Grading for Equity Coming To San Francisco High Schools This Fall (thevoicesf.org) 323
An anonymous reader shares a report: Without seeking approval of the San Francisco Board of Education, Superintendent of Schools Maria Su plans to unveil a new Grading for Equity plan on Tuesday that will go into effect this fall at 14 high schools and cover over 10,000 students. The school district is already negotiating with an outside consultant to train teachers in August in a system that awards a passing C grade to as low as a score of 41 on a 100-point exam.
Were it not for an intrepid school board member, the drastic change in grading with implications for college admissions and career readiness would have gone unnoticed and unexplained. It is buried in a three-word phrase on the last page of a PowerPoint presentation embedded in the school board meeting's 25-page agenda. The plan comes during the last week of the spring semester while parents are assessing the impact of over $100 million in budget reductions and deciding whether to remain in the public schools this fall. While the school district acknowledges that parent aversion to this grading approach is typically high and understands the need for "vigilant communication," outreach to parents has been minimal and may be nonexistent. The school district's Office of Equity homepage does not mention it and a page containing the SFUSD definition of equity has not been updated in almost three years.
Grading for Equity eliminates homework or weekly tests from being counted in a student's final semester grade. All that matters is how the student scores on a final examination, which can be taken multiple times. Students can be late turning in an assignment or showing up to class or not showing up at all without it affecting their academic grade. Currently, a student needs a 90 for an A and at least 61 for a D. Under the San Leandro Unified School District's grading for equity system touted by the San Francisco Unified School District and its consultant, a student with a score as low as 80 can attain an A and as low as 21 can pass with a D.
Were it not for an intrepid school board member, the drastic change in grading with implications for college admissions and career readiness would have gone unnoticed and unexplained. It is buried in a three-word phrase on the last page of a PowerPoint presentation embedded in the school board meeting's 25-page agenda. The plan comes during the last week of the spring semester while parents are assessing the impact of over $100 million in budget reductions and deciding whether to remain in the public schools this fall. While the school district acknowledges that parent aversion to this grading approach is typically high and understands the need for "vigilant communication," outreach to parents has been minimal and may be nonexistent. The school district's Office of Equity homepage does not mention it and a page containing the SFUSD definition of equity has not been updated in almost three years.
Grading for Equity eliminates homework or weekly tests from being counted in a student's final semester grade. All that matters is how the student scores on a final examination, which can be taken multiple times. Students can be late turning in an assignment or showing up to class or not showing up at all without it affecting their academic grade. Currently, a student needs a 90 for an A and at least 61 for a D. Under the San Leandro Unified School District's grading for equity system touted by the San Francisco Unified School District and its consultant, a student with a score as low as 80 can attain an A and as low as 21 can pass with a D.
If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: If you're not familiar... (Score:3)
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"Rich" is a relative term here. School teachers aren't going to retire onto their yacht and sail about the world at the age of 50, but they also have a reasonable income and a guaranteed job so long as they don't actually molest the students. Compared to the Times Rich List, they're poor. Compared to half the kids they teach -- particularly the ones this sort of measure is aimed at -- they're rich.
Re: If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Informative)
"Rich" is a relative term here. School teachers aren't going to retire onto their yacht and sail about the world at the age of 50, but they also have a reasonable income and a guaranteed job so long as they don't actually molest the students. Compared to the Times Rich List, they're poor. Compared to half the kids they teach -- particularly the ones this sort of measure is aimed at -- they're rich.
You clearly know nobody who is a schoolteacher. They tend to have to spend their own money to purchase supplies for their classrooms because budgets are too tight for the district to be able to provide the supplies needed for the classroom. Many teachers spend money on their students instead of buying themselves food. Frankly, you have to be trolling or a functioning moron passing as compos mentis to believe that schoolteachers in America are "rich" -- especially in the schools where "the ones this sort of measure is aimed at" attend.
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My sister and her husband are both teachers in the Greater Bay Area (not sure which specific district) and they seem to be doing pretty good. They own a very nice townhouse and both drive nice cars along with good retirement lined up. Not a bad job if you can tolerate all the nonsense, both kids and bureaucrats.
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So the OP was correct; you don't know anyone who is a school teacher; you knew someone twenty years ago.
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20 years ago my girl's bff was a school teacher in California. She had 5 years of teaching experience, she taught science and math, she took a few extra teaching classes over those 5 years to boost her career.
She was making 86k in California.
No idea what she's got going on now but 86k to teach HS math/science in a middle class area near SF in 2005 was pretty god damned good. I worked way fucking harder than her for 100k.
Did she spend a few bucks on school supplies? About $100 per year. Whether or not he spent her own money on supplies is an entirely different issue from whether she was poor/middle/rich. Those two things have nothing to do with each other.
Was 86k rich? Not for the area but she certainly wasn't poor. She had a nice car, nice apartment, went on vacations, didn't bother working over summer for extra cash, etc. She was doing just fine.
The idea that she bought school supplies instead of food is simply outrageous. Please provide a url for the story of any school teacher in this country who has ever done that in the last 50 years.
Your single anecdotal story is, I'm sure, completely true, despite its complete contradiction with the anecdotal stories I could personally give you about the several generations of public schoolteachers from just my personal immediate family. But anecdotal evidence isn't worth shit, so rather than tell you about the experience of my mother, sisters, and daughters, let me give you exactly what you asked for: A url for the story of any school teacher in this country who has ever done that in the last 50 yea
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Rather than relying on your anecdotes, public school salaries are a matter of public record. That 86k SF math teacher salary from a few years back is VERY plausible.
Today’s SF median teacher salaries are between 100k and 150k per public records (depending on the high school), which compares favorably to the SF overall median of 105k across all jobs. For example, see https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba... [sfchronicle.com]
In fact, the median salary of teachers in every state exceeds the state’s overall median, and that
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Rather than relying on your anecdotes...
Which is why I explicitly said I was going to NOT rely on anecdotes, and then I provided none.
...public school salaries are a matter of public record.
Yes; yes they are: https://www.nea.org/resource-l... [nea.org]
That 86k SF math teacher salary from a few years back is VERY plausible.
No; no it is not. If you read the article I linked in the comment to which you're responding, you will learn that the average teacher salary in the SF district being discussed was $55k.The premise that the salaries in all other districts in SF would pull the average up by $31k, or 64%, is not believable.
Today’s SF median teacher salaries are between 100k and 150k per public records (depending on the high school), which compares favorably to the SF overall median of 105k across all jobs. For example, see https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba... [sfchronicle.com]
Sorry; I can't follow that paywalled link. I will assume you
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I work with schoolteachers, daily. They make six figures.
Ooh! Testimony that is both anecdotal and and the most extreme outlier available! Nice! Yes, in California, the highest-paid State in the US for schoolteachers -- which is, of course, tied to the fact that it has one of the highest costs of living in the country -- the average schoolteacher salary does actually just barely break $100k. Averaging across the entire country, however, (source: NEA [https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank]) tells a differen
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I work with schoolteachers, daily. They make six figures.
Ooh! Testimony that is both anecdotal and and the most extreme outlier available! Nice! Yes, in California, the highest-paid State in the US for schoolteachers -- which is, of course, tied to the fact that it has one of the highest costs of living in the country -- the average schoolteacher salary does actually just barely break $100k. Averaging across the entire country, however, (source: NEA [https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank]) tells a different story:
National Average Starting Teacher Salary: $46526 National Average Teacher Salary: $72030
But I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the average schoolteacher makes 6 figures...
California average school teacher salary: $101,084
Equivalent salary in Little Rock [nerdwallet.com]: $56,726.84
It's still technically probably a little bit above average at the moment, but it sure isn't what most people think of when they hear the words "six-figure salary".
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On one hand, you chide them for using places with high local income to demonstrate their point (leaving out the general high median salary and cost of living) while you do the same thing on the low side- showing the "National Average Teacher Salary: $72030" without showing the national median salary, of $47k for those who don't work year round, an $60k for those who do.
Teachers exceed the median, nationally.
Average is a stupid metric,
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Let me see if I'm following you. You are criticizing my data because it undersells my point?
No, I'm criticizing you, not your data.
Trying to misrepresent the argument may gain you points among your friends, but it'll get you nowhere here.
You're saying that I'm being misleading because I the average that I used makes my argument weaker, rather than using the median, which would've made my argument stronger?
No, I'm saying you're being misleading because you selected a lower number (national vs Bay Area) without also pointing out that nationally, teachers still greatly exceed median wages. You were trying to demonstrate that they're poor by comparing the national average Teacher wage with average wage in SF, without pointing out just how well teachers do nationally.
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The median teacher salary in the United States is $63,000 (for nine months of work, equivalent to $84,000 for twelve months).
Annual welfare payments range from $36,400 (Hawaii) to $11,500 (Mississippi).
Compared to poor students, teachers are indeed rich.
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"Compared to poor students, teachers are indeed rich."
Which city is this post about again?
Re: If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:4, Insightful)
for nine months of work
I guarantee you literally every teacher in the country works more hours in the year than you do. "Oh look they have nine months off". Well on behalf of the teacher sitting downstairs right now at 21:57 as I post this, who is still grading students exams, fuck you and your ignorance.
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I know a rich former teacher ... (Score:3)
I have never met a rich grade school teacher.
I have. A Harvard grad that taught at public school until he was a respectable 30 years old and ran for Congress, successfully. He thought being an "educator" would be politically advantageous. He had it all figured out in high school. Politics was his actual career goal from day one. Entitled rich kid, full of himself, but polite and friendly in general. He eventually lost to someone who had an even better plan from day one. Enlist in the Army straight out of high school, then state college, then a public
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I hated all those rich high school teachers.
Claiming there are "rich" high school teachers still teaching in America, is like claiming we have an overcrowding problem on death row due to innocent volunteers.
Some claims, simply do not make fucking sense. No one would torture themselves like that. Not if they're actually rich. Wealth buys sanity. Unlike any school policy, law, or regulation ever could.
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In SAN FRANCISCO. Pretty sure they could be making more money in the private sector there.
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
The simplest version is if you're poor or some rich, white teacher thinks your race is inferior and just can't do any better, they pad your grade so you pass. If it sounds kinda racist, that's because it is.
Good grief. What they are also doing is taking whoever it is they are trying to give out free grade upgrades to and creating a group of people who are now going out into the world and looking for work, and once the employer sees where they graduated from, it's a big strike against them.
So I can tell you if this pans out, I won't hire anyone who went to school in San Francisco. I'm looking for capable people, not people pushed through a participation trophy system. Which unfortunately isn't a good deal for students who do well. And yes - it is racist as anything I've ever seen. Having worked with many highly qualified people of various skin tones and ethnicities, I can tell y'all they don't need grade hyperinflation. They just happen to be smart, capable, and good at what they do.
So I'd like to ask the participation trophy teachers - are you helping, or are you just trying to get those students passed and out of your hair?
Maybe some tutoring would be better, that would actually prepare the child for life beyond high school.
Nahhh, the answer is to just bump up the grades, that's what prepares you for life! Or maybe the opposite.
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
People who hire for jobs that don't require a college degree, but do require the ability to read, write, and do some math. And want people who have demonstrated the ability to show up and take direction.
Exactly. Like it or not, a High School Diploma is supposed to connote a level of ability. Does a passing grade of 21 percent equate to a person who will do all those things competently?
I mean, people believing in this think that people who are only right about something 2 times out of ten is sufficient, well you need to create a business and only hire at that level.
The insane part is that rather than say "Something is wrong with our school system, we have to work on better methods of teaching, they are saying - there is something wrong with the grades student's are getting, we need to make the grades higher by just assigning higher grades.
San Francisco is embracing total failure of their public school system. 21 percent is a passing score. Yeah, the path to success - or maybe not.
FTA "The plan comes during the last week of the spring semester while parents are assessing the impact of over $100 million in budget reductions and deciding whether to remain in the public schools this fall."
To me, the answer is pretty simple. Home schooling or private. A school system that considers getting it right only 2 times out of 10 is grooming for failure, and is itself an abject failure. Teachers who cannot teach, and a system that horrible needs replaced with something else that expects the students to get a correct answer once in a while.
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Yes, that's why grade inflation is such a problem.
That 21% represents a D-. By way of comparison, the average SAT score in 2024 was 1024 out of 1600. That's 64% which is a D, so a D- isn't so bad..
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:5, Insightful)
What employer looks at high school?
You look at where they went to high school. And if they went through the San Francisco public school system, you can make an assumption they were "equitably graded" and might not even have basic skills.
This is a bad deal for students who did not need their grades bumped up.
ps. when looking at resumes, I always looked over everything, including High School. Never asked for grade transcripts, but the modern public school system often has other matters they consider more pressing than actual knowledge, so yeah, SF schools are a red flag now.
Deeper issue that "grading" etc is harmful (Score:4, Insightful)
See Alfie Kohn: https://www.alfiekohn.org/arti... [alfiekohn.org]
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You can tell a lot about a teacher's values and personality just by asking how he or she feels about giving grades. Some defend the practice, claiming that grades are necessary to "motivate" students. Many of these teachers actually seem to enjoy keeping intricate records of students' marks. Such teachers periodically warn students that they're "going to have to know this for the test" as a way of compelling them to pay attention or do the assigned readings - and they may even use surprise quizzes for that purpose, keeping their grade books at the ready. Frankly, we ought to be worried for these teachers' students. In my experience, the most impressive teachers are those who despise the whole process of giving grades. Their aversion, as it turns out, is supported by solid evidence that raises questions about the very idea of traditional grading.
Three Main Effects of Grading
Researchers have found three consistent effects of using - and especially, emphasizing the importance of - letter or number grades:
1. Grades tend to reduce students' interest in the learning itself. ...
2. Grades tend to reduce students' preference for challenging tasks. ...
3. Grades tend to reduce the quality of students' thinking. ...
More Reasons to Just Say No to Grades
The preceding three results should be enough to cause any conscientious educator to rethink the practice of giving students grades. But as they say on late-night TV commercials, Wait - there's more.
4. Grades aren't valid, reliable, or objective. ...
5. Grades distort the curriculum. ...
6. Grades waste a lot of time that could be spent on learning. ...
7. Grades encourage cheating. ...
8. Grades spoil teachers' relationships with students. ...
9. Grades spoil students' relationships with each other. ...
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Homework is generally harmful too: https://www.alfiekohn.org/arti... [alfiekohn.org]
And so is "competition": https://www.alfiekohn.org/arti... [alfiekohn.org]
Essentially, just about everything in modern schooling was *intentionally* designed to dumb down kids and make them more compliant, as John Taylor Gatto, a New York Teacher of the Year, explains:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/20... [lewrockwell.com]
"I'll bring this down to earth. Try to see that an intricately subordinated industrial/commercial system has only limited use for hundreds of millions of self-reliant, resourceful readers and critical thinkers. In an egalitarian, entrepreneurially based economy of confederated families like the one the Amish have or the Mondragon folk in the Basque region of Spain, any number of self-reliant people can be accommodated usefully, but not in a concentrated command-type economy like our own. Where on earth would they fit?"
Se also by Gatto: "The Seven Lesson Schoolteacher"
https://www.informationliberat... [informatio...ration.com]
"Look again at the seven lessons of schoolteaching: confusion, class position, indifference, emotional and intellectual dependency, conditional self-esteem, surveillance -- all of these things are prime training for permanent underclasses, people deprived forever of finding the center of their own special genius. And over time this training has shaken loose from its own original logic: to regulate the poor. For since the 1920s the growth of the school bureaucracy, and the less visible growth of a horde of industries that profit from schooling exactly as it is, has enlarged this institution's original grasp to the point
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Thanks for the reply. The value of a grade on the context, which can be complex. Example: "William Lowell Putnam Undergraduate Mathematics Competition 2016 at Rutgers"
https://sites.math.rutgers.edu... [rutgers.edu]
"The exam consists of two parts (morning and afternoon) with 6 problems in each part. Each problem is worth 10 points for a total of 120 points. The exam is very difficult; typically a score of 20 points (2 problems fully correct) is already good enough to be in the top 20% of exam takers. A score of 40 points
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"once the employer sees where they graduated from"
You actually believe any employer cares about what HIGH SCHOOL someone graduates from?!?!
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"once the employer sees where they graduated from"
You actually believe any employer cares about what HIGH SCHOOL someone graduates from?!?!
I am not an "employer", but yes, being in a technical field, my peers and I looked at entire records. We interviewed candidates. We made decisions on who to hire.
And when knowing that San Francisco public school systems now consider 21 percent a passing grade, we're going to look very closely at anyone who comes from that failed system.
It's called Due Diligence.
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:4, Interesting)
So I can tell you if this pans out, I won't hire anyone who went to school in San Francisco. I'm looking for capable people, not people pushed through a participation trophy system. Which unfortunately isn't a good deal for students who do well.
Unfortunately, it's not just San Francisco. The district I live in has told teachers they cannot fail anyone; and now many students simply no longer care about homework or test knowing they won't fail. One math teacher I know is still failing kids and is getting serious flak from the administration over it. I suspect she will retire at first chance and we will lose another good teacher. I also suspect eventually you'll not be able to give out D's either...
So I'd like to ask the participation trophy teachers - are you helping, or are you just trying to get those students passed and out of your hair?
Knowing a lot of teachers, they're just trying to survive in a system that seems hell bent on destroying them. At some point, it's easier to simply pass them and avoid the aggravation and extra meetings you have to attend when parent's complain. In the end, it's not the teacher's job to force you to learn.
Re:You're not thinking like an administrator (Score:4, Interesting)
"Every year we cut the school budget"
Yep, no need to read any further.
Amazing the lengths some people will go to in full support of only getting 21 percent correct as a passing grade.
This is terribly harmful to the students. Why even work if guessing the right answer 2 out of ten times qualifies you for a diploma?
To me, that is the whole point. A 21 percent passing grade can be achieved by just guessing at the answer.
I test for Amateur Radio licenses. The lowest license level, called "Technician", is designed to be not particularly difficult, it is an entry level license. But you do have to learn some things. Out of curiosity, one of the instructors talked a non-technical person who hardly knew anything about radio to take the test.
The guy scored 50 percent just by guessing. Not a passing grade, but a guessable one. In the San Francisco system he would probably get a "B", considering that 41 percent correct is a "C".
Idiocracy was supposed to be a warning, not a guide or documentary.
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get those students passed and out of your hair
It's always this. To be fair, teachers put up with some insane shit. My mom was a mathematics teacher and flunked the star football player, so he threw his chair at her.
Anyone that actually cares about uplifting kids knows all of this is a cop out.
What we are seeing is the public school system self destructing. The pattern has been developing over the years, with pass-fail grading, ejection of male teachers from the classrooms, and wholesale drugging of young males in order to make them compliant.
In my son's middle school in the 90's the teachers attempted to get every single male student put on Ritalin. When they told me he should be put on Ritalin, I asked if he was a problem. " No, but Mr Olsoc, he's such a big and strong boy!" I told them, no
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:4, Informative)
Why wouldn't they? When the metric everyone cares about is graduation rates, the easiest solution is to just rubber stamp as many diplomas as possible.
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The simplest version is if you're poor or some rich, white teacher thinks your race is inferior and just can't do any better, they pad your grade so you pass. If it sounds kinda racist, that's because it is.
The funniest part of your overtly racist whine is that the stated purpose of the plan (if it even is a real thing) is to adjust the grading process to make it go easier on the richest students, as is made clear from these excerpts from the linked article:
District materials highlight a decrease in A grades for ‘more privileged’ students.
...in Placer County, another jurisdiction with the grading system, “students who did not qualify for free or reduced-price lunch had a sharper decrease in A’s..."
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It's got nothing to do with racism (Score:2, Insightful)
When my kid was in high school it was literally standing room only. Their math class had 45 students in a room designed for 25. Five or six of the kids in the back really did have to stand.
Are you folks dropping vaguely racist comments that kind of sort of imply that the other races besides yours are inferior while carefully making sure to not state it outright (what you didn't think I was going to hear that do
Re:It's got nothing to do with racism (Score:5, Informative)
Schools are not massively underfunded. Dollars spent per student has risen steadily forever (trillions$) yet the results have gotten steadily worse and worse. The problem is where people like you are spending the money instead of teaching kids the basics. Lighting even more money on fire won't fix that.
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:4, Informative)
Poor, minority students will now receive even less education and be graduated with a diploma that does not represent an ability to read or do basic math.
Re:If you're not familiar... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Don't try to pretend there isn't a strong correlation between poverty and race"
I'll "pretend" that's it's far less about race than you seem to suspect. Measure "choices", not skin color of the end result.
Example: Measure those who:
o finished high school
o didn't have a kid while in school
o go to college or a vocational school
o don't have a kid while in school (part II)
o don't have a kid before getting married.
Now, measure the results of those who made those choices. Far, far less poverty along all racial groups. Correlation is truly meaningless and "equity" is about trying to make the results the SAME regardless of what every one puts in to their lives rather than "fix" the social aspect of the problem that appears to be the actual cause.
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Look at you roll over and play victim.
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What are you even talking about here? You're claiming that just because some minorities in America are disproportionally poor that makes anti poverty programs inherently race based? How does that make sense? If my local food bank disproportionally serves black people does that make their operation race based? Of course it doesnt. Black people are more likely to be laid off during a recession, does that mean unemployment payments are race based? Of course not.
This program is looking to target problems faced
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I like that you're projecting the façade of being constructive without offering anything specific that might actually be constructive.
You say shit like "I don't think it's crazy to point out that many "equity" programs are meant to address racial inequities more than poverty, and that is almost always the wrong target" but offer zero support for your claim. I say this because quite frankly I think it is most definitely crazy to insist anti poverty programs are race based when they have no such criteria
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I'm not arguing in favor of the effectiveness of this program. In fact, I think passing kids with such low scores is an awful idea. I am arguing it is not race based and you are not addressing that here.
Explain to me exactly how white and minority children are being treated differently by this program? What part of it says "white kids get this" and "black kids get this"? If they are not being treated differently based on their race then how can you say this is a race based program?
This program is meant to a
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Sounds a bit like college - at first (Score:3)
I'm well used to exams that will give you a C if you score only a 41 out of 100 from college. Called "grading on a curve", though some classes have been around long enough that they're averaging over multiple classes and multiple years. Then you have tests like the ASVAB, SAT, ACT, etc... They're all curved and otherwise adjusted from raw score to the final.
Depending on the teacher, the curving system can be extremely complex. They can chuck outliers like the student who regularly scores 20 points over everybody else, decide that 10% of the class is getting an A, declare that 80% of the class is getting at least a C, etc...
That said, I'd object to using color of the skin for padding purposes.
Grading for Equity eliminates homework or weekly tests from being counted in a student's final semester grade.
Eliminating homework actually makes some sense - in the age of AI, it is too easy to fake much of the time, and is one of the things that tends to separate out the low income types from achieving as well as high income types, because one of the things high incomes enable is time savings. If you have to get a job as a teen to keep your family housed, well, that's less time for homework. If you can afford to be driven everywhere, that's time saved over the bus. If you have to visit the library for internet access, that's extra time needed. Etc...
Same deal could be argued for weekly tests. Performance capability at the end is what matters.
Mind you, I remember my parents talking about the New York Regency tests, which wasn't 100% of the grade, but could replace your grade if you did better on that test than what the teacher awarded.
Had an uncle who hated one of his teachers, and it was mutual. He got an F in the class, which was upgraded to an A because he aced the regency test. Note: This was so rare that he got investigated for possibly cheating, because the test was deliberately harder than the class.
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Yeah, de-emphasizing homework is a broader movement with a bit of merit. It's a tricky balance, but absolutely a household that's under water will frequently not permit a child the time needed to complete homework. Also, the child that can basically have the parents practically do their homework for them have a big advantage, even before AI cheating was a thing.
Re:Sounds a bit like college - at first (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it depends. I'm all for eliminating busy work, but some topics, such as working complex algebra problems, just requires repetition to master. Sure a student might be able to memorize and regurgitate the "rules" quickly, but developing an intuition such that they can actually solve problems efficiently requires a certain amount of volume of worked problems. Unless we want class time to be reduced to the teacher overseeing the students completing worksheets rather than being devoted to instruction, there needs to be a certain amount of math homework.
The same can be said for writing. Getting good at it involves writing a decent number of bad essays on the themes in "The Great Gatsby" or whatever and getting feedback. The only way to improve is to do it, and the teacher can't spend all of their time supervising a room full of kids with their heads down writing.
Color of skin? (Score:2)
That said, I'd object to using color of the skin for padding purposes.
Where are you getting race is being considered? Despite our current nonsense culture war "equity" doesnt automatically mean race is being brought into this and there's nothing in either the summary or cited article that mentions race. It seems pretty clear to me they're talking about equity in regards to income where kids in poorer families typically perform more poorly in school and trying to level that playing field in regards to that by changing expectations and what they're graded on.
I'm not saying I th
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That said, I'd object to using color of the skin for padding purposes.
Where are you getting race is being considered? Despite our current nonsense culture war "equity" doesnt automatically mean race is being brought into this and there's nothing in either the summary or cited article that mentions race. It seems pretty clear to me they're talking about equity in regards to income where kids in poorer families typically perform more poorly in school and trying to level that playing field in regards to that by changing expectations and what they're graded on.
I'm not saying I think these changes are a good idea mind you, I just don't see anything about race here.
As much as you're questioning the parent about race, why the hell are you bringing up income?
Grades are meant to measure mental capacity and capability to learn. They don't exist to measure incomes. The hell exactly are YOUR expectations with this program? Reward poor morons because they're poor, or reward rich morons and pretend they not still morons?
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Grades are meant to measure mental capacity and capability to learn. They don't exist to measure incomes. The hell exactly are YOUR expectations with this program? Reward poor morons because they're poor, or reward rich morons and pretend they not still morons?
Why are you pretending I was advocating for any of this and not just pointing out there's no mention of race in any of this?
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Grades are meant to measure mental capacity and capability to learn. They don't exist to measure incomes. The hell exactly are YOUR expectations with this program? Reward poor morons because they're poor, or reward rich morons and pretend they not still morons?
Why are you pretending I was advocating for any of this and not just pointing out there's no mention of race in any of this?
It seems pretty clear to me they're talking about equity in regards to income
Why are you deflecting? It seems pretty clear to me what you said and believe. This isn't about race or income. It's about education. And remembering the entire point of it. To create a valid end product that is actually educated. Not merely pass a moron with a failing grade in order to pat an incompetent "teacher" on the back and secure more funding. Or to pass a moron in high school to ensure a future customer on a campus marketing success while supplying fiscal failure.
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Why are you deflecting?
Why do you continue to make shit up about what I'm saying? At the end of my post you initially responded to I clearly state "I'm not saying I think these changes are a good idea mind you, I just don't see anything about race here.".
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I'm a fool because I noticed that there's zero mention of race in either the summary or cited article? No, you're just an idiot who spends too much time culture warrioring.
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The change is literally: Richer people do much better, relative to poorer students, when assessed on homework or by weekly testing than they do when assessed by examination at the end of the course so they will now score enti
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The changes make sense on the surface, but the focus is entirely on the thing that doesn't matter, the grades. They should focus on learning.
The question that really matters is, "Did they learn it?" Ideally, grades should directly reflect that. If students aren't learning it, then the students need to be given support (like tutoring or whatever) so they can learn it.
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Eliminating homework actually makes some sense - in the age of AI, it is too easy to fake much of the time, and is one of the things that tends to separate out the low income types from achieving as well as high income types, because one of the things high incomes enable is time savings.
I recall classes where homework was 50 percent of the grade. And that was just dumb. Eliminating that as part of the grade makes sense.
But the idea of making weekly tests not counting makes it utterly pointless to even have them. If something is useless, eliminate it.
If you have to get a job as a teen to keep your family housed, well, that's less time for homework. If you can afford to be driven everywhere, that's time saved over the bus.
Oh, come on. I worked the whole way from Junior High through end of high school. I did my homework when I was off. And why did I work? I came from poverty. This is as insulting to those people are coming from poverty, as it is for people who
They dont leave you behind. (Score:3)
How the hell can 41% be... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Ultimately, the percentage can be arbitrary without massive standardization.
If a middle school teacher had a basic algebra test be comprised of half advanced calculus questions for some reason, then 50% would be a pretty respectable score.
Of course the answer shouldn't be shifting from one arbitrary threshold to an easier arbitrary threshold, but what teachers usually do, adjust to a curve to reflect limits in the testing effort.
Re:How the hell can 41% be... (Score:5, Insightful)
In general American education systems are obsessed with people getting perfect, or near perfect, scores. Better education systems typically have a mix of much more demanding questions to better differentiate levels of ability. Take a look at what the 2/3rds of OECD countries that have better maths education than the US do when scoring and you'll see that this idea that a high percent score means anything (or is even a good idea) is baseless.
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Re: How the hell can 41% be... (Score:4, Interesting)
Damn! I'm going back to high school! (Score:2)
School Choice Advocates Rejoice (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone with money will be sending their kids to schools that have standards, so luckily this only affects poor San Franciscan families. Religious families also bypass this by sending their kids to religious schools.
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Anyone with money will be sending their kids to schools that have standards, so luckily this only affects poor San Franciscan families. Religious families also bypass this by sending their kids to religious schools.
Not lucky for the poor San Franciscan kids, that's for sure.
If you're using School vouchers (Score:2)
If you're poor or just working class then you do not want to send your kid to a private school. Even if you somehow come up with the money or get a scholarship or something.
That's because you're dirt poor kid is going to be surrounded by a bunch of rich kids. And they are going to be treated like shit.
And not just by the students. The teachers will rip
Is this a real article? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this a real article? Or a real plan?
A quick search didn't turn up a wikipedia article or any references toThe Voice of San Francisco. The items linked within the article appear to be a bunch of draft documents with place holder numbers (XX%) and other random paragraphs.
For all we know, this could all be some sort of AI hallucination.
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I came to the same conclusion after a bit of searching. It's clearly not what the article claims it to be, and it reeks of AI slop misunderstanding what it read.
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There are links to a presentation, someone asked questions about it, and the answers to those questions contain the details.
TL;DR:
Taking the linked documents at face value, this is some sort of an experimental program that has gathered 70 participating teachers to test this new method of testing grades.
1. The presentation, which mentions the "Grading for Equity" thing:
https://go.boarddocs.com/ca/sf... [boarddocs.com]
2. The answers to questions about the presentation allegedly by someone who saw it:
https://docs.google.com/d [google.com]
Re:Is this a real article? (Score:5, Insightful)
I did a little digging and you can find the calendar of the meetings online here (https://www.sfusd.edu/calendars) which then links to the agendas and goals. The grading for equity is on the agenda. And following routes from the SFUSD site lines up with the other links in the article. So the source material is real. The draft documents might have a few placeholders, but that is normal until an agenda is formally accepted/released.
So, no this is not an AI hallucination. This is a real life plan. Whether or not you agree with the approach, the approach is being attempted.
What happens when kids still fail? (Score:3)
"Consultants" seem to call the shots (Score:3)
Great job on deniability, guys.
Uh oh? did I just step in something?
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We went through this 'consultant' crap back when I was in HS (class of 96). In Texas we have standardized state-wide testing. You get 'practice' tests in 8th grade and they start the real testing in 9th grade in the fall. You take it until you pass, every semester, until one last session after graduation--if you still fail at that point you don't receive your diploma.
This test is based on a 6th grad education standard.
The failure rates are so high that almost every class in high school effectively tos
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Does this comment make me look ancient?
Also, thanks for the pointer, don't hire anyone from Texas.
Re:"Consultants" seem to call the shots (Score:4, Insightful)
Do they not do this anymore?
I hated doing it when I was in 3-4th grade....but glad I did, helped me out SO much in my later life....
NY Regents Testing Similar (Score:5, Informative)
Since 1866, New York State has had a standardized testing regime at the end of high school to qualify for a statewide Regents Diploma [wikipedia.org]. Since at least 2015, they likewise goose the scores in a broadly similar way. You can see a scoring conversion chart from last year here [nysedregents.org]. For example, out of 82 possible points on the Algebra I test, scoring 29 (that is, 35%) gets scaled up to a reported score of 65, qualifying for performance level 3 (out of 5, like a 'C'), and so qualifies for the Regents Diploma (more [nyssba.org]).
In the time since that's been done, the proficiency of basic math skills for incoming college students has become so poor, the colleges (like CUNY) have had to abandon the requirement to know any algebra even as an expectation to graduate college.
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They didn't have to, but they wanted more poor performing minorities.
All their Asian students and most white ones know Algebra just fine.
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I personally have a lot of white and Asian community-college students who can't do basic algebra.
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This, right here, is how we end up with Dr. Lexus (Score:4, Informative)
This, right here, is how we end up with Dr. Lexus.
Watch Idiocracy if you don't know who Dr. Lexus is.
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At this point, I think Idiocracy should be taught in schools just like Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 are.
It's an allegory of how Stupidity is just as dangerous as Totalitarianism and Cencorship.
Grading for Customers. (Score:3)
Let's be clear here. The policy of dumbing down a failing grade to call it "average" at the high school level is being done for one reason only; funding.
We stupidly and ignorantly tied school funding to grade performance. Go figure Greed wants to call even a failing grade as "good enough" for funding purposes. A predictable end result after finding high school graduating classes loaded with 80% "honor" graduates. Damn near everyone is an "honor" student now? I wonder if any student or teacher know what a bell curve is.
And now, the incentive to attend college is softening. And those aren't students anymore at colleges. They're customers. Walking around a campus-sized marketing campaign to sell overpriced goods to young idiots too stupid to understand how loans work.
The policy of dumbing down a failing grade to call it "average" at the college level, is to attract qualified customers.
Graduating with 40% is obscene! (Score:3)
Regardless of the merit of grading on a school-wide curve, the lowest ranking schools should STILL require a real passing grade to pass the class. Fuck 40%!
Will make school better (Score:2)
All the dregs can just smoke and play on their phone in the yard, anyone interested in class can go there. I fail to see the problem.
So "Equity" means not educating bad students (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like equality for women is when they qualify for jobs on merit, not when they are given jobs because they have a vagina.
Scores are bullshit anyways... (Score:2)
I can make an exam where I can garde the same answers as 30% or as 90%. Not hard to do.
But allowing students to take the final exam multiple times without repeating the year is some advanced bullshit.
The Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations (Score:2)
George W. Bush
Anyone care to refute this?
bah (Score:2)
Oh no, without meaningful homework our education system might become like South Korea's or Finland, oh wait. Homework is stupid. My grades sucked in high school because I just could not bring myself to do a lot of it. I ended up fine educationally speaking.
Good job! (Score:2)
Set up an even greater number of marginal students for slap-in-the-face abject failure, hang a millstone around the necks of the good students by making them suspects-by-association, and hand the enemies of DEI a truckload of ammunition to help Fascists win the war. That's an impressive trifecta!
I am very strongly left of centre, to the point where I consider most elected Democrats to be slightly kinder, slightly gentler versions of their Republican counterparts. Even at that, in this moment I find myself m
My country did this, it went poorly (Score:2)
Narrative Too Convenient (Score:2)
This story appears to be some combination of AI hallucinations, people with political axes to grind, or an incomplete story. Be wary of "news" that fits a convenient narrative.
If you thought US education ... (Score:2)
... couldn't get any shittier, prepare for incoming.
I am a teacher (Score:3)
As a lifelong democrat in California and in my 24th year of education, I can say that social justice has run amok in many California school districts. From math lessons that explain how Jews steal Palestinian water to reckless social promotion, schools have, in places, dramatically lost their way. Teachers generally fight the good fight, but some of them are in on the side of stupid.
We need the good old truancy police. We need forced detention and in-school suspensions. Kids need limits, as do parents. And if that leads to misdemeanor stints in juvi or jail, so be it. It'll scare most of the kids straight, and the parents to.
Worse than Common Core (Score:4, Insightful)
Ten years ago I talked to my son's high school math teacher and she said the Common Core curriculum was dumbing down students' math. She said colleges were complaining that they now have to require students to do remedial math upon entering college because Common Core is so bad. I had looked at my son's math over that year and figured Common Core math covers lots of material so shallow that it's quickly forgotten and no one gets mastery over any of it.
Lowering grades in the SF schools means colleges will have to pay attention and adjust their acceptance criteria from schools like this.
My sister worked in a doctor's office for a while and in walks in a top-10 of all time NBA player who went to a top-notch academic university and was the top player in the NCAA for several years. He had trouble filling out the standard form when you show up for a doctor appointment. She had to help him. She was surprised how illiterate he was.
Lowering school standards for athletes does a disservice to them. Lowering them for everyone in SF hurts everyone that goes to school there.