Meta Kills DEI Programs (axios.com) 172
Mark Zuckerberg's Meta is terminating major DEI programs, effective immediately -- including for hiring, training and picking suppliers. Axios: Meta said it was changing course because the "legal and policy landscape surrounding diversity, equity and inclusion efforts in the United States is changing," per a memo by Janelle Gale, vice president of human resources.
Never saw that coming (Score:5, Funny)
I got modded "troll" for this before, but I'll say it again: Orange Man's dick is so far down Fuckerberg's throat it's making me gag.
Re: (Score:2)
ATM.
Re:Never saw that coming (Score:4, Insightful)
DEI was a stupid, Marxist, failing policy from the get to.
Marxist Derangement Syndrome much? Humor us, how is DEI "marxist"?
Racism is absolutely defined as considering a person's race when considering how to engage with that person. Preferring African Americans in the form of Affirmative Action qualifies as a racist policy. Are there historical effects of injustices echoing in the present? Of course. But like echos, time would have washed away that difference. The answer is not to shout back and make more noise that has to again, filter out over time. That is what DEI did. It gave racism a resurgence.
Racism never left bud. DEI, the civil rights act, MLK Jr. marching on Washington DC did not bring it back or make it worse. The reasons those things happened because it was a response by the repressed to how terrible it was.
That is to say nothing of the fact that African Americans are better off today than they would have been if their ancestors were never brought to the Americas. That is a very evocative thing to say, and I get it. Passions run deep. That is a good thing. But it doesn't make the statement false, that African Americans today are better off than their African counterparts.
There it is. The most horribly racist awful thing you can say. African Americans should thank us for enslaving them. They wouldn't be happy wherever they would be, because I said so.
Re: (Score:2)
Why do you just make up shit because he said something you didn't like that you know is true? You could have just pointed out that "it turned out pretty well for their descendants" isn't much of a justification for anything, especially since the slaves' descendants are still worse off than the slaveowners' descendants. In fact, some of the actual direct victims and beneficiaries of the segregation era are still alive; we could do a bit of balancing with the people involved (and surely things will turn out p
Re:Never saw that coming (Score:4, Insightful)
Humor us, how is DEI "marxist"?
I don't know why I'm inserting myself into this hot topic, but I want to try and answer this as objectively and neutrally as I can. I am no conservative, I don't like Donald Trump, I think immigration is largely good for the economy etc. I'm also not a progressive, but I am pro-choice and very much pro-diversity and I value an inclusive workplace (and society in general).
First we need to define Marxism.
I think that any reasonable person would agree that it is the economic theory of socialism proposed and espoused by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels. Inherent in their theory is the idea that there is a class struggle between the proletariat (working class) and bourgeoisie ("the elites"), that the class struggle exists because of an inequality between the two, that the bourgeoisie have more power than the proletariat, that they use that power to benefit themselves at the direct expense of the proletariat, and that the whole situation would just disappear if class divides in general disappear and everyone were equal. At least in terms of economics.
[Aside: if you were to take that definition and use it to demonstrate that the 2024 version of MAGA has a lot of Marxist elements to it, I would agree]
Now let's define what DEI typically means:
We know it stands for diversity, equity and inclusion. In practice it is predicated on the belief that there is an economic inequality between various groupings of people, that those inequalities exist because certain groups have power over other groups, that those certain groups use that power to benefit themselves at the direct expense of the others (often "unconsciously") and that the whole situation would just disappear if we had a more equal representation of each group in the workplace. Merit and competence be damned.
Re: (Score:3)
The idea that the DEI is "Marxist" is known as the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory [wikipedia.org], previously called Cultural Bolshevism [wikipedia.org], which was used to rationalize totalitarianism, war, and the Holocaust.
Re: (Score:2)
The racism was the conversation killer. Pointing it out was was just the retrospective.
You don't get to slip that stuff in and just have it be ignored.
Re: (Score:2)
Privileged nonsense.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
/This/ is what first came to mind?
"Rent-free", bro. CBT can help.
Re: (Score:2)
This rent free comment is just as stupid now as it was the first time someone wrote it.
Re: (Score:2)
That TLA has several meanings, other than the one you are thinking of, such as "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" and "Computer Based Training"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I got modded "troll" for this before, but I'll say it again: Orange Man's dick is so far down Fuckerberg's throat it's making me gag.
Funny, I thought it was the other way around: that Zuck's tongue was so far up Trump's ass that Zuck couldn't dictate any press releases anymore.
Re: Never saw that coming (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
If 1950s' business laws were reapplied billionaires wouldn't exist. Back then antitrust had teeth, unions had power, and jobs were kept in country quite forcefully, and almost everything bigtech does routinelly was strictly forbidden.
Interestingly, I don't hear Conservatives wanting to bring back those 1950s. I wonder why? /s
Re: Never saw that coming (Score:2)
Beyond that, the top tax bracket was 92% and alimony was for life
Also, polio was a widespread debilitating. . . I guess they've made their peace with that one.
Re: (Score:2)
I got modded "troll" for this before, but I'll say it again: Orange Man's dick is so far down Fuckerberg's throat it's making me gag.
Funny, I thought it was the other way around: that Zuck's tongue was so far up Trump's ass that Zuck couldn't dictate any press releases anymore.
Could be both. Mark and Elon have proved to be very flexible, especially when they lean to the right. :-)
(Maybe they're taking pilates?)
Re: (Score:3)
This is nothing to do with that. This is just your 3 yearly reminder that corporations are not doing anything for you, and instead virtue signalling to whichever government is currently running the show.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Never saw that coming (Score:5, Insightful)
It probably just never made any business sense. Tell me, how does stuff like this improve any organization at all?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch... [snopes.com]
Re:Never saw that coming (Score:4, Informative)
I know people are pissed off how often fascism is brought up, but damn if this doesn't feel eerily familiar to nations bending over backwards to appease a certain German leader.
I feel like if I dig further, I could find certain businesses in Germany that did the same thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I got modded "troll" for this before, but I'll say it again: Orange Man's dick is so far down Fuckerberg's throat it's making me gag.
The most unrealistic part of that is that it could ever go “way down”.
Re: (Score:2)
You should have seen it coming.
The Zuck was never a normal middle class person and he has never experienced a normal middle class life or the challenges that go with it. Knowing or understanding the poor? Or LGBT people? Or immigrants? Or PoC? Or the struggles that they, or any other marginalized portion of the population, have in their lives? It's all entirely beyond him... totally outside the Zuck's world and experience.
He's a rich kid birthed from New York money who's been raised and prepared to be
Re: Never saw that coming (Score:2)
Re:Never saw that coming (Score:4, Informative)
then the entire nation flipped on Biden
While the Electoral count was Trump 312 (58%) to Harris 226 (42%), the Popular vote was Trump 77,303,573 (49.9%) and Harris 75,019,257 (48.4%), meaning Trump won by *only* 2,284,316 (1.5%).. Hardly the entire nation flipping; he didn't even get half the popular vote.
Re: Never saw that coming (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Twelve years old, but still relevant.
DEI people are an increase legal risk (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
There's absolutely zero evidence that's true.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Funny, haven't seen the risk of lawsuit mentioned once in any of these articles on the topic. Again, you're pushing your own prejudice and assumptions with absolutely zero data to back it up.
Re: (Score:2)
It's hard to collect evidence of 'more likely to' until it happens, and by the time it happens it's kinda too late for whoever's on the receiving end.
It does seem like a reasonable assumption, however, that people who primarily got their job to fill some kind of politically correct quota are going to push that as far as they can because they do not have the same level of expertise (note that I am not saying they have no expertise) as someone hired entirely on their professional merits to do so.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not how hiring of these folks work. No company is picking people mostly because of the color of their skin or who they choose to date/marry. First and foremost, they're still looking for who can best fill the position and meet their needs. It's simply that all else being equal, they'll consider how diversity within their workforce will benefit their organization and the role.
Studies show companies with a more diverse workforce perform better, drive higher profits, and retain employees better.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, so your super bias method is evidence. That's about as good as asking everyone at a Klan rally who they hate and then claiming everyone in the world also hates the same.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The only people I ever hear talk about it are republican.
Re: (Score:2)
"all the other racists in my community believe the same thing"
Right.
Re: (Score:2)
Project much?
Win (Score:2, Informative)
I congratulate Facebook for ending their racist and sexist policies.
Re:Win (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Win (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"I would love to have some male spaces to go to."
Those are called strip clubs
Re: (Score:2)
Meritocracy in some cases, "old boys' network" in others.
Or in the upcoming U.S. administration, "Broligarchs".
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me, how does the 'old boys' network help you with getting a job in a company that is barely 20 years old and whose average employee age is under 30?
Oh, I wen't to kindergarten with your brother, fine chap he was. I can't tell you how many times he helped me hide Oreos from the teacher in his diaper. That's just the kind of gumption we're looking for here at Meta. Tell me, you don't associate with any of those so called "girls", those cootie-coated vermin, do you?
Re:Win (Score:5, Insightful)
DEI and meritocracy are not mutually exclusive. Not only is there a wealth of evidence that diverse teams develop better solutions - especially when creativity is required, meaning that DEI may be part of the merit of hiring, but there's also a virtually endless set of examples that without DEI merit doesn't necessarily prevail. I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten someone a job, or someone's gotten me a job, or promotion, or some similar white boys club we all circle jerk in to prevail in our society. Yeah I've absolutely gotten a job over another white man who was far better than I am, but hey, I was friends with the hiring manager, tough shit, learn to schmooze more.
Meritocracy is a fantasy.
Re: (Score:2)
DEI and meritocracy are not mutually exclusive.
They are, by definition. You either consider merit OR you consider immutable characteristics. These circles don't intersect.
Re: (Score:2)
You either consider merit OR you consider immutable characteristics. These circles don't intersect.
Of course they do. Being born with high IQ, high level of will-power enhancing hormones, and a set of Big-5 traits that's right now well-aligned with high earning possibilities, in a family able to provide good nutrition and educational opportunities during one's youth, is a set ot immutable characteristics. The tiny amount of actual effort the individual adds atop that huge pile of positive immutables we then label "merit", whereas other individuals that put much more effort but atop a much smaller set of
Re: (Score:2)
DEI and meritocracy are not mutually exclusive.
They are, by definition. You either consider merit OR you consider immutable characteristics. These circles don't intersect.
No, that's wrong. If your organisation has an in-built systematic bias (deliberately or unconsciously) that discriminates for or against a particular immutable characteristic, such as race or sex, then that's not meritocracy - you're hiring based on that characteristic instead of on merit. The whole point of DEI - at least, done right - is to remove that sort of systematic bias. So that you only hire based on merit, suitability for the role, etc.
It's who you know and who you blow! (Score:2)
but there's also a virtually endless set of examples that without DEI merit doesn't necessarily prevail. I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten someone a job, or someone's gotten me a job, or promotion, or some similar white boys club we all circle jerk in to prevail in our society.
It has never been a meritocracy. Also, white people get senior leadership positions more often because of who they are related to or friends with, not their skin color. If your founder was a white guy, chances are your board and executive suite will be filled with his relatives and friends growing up and people he likes working with. It's really stupid to focus on race. Being white doesn't help you one bit in corporate America. Being a white male is a mostly neutral to sometimes slightly negative trait
Re: It's who you know and who you blow! (Score:2)
Why should people in Bangalore feel guilt?
There are many Indian ethnic/religious minorities (Score:2)
Why should people in Bangalore feel guilt?
That's a question to ask them...but I am confident few offices there think about representation. There are many religious and ethnic minorities in India who are underrepresented and from all I've seen, have read, and can tell in talking ot others, it's not a priority in corporate India to ensure fairness or even think about such things...even in offices owned by multinationals where the home office is committed to DEI.
Re: (Score:2)
An example of bias and meritocracy that isn't complicated: Some sport, I forget which, had 3/4 of the professionals people of the same 3 birth months, when on average you'd expect 1/4. There wasn't any intentional birthmonthism going on though; what happened is that kids got separated by school year and then by 100% meritocracy students who were 1/2 year older than other students got favored for more and more training. So if you try to run a meritocracy you need to account for all sorts of things, and check
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Next, let's end equal opportunity in sports such as the NFL draft: [wikipedia.org]
Or maybe using racist and sexist policies to fight racism and sexism is just as hypocritical (or not) as using controlled burns to prevent wildfires! (In other words, fighting fire
Re: (Score:3)
Eliminate MLB's antitrust exemption too, while we're at it!
Oh, wait - that's a special rule that benefits a bunch of old rich white guys, never mind...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This is a win for meritocracy. This is a win for people who are smarter and work harder. Boosting those people, encouraging them to contribute to their fullest, helps everyone.
I congratulate Facebook for ending their racist and sexist policies.
Yep, DEI policies needed to go.
I can recall a conversation some time ago with a co-worker about racism in education and job opportunities, and this was some time ago so DEI hadn't hit its peak yet. I asked where I could find some policy, regulation, or legislation, that worked against anyone in getting an education and/or job. He used words like "systemic" or "endemic" to describe the problem. If that's the case then how is anyone to solve the problem? There's nothing to point to show as evidence of rac
Re: Win (Score:2)
Except DEI (and equal opportunity and affirmative action) is intended to be exactly what you describe at the end. "hire the more diverse/minority candidate all things being otherwise equal". Sometimes that means you have to look a little harder to *find* the equally qualified diverse candidate, because of the results of systemic challenges and processes. Hence things like the NFL coaching interview process that requires them to interview(not necessarily hire) a black candidate.
But as usual to people who've
Re: (Score:2)
But as usual to people who've enjoyed the privilege of the current system, any attempt to even the scales feels like oppression to them.
You mean the current system of DEI? Sure, there's people that will claim oppression by losing their DEI advantage but the very core of DEI is racist, sexist, and other "-ists".
I suspect that is not what you meant by "privilege of the current system", I just thought I'd turn it around to demonstrate how deep the BS has got.
It is near impossible for applicants to any job, university, or whatever, to differ on nothing but their DEI "scores". Someone is almost certainly to come out on top on measures of pure
Re: (Score:2)
> I suspect that is not what you meant by "privilege of the current system", I just thought I'd turn it around to demonstrate how deep the BS has got.
"The current system" is still one that privileges the same groups it always has. DEI did not change that, it barely got a chance to do anything before the usual whiners complained about losing their special positions. I'm sure you thought you were being super clever though.
> It is near impossible for applicants to any job, university, or whatever, to d
Re: (Score:3)
Meta will announce layoffs and by sheer coincidence apply for the same number of H-1Bs. https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
Re: (Score:2)
How embarassing that people actually think this way.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Win (Score:2)
Do you congratulate Zuck for being a shameless opportunist?
If a Nazi becomes the next US president, Zuck will probably be the first to wear a swastika and start writing Yiddish in Fraktur script.
Every program is dying at Meta[stasize] (Score:2, Troll)
No more DEI. No more fact checkers.
The cancer has taken over long ago. And it's spreading.
Re:Every program is dying at Meta[stasize] (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
A fact checker would be a 24-7 job. No one has that kind of money.
Re: (Score:2)
It's super simple. If the dumb shit you believe is by choice, you are mentally ill. That's why everyone makes fun of you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Every program is dying at Meta[stasize] (Score:4, Informative)
Slashdot has tens of daily users.
Re: (Score:3)
Does it bother you that slashdot doesn't fact-check posts?
The difference here is that Slashdot is already dead.
Re: (Score:3)
If this is what finally kills Meta, then good.
Meanwhile, it's highly unlikely that DEI officers and fact checkers ever helped their bottom line.
Just like back in the 30s / 40s (Score:3)
Huge corps turning whichever way the wind blows, who would have thunk it! I feel bad for those who actually thought these greedy chameleons are on their side.. back when twitter and facebook were more like online kangaroo-courts.
It's a useless gesture (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess this will make a nice virtue signal for a certain class of voter but it's not going to help anyone reading this article get hired at meta or anywhere else.
Re: (Score:2)
How can you possibly reach this conclusion when all they did was cut their DEI department? It's a zero value-add function that only existed to improve their ESG score.
Zuckerberg realizes that Blackrock and Vanguard can't use ESG against them anymore, so they trimmed the fat.
In general, no one wants to hire Americans when cheaper labor is available elsewhere. This submission has no specific relation to that fact. DEI departments are functionally useless no matter where you hire, enabling Meta to cut the dep
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is not Americans, but existence of cheaper alternatives to hiring Americans in America.
Didn't the guy you vote for just say how great that is?
Good to see (Score:3)
DEI has as an industry been the wrong answer to some of the right problems (and some of the wrong ones too). Good to see it continue to erode; I just hope we can keep the backlash against DEI not turn into intolerance of difference. The important line is to tolerate difference rather than validate everyone.
"Are" changing. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Are" is a plural verb, "landscape" is a singular noun.
I hate DEI but THIS IS DISGUSTING (Score:2)
But Zuck is only doing this because he is (rightly) afraid Trump will shut down Facebook and THIS is the beginning of a totalitarian US.
When democrats said Trump was a fascist and the republicans laughed it off - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEANT.
Re: (Score:2)
When democrats said Trump was a fascist and the republicans laughed it off - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEANT.
This would only make sense if Zuck was forced to implement these changes under duress. What evidence do you have that Zuck, a white male of Jewish ancestry, is a true believer of DEI and was forced into taking this action?
Re: I hate DEI but THIS IS DISGUSTING (Score:3)
Just because they've ditched DEI programmes doesn't mean they they will suddenly be sexist, racist or anything else. In my opinion it means that they've got so tired of managing impossible DEI politics, trying to please everyone at the same time, that they've given up and will allow people to figure out decent behaviour themselves, as it should have been from the beginning.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, he's doing it because his DEI function is zero value-add that only existed to keep Meta in the good graces of Vanguard and Blackrock. Zuck rightly has concluded that the heydey of ESG is ending and that it's safe to trim DEI dept hires.
Bet they couldn't wait (Score:3)
All the DEI crap got so widespread and intense that it is simply impossible to manage, impossible to please everyone at the same time and, unfortunately, you can't please everyone at the same time. I bet they couldn't wait to ditch all the DEI and all the management of it.
Too Far in Either Direction (Score:4, Interesting)
DEI has become a bit of a four-letter word.
Making sure that people aren't discriminated against, overlooked for promotions, not hired, etc. on the basis of immutable characteristics like race, gender, sex, etc. isn't bad, and needs to be encouraged.
But the general feel of what DEI is is that it's supposed to encourage/promote people that belong to minority groups, and that can come at the expense of someone from a majority group.
If you're considering factors such as race, gender, sex, etc. when hiring or promoting, you're already engaging in some sort of discrimination. Now, some people do have bias, and sometimes (not always) that bias may be unconscious. But I don't think the answer to is to focus so hard on minority groups that you give the perception that you're discriminating against majority groups.
We've unfortunately let the extremes from both sides set the tone (far-left and DEI, far-right and discriminating against minorities). I say this as someone on the left, but I do blame a bit of this on the left listening to the far-left; Equal Employment Opportunities should be enough, but it wasn't for them; it had to go further.
And because of that, you're now seeing this backlash, and I have concerns on where exactly this will lead.
To further complicate it, things like "DEI" are defined and treated differently by different people; there doesn't really seem to be a standard on what it is. Are you just not discriminating or are you discriminating to help someone that has been part of a historically marginalized group? Because there's a difference.
Re: (Score:2)
DEI has become a bit of a four letter word because all the usual idiots ban in about it incessantly and a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.
Making sure people aren't discriminated against for promotions IS DEI and that does come at the expense of the mediocre in the majority because it means they have to now compete on merit. If you are used to a life of privilege then equity feels like oppression.
If you are considering factors like race sex etc for any individual candidate in hiring then you are
Distraction (Score:3)
This is all just a desperate ploy to get MAGA users to come back to Facebook. It obviously won't work, so it will just dilute and worsen his own product and cost him ad revenue. It's almost as if this dingbat isn't good at running a business.
He's just buddying up to Trump so he can get his anti-trust cases thrown out. He doesn't care about any of you barely educated racists and your misguided BS about DEI.
Re: (Score:2)
DEI is racist, xenophobic and idiotic (Score:2)
1. If you're a cis white male, who doesn't accept woke concepts, including feminism, and refuse to change your gender / sexual alignment, through radical means, and refuses to apologize for simply existing, you're the single point of failure and pain for the planet.
2. If you're a white male who accepts the fact you're the problem, and makes great effort to humiliate, denigrate, and punish yourself for nothing, including denouncing whiteness and “the” penis, you're simply disgusting scum, but you might be useful as a some type of slave.
3. If you're a white female, you've been assaulted simply by being born white.
4. If you're a CIS person, and you would rather not radicalize gender and alignment, and believe being straight is acceptable, you're a violent enemy of the LGBTYQ community.
5. If not, you're not white, you're accepted for having value and purpose.
That's literally the DEI stance, DEI is a racist, xenophobic and usually predatory movement. If you want to hear laughable junk from the “woke” / DEI community, look at books like “White Fragility”, which is the new standard of literary garbage. I've used “The Great Gatsby” to demonstrate junk writing, but “White Fragility”... that was the modern literary equivalent of “I have a dream” i
Why is "not being racist" a full-time profession? (Score:3)
I don't have a problem with the idea of "diversity, equity and inclusion". I also don't have a problem with "affirmative action", or with the idea that companies and universities should take extra steps to recruit, hire and promote members of "marginalized groups".
What I do have a problem with is the increasingly-common idea that every company, and every place of learning, needs to hire a full-time "DEI specialist" to explain to them how to do these things. According to Glassdoor, a "DEI specialist" earns an average salary of $123K. (The average salary for a roofer, who does skilled manual labor in a dangerous and unpleasant environment, is $43K).
I get it that if you are engaging in affirmative action-- for example, giving extra points in your hiring algorithm to someone for being a member of a marginalized group-- you may need to spend some time and effort to determine the best way to do that, and you may need to spend a little bit of time tracking the outcome of your efforts. (For example, you have to decide who qualifies as a "member of a marginalized group"-- do you count everyone in a particular demographic, or do you take into account the personal background of each individual? If you are awarding "extra points" in your hiring algorithm, how many points do you award?)
But constructing an affirmative action/DEI policy should be, at most, a few days' worth of work, and it's something that should only have to be altered or reviewed every few years. I'm not even sure that it needs to be done independently by different companies (it seems like someone could construct an industry-wide guideline to "best practices" in this area, and HR departments could simply follow that). I can't imagine why you would need to pay someone with a graduate degree to wake up every morning, drive to work, and put in a solid 8 hours on DEI-related tasks, five days a week, week after week, year after year.
I literally don't know how a "DEI specialist" fills his or her time, although I'm sure they find ways to do it. It seems to me that DEI specialists are hired not because they do useful work, but because simply having them on the payroll provides some extra layer of protection against lawsuits.
That's awesome news..... (Score:2)
for when the USA reintroduces slaver....er, guaranteed employment for PoC.
We know who'l be "just following orders"
Better headline (Score:2)
Zuckerberg continues to Zuck up to Trump/Musk/MAGA.
Re:"It's okay, we're racist not too!" (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think this means anything more than when they claimed to be fully committed to DEI.
Content moderation was a commitment to prioritising the truth. Now removing content moderation is a commitment to prioritising the truth.
They're a value-free corporation that will shift with the political winds.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: "It's okay, we're racist not too!" (Score:2)
Commitment!
They keep using that word. I don't think it means what they think it means.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Then he goose stepped over to his third yacht and motored over to his bomb shelter.
Re: (Score:2)