US Stock Markets See Worst Day Since Covid Pandemic (theguardian.com) 200
U.S. stock markets suffered their worst day since the Covid pandemic after Donald Trump announced sweeping new tariffs, triggering a global selloff and wiping out $470 billion in value from tech giants Apple and Nvidia. From a report: The tech-heavy Nasdaq fell 6%, while the S&P 500 and the Dow dropped 4.8% and 3.9%, respectively. [...] Meanwhile, the US dollar hit a six-month low, going down at least 2.2% on Thursday morning compared with other major currencies and oil prices sank on fears of a global slowdown. Though the US stock market has been used to tumultuous mornings over the last few weeks, US stock futures -- an indication of the market's likely direction -- had plummeted after the announcement. Hours later, Japan's Nikkei index slumped to an eight-month low and was followed by falls in stock markets in London and across Europe.
Multiple major American business groups have spoken out against the tariffs, including the Business Roundtable, a consortium of leaders of major US companies including JP Morgan, Apple and IBM, which called on the White House to "swiftly reach agreements" and remove the tariffs. "Universal tariffs ranging from 10-50% run the risk of causing major harm to American manufacturers, workers, families and exporters," the Business Roundtable said in a statement. "Damage to the US economy will increase the longer the tariffs are in place and may be exacerbated by retaliatory measures."
Multiple major American business groups have spoken out against the tariffs, including the Business Roundtable, a consortium of leaders of major US companies including JP Morgan, Apple and IBM, which called on the White House to "swiftly reach agreements" and remove the tariffs. "Universal tariffs ranging from 10-50% run the risk of causing major harm to American manufacturers, workers, families and exporters," the Business Roundtable said in a statement. "Damage to the US economy will increase the longer the tariffs are in place and may be exacerbated by retaliatory measures."
It's like... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's like they're intentionally trying to inflict maximum harm on the American public.
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not at all conspiracy prone but I can't help but look at your post and think "Yeah, you're right". He's in the middle of handing Russia what it wants in Ukraine while diminishing and casting doubt on NATO and alienating our allies. He's pulling us completely out of the global order and creating such utter economic and governmental chaos we'll leave a nice global power vacuum for quite some time that very likely wont be filled by the good people of the EU. As we speak his cronies in congress are using blatantly crooked accounting to try to push through massive tax cuts for the wealthy we cant afford that will send us further in debt.
This administration is doing absolute wonders in diminishing the US to the favor of Russia and our other adversaries.
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Re:It's like... (Score:5, Informative)
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Noteworthy is only Russia and North Korea did not get tariffs imposed on them. The justification given was simply lame.
According to this Newsweek article [newsweek.com] there are 11 countries whose imports will not receive reciprocal tariffs:
Belarus
Burkina Faso
Canada
Cuba
Mexico
North Korea
Palau
Russia
Seychelles
Somalia
Vatican City
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Noteworthy is only Russia and North Korea did not get tariffs imposed on them. The justification given was simply lame.
According to this Newsweek article [newsweek.com] there are 11 countries whose imports will not receive reciprocal tariffs:
Belarus
Burkina Faso
Canada
Cuba
Mexico
North Korea
Palau
Russia
Seychelles
Somalia
Vatican City
One more to add to the list. The map of the countries shows Greenland in gray, suggesting that the US has already annexed Greenland, thus allowing Greenland to bypass these new tariffs. Trump really is enjoying the power he gets from tariffs, as well as from PowerPoint.
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One more to add to the list. The map of the countries shows Greenland in gray, suggesting that the US has already annexed Greenland, thus allowing Greenland to bypass these new tariffs. Trump really is enjoying the power he gets from tariffs, as well as from PowerPoint.
Yeah lol. Remember he thought his sharpie could command the course of hurricanes. [wikipedia.org]
I'm not sure what "power" Trump thinks he derives from tariffs. I wonder if he just likes to break things and see the consequences.
I'd rather these guys not play with matches like this. They should have learned from the past (Smoot-Hawley, cough cough.) Or even the recent past. [investopedia.com]
Re: It's like... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, it's totally TDS and not you blindly defending stupid.
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Insightful)
First, no country is getting "reciprocal" tariffs. The announced tariffs have nothing to do with reciprocity. Trump made a napkin calculation taking the commercial deficit as a ratio of that country's exports to the USA (giving a number up to 100%) And then divided by 2 (giving a number up to 50%). He also set a minimum tariff of 10%, on countries where the calculation gave 10% or less (or even negative when the USA has a trade surplus with that country).
Israel tried to avoid reciprocal tariffs by removing all tariffs on the USA. It was still slapped with 17% tariffs by Trump.
Second, Canada and Mexico are affected by some tariffs as well, including cars (25%), energy (10%), aluminum and steel (25%). Cuba has much worse than tariffs with the embargo and sanctions.
So the only countries with no new tariffs appears to be Russia, Belarus, North Korea (Trump's best friends) as well as the other countries you named with very little trade with the USA anyways.
It's strange that Trump forgot Palau, because he included some remote islands with 0 citizens (Heard and McDonald islands).
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Thanks for all of this.
Just FYI, I was quoting from Newsweek. It's not my own opinion. "Reciprocal tariffs" is the Trump administration's term for them, and yes, it's doublespeak to imply that they're responding to some perceived offense from all of the other countries in the world.
My understanding is that just about every country in the world got at least a "baseline" tariff of 10% (aside from possible reciprocal tariffs) but I could not confirm this. The Newsweek piece had the most comprehensive list of c
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It's even worse than that. Someone asked ChatGPT [latintimes.com] "What would be an easy way to calculate the tariffs that should be imposed on other countries so that the US is on even-playing fields when it comes to trade deficit? Set minimum at 10%."
Guess what? It spits out exactly the formula you state, and the fucking list these clowns are enacting into law, including setting tariffs on uninhabited islands that are territories of Australia [theguardian.com], which are different from the tariffs set on Australia.
Won't someone think of
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>I just love how people imply that a US President should make mortal enemies.
He's making mortal enemies of Mexico, Canada, and Greenland, instead, FFS. Lol, are you delusional.
Yes, Russia, Belarus, and North Korea are the US's mortal enemies. Putin would like nothing more than to wipe the US of the map, same with NK.
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Well I am sure if you ask 10 random USAians if "interstate highways" in Hawaii cross state boundary, most of them would say no. They are still part of the US "interstate" highway system, it doesn't mean every single highway part of that system has to cross state lines.
However I think that a lot of people believe Trump announced reciprocal tariffs while they aren't. So yes it is important to explain this.
Trump himself doesn't seem to understand that. Just because the USA has a trade deficit with Lesotho (bec
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Does the US buy anything from NK or Russia? I suspect nothing of consequence. How do you place tariffs on goods/services that you don't buy?
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Interesting)
Like this:
"Trump imposes tariffs on uninhabited islands near Antarctica"
https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]
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It's reciprocation for being uninhabited. Trump wants them to have more beautiful babies there.
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Funny)
Such a trivial necessity is not an impedance for someone with the great intellect of Trump. He put tariffs on the Heard and McDonald Islands [thelondoneconomic.com] which are only inhabited by penguins. It might be that he was advised by Microsoft.
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The only sense I can make of that (and other head-scratcher locations) is that it discourages businesses from relocating to there, or from making them pass-through locations for goods on their way to the USA. Someone who knows more about trade may want to comment.
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>history won’t ever forget the leadershit under Dumb and Dumber for the last four years.
Yeah, I know. 16+ million jobs. Defeating COVID. Bringing inflation down from 9+% to under 3%, all the bills passed, stock market at record highs
How horrorible.
As opposed to the fascist regime now in power.
Lol.
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Yes, we still buy a lot of stuff from Russia. Is $3.5B in 2024 enough for you to put tariffs on?
There are a lot of sanctions we could still impose that would be QUITE of consequence, as well.
Trump is Putin's puppet, that's the only real reason.
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Why is North Korea notable? It's already pretty illegal to trade anything between them and the US; the US can also lock anyone out of its financial system who trades with North Korea, even if they're not a US person or entity. The US could set tariffs on North Korea to 0% or 1000% and there would be no real difference because there's no trade in the first place.
Since its 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Russia has become [axios.com] the world's most sanctioned country -- by a long shot, with the US alone responsible dor alm
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Is there any importing from NK happening?
This isn't rhetorical, I'm just assuming they didn't get any new tariffs because they're completely black listed. I'm not sure about Russia, but I assume they're already pretty heavily blocked.
This isn't defense of Trump, just that it seems redundant to pretend trade with them isn't (currently) pretty much blocked.
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I think the answer to your question is “this has been slapped together by a bunch of incompetent malicious twits”. Of *course* it’s inconsistent and stupid. We shouldn’t look for coherence in this, any more than we should look for coherence when we ask a toddler to tell us about their imaginary world. It’s all a little flight of fantasy, except that the toddlers have some actual power this time.
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Funny)
Is there any importing from NK happening?
Ideology, apparently.
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It is notable because Russia, NK are both run by dictators that trump likes and wants to be like, so he gave them special treatment.
Slapping tariffs on a country that already has sanctions put upon them is about as pointless as it gets.
Your attitude is notable as someone who is more championing for the US President to make mortal enemies with these countries so that YOUR family members can go fight and die for your political bias. Thank you for confirming why TDS should be classified as a mental disorder.
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The USA has a president that not only does not understand how international trade works but then blatantly supports Russia that started an unprovoked war killing thousands of innocent people. trump should be mortal enemies wit
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Noteworthy is only Russia and North Korea did not get tariffs imposed on them. The justification given was simply lame.
The US sanctions on Russia have tanked trade with Russia already. Imports from Russia have been in steady decline for years. From what I've seen the US imported $3.5 billion worth of goods from Russia last year. That's a tenth of what it was in 2021. Russian imports were mainly fertilizer, uranium for power plants and metals. The US exported $525 million to Russia in 2024. Trump also threatened an additional 50% tariff on any country who purchased Russian Oil.
The US has a complete trade embargo against Nor
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"From what I've seen the US imported $3.5 billion worth of goods from Russia last year."
That still places Russia about 25th in trade imbalance with the US.
"Already under sanctions" is not a criterion under either the stated metric nor the actual metric for computing the tariffs. So yes, Russia is getting leniency.
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"I''m not defending the tariffs, but to try to make is sound like Russia and North Korea are getting some kind of leniency is disingenuous."
No, it is NOT disingenuous.
They ARE getting some kind of leniency, at least Russia is.
If they aren't, answer this - why didn't they get hit with AT LEAST the default 10% rate? That would have netted the US an extra $350M/year!
Anything else IS leniency, don't you agree now?
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He told us that!
Trump is a Russian asset. Or as good as.
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Let's see what countries escaped the tariff wrath of orange jesus.
Russia
Belarus
Concerning. Especially for the penguins and seals inhabiting McDonald island. https://www.wired.com/story/tr... [wired.com]
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Re: It's like... (Score:3)
He knows which industries are going to have the steepest drops so he and his buddies can short sell stock for those companies, then they can buy cheap stock and push the tariffs back so the stock recovers. There's nobody left to call them on it.
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IF he were a Russian agent
Trump is not an agent. Agents are known to be smart, versatile, and speak multiple languages.
He could be an asset though. Being much more naive and easily influenced, assets are easily manipulated by foreign governments.
He is effectively a remotely controlled robot, and Moscow holds the remote control.
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What flavor was the kool aid?
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Insightful)
Tonight were gonna party like it's 1929!
Re:It's like... (Score:4, Interesting)
It looks like this is an example of "don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence,"
It doesn't make anything better... if anything, it makes it way way worse.
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They are obviously both malicious and incompetent, but I think nonetheless this isn’t an accurate reading. Trump sees US trade deficits in goods as the outcome of tariffs and non-tariff barriers erected by trading partners. He’s an idiot, because other things also cause trade deficits, like countries being too poor to buy anything of consequence from the US, but that’s why his team of idiots used ChatGPT to write their tariff policy based on goods trade deficits. There’s a logic, an
Destroy the middle class (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a big tent; the Heritage folks want a theocracy; Donnie wants fawning serfs and all the money; the fascists want to hurt people and feel powerful.
They can all agree that free thought and speech enjoyed by a polity of people with enough wealth to feel agency is a threat to their goals, so they're destroying anything that enables those things.
They've already destroyed most medical research in the US, along with a huge amount of other research. From WWII until last year, we got the world's best and brightest coming to our schools, many of whom stayed and started companies or taught. That's over. You won't feel that fast, but that will cause a slow competitive bleed that really matters (compare Germany's GDP to the US from 1950 on).
They're destroying public education at the same time they're changing child labor laws. I don't think this requires any explanation.
They're destroying trade - Look at what the Smoot-Hawley Act did in 1930. The US didn't recover from that until the government took over most of the economy during WWII.
The claim is we'll go back to factory work. Please chime in if you'd rather sew T shirts for well under minimum wage for 10 hour days, 6 days a week instead of whatever you do now. When calculating your budget, don't forget to factor in caring for yourself after you can't work anymore due to RSI. (Worker's comp? Hah, I remember when that was a thing, too!)
The factory bullshit is social engineering masquerading as economic planning.
Personally, I'm scoping for a house in a quiet little country with little interaction with the coming shitshow. You may know you are at war with the Trump Regime, but it is waging war on you.
Re:It's like... (Score:4, Informative)
How's your 401k doing this week? Hope you're not dependent on social security either. https://www.wired.com/story/do... [wired.com]
Re:It's like... (Score:5, Insightful)
OOh yeah.
That "weekend at Bernies" adminstration that:
had job growth of over 16M+ jobs
got us out of covid without a recession
lowered inflation from 9%+ to under 3%
got a bunch of bills signed like an infrastructure act that Trump was totally unable to pass
record high stock market
etc.
yeah, I'll take that weekend anytime compared the the fascist timeline this regime has put us on.
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I don't disagree that the stock market has been overvalued, many with extremely high price/earnings ratios like 592 for BP, 191 for Lyft, and 131 for Tesla. But the DOW has "only" gone up 50% since the beginning of the pandemic. The (almost) doubling was since the bottom of the crash caused by the pandemic.
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National sales tax (Score:5, Insightful)
So somebody's going to have to pay those taxes and it's not going to be the rich because that's the whole point of electing Trump.
So it's going to be you and me. We are going to pay for it. Come hell or high water and there's nothing we can do.
I've yet to meet a single Trump voter that really admitted that they were wrong and really took the time to understand why they were wrong. So in 4 years we're going to be right back here, probably electing Trump to a third term so the supreme Court can rubber stamp it for God only knows what reason.
Meanwhile millions of Americans couldn't vote last year thanks to various nasty little suppression techniques and the same tactics will be used in the midterms.
I think the problem is the enormity of the situation is too large for most people to comprehend. We are heading into at best a deep deep deep recession. We may be going into another Great depression and looking at food shortages. And that's just so far beyond what we can comprehend that I don't think we can handle it and face it head on. It's looking like we're going to put our heads in the sand again.
Re: National sales tax (Score:2)
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The problem is you still have to file taxes and pay taxes as long as you are a US citizen regardless of where you live on the planet. Canada's income taxes and value added taxes are higher and even though you might get a foreign income tax credit from the US, you'd probably still pay more effective taxes as after a certain amount of time, most countries will tax your worldwide income.
Of course, you could renounce your US citizenship, but then you have to pay for the privilege of doing so, and then you might
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When might I consider doing this?
1. If I lost my Social Security Benefits, Medicare, and retirement nest egg due to them going insolvent and could no longer afford to live in the United States.
2. If a totalitarian regime came to power.
I don't mean to alarm you, but you may want to check the news.
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Re: National sales tax (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is you still have to file taxes and pay taxes as long as you are a US citizen regardless of where you live on the planet.
You have to file income taxes if you are a US citizen. Whether you have to pay taxes depends on your situation. Generally if income earned overseas is tax exempt. Any income earned domestically is taxed. You have to file for a foreign income exemption.
If you remain a US citizen and live abroad, you'd have to file taxes in 2 countries for the rest of your life as long as you remain outside of the United States.
For some countries, filing taxes is more about checking you are paying the right amount. Basically "filing" is looking over your already filled out tax statement the government sends you and making sure it is correct. The US sounds insane compared to this system.
I would if I could (Score:2)
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How? (Score:3)
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It used to be that the United States funded its government on Tariffs alone prior to the ratification of the 16th amendment to the US constitution. That would not work today, but there has been some mention that "The Regime" would love to go back to this funding method and eliminate income taxes completely.
Even if you eliminated Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid, and eliminated 90 percent of federal jobs, tariffs would raise the price of goods so much that most middle class people would be living in p
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As far a I can tell he is trying to crash the global market, create a Great Depression, enact Martial law, then do what ever he wants. This is how you get to a World War 3.
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Exactly! Even if you believe the misguided and false premise that tariffs help the domestic economy, if this was about bringing industry back to the US, the tariffs would have been implemented slowly and over time .. like say 1% tariff increase every month. This would give US businesses time to seek alternative supply chains and build a US manufacturing base. This sudden taxation will cause businesses to collapse and hold onto their capital without building new capacity. It will still be cheaper to buy from
Re: National sales tax (Score:3)
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Yeah, 90s culture wasn't about whining at all. Nirvana and Green Day were loved by hardly anyone.
Either that or maybe you're remembering things completely wrong?
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Nominated a woman.
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They were lied to. Blame women and minorities for the young white men not having the opportunities their parents did. Sell them a vision of the 1950s when white men were dominant and wives were obedient.
Now they are no longer needed, it's time for some massive tax rises to pay for the billionaire tax breaks that they unwittingly voted for.
Question (Score:3)
Interesting to know if any of Trump's inner circle have been shorting stocks... Hmm...
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Can't hit the "short" button if you've got both hands on the rug.
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Exactly! If this was about bringing industry back to the US, the tariffs would have been implemented slowly and over time .. like say 1% tariff increase every month. This would give US businesses time to seek alternative supply chains and build a US manufacturing base. This sudden taxation will cause businesses to collapse and hold onto their capital without building new capacity. It will still be cheaper to buy from China than the US. I recall 25 years ago, I knew a person in North Carolina that was a mana
Golden Age (Score:4)
We're in a golden age, remember that. At the inauguration, and a few times after that, Trump declared that we're now in a golden age. This was seconded multiple times by our President, Elon Musk. Remind yourself of that whenever you're feeling blue, remember this is the golden age. For billionaires.
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Golden ^H^H^H^H^H uilded age
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It'll be the Golden Shower Age once Russia releases the pee-pee tape.
Trump: Flagwaving, but Chaotic and Pro-Russian (Score:2)
Viral stupidity (Score:3)
Remember folks (Score:5, Insightful)
You voted for this.
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You voted for this.
The ones that did have been very quiet about that.
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Have they?
I see a lot of "trump just gave you back $x billions" (whatever the trade deficit is). And "finally we'll bring back the jobs with this and no foreigners" and what not.
There is jubilance about the protectionism protecting America from the average Trump voter from what I can see.
Perhaps some of the Republican because upper middle class voters feel regret, but that's a small percentage. There aren't that many upper middle class people by definition.
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I hope that the folks still going on about how DOGE is going to pay them a stimulus are doing so ironically.
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Nearly 70% of voters didn't vote against it.
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Boy did you swallow the right-wing echo chamber nonsense wholesale.
Or you just hate women... either/or.
They used ChatGPT (Score:5, Interesting)
ChatGPT is running the country now. https://www.theverge.com/news/... [theverge.com]
Tariffs are now applied to uninhabited islands. https://www.wired.com/story/tr... [wired.com]
But hey aren't we owning those libs so hard!
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I hope they slapped a big tariff on goatse.cx.
"Liberation Day" (Score:5, Insightful)
MAGA is a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
diseased mind of MAGA (Score:3)
This time there isn't any pesky Dr. Fauci telling them not to eat horse paste. It be Ronny Jackson will tell them to do whatever God tells them, and RFK Jr. will recommend people take a slightly less than lethal dose of vitamin A.
He's burning down the country (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump is consumed by petty grievances and has no interest in governing the nation. He just wants retribution for any perceived slights.
Re:He's burning down the country (Score:4, Interesting)
The US possesses the world's largest economy by quite a fair margin - access to sell goods there is what makes or breaks a lot of other country's economies. It is the gold standard of customers to have. Now, most countries put tariffs on trade in the reverse direction (imports from US) in order to protect their fledgling industries from the economic and financial machine that is the United States, not because they're looking to rip the US off.
That said, it is undeniable that since the 70s, nearly every major producer/manufacturer/business has taken big chunks of their business outside of US borders, and it also seems undeniable this was done for two main reasons: environmental law and minimum wage laws which came into effect in the US (and both laws I agree with). Can't have your clothing company paying children pennies per hour and dumping toxic sludge into a river in the US anymore and maintain those profit margins! Who can deny this has not been a MAJOR trend? The problem is that countries like Canada who simply find the optimal customer for their natural resources get screwed as well, but there are plenty of people who DESERVE to get screwed by these tariffs. Go ahead and tell me the real reason all the stuff Americans buy is from Vietnam or China is something other than these companies want to fuck the environment there and pay slave wages. I'll wait.
So what I'm worried about is that these hordes of companies are going to start shifting production back into the US, on whatever scale, and this is only going to widen the chasm between the US and everyone else economically. If the shift is large enough, then even with the price increases from costly local production, and even with automation, there will be enough more well-paying jobs in the US they will win (remember the Henry Ford story?). Trump could have done this for shitty reasons, but I still see if as over aggressively leveraging the US's already huge lead in the world economy,
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Nobody will be shifting anything back to the US. Who in their right mind would make the huge investment to establish manufacturing in the US when at the next presidential election, or maybe even sooner, all of this tariff nonsense could be reversed? The one and only consequence of this economic war will be higher prices for goods. It's a federal tax that will borne by everybody.
We're seeing poor economic policies being put in place to appease the fragile ego of a child president.
Trump is an idiot (Score:2)
A vile, petty, petulant, orange creep.
I hope he dies soon.
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Then Vance will take over, and republicans will scramble to find Trump 2.0.
Do try not to panic (Score:2, Troll)
The Media treats the stock market graph the same way they treat the global temperature graph.
They'll cherry pick a very narrow range of data and say " Look ! Look ! We're Doomed ! The graph data proves it ! "
Whereas, if you open the range up a bit, you might note things aren't quite as bad as the VERY manipulative Media tries to make it out to be.
( Well, unless you're a day trader vs a long term one. Then you might actually be somewhat f*cked )
For example, if we only look at the data from today, the DJ
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Uh, yeah, stock markets rise over the long term. At least, in stable countries.
They also react to events policy announcements, which is why that 4% drop is important. You can also look longer term: the DOW is down 10% since Trump started talking seriously about tariffs and invading allies, and 5% since he was inaugurated.
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I love the video of the Dow falling in real time as the announcements are made.
Linux in Danger (Score:2)
I see that the Heard and McDonald's islands have had tariffs imposed upon them.
The only inhabitants of these islands are penguins. This is obviously an attempt to suppress the use of Linux (whose mascot is a penguin) by the broligarchy in general, and Musk in particular...
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Shanghai obviously. Who would trade on the Beijing one. It's 100x smaller than Shanghai.
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LOL, the cultists are so cute... even when they're lined up at the soup kitchen, they'll lick their saviour's boots...
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It's interesting how the MAGA types came out of the woodwork after the election but almost none of them are posting anymore, and the ones that are are proudly hitting that AC button.
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Classic abuser behavior. “Look what you made me do!”
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"actually they're just mocking us when they ask us what woke means, because it's obvious... it's... definitely not just things I personally dislike. I've spoken to other people about this, and they use actual words to describe what being woke means. It's not just a vague feeling, and suggesting that it is is the reason YOU LIBERALS who are all white and well paid and live in cities, none of which are demographic tags that apply to me... yeah it's the reason you're wrong and immoral and should feel shame.
why