Crypto Entrepreneur Eats $6 Million Banana on Stage (ft.com) 70
Crypto entrepreneur Justin Sun consumed Maurizio Cattelan's "Comedian" artwork -- a banana taped to a wall -- during an event in Hong Kong on Friday, declaring "the real value is the concept itself." Sun, founder of cryptocurrency platform Tron, purchased the piece for $6.2 million at Sotheby's last week, significantly above its $1-1.5 million estimate.
The acquisition included only a certificate of authenticity and assembly instructions, not the physical banana or tape. The Chinese-born entrepreneur, who faces SEC charges over fraud and securities violations, made the payment in cryptocurrency.
The acquisition included only a certificate of authenticity and assembly instructions, not the physical banana or tape. The Chinese-born entrepreneur, who faces SEC charges over fraud and securities violations, made the payment in cryptocurrency.
So... (Score:1)
He just ate a banana he got at the nearest greengrocer? This is news?
Re: So... (Score:1)
Re: So... (Score:5, Interesting)
He's under investigation by the SEC for fraud.
The obvious explanation is that this was a straw sale to move $6M to where the SEC can't seize it.
Re: (Score:2)
He's under investigation by the SEC for fraud.
The obvious explanation is that this was a straw sale to move $6M to where the SEC can't seize it.
That was my thinking too, or a pay(ment|off), bribe, etc... to someone.
Re: So... (Score:2)
It was already a crypto transaction and little the SEC/FTC/whatever can do.
Re: (Score:2)
He's under investigation by the SEC for fraud.
The obvious explanation is that this was a straw sale to move $6M to where the SEC can't seize it.
Yes, but think of the clicks!
Fitting (Score:5, Informative)
>>The Chinese-born entrepreneur, who faces SEC charges over fraud and securities violations, made the payment in cryptocurrency.
So he paid for one ridiculously overpriced asset with another ridiculously overpriced asset.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is all the stupid money going into crypto is causing stupid money to be spent stupidly.
Sure, while for art it only really affects a few people, when it spills over it gets silly.
(The art world is full of wash trades - there are people who will bid on artwork just to keep its price up because in the end, no sane person would pay anywhere close to that price. The entire reason for this is to keep the value high and hope no one liquidates it).
A similar issue applies for crypto - Bitcoin is only wor
Re:Fitting (Score:5, Informative)
Worse. He paid for one imaginary asset that is easily copied with another imaginary asset that is easily copied.
Re:Fitting (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
>>The Chinese-born entrepreneur, who faces SEC charges over fraud and securities violations, made the payment in cryptocurrency.
So he paid for one ridiculously overpriced asset with another ridiculously overpriced asset.
Stories like this are the surest indication that we are near an economic top. L now, and prepare to go short when the time comes.
Re: (Score:2)
The best part is that he sees this collectible as an investment and expects a greater fool to pay even more.
Finally, Sane Crypto Valuations (Score:2)
So he paid for one ridiculously overpriced asset with another ridiculously overpriced asset.
Yes, but at least now we have a more sane-sounding way to value crypto using the banana scale. At today's prices 1 bitcoin is worth about 0.016 bananas, or 1 banana costs ~62 bitcoin which after years of insanity in the crypto markets finally sounds like a reasonable value for a bitcoin.
Not sure about the rest of the world (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason for the silly prices for things that aren't really art was because of tax evasion.
The way the scam worked was you bought a piece of "art" for $1 million and now there's a market for that art so it's worth 6 million now because clearly someone will pay that much then you donated to some foundation or another and get a $6 million dollar write off on your taxes that translates into 3 million dollars in your pocket.
The IRS closed that loophole. That's why if you remember NFT is going crazy it was because a bunch of people thought they could maneuver NFTs through that loophole. The IRS said no and that's when they crashed.
Re: (Score:2)
But in America that thing isn't worth $6 million dollars.....The reason for the silly prices for things that aren't really art was because of tax evasion.
So basically he can claim a 6 million loss on his taxes. It would be nice if regular working people could write off food consumed as capital losses, but our tax code favors the rich, so I already know the answer.
Re: (Score:2)
It will be nice if instead he got bundled off to the loon asylum and given forced electroshock treatment.
"Woah! I didn't see that one coming!"
Cancelling Insanities: The Banana Scale (Score:2)
But in America that thing isn't worth $6 million dollars.
True, but he paid for it with things like bitcoin that are noth worth ~$100k either so in this case the two insanities more or less cancel out and if we now value all crypto on the newly established banana-scale we will have values that final make sense.
Peak 2024 (Score:1)
A man overpays for what amounts to an NFT of an art piece with assets acquired from dodgy crypto, eats an unrelated banana and declares that value lies in the concept.
Who else had "sublime epitome of end-stage capitalism" on their bingo card? Anyone?
He was speaking literally (Score:5, Insightful)
The acquisition included only a certificate of authenticity and assembly instructions, not the physical banana or tape. The Chinese-born entrepreneur, who faces SEC charges over fraud and securities violations, made the payment in cryptocurrency.
This is actually a performance art piece and the buyers are part of the performance, and buying the thing with cryptocurrency is ideally in the spirit of the whole thing because it's even more theatrical than using fiat currency.
Re: (Score:2)
That's your conception of art, is it?
Re: (Score:2)
That's your conception of art, is it?
Art is anything done solely to be creative, for any reason. Philosophical, commercial, personal satisfaction, whatever, so you really only need the part I emphasized.
I don't know that the world particularly needed further proof that art is subjective and what you get out of it is personal, or that capitalism is invented bullshit and can be used for multiple purposes. I think most of the people who were going to get that already got it. But I'm also not going to shit on someone for creating something that c
Proof (Score:5, Insightful)
If this isn't proof our economic system is insane, I don't know what could be.
Re: (Score:2)
As rsilvergun mentioned above, you cannot just write off art based on purchase price in the US [irs.gov],* the IRS employs appraisers and they will decide what art is worth. And the higher the art is valued, the more likely it is that they will audit. But in terms of making profit, things are still worth whatever you can sell them for.
* Yes, I know the link is about charitable donations, but it still speaks to valuation.
Re: (Score:2)
While it may be possible to do such "legitimately", CRA will see red flags waving when the value of the gift or art is large.
You're going to have to justify the value of the claimed tax deduction... a certificate of authenticity likely won't cut it.
Re: (Score:1)
What people do not understand is:
I *earn* $6,000,000 - I am taxed for that amount. Let it be for easy math 50%. So I am supposed to pay $3,000,000.
And I have $3,000,000 left on my bank account.
So, big bright idea: I buy some shit, and "compensate" the price of $6,000,000 with my "earnings". So, I pay no taxes on the $6,000,000, and have an item "worth" $6,000,000
And my bank account is empty.
You do not save $6,000,000 in taxes with those schemes. Even if the scheme half assed works, your savings are minimal.
Re:Proof (Score:5, Interesting)
Capitalism is a great motivator of productivity, but it does not come with guardrails.
We need to define a wealth floor and a wealth ceiling, based on what we as a society can afford and what kind of wealth gap and concentration we collectively determine are fair, and then have wealth taxes and universal income payments to keep things reasonable.
No one person should control a billion dollars. I'd argue the cap should be well below 10 million. As soon as you can stop working yet maintain a median lifestyle for the remainder of your days, that should be about where the cap is.
Re: (Score:2)
OK, well below 10 million. How well below 10 million? Be specific please.
ps - 'we as a society can afford' implies that 'society' has an ownership stake in an individual's wealth. I disagree.
Re: (Score:2)
So you believe individual wealth is created in a vacuum?
That when someone "builds a railroad" they dug the coal and iron ore, smelted the iron in their back yard? Made a hammer and hammered the iron into tracks and spikes, cut down timber with the axe they made, etc. etc. etc. All by their own hand?
Re: Proof (Score:1)
That's an absurd argument. If you can't make any more sense than that, perhaps you should let the adults consider these things. It's infantile.
Re: (Score:2)
That seems to be YOUR argument. If you find that absurd, perhaps you need to better define in what way people accumulate great wealth while owing the surrounding society nothing.
Re: Proof (Score:2)
You have to be carried to this, okay. So someone who's probably acquired some wealth already, and can attract more wealth to fully fund the effort, decides they want to build a railroad. How and why are it important to you? So we'll set that aside for now. But they will have to arrange for right of way, probably pay for it. All the way. They won't lay the track. They won't cart the ballast and the rails and the ties and all the hardware. They certainly won't be wielding any tools. However, they will hire an
Re: (Score:2)
The railroad is a good example. Generally the government gives the right of way along with surrounding areas (CPR got 10 miles on either side of the right of way) to the industrialist along with various other things including the army to protect the business, which includes breaking any strikes if those workers organize and try to get enough to feed their family and have save working conditions. This allows the industrialist to easily raise the money to build and if the industrialist screws up, the governme
Re: (Score:2)
Dryeo covered a lot of it. In addition, you don't think the courts enforcing contracts, police providing security, a lot of infrastructure for the transportation of materials and such were worth anything? The laws that say someone else coming along can't just use the tracks as their own?
Not to mention all of the people who if they were truly free to value their labor at it's worth unfettered by desperation would have demanded a lot better pay.
Re: (Score:2)
No one person should control a billion dollars.
Genuine question here: Why?
Standard thought exercise: If you could create a battery with your own hands from materials located on your own property and you sold 10 billion of them for $1 each, then should you be prevented from becoming a billionaire? If so, how do you encourage the production of batteries?
Re: (Score:2)
At the rate of $6 million per banana that rich person won't be rich much longer. It's a self correcting problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Musk could keep it up for at least 30 years (likely double that) at a banana a day, likely longer now that he can control government, and still have more money then a honest person would ever acquire.
Re: (Score:2)
how old is the banana? (Score:2)
So the "banana" didn't go bad? Can't be the same banana.
This is fraud.
So If I eat a banana on stage I'm a performance artist?
Jeebus, the bar for performance art is so low these days. Whatever happend to wrapping an entire island in plastic wrap?
Re: how old is the banana? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"some assembly required"
<apologies to developmentally handicapped people>
My parting shot still stands: the bar for (even) performance art is lowered below the lowest low I could imagine... he bought the instructions, and a certificate of authenticity. This almost stands to reason: even peformance art has become virtualized?
Ahhh, decadence... (Score:3)
Why do so many news stories and cultural observations lately remind me of the extravagant decadence which preceded the fall of the Roman empire? I wish I could say that paying $6M for instructions to tape a banana to a wall was the pinnacle of such derangement, but it isn't even close.
Besides, how would Steve Austin, (the Lee Majors character, NOT the wrestler), feel about playing second banana to, well, an actual banana?
Lee Majors (Score:2)
Did he eat it in slow motion?
Re: (Score:3)
Why do so many news stories and cultural observations lately remind me of the extravagant decadence which preceded the fall of the Roman empire?
Most of the "extravagant decadence" we usually associate with the Roman empire-- Nero, Caligula, Tiberius-- occurred during the rise of the Roman empire, not the fall.
Read Suetonius for details.
Re: (Score:2)
350 years to fall. You have to rise up foolishly to a height where you can even have a great fall. The seeds of failure are often planted on the way up.
Re: (Score:2)
So, if we equate the current situation in the US as equivalent to the reign of Caligula, we should expect the fall of the US empire somewhere around the year 2450.
OK, I'll put that on my calendar.
Re: (Score:2)
if he did pay in crypto, perhaps it shows how little value cryptos have.
Re: (Score:2)
the extravagant decadence which preceded the fall of the Roman empire?
The Western Roman Empire lasted for three centuries after peak decadence.
The Eastern Roman Empire lasted for another thirteen centuries.
Re: (Score:3)
the extravagant decadence which preceded the fall of the Roman empire?
The Western Roman Empire lasted for three centuries after peak decadence.
The Eastern Roman Empire lasted for another thirteen centuries.
Schooled by both you and Geoffrey.landis - I guess I need some history lessons. Thanks for the corrections.
US Healthcare Costs (Score:2)
Besides, how would Steve Austin, (the Lee Majors character, NOT the wrestler), feel about playing second banana
Have you looked an US healthcare costs recently? He would have nothing to worry about...
Re: (Score:2)
People are hurting for money, losing their homes, and we got rich Tardmeister playing with bananas on stage and fucking around with huge sums of money like some damn fever dream.
Ordinary people in the meantime are growling, and reaching their hand ever closer to their knives and guns.
Tardmeister should've stuck that banana right up his own ass.
"the real value is the concept itself" (Score:2)
Could someone please explain the valuable concept? I don't get it.
Re: (Score:2)
Could someone please explain the valuable concept? I don't get it.
What was purchased is the assembly instructions and the certificate of authenticity. I don't know how it could be explained any more than a dance, a piece of music or any other form of art. BBC's "Who's Afraid of Conceptual Art" is a good introduction to conceptual art https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Crapwork (Score:2)
"" artwork -- a banana taped to a wall"
This isn't "art". And a good share of modern "art" is moronic and complete crap. The "art world" can clutch their perals all they want over what I'm saying, but I call it as I see it.
If it was a new banana, this guy owes $0.26 USD going by Walmart's price I just looked up.
Bad post - disregard (Score:2)
Better Gesture? (Score:1)
Would it not have been a better gesture, to freeze the banana, fly to a starving area in Africa, and parachute down. Wait two minutes, cut it into 10 or 12 slices, and feed 10 dying babies with the words: half a million for you! ???
Re: (Score:2)
Would it not have been a better gesture, to freeze the banana, fly to a starving area in Africa, and parachute down. Wait two minutes, cut it into 10 or 12 slices, and feed 10 dying babies with the words: half a million for you! ???
Not a bad idea, but as a concept I think it's a hard sell as it's difficult to perform and would probably remain a thought experiment and as such it's not really that interesting. As a performance artwork would you be able to pull it off and document it I'd bet good money it would be worth half a million at least.
Estimate vs actual. (Score:2)
Tron, purchased the piece for $6.2 million at Sotheby's last week, significantly above its $1-1.5 million estimate.
All those number seem way too high for this.
He didn't really buy the banana... (Score:1)
...he just licensed the artwork.
Nobody owns anything anymore, even crypto bros :)
Relieved (Score:2)
At least he ate it by the mouth.
When i read "on stage" and "conceptual art" i got worried a bit.
Why people suck (Score:2)
Imagine what he COULD have done with six million dollars to help folks who can really use it.
Instead of some stupid stunt like this.
I think the Earth is long overdue for another Dinosaur class asteroid :|
No Funny at all? (Score:2)
Such a ripe target. The banana, too.
I rather hope the artist just retires on his big joke.
Yuck (Score:1)