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UK 'Exploring Plan For Digital ID Cards' (independent.co.uk) 76

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect dept.
Mirnotoriety shares a report from the Independent: Downing Street is exploring a proposal to introduce digital ID cards for every adult in Britain in a move to tackle the UK's illegal migration crisis, according to reports. The new "BritCard" would be used to check on an individual's right to live and work in Britain, with senior No 10 figures examining the proposal, The Times has reported.

The card, stored on a smartphone, would reportedly be linked to government records and could check entitlements to benefits and monitor welfare fraud. [...] ... it would cost up to 400 million pounds to build the system and around 10 million pounds a year to administer as a free-to-use phone app.

UK 'Exploring Plan For Digital ID Cards' More | Reply

UK 'Exploring Plan For Digital ID Cards'

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  • As an American no way would I do this (Score:5)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 06, 2025 @05:14PM (#65432734)
    But this is purely an American problem. When you get pulled over by a cop you do not want to have any problems handing over your ids. Papers please.

    And not just because our police are trigger happy and have been known to deport people who are US citizens. But if the cop is just a little tiny bit more annoyed at you he can and will make your life a living hell for the next several weeks or months.

    There is currently a large problem of cops accusing sober people of being drunk or high. There is a 2-month backlog with a lot of the blood Labs so they will get blood drawn and then you have to spend the next two months fighting with our legal system waiting for the blood draw to come back. Even then you will have spent thousands of dollars on a lawyer to make sure that you don't spend 90 days in jail and take all the social impacts from getting a dui. As in their companies that won't hire you if you have a DUI...

    It doesn't help that every year we put more cops on the street and every year crime goes down. And not just because there are more cops. Actually not at all because there are more cops. Crime is going down regardless and that means the cops have less to do. But they are still expected to arrest as many people as they did last year. It's like everything else we need to see bigger numbers. Line must go up..

    All that means to me is that I would never want a digital ID card. Although I will admit this is a uniquely American problem.

    • fark.com is a satire site. As if you do not know.

      Blood tests are only used when breathalyzers are not available, and you have not passed a field sobriety test.

      • Fark is the news aggregator. It has what I would call a centrist bias because I'm not going to pretend America has a left wing and it's an American website.

        Please don't like breathalyzers because they are very unreliable especially when poorly calibrated which the ones in the field always are. This means that anyone who can hire a decent lawyer can easily evade a DUI conviction that's based on a breathalyzer test as they should because well, they are extremely unreliable.

        This is also why you should

    • When you get pulled over by a cop you do not want to have any problems handing over your ids

      This is a thing in literally every country on the planet that has a functional government. They don't just allow you to drive on public roads without proof of being issued a license to drive. I get that you're opposed to showing a license because you don't have one, but there's a good reason for that: After your 5th DUI, you proved that you're a danger to everybody else on the road, and people off the road. No sane government, anywhere, ever, would allow you to drive on its streets.

      But if the cop is just a little tiny bit more annoyed at you he can and will make your life a living hell for the next several weeks or months.

      In your case it was perma

      • This is a thing in literally every country on the planet that has a functional government.

        Hello from the UK. You are not required to have your driving license on your person. If you don't when the police ask, you have a week to present it at a police station.

        https://www.gov.uk/legal-oblig... [www.gov.uk]

        Now much as I like to take a great big dump on my government on a regular basis, in practice when it comes to general world-wide standards it is functional.

        • Hello from the UK. You are not required to have your driving license on your person.

          You might want to read what you linked. Here's a direct quote:

          Before you drive or ride

          You must:

          have the correct driving licence

          And also:

          Showing your driving documents

          If a police officer asks you to, you must be able to show:

          your driving licence

          Notice nowhere does it say it's optional. So yeah, you're required to have it on your person there just the same as everywhere else. While I can't speak for there, over here if you don't have it, what happens from there depends on the local laws, but in every state here the officer has the discretion to allow you to continue driving without it, and they'll probably issue a citation that, in general, you can have rescinded just by showing

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by niks42 ( 768188 )
            https://www.gov.uk/legal-oblig... [www.gov.uk])

            Showing your driving documents
            If a police officer asks you to, you must be able to show:

            your driving licence
            a valid insurance certificate
            a valid MOT certificate (if your vehicle needs one)
            If you don’t have the documents with you at the time, you may be asked to take them to a police station within 7 days.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by niks42 ( 768188 )
              So obvs. there is a convenience factor that may strongly encourage me to carry my licence, and have access to insurance doocumentation. Even the latter is again more of a convenience, since the number plate (aka License plate) will give any police or insurance company access to the vehicle testing status of the car, and that there is insurance on the car, who it is with and which drivers are permitted to drive it.

            • First, it would probably be better to quote the actual law, which isn't what this is.
              Second, you seem to misunderstand the meaning of the word "must". Either that or it's a thing in the UK where the word "must" is interchangeable with "may".

            • Keep in mind, by the way, I'm commenting based on the wording of the link provided, not actual UK law. Unless you guys have it in your heads that this the actual law itself then...well you've got bigger issues, because while I don't live in the UK, I do know that this is not the legislation that is actually enforced.

          • i absolutely dearly love the arrogance of angry people on the internet, especially when they are wrong.

            Here is the only relevant direct quite from the article:

            If you donâ(TM)t have the documents with you at the time, you may be asked to take them to a police station within 7 days.

            So... yeah. You don't need to. I'm sure you'll try and hyper-fixate on something or other to "prove" you are correct even though it's right there. You must produce it... except if you don't have it you have to show someone lat

            • i absolutely dearly love the arrogance of angry people on the internet, especially when they are wrong.

              Why are you so angry, then?

              If you want to get very techincal it's an offense to not produce it

              This is actually what I said. Here, I'll quote myself:

              They don't just allow you to drive on public roads without proof of being issued a license to drive.

              • So when I said "You are not required to have your driving license on your person.", your long and condescending post was actually you saying "yes I agree"?

                And since you're dreadfully forgetful you also said:

                GP >> When you get pulled over by a cop you do not want to have any problems handing over your ids
                You > This is a thing in literally every country on the planet that has a functional government.

                And as I pointed out, it isn't in the UK because as you now know, you don't actually need to carry you

                • So when I said "You are not required to have your driving license on your person.", your long and condescending post was actually you saying "yes I agree"?

                  That might have something to do with the fact that your own source was at odds with your comment, likely because you didn't understand what was actually said by both me and your own source material. Which you've established as a pattern. Which means condescension is warranted.

                  And since you're dreadfully forgetful you also said:

                  Are you trying to argue that you don't need to prove that you're licensed to drive in the UK?

                  • You only think my own source was at odds work what I said because you didn't read it all.

                    I'm saying you do not need to carry your license with you which means I'm that case you are not obliged to produce documentation when your are stopped. It's not complicated. I'm not sure why you are making a meal out of it. Though given that you also don't know what an allegory is, it seems you struggle work words and their meaning.

                    • You only think my own source was at odds work what I said because you didn't read it all.

                      I quoted it. Here, I'll do it again:

                      Before you drive or ride

                      You must:

                      have the correct driving licence

                      I'm saying you do not need to carry your license with you which means I'm that case you are not obliged to produce documentation when your are stopped.

                      And I'm saying that's not what your source says, which I already made clear. It's not complicated. Do you understand the meaning of the word "must"? And I'm not talking about the state of your domicile.

                      Though given that you also don't know what an allegory is, it seems you struggle work words and their meaning.

                      Yet when I asked you to explain how you think I misused it, you couldn't. You also don't understand the meaning of the word fantasy. Or the word must. See that? Three makes a pattern.

    • "It doesn't help that every year we put more cops on the street and every year crime goes down."

      Sorry to rain on your claim,

      Comparing 2019 to 2023 data for the last five years shows that:
      - In Washington State, the increase in murders is more than five times higher than the national
      trend (87.4% vs. 17.2%), and the murder rate has increased more than 80% since 2019.
      - Violent crime rates have increased 19.6% in the last five years in WA State, while they have
      decreased 4.1% nationally.
      - Aggravated assault rates

  • But (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Friday June 06, 2025 @05:15PM (#65432736)

    There are probably a few million people (that were born in Britain) that don't own a smartphone.

  • Headline a year after the introduction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JamesTRexx ( 675890 ) on Friday June 06, 2025 @05:32PM (#65432758) Journal

    "Identity Data Stolen From All Britons By Smartphone Spyware"

    If not

    "Foreign Governments Have Access To UK Residents' Private Data Through Their Smartphones"

    • Plus, they'd probably have an ability to unlock your phone from the inside on demand.

      • TFA: ...those living in the UK without regular status were âoeexploited by criminal employers, which in turn suppresses wages for legal citizens and migrants alikeâ.

        I fail to see how "criminal employers", who don't care legal status now, will be affected by this.

        5 years after introduction, your ID will be scanned and a record made when you buy that pint of London Pride that I could do with right now.

  • A smart card work work better (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Striek ( 1811980 ) on Friday June 06, 2025 @06:22PM (#65432850)

    Not everyone has, or wants, a cellphone. Even among those who do, many have just a candy bar or a flip phone. A bill like this can never become law - it's tantamount to forcing an entire populace to purchase a smartphone. It has serious civil liberties and logistical hurdles.

    A much better idea is a smart card, or some kind of hardware device. Protect it with a "Personal Identification Number", or a yet to be invented smartcard+fingerprint reader (concerns with biometric identification notwithstanding). Call it a... PIN card. This would have the benefits of A) Being much cheaper and easier to replace, B) Being issuable to those who don't or can't own a smartphone, and C) Not requiring citizens to hand over their entire digital lives to get an ID checked. It could work like, I dunno, a PIN card like you have from the bank - which serves the same purpose: identifying you to the bank.

    The fact that this is even being considered suggests to me that either someone saw a flashy powerpoint and hasn't yet been schooled on the legal and logistical challenges, or B) It's a pork barrel project. Either way, it's a problem in search of a solution. The problem is "We need a more verifiable way to identify people when required by law". A smartphone app is not the only possible solution.

    I'd even be OK with a smartphone app, as long as it was an option, not a requirement - but we all know where that road ends.

    • I agree. I spend about 12 hours a day working behind a computer keyboard/screen so when I'm not working I simply have no desire to carry a smartphone. I have an old-fashioned phone that only does SMS and voice -- I don't want to be connected to the internet 24/7.

      What about *my* freedoms and rights?

    • A bill like this can never become law - it's tantamount to forcing an entire populace to purchase a smartphone.

      This is not a bill, this is an exploratory proposal. And it is a proposal that has (quote from the Britcard proposal's website) "Ensure accessibility for those with low digital skills and non-smartphone owners, including the provision of in-person support channels"

      Calm yourself. You're not just putting the cart before the horse, you've run ahead and invented the fucking car.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Striek ( 1811980 )

        Thanks for the clarification, I'd only read the linked article and not the website (which to be fair to me, wasn't mentioned in the article).

        The challenges I presented are still valid. Sure, they'll "ensure accessibility for those with...", but it never works out that way. The closest thing I can think of is a driver's license being our de facto standard ID card in Ontario. My brother, who doesn't drive, doesn't have one, so he has an "age of majority card" - and nobody knows what the hell it is. I think so

    • Not everyone has, or wants, a cellphone. Even among those who do, many have just a candy bar or a flip phone. A bill like this can never become law - it's tantamount to forcing an entire populace to purchase a smartphone. It has serious civil liberties and logistical hurdles.

      What I would do is make the acceptance of these cards mandatory to banks, employers, public services, etc. when they request proof of identity. I wouldn't make it mandatory to own the card/app/QR tattoo.

  • While I do agree that we need some sort of a national ID card (there's never been one in the UK), I am not comfortable with having to install a government app on my phone.

    • There is a National Insurance Card.

    • Why do we need a national ID card. I'm happy without one.

    • We absolutely do NOT need an ID card. There's no use case for a universal ID card that isn't solved with greater privacy protections by another means.

      Further more, and specifically for this story - an ID card will do *nothing* to stop illegal migration. Illegal migrants already can't get jobs in "proper' places because they all have to do checks on identity. Illegal migrants can, and do, cash-only work, or become slaves for their criminal overlords. That simply won't change one inch because of this. All tho

      • Stop overdramatising, mate. We do need an ID card. If you don't have a passport or a driving licence, you are royally fucked, and have to prove your identity through bank statements or council rax bills. This is no longer 1800s. We need a modern way of proving who we are, without depending on the privilege of having a driving licence, and carrying a passport with you everywhere is just not feasible at all.

        • Okay, you're describing another case that doesn't need a universal id card. All those people with passports, driving licenses and all the other things don't need it.

          What else have you got?

          • Not everyone has a passport and definitely not everybody has a driving licence.

            All other people DO need an ID card. You should NOT have to prove who you are with a council tax bill!

  • For people who are irked by the idea of being assigned a number, this sort of thing doesn't appeal.

    But there's a balance between this drawback, and the convenience and efficiency it introduces. "Immigration crisis" aside, a single card which can be used for taxation, dirvers license, passport, and general identification does have a lot of advantages - both for the authorities and the individuals.

    Japan has recently introduced a "My Number" card. It's not necessarily a model to be replicated - there's room fo

    • If you are in any first world country, you are in a database. If you have a social security number, you are in a database. If you have a passport, you are in a database. You've already been assigned a number. (Just in a very crappy insecure system like a social security number.)

  • What you need for authentication without a computer:

    * A very good fake ID.

    What you need for offline authentication with a local authenticating computer:

    * Name, address, picture, signature ID#, and whatever else is supposed to be on the ID
    * Something that's hard to fake that matches your actual face or fingerprint (see above)
    * A digital signature to authenticate everything above.
    * On the authenticating computer, you will need a list of revoked signing certificates or canceled ID cards (excluding those revoke

  • About 40 years ago, the idea of a National Identity card to stop fraud, did the rounds through multiple countries. At the time, linking everything to one number was seen as a massive enabling of government abuse, fascism and identity theft.

    Nowadays, having to publish one's identity for every serious purchase, and corporate tracking through one IMEI or email account, means fascism has been enabled, and (possible) identity theft is a common problem. Plus, people now accept some form of tracking throughout

  • Let me get this straight (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Friday June 06, 2025 @10:36PM (#65433339)

    The card, stored on a smartphone...

    So every adult British citizen is required to have a smartphone? Hell no! If my government requires me to have a cellphone, then they can fucking well both provide the phone and pay for any service it might require to fill that government-mandated function. And BTW, the thing is going to be turned off and stored in a Faraday pouch until the card is demanded.

    Britain was stupid to leave the EU, but the EU is better off without Britain. Their downhill slide into authoritarian-leaning, Fascism-courting governance has been sickening to watch.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      The UK is behind Spain on this one. Spain's normally twenty years behind, but their smartphone app ID card [dnielectronico.es] is already live.

    • Britain was stupid to leave the EU, but the EU is better off without Britain.

      Erm... you do realise many EU countries already have national ID cards and the UK presently doesn't in any form, right?

      • Not true. In the UK, both banking and hotel registration are happy if you present your Driving Licence as proof of identification.

        • Yes it is true. We don't have a national ID card. Of course we have various ways of identifying ourselves. A way of identifying yourself doesn't equate to a national ID card: there are plenty of ways of being ineligible for a driving license. You can use a passport too, but that is also not a national ID card.

      • Britain was stupid to leave the EU, but the EU is better off without Britain.

        Erm... you do realise many EU countries already have national ID cards and the UK presently doesn't in any form, right?

        Are the national ID cards in those European countries exclusively smartphone based?

        I understand the need for governmental verification of ID. I object to requiring a smartphone for it, as it's getting uncomfortably close to being chipped.

  • The government's own figures show that about 40-50,000 people per year arrive via unauthorised means. Of them the the vast majority claim asylum and thus cease being "illegal migration".

    The governments own webpage on unauthorised migrants show anything between there being 650000 illegal migrants in the UK back in 2013, and there being the same number now. Heck based on some of their sources the number may have even dropped by 2/3rds since 2010 - the government's own sources are inconsistent on this.

    The UK h

    • Starmer is a blank slate of beige who has no principles or guiding morals and is utterly shit-scared of the Daily Mail. He's so desperate to stay in power[*] by not losing voters to reform that he's entirely happy to piss away twice the number of votes to the Greens and Lib Dems by trying to be reform lite.

      [*] And no one knows why. He doesn't even appear to be in it for the personal enrichment, Tory style, or simply for the love of power. He doesn't have any vision for the country or direction he wants it t

  • We have digital ids in Poland for how many years now? Can't even remember. There's not much left to explore. Just do it.
  • All businesses and gov agencies will require this ID for EVERYTHING.

    So you're actually saying everyone MUST have a phone, which is linked to their official ID.

    So now citizens will be required to carry a transponder, with a camera and microphone, photographic history and a dossier of their internet history at all times....

    Should be interesting what police do with protesters on this, or what criminals do with stolen phones.

    This is a BAD idea.

  • So, the 'ID card' on your smartphone will be used to 'monitor welfare fraud'? How would that work? By spying on your phone? Looking at location data? This is NOT an ID card, this is government spyware.

  • Even if the current Government was as pure as driven snow, a future Government can easily misuse identity cards. The first and overriding priority in contemplating identity card or the like is setting up protection from misuse, overseeing their use by a fully accountable body, subjecting all access to public freedom of information and future-proofing all of this from misuse.

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