UK Users Show Little Concern as Apple Removes iCloud Encryption (bloomberg.com) 77
British iPhone users have shown minimal reaction to Apple's decision to disable end-to-end encryption for UK iCloud customers, challenging the company's assumption about privacy priorities, a Bloomberg columnist notes. Rather than create a government-accessible backdoor demanded under Britain's Investigatory Powers Act, Apple chose to eliminate its Advanced Data Protection feature entirely for UK customers, effectively giving both authorities and potential hackers easier access to stored emails, photos and documents.
The near absence of public outcry from British consumers points to what researchers call the "privacy paradox," where stated concerns about data security rarely translate to action. According to cited research, while 92% of American consumers believe they should control their online information, only 16% have stopped using services over data misuse. The quiet reception suggests Apple's principled stand against backdoors may have limited impact if customers don't understand or value encrypted protection, potentially undermining privacy's effectiveness as a marketing differentiator for the tech giant.
The near absence of public outcry from British consumers points to what researchers call the "privacy paradox," where stated concerns about data security rarely translate to action. According to cited research, while 92% of American consumers believe they should control their online information, only 16% have stopped using services over data misuse. The quiet reception suggests Apple's principled stand against backdoors may have limited impact if customers don't understand or value encrypted protection, potentially undermining privacy's effectiveness as a marketing differentiator for the tech giant.
No shit (Score:1, Flamebait)
If you'll fall for Russians pretending to be your countrymen telling you to leave the union responsible for your financial success, you'll fall for anything.
Speaking of which, I've got some Republicans whose motto went from "better dead than red" to "Better Russian than Democrat" to mock, next
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, simultaneously responsible for England's success and Greece's bankruptcy.
Yes, that's true. They forced austerity on Greece, which never works.
The GBP was the strongest going in, and it remains among the strongest post-Brexit.
The EU definitely should not have allowed the UK to join without giving up the UKP in favor of the Euro. That was a huge mistake.
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Any proof of that or is it you just think Brexit was a bad choice and it must be the evil Russians to blame.
Or maybe its just that the people who don't agree with you are just morons, easily fooled by the evil Russians (Ad hominem).
Re: No shit (Score:2)
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
When the official report into Russian interference in the run up to the referendum still hasn't been released nearly ten years later it's not very surprising that some people think it's been deliberately suppressed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: No shit (Score:1)
And thatâ(TM)s why itâ(TM)s perfectly reasonable for Remainers to talk about another referendum to rejoin. I think Brexiteers being rude and juvenile towards Remainers on this is just their fear of losing next time. With 3.5 million EU citizens remaining in the UK and potentially getting citizenship and the right to vote, as well as the older democratic dying out, itâ(TM)s reasonable to expect that the UK could indeed rejoin the EU.
Re:Same (Score:5, Insightful)
So long as you aren't openly sharing my data with every attacker, I don't see why I'd care about e2e encryption for personal data. I don't have illegal content on my devices.
Mainly because if you don't have end-to-end encryption for personal data, there's no way to be sure you aren't openly sharing your data with every attacker. It is ridiculously easy to add a new certificate to a device's trust store, and the average user will click right through when a website asks them to do things like that. So now, instead of silent network failures, suddenly when your device is on that compromised Wi-Fi network at the coffee shop, your private messages are being slurped up by the hackers who compromised it.
Data doesn't have to be illegal to be embarrassing.
Re: (Score:2)
What world do you live in where it's easy to add a trusted certificate to an Apple device?
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What world do you live in where it's easy to add a trusted certificate to an Apple device?
Never used MDM?
North Korea (Score:2)
You are the people the article is about (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Same (Score:5, Interesting)
There are so many things wrong with this statement, but to start with, what is or isn't illegal now might change with the next government. (Ask women in the US who have considered having an abortion if you think that's a someone-else problem that only applies in far away places with different cultures.)
You can now get in trouble for things you've said or done that aren't actually illegal.
It's not just about illegal content and your own police being able to access it, it's also about a commercial organisation with many thousands of employees being able to access it, and anyone else who manages to compromise that system being able to access it.
The list goes on. Everyone should be worried about moves to weaken online security. And contrary to the claim in the garbagewalled article that iPhone users have shown minimal interest, this story made the #1 spot on literally every major news and discussion website I use last week and in several cases stayed there for a day or more with unusually high participation in the resulting discussions.
Re:Same (Score:4, Informative)
As for police access, you are basically screwed in the UK. It's a crime to not give them your password. To claim that you forgot you are up against the fact that you probably unlocked your phone quite recently. I don't know how iPhones do it but Android devices require your password, not just a biometric unlock, every few days. I suppose you could say you recently changed it and forgot it, but then you are at the mercy of the jury believing you.
You can get a couple of years in prison for refusing to give the police access to your devices. Of course if the crime you are accused of is worse you may prefer to take the two years.
Other random people getting into your iCloud account is still a concern, and of course Apple has a history with that.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Unless you are tory
Re: Same (Score:1)
Why should your phone be any different to your home if theyâ(TM)ve got a warrant?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Uh, no, there is still the privacy policy. There is still encryption (where they have the keys). There is just no E2E encryption.
As for thousands of employees and hackers having access, there are at least 500 million users in the cloud. What are the chances of someone taking the interest in getting my data if I'm not actively painting a bullseye on my back by doing something very unordinary with my data? Very, very small. There is a good word for worrying about things like that: paranoia.
Ignorance (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience, MOST Apple users don't care about tech, they just want a status accessory.
And that is your experience. In my experience, the iPhone people I know don't care about status especially the ones that are not teenagers. They want a phone that works for them. Some of them started using iPhones as their first smart phone and they don't want to learn a new system. Yes Android has more options and most apps have both Android and iPhone versions, but they do not want to switch.
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Insightful)
In my experience, MOST Apple users don't care about tech, they just want a status accessory.
And that is your experience. In my experience, the iPhone people I know don't care about status especially the ones that are not teenagers. They want a phone that works for them. Some of them started using iPhones as their first smart phone and they don't want to learn a new system. Yes Android has more options and most apps have both Android and iPhone versions, but they do not want to switch.
True enough. There's more reasons to not switch as well. I use Apple products because they integrate seamlessly with each other. I also prefer UNIX, I also use terminal every day on My Macs.
You are right about people wanting something that works. I would just caution everone that wanting a reliable phone that gets along with their computers and other Apple devices is not an indicator of incompetence as some in here might claim.
It's a gaddamned phone and texting device, and I want it to work and integrate every time I pick it up to use it. That's the strange thing to me - my iPhone is like my washing machine and my refrigerator, an appliance. I have 0 interest in people orgasming when they see me pull out the phone. Ain't no status symbol, it's a tool.
Now all that said, have people not learned yet that if they want to do illegal things with any smartphone, they are monumentally stupid? I'd say that level of stupidity pretty much deserves getting caught and punished.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
You are right about people wanting something that works. I would just caution everone that wanting a reliable phone that gets along with their computers and other Apple devices is not an indicator of incompetence as some in here might claim.
What an odd statement. An iPhone is worthless to me, and quite a few other professions, precisely because it doesn't get along well with computers. I've seen this also cause problems for non-professionals as well, though this has improved a little for those use cases in recent years.
Back when the silly things were new, I was traveling with a colleague who needed to send a file on his laptop. Public wireless networks were becoming increasingly common, but we couldn't find one in whatever backwater we hap
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Informative)
His only hope was to find some way to send the file from his iPhone
This is trivially easy. If the document is stored on iCloud, it's already on your phone. If it isn't on iCloud, just AirDrop it to your iPhone. I haven't tried this third one for some time, but I believe you can still transfer a file using an actual cable connected between the iPhone and the computer.
If your laptop is a PC you're mostly SOL, but I suppose you could create a hotspot using the iPhone and just send it from the computer.
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An iPhone is worthless to me, and quite a few other professions, precisely because it doesn't get along well with computers. I've seen this also cause problems for non-professionals as well, . . Back when the silly things were new,
Do I understand that your opinion is partially based on the capabilities of a brand new device 17 years ago?
Re: (Score:2)
You are right about people wanting something that works. I would just caution everone that wanting a reliable phone that gets along with their computers and other Apple devices is not an indicator of incompetence as some in here might claim.
What an odd statement. An iPhone is worthless to me, and quite a few other professions, precisely because it doesn't get along well with computers.
Well okay - it is worthless to you, so we need to stop making and using them.
Fascinating! My iPhone connects to all my other Apple devices, I can work on the iPhone and iPad, making a seamless instrument. Mac, iPhone and iPad., and it functions as another device. It integrates seamlessly with my Jeep infotainment system - it is an extension of my Macs, and extension of my iPad.
So homie I take it you have intense and extended use of your Mac Products and you know just how terrible the almost unuseable iph
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Funny)
Yep.
As soon as someone starts talking about Apple devices being status symbols, I know that I can safely stop reading.
Re: (Score:1)
That's what I wanted for my parents, but unfortunately all of the gestures on iPhones are confusing and often inadvertently triggered. They need permanent on-screen buttons for navigation. All the contextual things that only appear in certain conditions and options that slide out and that type of navigation confuses them.
It would be great if there was a phone with only 4 apps: Email, SMS Messaging, Web Browser, Camera/Gallery, and 4 physical buttons for accessing each of them /switching between them.
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Informative)
In Canada for example, I would say iPhone represent about 10-15% of active devices.
Based on what data?
Nothing online comes even close to showing the number you're suggesting. The reality is more like ~60% of mobile phones in canada are iPhones. (and to answer your original question ~50% of UK users). Curious to see your data that counter these.
https://mobilesyrup.com/2024/1... [mobilesyrup.com]
https://heytony.ca/usage-of-sm... [heytony.ca]
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-... [statcounter.com]
https://gs.statcounter.com/ven... [statcounter.com]
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I would say iPhone represent about 10-15% of active devices
That also brings up probably the biggest point of the lack of end to end encryption. It's not a closed ecosystem. It doesn't matter when they don't interoperate, because you are going to be limited regardless.
Though in the UK it seems that Apple's share is much larger - a little under half.
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Insightful)
In my experience most iPhone users are older people. The younger ones want a cool phone, not a middle age jeans-and-shirt phone.
As for the lack of outcry, I guess if you want security then you probably didn't buy an Apple device in the first place. As for privacy, we are still stuck with the culture of assuming that the police and security services are at least somewhat trustworthy.
Anyone who cares wouldn't be using an iPhone or iCloud, and everyone else probably doesn't even understand what is happening.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Older people are still trying to use flip phones. You might be an idiot.
Re: (Score:3)
In my experience most iPhone users are older people. The younger ones want a cool phone, not a middle age jeans-and-shirt phone.
Android phones are cool?
As for the lack of outcry, I guess if you want security then you probably didn't buy an Apple device in the first place. As for privacy, we are still stuck with the culture of assuming that the police and security services are at least somewhat trustworthy.
Anyone who cares wouldn't be using an iPhone or iCloud, and everyone else probably doesn't even understand what is happening.
Are you actually Amimojo? Thinking that Android phones are secure is about the worst mistake that a person could make. I've said it before, if a person uses a smartphone to commit crimes, thinking that the onl;y way to get caught is using an Apple device, they have a name for them - convicts. Seems like you should be smarter than that.
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you have to remember that the US is unusual when it comes to the iPhone's dominance. It's very different in Europe where we have a much wider selection of phones and Android is the most popular. Google, Nokia, Huawei, Oppo, Nothing, OnePlus, Alcatel, Samsung, LG, Honor, Motorola, Doro, HMD, Sony, Xiaomi, and more.
Apple devices are the target of many Israeli (in)security firms who specialize in unlocking them, and they seem to get most of them open eventually. iCloud's (in)security has resulted in some high profile hacks as well. Meanwhile Google accounts are pretty robust, even for fairly clueless users, even if some of the phones aren't. The variety of Android devices works in your favour too, as it means less chance of your particular one being the target of some Israeli company.
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Us has the same selection, but not so big on the chinese govt phones.
Re: (Score:3)
And maybe those Chinese android devices with the pre-installed monitoring spyware - maybe that was fake news. I bought a couple to test, and if a person believes they are secure - well, p
Re: (Score:2)
I think you have to remember that the US is unusual when it comes to the iPhone's dominance. It's very different in Europe where we have a much wider selection of phones and Android is the most popular. Google, Nokia, Huawei, Oppo, Nothing, OnePlus, Alcatel, Samsung, LG, Honor, Motorola, Doro, HMD, Sony, Xiaomi, and more.
Apple devices are the target of many Israeli (in)security firms who specialize in unlocking them, and they seem to get most of them open eventually. iCloud's (in)security has resulted in some high profile hacks as well. Meanwhile Google accounts are pretty robust, even for fairly clueless users, even if some of the phones aren't. The variety of Android devices works in your favour too, as it means less chance of your particular one being the target of some Israeli company.
Good to hear that Android devices are inherently secure. So if they are so secure, why doesn't the UK demand they have backdoors - seems like with criminals knowing how secure they are it is a vector for the bad guys to do as they wish, and their data is safe beyond the law. Who knew?
Re: (Score:2)
They will probably be coming for Google next. Android backups have been E2E encrypted since Android 9, released in 2018.
Re: (Score:2)
Not really 'incorrect' as they used the clause 'in my experience'.
We do not know their experience, though we can make assumptions about their observations.
I could say, "In my experience, crack cocaine is awesome!"
That wouldn't really be incorrect, as it's just what I've experienced.
(Don't do crack. Well, don't do too much crack.)
Re: (Score:1)
What percentage of mobile users in the UK use an iPhone? In my experience, MOST Apple users don't care about tech, they just want a status accessory.
In my experience, most Apple users don't care about tech, they just want a phone that just works and you don't have to mess with to get it to do what they want.
Androids are getting there now, but iPhones are still a bit better with the "turn it on, press the buttons and it does stuff" simplicity.
(and there's no particular status in having an iPhone anymore. Maybe five years ago, but now nobody says "ooh! an iPhone! He must be cool!")
So if that is the case in the UK as well, perhaps users just don't understand what is occurring living the "ignorance is bliss" model.
Exactly. And the price they pay for "ignorance is bliss" operation
Re: (Score:2)
Plus if you complain about it, you probably get put in jail for hate speech.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh believe me theres a lot of subservient cretins in britain.
Re: (Score:2)
These days Apple maintains lock-in using iMessage. I know my kid basically uses it like a mini social network among their friends. It has a lot of features that I wouldn't personally use cuz I'm an old fa
Re: (Score:3)
There's less momentum there than you'd think. BBM was the iMessage of its day, but it collapsed seemingly overnight. The same is true for countless other messaging platforms.
Re: (Score:1)
Part of the ignorance is not even knowing that ADP was a thing. Apple didn't publicise it, it isn't set on by default and not one person I know with an iPhone had heard of it until the news broke that in the UK it isn't available any more.
If you don't know about something your phone isn't doing you're not going to kick up much fuss when it can no longer do that thing. The most you'll get is "oh, what's that? I might have wanted to use that. Oh well, never mind."
I love how... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: I love how... (Score:2)
Not one commenter here is even remotely concerned about the UK gov wanting a "Backdoor" to read private communications.
Probably because the story is actually about them wanting the ability to access encrypted backups stored in iCloud.
Sigh.... (Score:2)
Apple haven't removed "iCloud encryption", data is still encrypted both on route and in-situ. They have only removed "end to end" encryption, which prevents anyone (including Apple and authorities) other than the user from decrypting the data.
The vast majority of users haven't even heard of "iCloud Advanced Data Protection" (which enables e2e encryption), let alone enabled it (it is off by default).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Most definitely if you are concerned about a real risk of your data/identify being stolen vs a hypothetical risk of some government caring enough about you to steal your data.
If a person is truly concerned about the privacy of their data, they won't be storing it on a computer. We have these discussions with people complaing that iPhones and Apple products are not secure.
It's like trying to decide which size screen doors to put on a submarine.
UK has become an island of Sheep (Score:2)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne... [dailymail.co.uk]
Next they are coming for ewe.
Re:UK has become an island of Sheep (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Ad hominems aren't credible either. We don't have any credible corporate news sources so it's necessary to state specific objections to any "report".
It's a total waste of time and the incentives are perverse.
Maybe technology can assist but deep moral rot is core and difficult (so most people take a pass).
Obviously (Score:2)
I guess 99% of people have no idea what encryption really is and what is that they've lost.
They will become concerned once their government and authorities will start start to learn things about them that they never intended to share with anyone but we are talking about individuals. The rest will realize the importance of this only after some major scandals and news stories.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess 99% of people have no idea what encryption really is and what is that they've lost.
>99% of people haven't turned on the level of E2E encryption that Apple no longer allows in the UK, and so have lost nothing.
Almost no one was using it (Score:2)
Seriously, you have to manually take a step to enable E2E on iCloud and apple gives you very scary (and very real warnings) about data loss if you lose your keys. Most people are not using it.
What do you expect? (Score:2)
The average person understands nothing. How would they understand what this means?
I think we are worried about it, but (Score:1)
Re: The english are toddlers (Score:2)
ROFLOL - going to age like Brexit (Score:1)
"Privacy Paradox" (Score:2)
"So you SAY they care about privacy, yet you don't change your lifestyle or complain enough when we take it from you. Curious!"
And how are they even measuring complaints?
people using this stuff (Score:1)
probably keep it quiet and don't say a thing... also, are able to use something else in case this sort of thing happens; and were probably already doing so
boilng frog (Score:2)
the uk has been simmering for decades, now we're boiling we havent even noticed
Bloomberg OpEd? Yeah. No thanks... (Score:3, Interesting)
At no point should anyone, anywhere, trust what major news organizations in the USA publish. They're all owned by Republicans, and they all push their agenda in subtle, and not-so-subtle, ways.
Not very surprising (Score:2)
People just don't care about security. Sure we are a small subgroup of society do care, but in general they do not.
Look at these examples:
Credit cards, why are there still just numbers that enter on a random web site on them, why are they not challenge response? Its old technology but because its slightly more expensive, and slightly more inconvenient it hasn't been implemented.
Paywave, why doesn't it force you to have a pin, under 2FA which all the institutions say is SO important, it should be at least 2
American, class action sledgehammer (Score:2)
With great power to encrypt... (Score:2)
comes great responsibility to remember your passwords.
Apple does not do end-to-end encryption by default, because for every person whose data was protected from bad actors, there are probably thousands who have forgotten or misplaced their Apple ID passwords.
If end-to-end encryption is on, those people are screwed, and will be pissed at Apple for "losing their data".
If you understand the trade-off and take the responsibility to remember your passwords, you can enable end-to-end encryption.
Except in the UK,
Same issue as always (Score:2)
In the 90â(TM)s, we developed Windows software that encrypted and signed email, offered secure file transfer, secure FAX, and secure chat. It was simple to use and incorporated the latest RSA libraries (before the scandal). It blocked email that failed dkim. We had law firms expressing interest.
We were going to charge $99. And, we even ported it Mac so it was cross platform.
Then, Microsoft and Netscape offered encrypted email for free just as we were to about accept VC. And WinSCP allowed secure fi
Re: Same issue as always (Score:2)
Just an opinion but (Score:2)
UK users probably assumed their government was already listening in on everything anyway. The weren't even aware that phones were probably the one place where they weren't. Having Apple turn it off won't make any difference to them. Criminals will always find other ways to hide their communications.