Framework Stops Selling Some of Its Laptops in the US Due To Tariffs (404media.co) 70
Framework -- a company that makes upgradeable and repairable laptops -- will pause sales on several versions of one of its models in America thanks to Trump's tariffs, it said. From a report: "Due to the new tariffs that came into effect on April 5th, we're temporarily pausing US sales on a few base Framework Laptop 13 systems (Ultra 5 125H and Ryzen 5 7640U). For now, these models will be removed from our US site. We will continue to provide updates as we have them," Framework said in a post on X.
A spokesperson for Framework told 404 Media in an email that the company was pausing sales on their six lowest priced units in the U.S. They clarified that those models are still available to customers that are ordering the machines outside of America.
A spokesperson for Framework told 404 Media in an email that the company was pausing sales on their six lowest priced units in the U.S. They clarified that those models are still available to customers that are ordering the machines outside of America.
So.... (Score:2)
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I do not think you understood correctly.
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Now we know you are a blowhard.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I would expect you rather to applaud Framework's move to stop importing certain laptops. Isn't that the goal of the tariffs, to influence American companies to make goods here?
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Yes, good on them. Stop selling Americans cheap goods made in places that circumvent our notions of fairness like minimum wages and environmental protections.
America the land of fair minimum wages and environmental protections? You are being sarcastic, right?
Compared to the sweatshops of Asia, yes (Score:2)
So no, not sarcastic; rather your ignorance is showing.
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Shame that Trump didn't think to develop the domestic supply chains and manufacturing first. It's not like they can just switch to American made AMD CPUs, or American made flash, or American made RAM, because America doesn't make those things.
If the plan actually worked it would take years for those things to come to the US. How long can Americans afford to wait?
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Re: So.... (Score:2)
Re: So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well if the laptops would be too expensive to sell with the tariff tacked on, why bother importing them in the first place? You expect them to simply eat the tariff and sell their laptop at the same price they do now? I am genuinely curious.
Further, theoretically the point of the tariffs are to push Americans towards American-made goods. So stopping the sale of imported Framework laptops would seem to be something that the folks who have posted here so far should applaud.
But it's obvious from the posts on this story so far that Americans still don't understand that the American consumer pays the tariffs.
Re: So.... (Score:3)
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Yes that's one way thing they could have done. But I suspect in the end the result is the same. Demand will be gone for these low-end, low-margin laptops at a 20% price hike. Makes business sense to not even bother with them.
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A company doesn't make decisions on the macroeconomic effects. They look at the cost of goods and the price that they can sell their product at (and quantities at a given price point) and decide whether to offer it or not.
These tariffs are huge. 10-50% extra cost (depending on where it is sourced) is going to change a lot of company's calculations. Lots of times, they will just decide not to sell a product.
Re: So.... (Score:2)
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You don't know that they don't need to take that risk. I know nothing about Framework and the specifics of their business, so this will be generic (and in many ways it is much better that it be generic - these are things every single importer will be facing and will be making their own calculations).
A smaller company that ships smaller volumes is going to have a larger fraction of the sales price in general overhead (i.e. the opposite of economies of scale - not everybody can be the biggest). One way to red
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I would expect them to sell the laptop at the current price plus the tariff and see if people still buy them. Since all other laptops which I assume are imported will also go up in price by the same amount (well maybe not the same amount trumps tariff are just random). Not just give up trying to sell them.
Re: So.... (Score:2)
They pay the tariff when they import the goods, not when the customer buys them. Unless they ship to the customer from the source, which would cost more and take longer
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They pay the tariff when they import the goods, not when the customer buys them. Unless they ship to the customer from the source, which would cost more and take longer
They shipped my order from source.
I wasn't in the USA though, so Framework may have a different process there.
Re: So.... (Score:2)
You expect them to simply eat the tariff and sell their laptop at the same price they do now? I am genuinely curious.
It's not an unreasonable position - presumably all their products originate from overseas, but they only are 'suspending sales' of certain lower-priced models, and not mentioning raising prices on the more expensive models, presumably they are either 'eating' the tariffs on the more expensive offerings, or they are waiting to see how tariffs play out/wind up and then raise prices.
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Cheaper items have smaller margins.
Eating a cost increase is easy on a more expensive thing than a cheaper thing. That's why in times of cost pressure, companies get rid of their cheaper SKUs.
So yes, it's an unreasonable position in this context.
Now if they had decided to stop selling everything, then I'd say that was an ideological position. This is just normal business behavior.
As costs go up, cheaper stuff becomes harder to make, because people don't like s
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
They could raise the prices on their lower margin machines, but pricing of SKUs is far more complicated than that. Simply shifting all the price points upwards completely alters the revenue model.
Where Framework is located doesn't really matter- what matters is that they need to sell things made outside of the US, in the US.
So in short, no, you didn't understand correctly.
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They arent trying to understand, they are paid trolls attacking anything negative to the US right now - reactions to Trumps tariffs are high on Russia agenda right now as a follow up to the tariffs themselves, because getting people het up about American companies not toeing the line increases confrontation.
See how quickly several other people chimed in with supporting comments talking negatively about the company? Its a coordinated effort.
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They could raise the prices on their lower margin machines, but pricing of SKUs is far more complicated than that. Simply shifting all the price points upwards completely alters the revenue model.
In what way? I don't doubt you, I'm just genuinely curious how shifting prices does that. Are you saying their different models have parts sourced from different places, so costs have not gone up uniformly across their product-line?
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
As you raise prices, the demand will fall depending on the intended consumer.
At the high end, you can afford to pump these pretty hard, because those fuckers will pay anything.
At the mid range, you can pump a little, but less, because there is a threshold where these people will look for something else.
At the low end, people are looking for the cheapest thing they can find. Touch that price, and people will flock away from you.
This is why the low margin devices were dropped- because they didn't perceive people being willing to pay the tariff-adjusted price for them, and ending up with extra inventory that you have to sell at a loss is how small businesses die.
Are you saying their different models have parts sourced from different places, so costs have not gone up uniformly across their product-line?
Nope. I mean that might be true- but the base effect isn't because of that. It's simply because people react to prices- demand isn't price invariant.
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I think you are referring to "price elasticity" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I'm no econ major, so I wasn't familiar with the correct terminology, but I've been working high enough up in a business for long enough to have understood the basics of the effect.
I guess if I were to rephrase using what I've learned from the curriculum you gave me, then price elasticity of demand is relatively elastic for the low-margin low-end SKUs, but less elastic the closer you get to the halo SKUs.
Thanks for the info.
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Did anyone think tariffs lead to cheaper goods? lol
I mean sure, hypothetically, in a long enough time scale, domestic production can lead back to normally priced goods with the added benefit of economic isolation from foreign factors... but if you think someone implemented tariffs for the goal of making things cheaper, you're nuts.
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Not really, because the SKU MSR doesn't need to change, and would be far better not to.
Moving it to a different line-item on the invoice isn't going to change the elasticity of the demand.
Shipping has almost always cost more the further the distance. Shipping is and always has been a differing amount based on where you want it delivered. Import taxes and/or local sales taxes are added on under the same S&H section.
lol- and when shipping costs 50% the total value of the device, people tend to let it influence their purchasing decisions. This isn't a $29.99 S&H charge.
This is the very information needed to determine any tariffs in place and can trivially be added in with the rest of shipping, where there are already allocations to do that.
And in this weird hypothetical universe of yours where moving line items changes how people perceive price... ok?
I'm not saying this will have no effect on sales, it certainly will, but it is highly unlikely this alone would put units sold down to zero. Terminating a line of income is exactly that, even a sale of one unit would still generate income, so they are choosing to stop selling to the US.
This is flatly untrue. The nature of manufacturing is that you cannot manufacture individual devices.
They must balance the cost of a produ
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No they are simply doing what Trump wants them to do. They are no longer importing certain laptops because the tariff would make them too expensive to sell. Isn't that the goal of the tariffs, to get Framework to stop importing foreign-made laptops and start making them here at home?
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No they are simply doing what Trump wants them to do. They are no longer importing certain laptops because the tariff would make them too expensive to sell. Isn't that the goal of the tariffs, to get Framework to stop importing foreign-made laptops and start making them here at home?
What????? Not being able to sell these models profitably doesn’t equate to “and we can make them here.” How would they start making them here? Stop importing foreign components? Spin up a factory? Hire already trained Americans who know how to do this work? No. They just have to stop selling lower margin devices, and are hurt, officially, by the tariffs. This persistent belief that we can just magically make shit here, and make it affordably.
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It doesn't? Somebody tell trump quick before he ruins everything.
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Guilty as charged
Re: So.... (Score:2)
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Either way, you lose, prices go up and the economy will go down.
Re:So.... (Score:4, Informative)
For a company like Framework the answer is simply too hard to make them here at any real scale, we don't have the infrastructure or skill to do mass consumer electronic production.
An interesting thread here from an industrial engineer theory crafting what Nintendo would have to do to produce the Switch 2 in the USA today via contract (assuming they don't have the time to build a new factory as I assume Framework also does not have that capacity or money for).
Okay lets game this out: You are a Nintendo employee given unlimited funds and authority to move Switch 2 production to the US. No new factories, that's going to take way too long, you need to work with existing American Contract Manufacturing capacity. How fast can you do it? [bsky.app]
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For a company like Framework the answer is simply too hard to make them here at any real scale, we don't have the infrastructure or skill to do mass consumer electronic production.
That's just not true. We don't have the economics for it.
We manufacture a lot of electronics- but only the really fucking expensive kinds.
An interesting thread here from an industrial engineer theory crafting what Nintendo would have to do to produce the Switch 2 in the USA today via contract (assuming they don't have the time to build a new factory as I assume Framework also does not have that capacity or money for).
Read it again. They don't cite a lack of skill, they cite a lack of capacity- and that's very true.
When you're only focusing on the high end, the demand is much lower.
The US could spin up capacity in a heartbeat- if someone wanted to pay for it. And Americans do not.
Like their cited example of screens- yes, those would have to be imported.
You know why? Because the 3
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Read it again. They don't cite a lack of skill, they cite a lack of capacity- and that's very true.
The two go hand in hand. It's a specialised skill to quickly spin up and pivot around production lines to mass produce low quality goods. The USA is not geared up for this with many production lines being for a singular purpose. Skill is a thing, the kinds of factories being discussed employ teams of engineers which we don't have because that work doesn't exist here.
Skill and capacity go hand in hand. You create capacity in the type of field that doesn't exist in a country you need to also train people.
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The two go hand in hand.
No.
It's a specialised skill to quickly spin up and pivot around production lines to mass produce low quality goods.
Many US factories pivot (re-tool) all over the place, and all the time. It's not a difficult skill. It's part of running a factory. When it comes to factories, the US is top of the world in terms of output per capita. Don't mistake the offloading of microscopic-margin shit for a lack of manufacturing skill.
The USA is not geared up for this with many production lines being for a singular purpose.
The manufacturing capacity of the United States, second in the world in raw output, first in per-capita output, is not some monolithic stone that just produces a fixed set of things. It simply aims for
Re: So.... (Score:1)
You're not understanding supply chain, manufacturing or pretty much anything a business has to deal with. American company or not most of their components still come from overseas. Actually a quick seach show they are assembled in Taiwan as well. Since you have no knowledge about business I'll explain; the most likely reason for discontinuing some models while still providing others comes down to economics as most business decisions are.
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So, if I'm understanding correctly, they stopped selling out of vengeance? They're an American company located in San Fransisco.
They didn't stop selling. They stopped selling several versions of one of its models.
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So good on you Trump! You've killed yet another American business!
Their post on X. [x.com]
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Those virtues are not in demand these day. Outsourcing is a direct result of the american consumer demanding cheaper and cheaper goods, and being okay with lower and lower quality (just buy three). American and Chinese companies oblige, although I agree American corporate greed is strong. In short, China has learned from the best and they only produce what we ask them to. There's no real demand for high-quality chinese goods, although people always talk like there is and then balk at the higher price.
Am
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The UAE also got those bulbs because the King (As in literal king) effectively decreed the bulbs be efficient and contracted Philips to develop them in exchange for an exclusive contract.
So we could have even more efficient bulbs if we wanted to regulate as such but considering there are people still mad about losing incandescents so much that the President has spoken of bringing them back I don't expect that very soon.
Re:It Will be Over Soon (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah there is a way you do that, multilaterial and multinational trade agreements. That's what NAFTA was, that's what the former Trump crown jewel of master negotiation the USMCA was, that's what the TPP was set to be before it got shitcanned. Nations negotiate trade terms that everyone can agree to to prevent escalations like this from happening since it just makes everyone worse off.
Are these agreements perfect and nobody is left behind in their wake? Absolutely not but those consequences are our own, I would say the failure to take the amount of wealth these agreements generate and use some of that to take of the people who get the short end is a problem the USA has itself moreso then the other nations but that would require introspection and some actual legislative hard work, things the admin is allergic to.
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lulz, look like you swallowed Trump's BS, hook ,line and sinker.
If you actually can understand the actual formula etc used to calculate the "reciprocal" tariffs: https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/r... [ustr.gov]
You'll see that the actual tariffs the target country don't play a part at all.
They're more based on the trade deficit. So even if a foreign country has ZERO tariffs on the US they would be hit by tariffs if they import a lot less US stuff than they export to the US.
So it's not about "free trade". Nor about "recipro
Bullshit Re:It Will be Over Soon (Score:3)
The tariffs are based on trade deficit, not the taxes in the countries. That's ingrained into free trade, and that's what the Trump administration is fighting. Trump is completely against free trade.
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This time around, it is either free trade of bye bye bye.
In many cases Trump doesn't understand the difference between tariffs and not meeting local standards. The world is not interested in American trash flooding in, so they'll say bye bye bye instead. Just got a great shipment of premium beef from Canada. America is more than welcome to sell their stuff here as well once you stop medicating your cows and drowning your chickens in chemicals used to treat swimming pools kids piss into.
But in any case I wonder what tariffs the poor penguins on Hunter island were
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The MacDonald Islands have neither tariffs nor subsidies and yet they are still tariffed at 10%.
Fortunately penguins are quite chill.
Sarcasm aside this is absolutely typical of a Trump supporter. You've no idea what he's done or what the consequences are, but you are sure it's right. He didn't put tariffs on countries with tariffs and subsidies, he put it on countries with a trade surplus in goods with the US. In other words he is specifically trying to suppress free trade.
US Company Outsources, Who Knew? (Score:1)
So, an "American laptop computer manufacturer" outsourced their production, overseas, and now has a problem. Whoa!
Think of where "coder" pay would be, if not for outsourcing overseas. Or, how about working conditions and the length of work weeks. A couple decades ago, I looked at project work to help pay off unexpected bills. I quickly found out that my competition was not here in the USA, but overseas. There was no way to compete with someone working for less that $5 a day, a long day.
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Are we saying outsourced like they were once produced in American factories? How many laptops are domestically produced as in even assembly, much less components. Is there a consumer scale LCD factory in the US? Is it even possible to build any laptop with 100% USA made parts at all?
The U3 rate last month was 4.2, Americans have jobs right now, they seem to be competing with $5 a day workers just fine. If my company could replace me with a $5 person overseas I would start to think about my future differen
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Believe me, I've seen many coworkers go. The
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There was no way to compete with someone working for less that $5 a day, a long day.
Yeah, and still lots of US IT workers insist that their jobs can be 100% done from home... That in itself proves they're not that smart. They should say their job can be 99% done from home, with a 1% that can't (they probably shouldn't say that 1% includes attending office parties etc).
On a related note:
https://www.npr.org/sections/t... [npr.org]
And it turns out that the job done in China was above par - the employee's "code was clean, well written, and submitted in a timely fashion. Quarter after quarter, his performance review noted him as the best developer in the building,"