 1% of the US population dying per year, for as long as the conflict lasted. This number includes both direct in-action deaths (about 3,000/day), as well as indirect deaths due to famines, plagues, diseases, and t
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I wonder where the young people in the USA will move to , after Project 2025 gets going.
What do you mean project 2025? You literally have "In God We Trust" written on you money. You are revoking women's rights in the name of religious nutjobs. Many states have laws that insist on labelling evolution as a theory, and one state which tried to mandate the 10 commandments be listed in every classroom.
Anyone still in the USA has already concepted the idea that the Church is the state.
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one state which tried to mandate the 10 commandments be listed in every classroom.
Not just one. [usatoday.com]
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Project 2025 is not going anywhere. It's just not implementable in the U.S. Trump possibly appointing one of the authors [go.com] to some position does not mean there'll be any push to implement it in any way. Like he said during his debate with Harris, he thinks there's some good things in there, and some he doesn't agree with. Don't believe the hype that Project 2025 is on the agenda.
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It's like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. We keep underestimating the level of toxicity that Trump can to show, and then act surprised when it happens.
As others have said about Trump: don't listen to what he says, watch what he does.
Project 2025 was drawn up by a group of people that include numerous former members of his staff. I find it very hard to believe that it "is not going anywhere."
Re: Young people (Score:2)
"It's just not implementable in the U.S."
That's what people thought about hiring an actor to be president. Now we've done it three times with two different guys.
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"It's just not implementable in the U.S."
That's what people thought about hiring an actor to be president. Now we've done it three times with two different guys.
Trump isn't really an "actor", he's more of a "personality", but that's a distinction without a difference.
As for Reagan, you do realize he was President of the Screen Actor's Guild, and then Governor of California, and both times was considered effective in his job.
And your count is off - "Now we've done it FOUR times with two different guys." Both Reagan and Trump were re-elected.
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To be fair, Trump is definitely not the same caliber Reagan was. At least Reagan believed in conservative values. Trump is in it for himself. An nothing precludes actors from becoming presidents, obviously, and shouldn't. Saying otherwise is bigoted and elitist.
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Re:Young people (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Young people (Score:4, Insightful)
Even Buddhists can become crappy people, as seen in Myanmar [wikipedia.org]. Any sort of religious system has the potential of creating in-groups and out-groups.
Re: Buddhists gone bad in Myanmar (Score:2)
True, but Buddhists have a much better overall track record than Christians and Muslims. The secret is focusing on fixing yourself instead of others. Busybodies Break Blissful Balance.
Re: Buddhists gone bad in Myanmar (Score:2)
"The secret is focusing on fixing yourself instead of others."
Ok, what does that have to do with Christians? They've got the most missionaries.
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The secret to peace, I didn't mean growth.
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While your conclusion is correct, your syllogism to arrive at it is not. Plenty of perfectly normal non-religious things are not evidence-based
Is cooking a lasagna for my family evidence based? No I just follow a recipe I've been given. Is it a religion?
If I play games with my friends for fun, is that some evidence based assessment of what's best for me? No.
When I got married(A very important thing to do right, you'll agree), did I consult some careful analysis of what kinds of pairings make the happiest
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[*nitpick*] GP did not state a syllogism, nor did you.
A syllogism is two premise-statements, followed by a third "therefore"-statement that ties them together in a conclusion. There is no "if" in a syllogism. Here's an example:
1. An ape is a primate that lacks a tail.
2. Humans are primates that lack tails.
3. Therefore, humans are apes.
Re: (Score:2)
1. An ape is a primate that lacks a tail.
2. Humans are primates that lack tails.
3. Therefore, humans are apes.
Well, your syllogism is broken, because your first premise is reversed.
If an ape is a tailless primate, it doesn't mean that all tailless primates are apes. It means that apes are included in the primates with no tail category, not that tailless primates are included in the apes category. There may be other types of tailless primates that are not apes.
You should have said
All primates that lack a tail are apes
All humans are primates that have a tail
Therefore all humans are apes
which would be a nice Barbara s
Re: (Score:2)
Drat, typo, sorry
Of course, the second line of my syllogism should be
All humans are primates that lack a tail
Isn't it fun when you try to correct somebody and make your own mistakes? And I did preview too.
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Isn't it fun when you try to correct somebody and make your own mistakes? And I did preview too.
Happens to me all the time. Thanks for the improvement, mistakes and all.
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The funny thing is after hitting preview, I decided to go back and change "reasoning" to "syllogism" because I was engaging with the unstated premise that "all things that are not evidence-based are religion".
You are correct, the actual deduction is not flawed, just the premises.
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First off, your example syllogism is faulty. You've committed the fallacy of the undistributed middle. By the same logic we could say:
1. Cardinals are birds that have red feathers.
2. Robins are birds that have red feathers.
3. Therefore, robins are cardinals.
To be a valid syllogism, your major premise needed to be: "All primates that lack tails are apes", which properly distributes your middle term.
Second, the OP implied a syllogism. Stated more formally, it is:
1. Any belief system that is not evidence-ba
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Yeah, I messed up my example. Someone else beat you to pointing it out though.
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"1. Cardinals are birds that have red feathers."
I always thought that Cardinals were the top level of Clergy of the religion based in Rome, and they occasionally elect one of their members to be the Primate (usually after the previous one has died)
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calling Buddhism a theocracy is hilarious. There are a lot of Buddhists that also practice other religions, because unlink most religions it is a set of practices and not a set of beliefs.
Maybe that's because, according to some, Buddhism isn't strictly a religion. There's no formal deity. It's more of a spiritual discipline.
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Scientology doesn't have deities but nobody has a problem with calling it a religion.
Scientology very much wanted (and wants) to call itself a religion, in order to gain the concomitant tax-advantages.
Not a theocracy. (Score:2)
Of course Bhutan isn't a theocracy but don't let reality slow you down.
The monarch is the head of the state and then they have a prime minister and an elected legislative body.
Measuring nappiness (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_in_Bhutan.
You can't buy happiness (Score:2)
And happiness doesn't buy stuff.
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And Joy didn't win the election [nymag.com]
Questionable headline (Score:2)
Bhutan, After Prioritizing Happiness, Now Faces an Existential Crisis
The headline invites the reader to see the departure as a (failed) referendum on Happiness... whereas:
The kingdom was so protective of its unique Buddhist culture that it only started allowing foreign tourists to visit in the 1970s and didn't introduce television until 1999. Buddhism is the country's national religion. Bhutanese, especially older men and women, spend hours spinning prayer wheels full of Buddhist scriptures.
... I wonder if instead the exposure to outside ideas, lifestyles, merchandise, and indeed the realistic freedom to leave might be getting young people interested in what lies beyond.
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Did you miss the point that msmash posted the story? She is challenged to connect the headline to the actual story, most around here just let it roll off our back...
"..hours spinning prayer wheels"? (Score:2)
Has Rick Sanchez visited this country, maybe disguised as an alien?