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United States

EPA Lets California Set Its Own Stricter Emissions Standards Until 2035 (arstechnica.com) 50

Posted by msmash from the whatever-floats-your-boat dept.
The US Environmental Protection Agency has granted a pair of waivers to California, allowing the Golden State to continue regulating vehicle-caused air pollution within its borders. From a report: The first is for the California Air Resources Board's Advanced Clean Cars II regulations, which apply to light- and medium-duty vehicles like passenger cars, SUVs, and smaller trucks. The second waiver is for regulations that control the amount of nitrogen oxides (NOx) that can be emitted by heavy-duty vehicles as well as off-road vehicles.

The Clean Air Act allows states to apply for a waiver from the EPA to set their own emissions standards in cases where the federal regulations are insufficient to prevent deleterious pollution. The state applied for the latest waivers late in 2023, and after a public comment period and then a review by the agency, the EPA decided to approve them.

"California has longstanding authority to request waivers from EPA to protect its residents from dangerous air pollution coming from mobile sources like cars and trucks," said EPA Administrator Michael Regan. "Today's actions follow through on EPA's commitment to partner with states to reduce emissions and act on the threat of climate change."

EPA Lets California Set Its Own Stricter Emissions Standards Until 2035 More | Reply

EPA Lets California Set Its Own Stricter Emissions Standards Until 2035

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  • Then register and drive it in California

    • Re:So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevad (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @02:56PM (#65022989) Journal

      Difficulty: No manufacturer is going to run separate production lines just to sell in California, so effectively all cars sold in the US will comply with California emissions standards.

      Difficulty 2: Enforcement also happens registration stage, and at annual inspections. Even if you skirt the sales prohibition by buying out of state, you're not registering it in California unless it complies with emissions regulations.
      =Smidge=

      • Difficulty: No manufacturer is going to run separate production lines just to sell in California, so effectively all cars sold in the US will comply with California emissions standards.

        The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.

        Difficulty 2: Enforcement also happens registration stage, and at annual inspections. Even if you skirt the sales prohibition by buying out of state, you're not registering it in California unless it complies with emissions regulations.

        California isn't allowed to do that. Vehicles brought in from other states are tested to different standards. California CAN however deny registration of brand new vehicles (identified as having less than 7,500 miles on them) purchased in another state unless you were a resident of that state and then moved here. If you were a California resident at the time of purchase, you cannot register such a vehicle he

        • There are some manufacturers that used different hardware on CARB spec vehicles until it became cost prohibitive, after which point they standardized around CARB spec. Early model years of the VW NMS Passat are an example.

          If CARB passes regs that are too draconian, it may be impossible to reconcile differences between CARB and EPA emissions requirements while producing vehicles that many Americans would actually be willing to buy.

        • Or... you could register it in West Virginia or Vermont, which allow vehicle registrations from anywhere in the country.

          Classic car guys have been using this loophole for years.

          While you might be able to get away with driving a vehicle with out-of-state plates in CA, there might be a CA law requiring residents to register their vehicles in CA. IANAL, so the usual disclaimers apply. Whether the law would be enforced or not probably depends on where in CA you live.

        • > The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.

          That's still in essence a different production line. Nobody's gonna make a bespoke California compliant version; they're all gonna be the same for mass-market vehicles. The only (modern) vehicles I've ever heard of that aren't "50-state" compliant are high performance dick-compensation trucks and customs.

          > California isn't allowed to do that.

          Incorrect; Any vehicle not meeting the narrowly defined exe

          • > The California emissions standards don't require more hardware to comply with, just different tuning.
            That's still in essence a different production line.

            No, it is not that at all. It is literally just a different ECU setting.

            > California isn't allowed to do that.
            Incorrect; Any vehicle not meeting the narrowly defined exemption criteria needs a smog test (or if new enough, a pay smog fee for the first few years) to be registered in California.

            The vehicle has to comply with emissions regulations no matter where it is sold, whether there is regular compliance testing or not. There are federal requirements. They regulate allowable emissions, they just don't typically do any testing. They leave it up to state to do it or not.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cstacy ( 534252 )

      So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevada.
      Then register and drive it in California

      That's a against the law, and CA will come after you, and they will win. (I think it's the same in every state.)

      Your challenge will be to find such a car in the first place, as for decades all new cars have been manufactured to be compliant with California's requirements. It's too expensive and doesn't make sense for the car companies to do anything else. California thereby dictates the national standards for cars.

      • And the first time you take it to Smog Inspection, which happens every other year, your car will not pass inspection and will not be renewed. Geez, you think nobody else thought of that? Side note - when I was a kid in the 70's, the smog in LA was so bad you couldn't see the mountains. After regulation and 10+ years, the air has improved significantly. Why are you against clean air? You do realize it affects your health?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by mspohr ( 589790 )

        Plus, there are 22 other states that follow California's emission regulations.

    • Your non-compliant car will probably have "California Emissions" anyway. When I moved here with my non-California car and got it smog checked so I could register it, it beat the test handily, scoring less than 10% of the allowed emissions in every metric. I suspect that Subaru did the math and found that economy of scale in manufacturing made it cheaper to just put the anti-smog equipment on every car they ship than to have separate engines and emissions (And the accompanying spare parts logistics.) for c

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Then register ..

      Why would you want to do that? Maintain an out of state residence and "just visit" CA.

      • He somehow thinks he's sticking it to the man. I really don't get it either. California (a place where smog was famous for decades) mandated cleaner cars and the automakers complained but then almost as if by magic, cars got cleaner and more efficient. Which gave a net benefit to the entire country. Like the malaise era where the Japanese cars came in and were better in every way. Cadillac de-tuning an 8 liter v8 down to 130 horsepower is a prime example.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by PPH ( 736903 )

          He somehow thinks he's sticking it to the man.

          Sometimes "The Man" needs a little sticking. Back when Cadillac was de-tuning V8s, Porsche made a nice car with a V8. Some years later, I bought a gray market version. No cat. Minimal other emissions junk. What I had to do was to take it in, put it on a dynamometer and pass its year emissions requirements. It passed with flying colors.

          US customers had to take a de-tuned, catted engine. because the EPA said that cars from the manufacturer "needed more". Read that as: The exemption from catalytic converter r

      • So, I buy the non-CA compliant vehicle in Nevada

        Why would you want to do that? Maintain an out of state residence and "just visit" CA.

        Most (all?) states prosecute the "just visiting" scams, which includes occupying a residence in the state without being a resident of the state, and similarly for the the vehicle registration. Whether you are "just visiting" or not affects the taxes.

        If they see you driving that car around, or parking/garaging the car, (or occupying that property) more than a certain number of days (or consecutive days), they are going to come after you. Besides whatever motor vehicle registration fines you would be facing,

    • Then register and drive it in California

      This won't work. As soon as you cross state lines and try registering it you will be required to prove that it meets the road worthiness code of that state.

      The closest you can get to your idea, is to live outside of California or have someone out of state own your vehicle.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cstacy ( 534252 )

        Then register and drive it in California

        This won't work. As soon as you cross state lines and try registering it you will be required to prove that it meets the road worthiness code of that state.

        The closest you can get to your idea, is to live outside of California or have someone out of state own your vehicle.

        That won't work either, if you are actually driving the car in California.

    • If you care that much it is easier to just throw on a chip or flash tune and remove it for inspections if when and if necessary.

  • Could Trump end the ability for the California Air Resources Board to do its own thing on emissions? Would Trump do it?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by flink ( 18449 )

      In theory, the Administrative Procedures Act prevents federal agencies from revoking regulations or overturning previous decisions capriciously. However, that presupposes having a functioning court system, which, *shrug*.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hwstar ( 35834 )

        Yes, but court cases get appealed, and that takes time. Probably, by the time it gets to the Supremes, Trump will be out as president, and replaced by someone with his head screwed on correctly (hopefully).

        If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.

        • If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.

          For trivia fans, assuming he doesn't shave the beard before Inauguration Day, he will become the first VP with facial hair since Charles Curtis (1929-1933). He could be the first president with face fungus since Taft (1909-1913).

        • If we get Vance, work on getting dual citizenship or permanent residency in a saner countiry if you can before he becomes president in 2028.

          Spend another four years insulting people you don't agree with and you will most certainly get Vance in 2028.

          • I'm not so sure. Trump regularly insults Latinos, blacks, and Asians, and thinking-Americans--and Vance scaremongers about childless people and did OK with women, and fantastic with incels. We have to stop being afraid of calling a dipshit a dipshit. Enough of using special terms to avoid hurting deplorable's feelings. The worst they can do is govern like they plan to
    • Because it costs car makers money and is generally regarded by wealthy conservatives as "unnecessary" govt. oversight. We have learned over and over that they do need regulation if you don't want to be swimming in toxic bullshit.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mspohr ( 589790 )

      In 2019 Trump sued to get rid of California's EPA wavier. He failed.
      He'll probably try (and fail) again.
      It's a high hurdle to invalidate it.

    • It's more likely that he'll make it difficult on automakers that attempt to sell CARB spec vehicles outside of Cali without offering EPA spec alternatives.

    • Anything is possible, but the more Trump does this, the less appealing US vehicles will be to export. Then again, so much this guy does is short term and "fuck the future".

  • I'm looking forward to the Price is Right once again mentioning that every car includes "California emissions".

  • A win for all of us (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mr.dreadful ( 758768 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @03:37PM (#65023097)
    California uses its purchasing power to improve the environment by demanding better emissions. Texas uses their text book buying leverage to rewrite history they don't like. I'm glad I live in California.
    • California uses political backroom deals to impose taxation (because that what regulation end up doing) without representation. We all end up paying more money so San Francisco has clear views.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Texas does not re-write history, they are improving it. Did you know that Jesus carried an AR-15? Little known fact, but very well known in Texas:

      Beelzebub is a mite upset:

      Beelz: (whips out iPhone, dials)

      Jesus: (Ringy-dingy) Oy!! How are they hanging, Beelz?

      Beelz: )*&%$&&^. . . .they are drooping. . . .DROOPING!!

      Jesus: Huh...why are they doing that, Beelz?

      Beelz: Because of those disgusting Evangelical preachers you keep sending me.

      Jesus: Hey, I'm not sending them, they get there all on their own

  • Hasn't California been doing this for many years? So this is just an extension of the waivers they've been getting for ages. This is factoring in the latest changes California has made, but it's something that has been pretty routine for quite a while. The only reason it's news is that the next administration wants to revoke the waivers, so having them granted before the transition makes that much harder to achieve.

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