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Firefox Could Be Doomed Without Google Search Deal, Executive Says (theverge.com) 59

Posted by EditorDavid from the search-results dept.
An anonymous reader shared this report from The Verge: Firefox could be put out of business should a court implement all the [U.S.] Justice Department's proposals to restrict Google's search monopoly, an executive for the browser owner Mozilla testified Friday. "It's very frightening," Mozilla CFO Eric Muhlheim said.

The Department of Justice wants to bar Google from paying to be the default search engine in third-party browsers including Firefox, among a long list of other proposals including a forced sale of Google's own Chrome browser and requiring it to syndicate search results to rivals. The court has already ruled that Google has an illegal monopoly in search, partly thanks to exclusionary deals that make it the default engine on browsers and phones, depriving rivals of places to distribute their search engines and scale up. But while Firefox — whose CFO is testifying as Google presents its defense — competes directly with Chrome, it warns that losing the lucrative default payments from Google could threaten its existence.

Firefox makes up about 90 percent of Mozilla's revenue, according to Muhlheim, the finance chief for the organization's for-profit arm — which in turn helps fund the nonprofit Mozilla Foundation. About 85 percent of that revenue comes from its deal with Google, he added. Losing that revenue all at once would mean Mozilla would have to make "significant cuts across the company," Muhlheim testified, and warned of a "downward spiral" that could happen if the company had to scale back product engineering investments in Firefox, making it less attractive to users. That kind of spiral, he said, could "put Firefox out of business." That could also mean less money for nonprofit efforts like open source web tools and an assessment of how AI can help fight climate change.

Ironically, Muhlheim seemed to suggest that could cement the very market dominance the court seeks to remedy. Firefox's underlying Gecko browser engine is "the only browser engine that is held not by Big Tech but by a nonprofit," he said.

Firefox Could Be Doomed Without Google Search Deal, Executive Says More | Reply

Firefox Could Be Doomed Without Google Search Deal, Executive Says

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  • fresh air (Score:3)

    by aRTeeNLCH ( 6256058 ) on Sunday May 04, 2025 @07:50AM (#65350941)
    Surely is true, so that's refreshing to the previous state where bad management decisions were the biggest risk to Firefox....

  • How is it ... (Score:3)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Sunday May 04, 2025 @07:53AM (#65350943) Journal

    ... that we can have a full featured open-source operating system without being dependent upon one huge funding source, but not a browser?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Because an "operating system" sounds big but isn't big. A browser is big, it shouldn't be but it is.

      Also, an OS is technically driven, a browser is financially driven. There are a lot more sociopaths in browser chain. An open source operating system is worthless, as an end-user product, without a browser to run on it. An OS is a glorified app launcher from the user's perspective.

      Walmart exists because, despite all the complexities of making countless products, there is one thing all products have in comm

      • There is help available ... please seek it.

        • There is help available ... please seek it.

          What's your justification for that remark? Beyond the "stop voting for Republicans" parting shot - except for the very recent past, Red and Blue aren't really that much different - I see the comment you're replying to as a remarkably insightful analysis.

          • What's your justification for that remark? Beyond the "stop voting for Republicans" parting shot - except for the very recent past, Red and Blue aren't really that much different - I see the comment you're replying to as a remarkably insightful analysis.

            Not sure I need a "justification", lol

            But in any case, the guy's first two sentences were reasonable enough ... then he suddenly started spewing political gobbledygook like the kid spewing pea soup in The Exorcist.

        • No, there isn't. Not really. It's not covered by insurance.

      • then maybe firefox might improve if the mozilla foumdation died and the firefox, seamonkey & thunderbird souece code was forked and went to github & gitlab and teams of decelopers trimmed the fat off and they turned into a cleaner leaner browser & email client, and hopefully websites got ungoogled so they worked better without the googley code, i guess i am an optimist that dont see doom & gloom with every major change

        • teams of decelopers

          I assume that's a portmanteau of decent developers. I like it.

          • this darn phone, the spell check works in my email client and text editor, but not the browser, seems strange, i disabled chrome and refuse to use it, and chrome on android is really just a frontend gui that uses "Android System Webview" for the browser engine as so several other android browsers, at the moment i am using Berry browser which is another frontend for Webview

      • "Did Musk, or Jobs, or Andreesson, or Dell, do any of the work to make the products they are known for?"

        If you think it's easy to gather that many items from that many suppliers and get them to a certain at a certain place at a certain time feel free to open your own business.

  • "It's very frightening," Mozilla CFO Eric Muhlheim said.

    He is only afraid of losing that big paycheck, that he only gets because of the truckloads of money Google sends to Mozilla.

  • then Muhlheim is part of the problem (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dfghjk ( 711126 ) on Sunday May 04, 2025 @08:16AM (#65350967)

    'Firefox's underlying Gecko browser engine is "the only browser engine that is held not by Big Tech but by a nonprofit," he said.'

    No, Firefox is held by Google, his testimony shows that. Firefox is just as beholden to Google and the Chrome team is. That's the problem.

    'Losing that revenue all at once would mean Mozilla would have to make "significant cuts across the company," Muhlheim testified...'

    Oh no, that would mean the cuts would have their intended effect! Why is a Firefox hog better than an Apple hog? They're both feeding at the trough of corruption.

    If Mozilla can't justify its own existence without sucking at Google's teat, they can say goodbye. What we have here is a business executive, Muhlheim, getting rich off Google's monopolistic bribes and complaining that you can't impose a solution because it hurts him.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by jamienk ( 62492 )

      I think there really is something to your point. FF never tries to take advantage of the weaknesses of Google and Apple, they always play nice and never step on toes. They didn't make a big deal out of being blocked from iPhone. They didn't pound of Google over manifest v3. They didn't ho for jugular against the bad monopolistic practices. They didn't set up an alt vision against the "App stores" or the "Cloud" etc. It feels like they decided to just try to stay in their own lane and coast. Do not get me wr

  • Firefox is just a tool (Score:3)

    by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Sunday May 04, 2025 @08:18AM (#65350971)

    Google doesn't pay Firefox from the goodness of their heart. They pay Firefox because having more browsers, even if completely insignificant, makes Google look better and less monopolistic. Firefox has become a corporate whitewashing tool.

  • Firefox used to exist before Chrome (Score:3)

    by xack ( 5304745 ) on Sunday May 04, 2025 @08:26AM (#65350973)
    It was winning the battle against Internet Explorer, and it had almost 30% market share. Firefox needs actual people fighting for it again. If you aren't actively using Firefox and haven't donated to Mozilla then you are part of the decline of Firefox.

    • and haven't donated to Mozilla then you are part of the decline of Firefox.

      It's not going to work with donations. Mozilla make the bet of becoming a big corp: hiring lots, making noise, headquarters in one of the most expensive cities in the world. This only works with big bucks from B2B services. They'd now need millionaires queuing day and night to feed the bottomless pit. Their only product is for consumers, which famously won't give a cent, and their only source of money comes from a "pact with the devil" (a deal with their main competitor).

      The hybrid corp/non-profit status is

  • Why not require Google to give its stock to the top 50 web browser companies? Just literally "split it up" and give the pieces to those poor, poor competitors it has treated so unfairly. That way, no matter how much money Google makes, all of it will go to its competitors.

    • Why just browser companies? Google also owns DoubleClick, so should they also distribute their stock to other ad companies? Google also owns YouTube, so should they also distribute their stock to other video streaming companies?

      In any case, confiscating ownership stakes in Google and giving it to others would be a massive redistribution of property. If you have a 401(k), your retirement probably includes some portion of Google stock. Your proposal would take that away from YOU and the other millions of pers

  • "Ironically, Muhlheim seemed to suggest that could cement the very market dominance the court seeks to remedy".

    Ironic, yes. Surprising, no. Yet again, government accomplishes exactly the opposite of what it aims to do.

  • Not for Mozilla, but for Firefox.

    There will be quite a lot of forks. Most will die soon, but there will be one or two surviving, maybe forked by one of the larger groups like GNU, FSF, Apache Foundation, etc. and it can only get better than what Mozilla does to the browser.
    And that Mozilla thinks they can't survive without Google money is the best indication for their mismanagement. Other organizations create larger projects with less money, entirely by donations. Mozilla invests more money into management

  • Can we get back to the judge's decision that Google Search is somehow a monopoly? He's clearly either corrupt or a complete idiot (porque no los dos?). There are many other search engines. I haven't used Google's in years. He's incompetent and ought to be removed from the bench.

    • It doesn't have to have 100% of the "market" to be a monopoly. Think of it as a "near monopoly" because that is what it is. The few competing search engines mostly use Google or Bing as their base. So the only real competition is Microsoft Bing, and that is way far behind, and also a huge, monopolistic entity itself.

      The search space is, indeed, not healthy. Neither is the browser space, with Firefox being the ONLY non-Google-based multiplatform browser. And it doesn't help that Mozilla is beholden to G

  • Firefox has had enough money at various points in time to have invested it into a trust and to pay out from annuities to support the entire development team for the indefinite future lasting decades at a minimum.

    Mozilla foundation has burned money left and right on frivolous adventures having little or nothing to do with Firefox.

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