Trump Signs Order Aiming To Close the Education Department (npr.org) 387
President Trump signed a long-expected executive action on Thursday calling on U.S. Education Secretary Linda McMahon to "take all necessary steps to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education and return authority over education to the States and local communities." From a report: "We're going to be returning education, very simply, back to the states where it belongs," Trump said. "And this is a very popular thing to do, but much more importantly, it's a common sense thing to do, and it's going to work, absolutely."
The move has been expected since early February, when the White House revealed its intentions but withheld the action until after McMahon's Senate confirmation. It now arrives more than a week after the Trump administration has already begun sweeping layoffs at the Education Department. According to the administration's own numbers, Trump inherited a department with 4,133 employees. Nearly 600 workers have since chosen to leave, by resigning or retiring. And last week, 1,300 workers were told they would lose their jobs as part of a reduction in force. That leaves 2,183 staff at the department -- roughly half the size it was just a few weeks ago.
The order instructs McMahon to act "to the maximum extent appropriate and permitted by law," an acknowledgement that the department and its signature responsibilities were created by Congress and cannot legally be ended without congressional approval. That would almost certainly require 60 votes in the U.S. Senate to overcome a Democratic filibuster.
The move has been expected since early February, when the White House revealed its intentions but withheld the action until after McMahon's Senate confirmation. It now arrives more than a week after the Trump administration has already begun sweeping layoffs at the Education Department. According to the administration's own numbers, Trump inherited a department with 4,133 employees. Nearly 600 workers have since chosen to leave, by resigning or retiring. And last week, 1,300 workers were told they would lose their jobs as part of a reduction in force. That leaves 2,183 staff at the department -- roughly half the size it was just a few weeks ago.
The order instructs McMahon to act "to the maximum extent appropriate and permitted by law," an acknowledgement that the department and its signature responsibilities were created by Congress and cannot legally be ended without congressional approval. That would almost certainly require 60 votes in the U.S. Senate to overcome a Democratic filibuster.
More BS from the regime (Score:2, Insightful)
There are a lot of programs that the DOE administers. They'll continue as Trump cannot stop them. That's most of the money.
This is not the Carter DOE. Ed in the Fed has existed for over a century. They just reorganized in the Carter years.
The DOE did NCLB and other fuckery, so I won't especially miss it.
The real issues are Trump violating laws through his cuts and withholding, and spineless Congress allowing him to do so. Spineless on both sides of the aisle.
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Re: More BS from the regime (Score:5, Informative)
@TheMiddleRoad
You are wrong. The Dept of Ed didn't "do NCLB." That was a bi-partisan bill championed by G. W. Bush, spurred on by his wife who was an educator. The executive doesn't pass bills, Congress does that. You, like seemingly most of America, evidently have no clue as to what Ed does. It doesn't dictate how to educate; it doesn't micromanage the states. It mostly distributes funds, conducts research, and ensures the states adheres to Federal law and the Constitution. Most of the discourse about the dept has come from the Right, so this propaganda what most people have heard. Educate yourself, before you wreck yourself.
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Your mistake is thinking they care about facts and reality.
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump violates the consitution for government spending - often gets confused and lies about it aka condoms for Gaza, has to rehire the majority people he fired due to legal reasons or because the people are national security, asks judges who maintain the constitution to be impeached, threaten peaceful countries such as Greenland, and exporting people to foreign prisons without due process. This doesn't even scratch the surface of the negative disruption caused in his 2nd term so far.
Trumper: Oh so you mean your entire argument is orange man bad?
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:5, Interesting)
If its not "threatening greenland", then its "threatening denmark", which is just as cartoonishly evil.
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:5, Insightful)
He's also threatening Canada, which is the friendliest, most peaceful neighbour a country could hope for.
At the same time he's friendly towards Russia, who is the worst, most aggressive neighbour you could possibly get.
As Darth Putin would say, Russia became the biggest country in the world by peacefully defending itself in other people's countries.
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Well, I think Marco Rubio probably needs to be sent back to school because when you say that someone doesn’t have a right to have a country, that’s an act of war. When you rip up, arbitrarily, trade agreements and threaten and say you’re going to break a country, that’s an act of war. And Canadians have responded in kind.
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Lets see:
- Lockdowns
- Travel restrictions
- Emergencies Act invokment and freezing bank accounts of citizens
- UBI law proposals on the books (more than one)
- CERB paiments
- Solution to every problem is spending more money (money printing, tool #1 of Marxists)
- Highest taxes and wealth redistribution policies
- Fake Green policies to steel more money from its citizens
- Price controls
- Production quotas
- Free speech controls
- Subsidizing of the media to control the narrative (plus latest bribe is to promise dou
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Re:More BS from the regime (Score:4, Insightful)
Funding issues are a function of the Congress, and as such, Trump can push Congress to do this or that, but really, all of the things Trump is trying to do SHOULD be going through Congress, which would then have a vote. The fact that Trump is trying to bypass the proper system of checks and balances goes against what is listed in the US Constitution. We are not at war, no war has been declared, so the majority of the things Trump is trying to do is complete overreach.
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You’re not exposing “regime BS”—you’re manufacturing your own.
Your comment relies on constitutional misstatements, false claims about Supreme Court rulings, emotionally loaded phrasing, and projection. If you want to debate debt relief on the merits, fine. But start by ditching the misrepresentations and getting your facts straight.
Were you okay with Biden using taxpayer money to pay off student loans?
Nice framing trick: Your leading question tries to present this as if it’s a scandal. Every federal program uses taxpayer money—studen
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It is truly fascinating to see the cheers as the orange shitgibbon and the South African Nazi, who is - according to papa Errol - "not racist because he never spat on out black servants", dismantle the US and turn it into a Latin American shithole look-alike.
That after downgrading it from a world super power to a regional bully.
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Who's "abusing", baby? If it talks like a Nazi, siegs like a Nazi and buys elections to support Nazi policies, it is a Nazi.
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Who is abusing it? If it salutes like a Nazi, and attends extreme far right German rallies like a Nazi what else do you call it? A very naughty boy?
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:5, Insightful)
If it salutes like a Nazi
When spastic hand waving on a stage is all that required to be called a Nazi, then it is not a big deal to be a Nazi. You are de-stigmatizing Nazism. That is a huge problem created by people like you that want to abuse the term for political gain.
Spastic hand waving? Is that the excuse this week? There is no resemblance at all between what Elon did and "hand waving" as anyone would understand it. Particularly when combined with the "gesture starts at the chest" preamble. And once extended, it did not wave (or waver).
Or, as Stephen Colbert put it [youtu.be]: "For the past 80 years on human history there are only a couple of acceptable positions for a fully extended arm. Okay? It goes [reaches down to waist height] pet the puppy, [raise to chest height] tossle your nephew's hair, and [raises straight in the air] hail a cab. In between nephew down here and hail a cab up here...this is called the danger zone."
Musk apologists and fanbois keep going on about how smart he supposedly is. He's not the most graceful person, but neither is he a spaz prone to uncontrollable movements. He knew what he was doing and how it would be interpreted. The real question isn't whether it was a Nazi salute - it clearly was - but rather why he was doing it? Was it to own the libs? Or was it because he's showing his true colors.
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:5, Informative)
That's AI you moron, a channel with 8 subscribers?
Re:More BS from the regime (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow. You can't seriously believe that, can you? Who the fuck do you think you're fooling anyway?
Was it a Nazi salute? Nazi's certainly think so, as do other white-supremacist groups. So do his defenders, like noted Charlie Kirk, who has to tell and obvious lie about the nature of the gesture because it's so obvious even he couldn't deny it outright. (Charlie Kirk and his organization regularly provides a sympathetic platform to white supremacists while cynically denying their support for white supremacy. If it walks like a duck...)
Also, as if you didn't already know, there's a lot more to support the Musk Nazi claims than just his multiple recent Nazi salutes. His recent address to the AfD, for example, should leave little doubt in your mind where his sympathies lie, if his conduct on his failing social media site wasn't enough confirmation for you.
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Have you seen the video? Because that is not what happened. Incidentally, the actual experts (German prosecution) also thinks it was a Nazi salute, which happens to be illegal to display in Germany. Musk doing his "spastic hand waving" being projected on the Tesla Factory in Germany triggered an investigation for the "use of anti-constitutional symbols". If these people think it is a Nazi-salute, is is one.
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The guy gave a Nazi salute at the inauguration. He's a Nazi. They're all Nazis.
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Indeed. It really is as simple as that.
Yes, they may not be hardcore Nazis (yet), but their actions are also pretty clear. And they already did concentration camps and imprisoning people there without due cause. Sure, at this time they are not outright death-camps and they did outsource the job, but that is only a matter of degree. There are no good Nazis. They are all evil. Period.
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You know how to identify Nazis?
"Look for whoever who disagrees with me."
FTFY.
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"Look for whoever who disagrees with me."
Given the topic of whether ripping off a Nazi salute is bad, then yes people who disagree with me on that are most likely Nazis. Non Nazis generally are not in favour of Nazi symbolism.
Re: More BS from the regime (Score:4, Insightful)
You missed this bit:
and say you can't call everyone a Nazi
If you called Ghandi a Nazi, the Nazis of today would fall all over themselves to agree with you. It's the same reason why today's racists are so desperate to paint everyone else, especially people who call out their obvious racism, as the "real racists" even as they themselves continue to openly say and do racist things.
When you call a Nazi a Nazi, that's when the Nazis "come out of the woodwork and say you can't call everyone a Nazi." It's transparently cynical. Nazis, of course, think they're being clever.
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Whatever, it isn't like it is my country. Fuck it up as much as you want. And masturbate about it as much as you would.
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Re: More BS from the regime (Score:2)
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orange man bad
leon/elmo bad
Yes. No need to state the obvious.
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Yeah actually, they are bad, dipshit.
Wants to re-write history (Score:3, Insightful)
Trump wants to re-write history and only teach things he agrees with. He has already deleted plenty of inconvenient truths from the Department of Defense website and purged photos that show historical events he doesn't agree with. Returning education to the states is his attempt to let states warp their curriculum to whatever version of history is in favor this year.
Moon landing? Didn't happen.
Holocaust? Made up to justify WWII.
Evolution? False because apes can't talk.
Bible study? Mandatory.
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More to the point, it is an an attempt to let the Christian jackoffs control education in the States since they'll vote for whatever silliness he comes up with.
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Holocaust? Made up to justify WWII.
Trump is on the opposite end of that camp. By that I mean ignoring everything which was done in the middle east post Holocaust. He basically gave Netanyahu a reacharound the last time they met.
Re:Wants to re-write history (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump wants to re-write history and only teach things he agrees with
Isn't he relinquishing his federal power over education by dismantling the federal department of education? I mean if that's his goal, to rewrite history and control what is taught, wouldn't he want to consolidate power at his level of the government even more?
I just don't understand the logic here, because he wouldn't need to return control to the states. It is totally within his power to have the education department let the states do whatever they want (and for the most part they already can, right?) and continue spending tons of federal money on the department.
How does dismantling the federal DOE make states like California teach what Trump wants them to? I'm legitimately curious how dismantling the DOE will impact what my kids are taught in school. If there's something I'm missing here I'd like to know what it is, because this power could be wielded by either side down the road when we have a different president.
Re:Wants to re-write history (Score:5, Insightful)
The goal is to make it as difficult as possible for public schools to function so that they can justify funneling public money into private schools. For most of them, it's a cash grab. For the rest, it's a way to get our tax dollars to pay for compulsory Jesus lessons.
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Re:Wants to re-write history (Score:4, Insightful)
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They're on both ends of the spectrum, and some in the middle too.
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Exactly.
It's easier to read if you use the diamond shaped political compass where on the furthest end of left and right you have "communist" and "fascist" and on the top and bottom you have "Democracy" and "Anarchy"
Most US political parties are in the upper-right section. The GOP is presently overlapping with fascist pretty easily, and the only thing that is stopping them is the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court decides to be loyal to Trump instead of the Constitution, then the Constitution has been torn
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It's easier to read if you use the diamond shaped political compass where on the furthest end of left and right you have "communist" and "fascist" and on the top and bottom you have "Democracy" and "Anarchy"
I don't think "communist"/"fascist" and "democracy"/"anarchy" are exactly opposites. I prefer The Political Compass [politicalcompass.org] axes - the horizontal axis is economics (where the left end is full communism and the right end is full laissez-faire) and the vertical axis is social (bottom end is full libertarian and top end is full authoritarian).
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As much as Jewish and Palestinian people will not admit it. They are the same people.
Fuck off and don't presume to speak for me.
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Holocaust deniers are among the stupid population everywhere. Despite the rhetoric and shade team red throws at team blue and vis versa it turns out that neither end of the political spectrum is actually moron free.
But you aren't doing yourself any intellectual favours by pretending that is a partisan topic and referring to tabloids for evidence.
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What the fuck newspaper is the New York Sun?
Re: Wants to re-write history (Score:2)
@DrMrLordX
There is a difference between anti-semitic and against the policies of the current Israeli govt. Don't fall into the stupid propaganda hole of the Right and conflate the two. One can despise the policies of Netanyahu and the actions of the IDF in Gaza that have resulted in mass civilian casualties that would not be tolerated by the modern US military before the ascension of Hegseth.
There is far, far more anti-semitism on the Right and amongst Trump supporters. Of the two Dems you cite, ilhan Omar
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Anti Israel does not equate to anti Jewish.
Pandering to his base (Score:5, Interesting)
No practical way to stop him. (Score:4, Insightful)
But Trump can just close it and there are no cops to enforce the court rulings. Thanks to SCOTUS's 5th Avenue Gift Card, Impeachment is just about the only thing that can stop Don from just doing whatever the fuck he wants, and that takes 2/3 of Congress, which is unlikely to happen because Don has GOP by the balls by threatening to fund campaigns against disloyal GOP reps.
He's a thug. It's civil war or we will be Nazified.
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But Trump can just close it and there are no cops to enforce the court rulings.
The courts can deputize people to physically carry out court orders. It can hold people that are not the president criminally and or civilly in contempt of court. The president never actually physically does anything himself.
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And asshole can call out his own Maggot army like he did on Jan. 6. Good luck getting the deputies to fight against that crew when that crew is composed of neo-Nazis and willing to start shooting. They aren't training in private militias for no reason.
Re:No practical way to stop him. (Score:5, Interesting)
There are fixes for the problem but again they will never happen due to voters self interests being put ahead of their desire to have a robust democracy.
I assume after you guys finish gutting your government the next step to deal with those pesky voters having a say. You don't want them voting for change in 2028.
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The fact that majority voted for this is hard to comprehend.
It's more like 1/3 of the country when you look at the popular vote.
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More scarily, the President could probably say "you can do what you want to any court deputies, just stop them, do what you have to, I'll pardon you". All legal protections for anyone acting on behalf of the court count for very little against an armed mob protected by presidential immunity.
It will be economics that does this president in. The masses (via pensions) and the 1% haven't started to feel the stock market pressure ... yet. Stock market down leads to lack of confidence, less investment, less jobs,
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I've heard he occasionally throws ketchup on the walls all by himself.
Re: No practical way to stop him. (Score:2)
Re: No practical way to stop him. (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you're a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it's true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number
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It's civil war or we will be Nazified
That is just ridiculous drama and if you actually believed that you'd be cashing out your 401k and buying guns and canned food. I imagine you're not though.
Trump is shit hole of a human being, is not to be trusted, and is likely to do a lot of damage to our government and international standing. To say our only way from here is either Nazism or civil war is preposterous though. His approval rating is already dropping and if he keeps on this path he'll loose congressional majority in less than 2 years and fr
Re:No practical way to stop him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless of course the Insurrection Act enters the picture. You don't think these guys are incapable of manufacturing a crisis in key blue states that "force" the Administration to send in the Army and put those states under military control? These guys haven't got where they are just to let the voters get in their way.
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It's civil war or we will be Nazified.
Sorry, shitposting on the internet does not qualify as engaging in a civil war and your furry suit does not qualify as rebel's uniform.
And then... (Score:5, Insightful)
And they will keep on fucking voting for the people who keep making things worse for them, again and again, and blame literally everyone else.
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The real problem will be that agricultural states will be badly hurt. They reproduce the most and lack the jobs for population growth. They have to urbanize and if a child is raised in Farmville, they'll have great difficulties relocating if the other state don't respect their education.
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So I know you already know how life works and don't need to question your own opinions anymore but....
How exactly is Jesus not a swell guy? I will absolutely grant you that his fanbase doesn't live up to his example but you sound like you disagree with the man in principle and that seems pretty weird considering his message was "Love the creator, the people around you and yourself".
Is it the "Don't take yourself too seriously" you're struggling with? Or rather the expectation to uphold some standards in con
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Learing about dead people from 2,000 years ago shouldn't be anything more than a module in an religious ed. class.
Re:And then... (Score:5, Insightful)
his message was "Love the creator, the people around you and yourself".
So you're delusional and firmly believe indoctrinating future generations of kids with your personal delusion is a good thing... *and* you're asserting some sort of distorted moral superiority in this....
That's just next level messed up.
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We can start with his violent behavior outside the Temple where the money changers were lawfully exercising their free right of commerce. Then we can talk about how he scapegoated the Pharisees, pouring down streams of bile on traditional observant Jews, and furthering a strain of political histrionics that had been splitting Jewish society apart since the Seleucid period, apparently to show off his reformist credentials to his followers. The "Prince of Peace" was just another agitating religious asshole.
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I remember the money changers being inside the temple, they were blocking the court where converts were supposed to worship.
Plus, they were overcharging for their services and giving kickbacks to the priests, IE corruption.
On the whole Jesus was very liberal though when you look at his average advise and actions.
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First, it's promoting magic (virgin birth, bad accounting of fishes and loaves, walking on water, good zombies and personalized rapture).
Second, it's the "Fox News" effect: What Jesus said, is in the New Testament, and then 'corrected' by all the rules the apostles made (women wear bonnets, no blood transfusions, spread the word of God) after his death, the mythology created by the Catholic Church (holy trinity, immaculate conception, etc) and its anti-intellectual rules (which the Church, itself ran afo
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There are already reports of colleges and unis falling over for the Maggots:
https://www.politico.com/news/... [politico.com]
Re: And then... (Score:3)
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"Make America Stupid Again"
Seems like a fairly transparent plan. You can't work out the shit these fundamentalist throwbacks are pulling if you can't understand it. The emphasis is firmly on the 'mentalist' there
Returning education to the states is a lie (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Returning education to the states is a lie (Score:5, Informative)
In creating the Department of Education, Congress specified that: No provision of a program administered by the Secretary or by any other officer of the Department shall be construed to authorize the Secretary or any such officer to exercise any direction, supervision, or control over the curriculum, program of instruction, administration, or personnel of any educational institution, school, or school system, over any accrediting agency or association, or over the selection or content of library resources, textbooks, or other instructional materials by any educational institution or school system, except to the extent authorized by law. (Section 103[b], Public Law 96-88)
Thus, the Department does not:
establish schools and colleges;
develop curricula;
set requirements for enrollment and graduation;
determine state education standards; or
develop or implement testing to measure whether states are meeting their education standards.
These are responsibilities handled by the various states and districts as well as by public and private organizations of all kinds, not by the U.S. Department of Education.
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> There's no reason why it needs to exist as its own government department.
well that's quite a statement. I guess you'll have to go into denial very quickly now if it turns out that actually tariffs don't fix the economy or something.
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"a mix of DOJ, DHHS, and Treasury would make the most sense"
Sounds stupid, why not consolidate then in the Dept. of Ed. and stop the duplication that sprinkling them around will cause? Or do you really want another right wing-nut wank-fest by slowly cutting those programs in the various depts. where picking them off one-by-one will be easier?
I'm sure the states will handle things just fine (Score:3)
Also, I'm sure Brown v. Board of Education [wikipedia.org] was just Fake News.
Project 2025 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: Project 2025 (Score:2)
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Was not a secret. This is what people voted (or did not bother to vote for).
This is what people deliberately voted for or stayed at home and didn't bother to vote against. Now they are stuck with it and both are unhappy. The latter because this and a whole bunch of other stuff is happening and the former because they thought Trump would only be doing these things to liberals and that they themselves, having voted for Trump, would of course be exempt.
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Came for the TDS (Score:2, Insightful)
Was not disappointed, lol
The world will not end if federal bureaucrats stop controlling local K12 education. The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.
Honestly, if you fear the chief executive this much, then why would you want federal executive departments to have that much control over your schools?
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Honestly, if you fear the chief executive this much, then why would you want federal executive departments to have that much control over your schools?
How else would they push The Message on unwilling parents and innocent children?
Re:Came for the TDS (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think anyone is arguing that eliminating the department of education is bad because Trump is doing it, they're saying it's bad because it'll have a negative effect on education (especially in red states). The ED doesn't have a ton of control over schools anyways, it mostly manages and distributes funds and runs special programs.
The most TDS I've seen is MAGAs that believe Trump can do no wrong and anything he does is brilliant without any basis on reality.
Re: Came for the TDS (Score:3)
Compare RIFs at the Dept of Ed to those at IBM (Score:5, Funny)
IBM, who is no one's idea of an efficiently-run corporation, nevertheless routinely reduces staff and restructures itself in response to demand for its services and products. On the same day that Trump began the process to restructure the Department of Education's units, IBM did the same at its Classic Cloud unit. The size of the RIFs appears to be roughly similar: 1,300 from the Department, and "thousands" from IBM. Let us compare the reactions to both events using only slightly exaggerated language:
The RIF at IBM is business as usual.
The RIF at the Department is the end of civilization as we know it; the abandonment of all hope for the poor, uneducated masses; a useless gesture that panders to Trump's voting bloc; an attempt to rewrite history; and puts Jesus into the classroom curriculum.
Re: Compare RIFs at the Dept of Ed to those at IBM (Score:2)
Thinking about a government like it is a company is a big part of the problem here. People don't need IBM in their lives to survive.
To the states? (Score:2)
You mean a state can teach its kids the Puritans were the first people to ban Christmas? That the European invaders raped, murdered, and destroyed their way through the indigenous people? That the Civil War was about slavery? That U.S. citizens were put into camps because of their ethnicity?
Cool!
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Instead of 51 departments you only have 50. Seriously?
In the bigger states it might make sense but half of them have less than 5 million people. Are you telling me each of those states has qualified educators with the experience and expertise to run a school system?
Forcing programs onto the states just reinforces petty fiefdoms and solving the same problems 50 different ways.
Re: Let's see... (Score:2)
Re: Status quo (Score:2)
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I'll bite. I have several children. They all attended the same public school system in the same town for their entire K-12 education. Of those, three chose to apply themselves and graduated with an IB diploma.Two chose to not work as hard. One was just more of a people person, and still is. Another did great on tests, and could discuss any topic the teacher asked about related to the reading, but didn't feel homework was worth it. He'll give you a rational and fact based opinion on most any current subject
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That's the problem. President Musk is NOT eliminating waste, fraud and abuse. He's eliminating things average people rely on and agencies that would catch tax-sucking Musk companies that actually are committing waste, fraud and abuse.
Please try to keep up.
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Why is it good when Obama does it, but bad when Trump does it?
Are you seriously unable to tell the difference? Did you even look? Or are you just trying to prop up your boy?
Why are leftist getting so insanely hysterical about eliminating some fraud, waste, and abuse.
Are you seriously equating the specific targeted removal of fraud/waste/abuse with the broad strokes removal of entire departments? Can you not tell the difference?
The DOE has never proved to be useful in any way, and it is very expensive. The country is $36 trillion in debt. We have to start somewhere.
I'm sorry, it's NEVER done ANYTHING useful? You've gone back over the decades of it's existence and confirmed this? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
If the agency was started by executive order, why can't it be eliminated by executive order?
Dumbass, it WASN'T started by an executive order, it was an act of Congress. I'm