Cory Doctorow's Prescient Novella About Health Insurance and Murder (theguardian.com) 50
Five years ago, journalist and sci-fi author Cory Doctorow published a short story that explored the radicalization of individuals denied healthcare coverage. As The Guardian notes in a recent article, the story "might seem eerily similar" to the recent shooting of UnitedHealthcare's CEO. While it appears that the alleged shooter never read the story, Doctorow said: "I feel like the most important thing about that is that it tells you that this is not a unique insight." Doctorow continued: "that the question that I had is a question other people have had." As an activist in favor of liberalizing copyright laws and a proponent of the Creative Commons organization, it's important to note that Doctorow advocates for systemic reform through collective action rather than violence. Here's an excerpt from the The Guardian's article: In Radicalized, one of four novellas comprising a science fiction novel of the same name, Doctorow charts the journey of a man who joins an online forum for fathers whose partners or children have been denied healthcare coverage by their insurers after his wife is diagnosed with breast cancer and denied coverage for an experimental treatment. Slowly, over the course of the story, the men of the forum become radicalized by their grief and begin plotting -- and executing -- murders of health insurance executives and politicians who vote against universal healthcare.
In the wake of the December 4 shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which unleashed a wave of outrage at the U.S. health system, Doctorow's novella has been called prescient. When the American Prospect magazine republished the story last week, it wrote: "It is being republished with permission for reasons that will become clear if you read it." But Doctorow doesn't think he was on to something that no one else in the U.S. understood. [...]
In one part of the story, a man whose young daughter died after an insurance company refused to pay for brain surgery bombs the insurer's headquarters. "It's not vengeance. I don't have a vengeful bone in my body. Nothing I do will bring Lisa back, so why would I want revenge? This is a public service. There's another dad just like me," he shares in a video message on the forum. "And right now, that dad is talking to someone at Cigna, or Humana, or BlueCross BlueShield, and the person on the phone is telling that dad that his little girl has. To. Die. Someone in that building made the decision to kill my little girl, and everyone else in that building went along with it. Not one of them is innocent, and not one of them is afraid. They're going to be afraid, after this."
"Because they must know in their hearts," he goes on. "Them, their lobbyists, the men in Congress who enabled them. They're parents. They know. Anyone who hurt their precious children, they'd hunt that person down like a dog. The only amazing thing about any of this is that no one has done it yet. I'm going to make a prediction right now, that even though I'm the first, I sure as hell will not be the last. There's more to come."
In the wake of the December 4 shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which unleashed a wave of outrage at the U.S. health system, Doctorow's novella has been called prescient. When the American Prospect magazine republished the story last week, it wrote: "It is being republished with permission for reasons that will become clear if you read it." But Doctorow doesn't think he was on to something that no one else in the U.S. understood. [...]
In one part of the story, a man whose young daughter died after an insurance company refused to pay for brain surgery bombs the insurer's headquarters. "It's not vengeance. I don't have a vengeful bone in my body. Nothing I do will bring Lisa back, so why would I want revenge? This is a public service. There's another dad just like me," he shares in a video message on the forum. "And right now, that dad is talking to someone at Cigna, or Humana, or BlueCross BlueShield, and the person on the phone is telling that dad that his little girl has. To. Die. Someone in that building made the decision to kill my little girl, and everyone else in that building went along with it. Not one of them is innocent, and not one of them is afraid. They're going to be afraid, after this."
"Because they must know in their hearts," he goes on. "Them, their lobbyists, the men in Congress who enabled them. They're parents. They know. Anyone who hurt their precious children, they'd hunt that person down like a dog. The only amazing thing about any of this is that no one has done it yet. I'm going to make a prediction right now, that even though I'm the first, I sure as hell will not be the last. There's more to come."
Re: (Score:1)
Is not a threat to me or anyone I know.
Anybody who can just walk up to somebody they've never met and shoot them in the back is probably not the kind of person you want loose on the street anywhere.
The state is even trying to use the death penalty
Federal government, and they haven't decided.
and terrorism charges.
That one is the state, and this case does meet the legal definition of it in that state. So as a matter of law, it is correct.
They don't even give that to people who shoot up schools or churches.
Depends on a few things:
1) Did they survive the incident? Often they don't.
2) What was the legal definition of it in that jurisdiction?
3) Did their actions meet the legal definition?
Re: (Score:2)
Special operations commandos would like a word [unilad.com].
I think Luigi has the same internal controls as a commando. This wasn't a robbery, or for other personal gain, like a simple criminal. This was violence for a greater mission.
Re: (Score:1)
Special operations commandos would like a word
Well if you really think you're currently fighting a war, then what's stopping you from doing this right now?
This wasn't a robbery, or for other personal gain, like a simple criminal. This was violence for a greater mission.
I'm guessing his poster is sitting on your wall right next to Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, Osama Bin Laden, and many more including every abortion clinic bomber. They all had the same idea, after all.
Re: (Score:3)
He stalked and murdered a guy in cold blood. He deserves to be convicted of first-degree murder.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For one thing, the circumstances aren't even remotely comparable.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
The difference between homicide and murder is primarily a matter of law. In the case of the guy in the subway, as a matter of law, it was not murder. Homicide, yes, nobody will deny that, but still not murder.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Weasel words
Describe exactly how anything I said qualifies as weasel words. Quote the exact words as well.
Murder and manslaughter are both forms of unlawful killing.
I can play the pedantic game too: Homicide. Killing a deer outside of deer season is unlawful, but you're not looking at a manslaughter charge. Earlier you were insisting it was murder despite that it wasn't, and now you're getting pedantic over it. Either way, you still lose, as the distinction there is also a matter of law. What might be manslaughter in one state might be third degree murder in a state like Minne
Re: (Score:2)
WTF does Minnesota & deer have to do with anything?
Daniel Perry was charged with 2nd degree manslaughter. Manslaughter is defined as causing someone's death without the intent to do so. Manslaughter cases involve recklessness, negligence, or heat of passion.
According to New York Penal Law 15.05(3), acting "recklessly" as used in the manslaughter in the seco
Re: (Score:1)
WTF are you talking about? Word salad!
You're the one who can't even answer a very direct question.
Manslaughter and murder are both forms of unlawful killing. Both killings happened in New York City.
And New York City isn't run by people like you; i.e. with the mental capacity of a 5 year old.
WTF does Minnesota & deer have to do with anything?
It's called an analogy.
According to New York Penal Law 15.05(3), acting "recklessly" as used in the manslaughter in the second degree statute is defined as being aware that your actions present a substantial risk that someone could be killed and disregarding that risk.
And a jury of his peers determined that this wasn't the case. You have your answer. What's really telling about your mental capacity is here you have a case of a guy lying in wait and intentionally killing another person by shooting him in the back and then in the head, and you've got it in your head that is an "apples to apples" com
Re: (Score:2)
And New York City isn't run by people like you
If I'm on the jury of a certain CEO killer, he will be as free as the hobo strangler. It is run by people like us.
Re: (Score:2)
intentionally killing another person by shooting him
Again, how do you unintentionally strangle someone to death for 6 minutes? Did the hobo strangler know that Jordan Neely held the world record for holding his breath at 6 minutes and 1 second?
Re: (Score:1)
Again, how do you unintentionally strangle someone to death for 6 minutes?
Ask the jury.
Did the hobo strangler know that Jordan Neely held the world record for holding his breath at 6 minutes and 1 second?
Strangulation isn't the same as holding your breath. Holding your breath is a whole different thing, and relatively speaking, 6 minutes isn't even that long. Just to illustrate how little you know, that's not even close to being a world record. Professional freedivers typically do it longer than that, even while actively swimming/spending energy. And then there are those who can slow down their cardiovascular system in a relaxed state, with the world record being almost 25 minutes:
https://youtu [youtu.be]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bryan Thompson did no such thing. The coverage review boards are themselves made up of actual doctors who make the decisions about whether the claim is medically necessary. Based on what information is available to the public, and from what I've seen, it doesn't look like Luigi's case even made it that far. Instead he was told by the actual doctor that he went to see that not only would he not perform the surgery, but he also told Luigi that no other doctor's would unless he was at least 40 years old. Why t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Semantics.
It's just a fact. Really you sound no different from people who bomb abortion clinics and subsequently argue that they killed a serial killer. The only difference between you and them is your ideology. You're both just run-of-the-mill sociopaths.
You just want to see people strangle the homeless to death.
And you've somehow got liberalism confused with "people I don't like are subject to random execution on a whim for reasons I alone decide". You're not a liberal at all. And that doesn't mean conservative. Depending on your other views, more likely either a fascist o
Re: (Score:2)
It's just a fact. Really you sound no different from people who bomb abortion clinics
LoL, now I bomb abortion clinics. It's ok, bud. You lost. You can't justifiy murder, no matter what deer do. You left the door open for Luigi to walk free and I thank you for that.
Re: (Score:1)
LoL, now I bomb abortion clinics.
You said it, not me.
You left the door open for Luigi to walk free and I thank you for that.
I did no such thing. The problem you're having is you're unable to think logically, which is easily proven.
Re: (Score:2)
Jordan Neely had a long rap sheet for prior crimes, including four assaults; one of those landed him in jail for a year because he punched a 67-year-old lady in the head. Brian Thompson probably never denied coverage to anyone, and denying coverage is not what kills someone.
Re: (Score:2)
had a long rap sheet for prior crimes
It's ok to murder someone because they committed a crime in the past? It's ok to say your allowed to commit murder as long as your team is the one doing it. We understand the hypocrisy.
Hopefully, CEO Brian Thompson didn't shoplift when he was a kid then Luigi was justified.
Re: (Score:2)
Neely was threatening others. Restraining him was defense is self and others, not murder. But my point was that the AC was blatantly lying about Neely. Jist like you're being a toxic asshole. By your own argument, you deserve to be killed. Fortunately, the rest of us are better people than you.
Re: (Score:2)
Neely was threatening others. Jist like you're being a toxic asshole. By your own argument, you deserve to be killed. Fortunately, the rest of us are better people than you.
Dude, you just threatened to kill me in a roundabout way. You are threatening people. I should be able to strangle you to death for 6 minutes now, watch out!
Re: (Score:3)
To which I will add that if people normalize and applaud cold-blooded assassination, then they're going to be shocked when they turn out to be the next one targeted. Because here's the thing: by someone's well-intentioned standards, most of us deserve to die. A society where murder is rationalized and excused is not one that leads to a good outcome for any of us.
Re: (Score:2)
I’m fine. Not like I routinely deny sick and dying people coverage to make shareholders happy.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If Luigi had murdered me or you the police would not have deployed drones, dogs, divers, and countless man hours. Why was no measure spared on this single case?
Re: (Score:2)
It was high-profile and shocking. I think you're wrong about saying that the police wouldn't expend energy if the victim had been someone else.
Re: (Score:2)
This also happened in Manhattan that week:
Migrant teen killed, another injured, after being asked if they spoke English: New York police
https://abc7chicago.com/post/m... [abc7chicago.com]
Obviously this isn't getting near the same level of effort as the CEO case.
Re: (Score:1)
Same reason Britney Griner was bailed out in a prisoner swap while a journalist who had already been there longer and unlike her, he didn't even break any local laws, nevertheless is just left to sit and rot. Yes, unbelievable as it may sound, Britney Griner is far more important than you by a landslide.
"universal" may not mean what you think it means (Score:1)
Doctorow charts the journey of a man whose... wife is diagnosed with breast cancer and denied coverage for an experimental treatment. Slowly, over the course of the story, the men of the forum become radicalized by their grief and begin plotting -- and executing -- murders of health insurance executives and politicians who vote against universal healthcare.
I'm all for universal healthcare (and I'm against killing people who aren't, feel like I have to say that these days), but I find it bizarre how many people think that government health care will solve whatever particular problem they're bothered by, like that it will necessarily mean coverage will never be denied for that experimental treatment your wife wants.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, you may or may not get experimental treatment under universal healthcare, but you're more likely to get it in a system that isn't motivated by profit.
I know this is anecdotal, but... my sister has a chronic disease and she was living in the USA. She moved back to Canada 9 years ago and was given an experimental treatment that turned out to be extremely effective and that allows her to live a normal life. The treatment is very expensive, but she does not have to pay anything for it.
I do not think h
Wrong (Score:1)
Sure, you may or may not get experimental treatment under universal healthcare, but you're more likely to get it in a system that isn't motivated by profit.
No, you are more likely to be put into a free suicide pod [nypost.com], lots cheaper.
Re: (Score:1)
I'm all for universal healthcare (and I'm against killing people who aren't, feel like I have to say that these days), but I find it bizarre how many people think that government health care will solve whatever particular problem they're bothered by
In the case of Luigi, it doesn't sound like it will make any difference at all. From his notebook, it seems he was outraged because one doctor told him that no other doctors would even think about performing the surgery until he was at least 40. Doesn't matter who the payer is, if no doctors will perform the surgery, it's not happening. Somehow he got it in his head that this means an insurance executive needs to die. Curious how many more he would kill until he realizes that changing the payer wouldn't do
Tomayto, Tomahto (Score:2)
it's important to note that Doctorow advocates for systemic reform through collective action rather than violence
Some of us are MLK Jr., some are Malcolm X.
CEO shoulda paid for the (Score:2)
Irregularities of the US Medical System (Score:3)
From the standpoint of most of the rest of the developed world, the US medical system is... weird.
TL;DR - we have doctors in places that make it easier to get high end medical care but much more difficult to get routine medical care, and a system that incentivizes people not to spend money, to the benefit of the insurer. The supply shortage is not getting better (due to the long lead time to training medical professionals), and there's a lot of friction that makes it more advantageous to get paid more to do specialist care for the same amount of time worked, because the overhead involved makes it much harder and much less rewarding to do basic care, beyond the issue with paying back student loans.
-------
First, let us look at cost. The US has a reputation of having really good specialist care - so good that apparently well heeled people from other countries regularly come here to have cutting edge procedures done, or to do routine scans that are booked up in their home country.
"These hospitals and clinics are offering inbound medical tourism services to patients who come to the U.S. for higher quality than they can receive in their home country, access to procedures that are not available in their country’s healthcare facilities, freedom from long wait times or the rationing of procedures because of national governmental regulations, because of the ability to combine tourism opportunities in the U.S., and/or (believe it or not!) because the price differential- paying for services in cash in the U.S. may be less expensive than in their home country."
https://www.magazine.medicalto... [medicaltourism.com]
"For many Canadians, the prospect of enduring prolonged wait times for medical imaging, such as MRI scans, prompts them to explore alternative avenues. This has led to a growing trend of Canadians venturing south of the border to the United States to secure expedited MRI appointments."
https://www.cmimri.ca/navigati... [cmimri.ca]
Paradoxically though, we have the opposite happening within the US, where some patients resort having procedures done overseas. We also have long lines in order to get seen by general practitioners. In other cases, US citizens forego basic care due to cost.
"Medical tourism is a worldwide, multibillion-dollar market that continues to grow with the rising globalization of health care. Surveillance data indicate that millions of US residents travel internationally for medical care each year. Medical tourism destinations for US residents include Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Germany, India, Malaysia, Mexico, Nicaragua, Peru, Singapore, and Thailand. Categories of procedures that US medical tourists pursue include cancer treatment, dental care, fertility treatments, organ and tissue transplantation, and various forms of surgery, including bariatric, cosmetic, and non-cosmetic (e.g., orthopedic)."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/y... [cdc.gov]
"Opponents of universal health care often predict it would lead to long waits to see a doctor, but patients in the U.S. already face unacceptable delays in getting routine care.
Jam-packed appointment schedules have endured for years. Check out this Business Week story from 2007: “The Doctor Will See You—In Three Months.” However, the lack of a national reporting system to track and disclose wait times to the public — a feature in some other countries — has largely obscured the problem here.
With no comprehensive data, journalists rely on a hodgepodge of studies that suggest patients often wait a month or more for a slot on a doctor’s schedule."
Pfft... (Score:2)
I was anticipating something like this with the 2008 crash.
People lose their life savings and only bankers are made whole? You'll at least get 3 squares and a cot in prison (and free healthcare).
As long as law excessively favors business (arbitration, outright theft as "billing errors", slap on the wrist penalties as the cost of doing business, etc.), people will make their own justice with the means available to them as there is no recourse coming from institutions.
Social contract violators (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Part of the problem is competition.
Paradoxically, the individual mandate under the ACA creates a situation where you don't actually need to deliver better service to get customers. For those who correctly point out that the ACA individual mandate was removed as of 2019 ( https://www.healthinsurance.or... [healthinsurance.org] ), there are those of us in states that enacted their own mandates who are subject to similar provisions (minimum $900 or 2.5% of your yearly income penalty in California. Good luck if you just become une
Insurance⦠(Score:2)