China is Losing Interest in English 81
An anonymous reader shares a report: In preparation for the summer Olympics in 2008, the authorities in Beijing, the host city and China's capital, launched a campaign to teach English to residents likely to come in contact with foreign visitors. Police, transit workers and hotel staff were among those targeted. One aim was to have 80% of taxi drivers achieve a basic level of competency. Today, though, any foreigner visiting Beijing will notice that rather few people are able to speak English well.
The 80% target proved a fantasy: most drivers still speak nothing but Chinese. Even the public-facing staff at the city's main international airport struggle to communicate with foreigners. Immigration officers often resort to computer-translation systems. For much of the 40 years since China began opening up to the world, "English fever" was a common catchphrase. People were eager to learn foreign languages, English most of all. Many hoped the skill would lead to jobs with international firms. Others wanted to do business with foreign companies. Some dreamed of moving abroad. But enthusiasm for learning English has waned in recent years. According to one ranking, by EF Education First, an international language-training firm, China ranks 91st among 116 countries and regions in terms of English proficiency. Just four years ago it ranked 38th out of 100.
The 80% target proved a fantasy: most drivers still speak nothing but Chinese. Even the public-facing staff at the city's main international airport struggle to communicate with foreigners. Immigration officers often resort to computer-translation systems. For much of the 40 years since China began opening up to the world, "English fever" was a common catchphrase. People were eager to learn foreign languages, English most of all. Many hoped the skill would lead to jobs with international firms. Others wanted to do business with foreign companies. Some dreamed of moving abroad. But enthusiasm for learning English has waned in recent years. According to one ranking, by EF Education First, an international language-training firm, China ranks 91st among 116 countries and regions in terms of English proficiency. Just four years ago it ranked 38th out of 100.
Of course (Score:3)
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Re: Of course (Score:1)
Yeah, yes. So poo to you.
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Across China, educators are lamenting the kids innability to grasp simple english grammar concepts such as curly braces and array comprehensions, whilst lamenting poor test scores on basic english exam questions like "Use the word 'std::nullptr_t' in a reply to 'How do I find my way to the hotel'" or "What is the plural of 'std::endl'"
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Re: Of course (Score:2)
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Re: Better AI did this (Score:2)
Hopefully we can avoid learning any language. An AI can translate a series of gesticulations unique to the individual.
They stopped allowing online English tutoring... (Score:4, Insightful)
About 3 years ago, they imposed a rule that would forbid English tutoring by foreign teachers online. They said that the expectations for kids getting into better schools were getting so difficult that it was causing families to not be able to afford having multiple kids. So, the government just made the blanket statement that forbid that tutoring, so they could say, "There! Now, education is cheaper! We fixed the problem!"
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All English training centers were forcibly changed to non profits with limits on fees and operating times.
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No, it wasn't. Don't let facts get in the way.
You're a goddamn liar.
China's "one-child policy" was a population control measure implemented in 1979 that restricted most families to having only one child, aiming to curb rapid population growth and facilitate economic development; this policy was in place until 2015 when it was gradually relaxed, allowing couples to have two children, and later further relaxed to permit three children in response to an aging population.
What is it with you people who just lie though your teeth?
https://www.npr.org/20
Re: They stopped allowing online English tutoring. (Score:4, Interesting)
Lots of exceptions for ethnic minorities, political favorites, or people that were simply able to pay the fine directly contradict the blanket statement that "It was illegal to have more than one kid in China," and thus "No, it wasn't. Don't let facts get in the way" is a perfectly valid retort, and not, in fact, an indication that "[He's] a goddamn liar."
My one-child-era Han spouse is one of four total siblings, for example, and is documented, has a hokou, and isn't an illegal child, for example.
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Illegal things don't stop being illegal when you pay the fine for being caught. The presence of exceptions doesn't make a law invalid either. You acknowledge there was a fining process, therefore you acknowledge that it was illegal. While several people in this thread are being highly toxic arsehats with their responses, your well written post is none the less quite the leap of logic.
Re: They stopped allowing online English tutoring. (Score:1)
Iinm, it isn't "foreign teachers" but teachers located outside China.
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Iinm, it isn't "foreign teachers" but teachers located outside China.
and teachers located inside China
and requiring a relevant degree and not just "a native speaker"
and forcing them to go non-profit
and restricting their hours
and restricting how much they can charge.
Re: They stopped allowing online English tutoring. (Score:2)
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The no tutoring rule was to prevent a repeat of what happened in South Korea and to a lesser extent Japan.
Some European countries ban some forms of private education as well.
America (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: America (Score:2, Troll)
The team of translators is there to accommodate all the illegals and would-be-illegals-if-not-for-Biden-granting-parole who have come over with the expectation of getting free medical care.
The wife did her training at one of these charity hospitals where people would literally be getting off the plane from Haiti or whereever and going straight to that hospital to get "free" medical care paid for by every taxpayer and everyone bitching about why their insurance premiums are so high. And of course these peopl
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... oh right... promoting xenophobia.
I don't think the apparently increasing supply of Chinese xenophobes who are averse to learning English are reading Slashdot because - get this - it's primarily in English.
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Nothing promotes xenophobia quite like a ShanghaiBill post.
Conversely... (Score:2)
How many citizens of the United States or of Great Britain are proficient in Mandarin? How interested are they usually in learning the languages of other cultures?
Chinese and English are very far away in too many aspects, so it's a big effort for both groups to learn the other's language. Both cultures are mostly self-oriented, so the motivation is little anyway...
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"How many citizens of the United States or of Great Britain are proficient in Mandarin?"
I don't have any interest in Mandarin, but Clementine is an excellent music player.
Re: Conversely... (Score:2)
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"Looks like Clementine is no longer being maintained."
The latest version I have is:
Version 1.4.1-17-g4ea9d473a
Which I dl'd on 2 Dec 2024
So it does seem to be still supported..
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Re: Conversely... (Score:3)
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>"How many citizens of the United States or of Great Britain are proficient in Mandarin?"
Probably not many
>"How interested are they usually in learning the languages of other cultures?"
Very, apparently. In the US, it has been a requirement to take courses in foreign languages for ages. I am not sure the CURRENT status, but when I went through school, you had to take 3 years of one language or 2 years of two different languages if you planned on getting a degree. And the advanced diploma in high sch
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I must have missed it. When was it that the vast majority of movies was in Mandarin? When exactly did, oh I don't know, pretty much every other country agree that the international business language was Mandarin? How come slashdot has all of these English letters instead of the symbols? Same goes for the other 90%+ of the internet... when did it start being almost exclusively chinese written characters?
Oh, those are in English?
Yeah, let me get right on learning another language that has just about zero use
How many can say (Score:1)
Pooh Bear?
Re: How many can say (Score:1)
How many? What is it now? 1.4 billion? Something like that...
why would they (Score:2, Insightful)
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Because as horrible a language English is to learn, it is a hell of a lot better as a lingua franca than most alternatives.
Re:why would they (Score:5, Interesting)
re:China & Euro demographic collapse (Score:2)
Ironic if Joe's lax borders are saving us from a demographic collapse.
Prez #45 and #46 are both broken clocks that are right twice a day.
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The world is looking down the barrel of a Trump presidency. The US can only hope to have it so good as a demographic collapse.
Re: why would they (Score:1)
People have been saying such things for years...it's a common a claim as this year being the year of the Linux desktop, or viable fusion electricity generation being only a few years away.
I suppose it could be true this time, but don't hold your breath...or feel free to...what do I care?
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Re:why would they (Score:5, Informative)
No, China's economy has been mostly stalled since the pandemic. This language hiccup is likely about Cold War II tensions rather than economic might. English is still the de-facto business language of the world, for good or bad. If you want to do world biz, then you still need to learn English.
Xi also started regulating China's rich heavier after a couple of plutocrats got too comfortable and dabbled in China's politics. The crackdown is driving out investors.
Re: why would they (Score:1)
"Mostly stalled" is an exaggeration.
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Unemployment is way up, especially among the young people. In fact it is so bad the CCP stopped keeping stats on that demographic. Plus there's the collapse of the real estate market with half-finished vacant apartment blocks (contractors not getting paid), and whole ghost cities. There's still an awful lot of action going on in China. It's a huge country with a population size that we can hardly comprehend here in the west. Things there could turn worse in a real hurry. I think Xi's tenuous hold over th
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Re: why would they (Score:2)
Idunno. They're in the middle of a bursting real estate bubble and population crash right now. China will endure, but it's no sure bet it will outshine anyone.
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Well, we did get stuck with Clownus Tintus
Not Possible, because peogramming (Score:2)
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What I saw (Score:2)
I found most drivers couldn't read Pinyin, the computer-version of Chinese, that had been an official language for over 40 years, at the time. At the internet cafes, I saw teenagers using Pinyin on QQ.
Chinese think most visitors are American. Although in the middle they thought I was French-Canadian, and going north, I was Russian, and going south, I was English-speaking.
While English-speaking countries happily adopted Americanisms, (and in 2005, several Americanisms were forced onto other countries), A
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And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?
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Newspaper, magazine and book publishers around the world decided to ban words such as "biscuit" and "mum". Weeks later, I saw a not-US reality Tv. show where the weekly evicted contestant used the word "cookie" twice in every sentence for 5 sentences. The word "cookie" has been on US Tv. for 50 years, yet some US-ians also say "biscuit".
In one country, a chain bakery decided to use brand-name recipes and call it a "cookie" because brand-names were all trade-marked as biscuits. The government objected t
English just isn't that important. (Score:3, Insightful)
There's truth to this, but it's a reflection of several things, that boil down to English just not being that important any more - in China that is.
It's perfectly possible to exist with minimal Chinese in China (I'm sure it varies).
I've lived in China for most of the past 21 years and still have what must amount to negligible Chinese (though I don't recommend it).
I moved to China from California to work at a school that was teaching English to people working to organise the Olympics...learning English was all the rage back then. These days, not so much. A lot of things have changed, including a lot of improvements in living standards, but also the USA (et al) has become much more aggressive against China, so there's not much point in learning English.
Also, what's the problem? You go to a foreign country...you should expect to speak need to speak their language that's what phrase books are for...I guess apps do that now, but still.
No Problem (Score:2)
If they don't want to learn English it will have no effect on me. I once dreamed of visiting China but no more.
Not surprised (Score:2)
If you travel in China you just get a translation app, most folks use one. The low number of English speakers, outside of Hong Kong, makes it a low value skill outside of international business. Our dev team in Beijing however definitely benefits from being fluent.
Universal language (Score:2)
The planet needs a universal language. Keep the native languages as a backup if you want, but they are ultimately not important, or even culturally relevant, anymore. English is the closest we have to a universal language right now. Not saying it should continue to be that way or anything. But we do need to simplify to one main language planet-wide, eventually.
Re: Universal language (Score:2)
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The Chinese Internet (Score:2)
Not surprised (Score:2)
... enthusiasm for learning English has waned in recent years. According to one ranking, by EF Education First, an international language-training firm, China ranks 91st among 116 countries and regions in terms of English proficiency. Just four years ago it ranked 38th out of 100
I would think that it would mostly be younger people - ones looking forward to demanding careers, possibly abroad - who would be most interested in learning a foreign language. Especially an alphabet-based one. But demographic collapse probably means a shrinking economy, fewer career options, and more time spent caring for one's own elders because the infrastructure and services to take care of them at a societal and institutional level are shrinking.
If demographic collapse isn't yet a contributing factor