EPA Lets California Set Its Own Stricter Emissions Standards Until 2035 (arstechnica.com) 66
The US Environmental Protection Agency has granted a pair of waivers to California, allowing the Golden State to continue regulating vehicle-caused air pollution within its borders. From a report: The first is for the California Air Resources Board's Advanced Clean Cars II regulations, which apply to light- and medium-duty vehicles like passenger cars, SUVs, and smaller trucks. The second waiver is for regulations that control the amount of nitrogen oxides (NOx) that can be emitted by heavy-duty vehicles as well as off-road vehicles.
The Clean Air Act allows states to apply for a waiver from the EPA to set their own emissions standards in cases where the federal regulations are insufficient to prevent deleterious pollution. The state applied for the latest waivers late in 2023, and after a public comment period and then a review by the agency, the EPA decided to approve them.
"California has longstanding authority to request waivers from EPA to protect its residents from dangerous air pollution coming from mobile sources like cars and trucks," said EPA Administrator Michael Regan. "Today's actions follow through on EPA's commitment to partner with states to reduce emissions and act on the threat of climate change."
The Clean Air Act allows states to apply for a waiver from the EPA to set their own emissions standards in cases where the federal regulations are insufficient to prevent deleterious pollution. The state applied for the latest waivers late in 2023, and after a public comment period and then a review by the agency, the EPA decided to approve them.
"California has longstanding authority to request waivers from EPA to protect its residents from dangerous air pollution coming from mobile sources like cars and trucks," said EPA Administrator Michael Regan. "Today's actions follow through on EPA's commitment to partner with states to reduce emissions and act on the threat of climate change."
And we're so glad (Score:2, Troll)
that you left.
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If you're so fond of breathing a lot of car emissions why not just breathe straight from the exhaust for a few minutes?
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Preferably in a closed garage.
Re:So glad (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, so we're not cheering for "states rights" on this measure?
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Because clear, breathable, air and healthier kids are things we run away from?
https://archive.ph/XZYSt [archive.ph]
Maybe you lived in the smog and it damaged your brain.
https://www.scientificamerican... [scientificamerican.com]
So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevada (Score:1)
Then register and drive it in California
Re:So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevad (Score:5, Interesting)
Difficulty: No manufacturer is going to run separate production lines just to sell in California, so effectively all cars sold in the US will comply with California emissions standards.
Difficulty 2: Enforcement also happens registration stage, and at annual inspections. Even if you skirt the sales prohibition by buying out of state, you're not registering it in California unless it complies with emissions regulations.
=Smidge=
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Difficulty: No manufacturer is going to run separate production lines just to sell in California, so effectively all cars sold in the US will comply with California emissions standards.
The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.
Difficulty 2: Enforcement also happens registration stage, and at annual inspections. Even if you skirt the sales prohibition by buying out of state, you're not registering it in California unless it complies with emissions regulations.
California isn't allowed to do that. Vehicles brought in from other states are tested to different standards. California CAN however deny registration of brand new vehicles (identified as having less than 7,500 miles on them) purchased in another state unless you were a resident of that state and then moved here. If you were a California resident at the time of purchase, you cannot register such a vehicle he
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There are some manufacturers that used different hardware on CARB spec vehicles until it became cost prohibitive, after which point they standardized around CARB spec. Early model years of the VW NMS Passat are an example.
If CARB passes regs that are too draconian, it may be impossible to reconcile differences between CARB and EPA emissions requirements while producing vehicles that many Americans would actually be willing to buy.
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Or... you could register it in West Virginia or Vermont, which allow vehicle registrations from anywhere in the country.
Classic car guys have been using this loophole for years.
While you might be able to get away with driving a vehicle with out-of-state plates in CA, there might be a CA law requiring residents to register their vehicles in CA. IANAL, so the usual disclaimers apply. Whether the law would be enforced or not probably depends on where in CA you live.
Re: So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Neva (Score:2)
Your last paragraph kind of sums up my response, yeah. California looks down on that sort of thing. I suspect the response will have mostly to do with what the cops in a specific area think of the person in question, since once the DMV is notified they treat everyone like dirt.
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> The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.
That's still in essence a different production line. Nobody's gonna make a bespoke California compliant version; they're all gonna be the same for mass-market vehicles. The only (modern) vehicles I've ever heard of that aren't "50-state" compliant are high performance dick-compensation trucks and customs.
> California isn't allowed to do that.
Incorrect; Any vehicle not meeting the narrowly defined exe
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> The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.
That's still in essence a different production line.
No, it is not that at all. It is literally just a different ECU setting.
> California isn't allowed to do that.
Incorrect; Any vehicle not meeting the narrowly defined exemption criteria needs a smog test (or if new enough, a pay smog fee for the first few years) to be registered in California.
The vehicle has to comply with emissions regulations no matter where it is sold, whether there is regular compliance testing or not. There are federal requirements. They regulate allowable emissions, they just don't typically do any testing. They leave it up to state to do it or not.
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> No, it is not that at all. It is literally just a different ECU setting.
An vehicles with that ECU setting need to be tracked so they aren't shipped to California. There is no advantage to doing that; just make them all the same then you can move inventory however you need. You also don't confuse/piss off customers by having CA and non-CA variants. ("What do you mean I can't register the car I bought last month before moving to my new job in this state?!")
This is becoming more true as more states adopt
Re: So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Neva (Score:2)
"An vehicles with that ECU setting need to be tracked so they aren't shipped to California."
You think vehicles aren't tracked as they go down the assembly line? You seem to know literally nothing about the vehicle assembly process.
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Not that kind of tracked.
I mean managing separate CA- and non-CA-compliant inventories.
It's not like you to be THAT obtuse.
=Smidge=
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I really have no idea how to respond to your continuing ridiculousness paired with your assertion that I am being obtuse which accurately conveys how insensible what you are saying is.
First, they don't have to do any such thing. The reconfiguration can be handled at a dealership. It is not anything which even has to occur at the point of production.
Second, they already know what every single vehicle in their inventory's characteristics are, and where it is. They are not picking cars at random to ship to dea
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1. Don't require any sort of emissions test if they inspect your car.
or
2. Don't have car inspections at all...
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Difficulty: No manufacturer is going to run separate production lines just to sell in California, so effectively all cars sold in the US will comply with California emissions standards.
Difficulty 2: Enforcement also happens registration stage, and at annual inspections. Even if you skirt the sales prohibition by buying out of state, you're not registering it in California unless it complies with emissions regulations.
=Smidge=
Few manufacturers are going to even bother making America specific models. The US will be driving EURO 6 compliant cars as well.
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So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevada.
Then register and drive it in California
That's a against the law, and CA will come after you, and they will win. (I think it's the same in every state.)
Your challenge will be to find such a car in the first place, as for decades all new cars have been manufactured to be compliant with California's requirements. It's too expensive and doesn't make sense for the car companies to do anything else. California thereby dictates the national standards for cars.
Re:So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevad (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think you replied to the wrong post. +1 Interesting, though.
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> Why are you against clean air? You do realize it affects your health?
Just filter every breath through a cigarette like your grandparents did!
=Smidge=
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Plus, there are 22 other states that follow California's emission regulations.
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Your non-compliant car will probably have "California Emissions" anyway. When I moved here with my non-California car and got it smog checked so I could register it, it beat the test handily, scoring less than 10% of the allowed emissions in every metric. I suspect that Subaru did the math and found that economy of scale in manufacturing made it cheaper to just put the anti-smog equipment on every car they ship than to have separate engines and emissions (And the accompanying spare parts logistics.) for c
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Then register ..
Why would you want to do that? Maintain an out of state residence and "just visit" CA.
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He somehow thinks he's sticking it to the man. I really don't get it either. California (a place where smog was famous for decades) mandated cleaner cars and the automakers complained but then almost as if by magic, cars got cleaner and more efficient. Which gave a net benefit to the entire country. Like the malaise era where the Japanese cars came in and were better in every way. Cadillac de-tuning an 8 liter v8 down to 130 horsepower is a prime example.
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He somehow thinks he's sticking it to the man.
Sometimes "The Man" needs a little sticking. Back when Cadillac was de-tuning V8s, Porsche made a nice car with a V8. Some years later, I bought a gray market version. No cat. Minimal other emissions junk. What I had to do was to take it in, put it on a dynamometer and pass its year emissions requirements. It passed with flying colors.
US customers had to take a de-tuned, catted engine. because the EPA said that cars from the manufacturer "needed more". Read that as: The exemption from catalytic converter r
Surveilllence (Score:2)
So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevada
Why would you want to do that? Maintain an out of state residence and "just visit" CA.
Most (all?) states prosecute the "just visiting" scams, which includes occupying a residence in the state without being a resident of the state, and similarly for the the vehicle registration. Whether you are "just visiting" or not affects the taxes.
If they see you driving that car around, or parking/garaging the car, (or occupying that property) more than a certain number of days (or consecutive days), they are going to come after you. Besides whatever motor vehicle registration fines you would be facing,
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If they see you driving that car around, or parking/garaging the car, (or occupying that property) more than a certain number of days
I don't even occupy my declared primary residence for the requisite number of days to qualify for residence. Theoretically, I reside nowhere. And owe taxes in no state.
People that have the wherewithal to pull this off [autoweek.com] generally have more then one car. Go ahead. Take down my plates. Next week, I'll be driving something else. Remember: Tax laws are targeted at the plebes.
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Then register and drive it in California
This won't work. As soon as you cross state lines and try registering it you will be required to prove that it meets the road worthiness code of that state.
The closest you can get to your idea, is to live outside of California or have someone out of state own your vehicle.
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Then register and drive it in California
This won't work. As soon as you cross state lines and try registering it you will be required to prove that it meets the road worthiness code of that state.
The closest you can get to your idea, is to live outside of California or have someone out of state own your vehicle.
That won't work either, if you are actually driving the car in California.
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Can Trump change this? (Score:2)
Could Trump end the ability for the California Air Resources Board to do its own thing on emissions? Would Trump do it?
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In theory, the Administrative Procedures Act prevents federal agencies from revoking regulations or overturning previous decisions capriciously. However, that presupposes having a functioning court system, which, *shrug*.
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Yes, but court cases get appealed, and that takes time. Probably, by the time it gets to the Supremes, Trump will be out as president, and replaced by someone with his head screwed on correctly (hopefully).
If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.
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If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.
For trivia fans, assuming he doesn't shave the beard before Inauguration Day, he will become the first VP with facial hair since Charles Curtis (1929-1933). He could be the first president with face fungus since Taft (1909-1913).
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If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.
Spend another four years insulting people you don't agree with and you will most certainly get Vance in 2028.
Re: Can Trump change this? (Score:2)
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He insults illegal aliens of all races equally.
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What do you mean, "costing American tax payers money?" Mexico paid for the wall. By selling off parts of it the Biden Administration is making money.
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+1000 Funny.
On a more serious note, the Biden administration is selling the border-wall materials because basically it has to, per the National Defense Authorization Act [azcentral.com] passed by the Republican Congress this year.
TL/DR: the Act calls on the DoD to come up with a plan to use, transfer, or donate (to southern-border states) all materials purchased between 2017 and 2022 to build the wall. The law required the DoD to come up with the plan within 75 days of the law's passing, and begin implementing the plan wit
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The next administration does not have to buy the pieces back. Don't Elmo and Rama-lama-ding-dong have woodies for government waste? The Mexican cartels will just make Swiss cheese of walls anyhow. el Bunko is living in his made up world of 2000 years ago. Hell, they even had Championship Roman Gladiators back then.
Innnnnn THIS corner we have Biggus Dickus, the Meanest, most Terrible Noggin Punisher The World Has Ever Seen!!
Annnndddd in THAT corner we have The Orange Haired Dolt, He's Bold, He's Dumb, and He
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Re:Can Trump change this? (Score:5, Interesting)
In 2019 Trump sued to get rid of California's EPA wavier. He failed.
He'll probably try (and fail) again.
It's a high hurdle to invalidate it.
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It's more likely that he'll make it difficult on automakers that attempt to sell CARB spec vehicles outside of Cali without offering EPA spec alternatives.
Re: Can Trump change this? (Score:2)
EPA specs are limits, just like California specs, so all California spec vehicles ARE that.
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That's not how it's worked in the past.
Sometimes they'll have special California models, but often they'll just sell them nationwide unless it's a compliance car or in the past some smaller engines not available outside of CA.
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Anything is possible, but the more Trump does this, the less appealing US vehicles will be to export. Then again, so much this guy does is short term and "fuck the future".
Price is Right (Score:2)
I'm looking forward to the Price is Right once again mentioning that every car includes "California emissions".
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They all do already.
A win for all of us (Score:5, Interesting)
A loss for all of us (Score:1)
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Re:A win for all of us (Score:4, Funny)
Texas does not re-write history, they are improving it. Did you know that Jesus carried an AR-15? Little known fact, but very well known in Texas:
Beelzebub is a mite upset:
Beelz: (whips out iPhone, dials)
Jesus: (Ringy-dingy) Oy!! How are they hanging, Beelz?
Beelz: )*&%$&&^. . . .they are drooping. . . .DROOPING!!
Jesus: Huh...why are they doing that, Beelz?
Beelz: Because of those disgusting Evangelical preachers you keep sending me.
Jesus: Hey, I'm not sending them, they get there all on their own. And I never asked them to do the things they do.
Beelz: Yeah, well, you gotta stop'em coming down here.
Jesus: Why? Shouldn't they fit right in?
Beelz: What ARE you smoking up there? They are the absolute worst!!
Jesus (cough, hack, cough): Ahem, come now. how bad can they be? You are aware you are running Hell, yes?
Beelz: I'll tell you how bad. They keep trying to close the strip joints here.
Jesus: So?
Beelz: How are we going to torture the naughty nuns?
Jesus: You have naughty nuns going to the strip joints?
Beelz: No, they are the strippers. Drives'em crazy. Anyhow, those Evangelicals won't leave'em alone...tell the nuns they are going to Hell...very insensitive that!!
Jesus: Ya, I know what you mean, we don't allow them to say stuff like that to those up here...gee, I don't know what I can do.
Beelz: I'll tell you what you can do. Send'em back!!
Jesus: Aarrrggggh. . . .do you know how much paperwork that involves?
Beelz: (now tearing off his cowboy hat and stomping on it) I'm serious, damnit!!
Jesus: Hmmm, yes, I can see that. Let's confer with St. Pete (adds St. Peter to the conference call)
St. Peter: Yo! What can I do you for, JC?
Jesus: Beelz says the Evangelical preachers are causing a ruckus down in Hell. Cannot we send them back under...Hell, I don't know....maybe we could get them on a bigger rap next time, say, Insufferability?
St. Peter: You just made that up, didn't you? I know, we'll get them for making Christian music.
Jesus: Hehehehehe. . . .good one. Me, I hate that tripe.
St. Peter: Okay. . . .I’ll undamn them and start the paperwork. and I'll send a bus down to collect them.
Bus arrives
Beelz: Okay you Preachers, y'all get on the bus, NOW!!
Pat Robertson: But I wanna stay!!
Beelz: Why in Hell would you want to do that?
PR: (now with a giggling, scantily dressed nun on each arm) I like the atmosphere.
Beelz: Get on the bus, Butthead, and leave the nuns.
PR: (sniff) See ya, ladies. Mr. Beelz, where are we going?
Beelz: You are going north to Oklahoma.
PR: But we're in Hell!?!
Beelz: Think. Einstein!
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Nothing New? (Score:3)
Hasn't California been doing this for many years? So this is just an extension of the waivers they've been getting for ages. This is factoring in the latest changes California has made, but it's something that has been pretty routine for quite a while. The only reason it's news is that the next administration wants to revoke the waivers, so having them granted before the transition makes that much harder to achieve.
After Jan 21, the EPA will be no-more. (Score:1)
After Jan 21st, the EPA will be gone or toothless, so they aren't a factor. And as for California emissions, an Executive Order could fix this. OR pull all government business out of California and into more business friendly states. I'd advocate for a fortified corridor (fortified with a wall guarded by the army with guns) from another business-friendly state to the big ports where all those Electric Truck rules don't apply, and California would have to pay a tariff to get goods from the United States. Som