Excerpt:Running to the Mountain 169
- I think the site is great and Rob and Jeff deserve some help with the rent money. Books fought from this site send some money back to them.
- We write a lot on this site about empowerment, about individuals taking some responsibility for their technology. Writers need to do the same. I argued for months that I could bring my book to readers directly and bypass the hype machinery than handcuff writers and keep them dependent on reviewers and producers and marketers. So I always saw a link between an OSS site and an experiment like this.
And it worked. It probably doesn't take that many books to go from 9,000 to 200 (last week my ranking was l.2 million) but I think this is an experiment that has really worked. It shows sites like this reach people, even sell things. It gives some money back to a site that has given everybody else, including me, a hell of a lot. It suggests another empowering possibility for the Net. Writers can get off their butts and communicate directly with readers.
So thanks to those of you who have been e-mailing me those nice words. Thanks to the people who are buying the book and giving a dollar or two back to the site. And thanks even to the flamers for adding their usual free-wheeling spice.
I plan to top 100 by the end of the today. The USA Today review helped, obviously, but this is the place that made it happen.
you can e-mail me at jonkatz@slashdot.org
Running to the Mountain
Written by Jon Katz
So, tentatively, with equal parts determination and terror, I set out on what Thomas Merton liked to call a journey of the soul.
Merton, a Trappist monk whose work I began when I was in the 9th grade and in sore need of solace, as did millions of others all over the world, was my guide on this trip. I'd read almost everything he'd written. He was a Catholic, I was raised a Jew; he had absolute faith, I never did. Still, for reasons I may never completely understand, he spoke to me, personally and powerfully. As a boy, I'd written him a letter that he never answered; if he had, I might have wound up in the monastery with him. Merton died thirty years ago. I never met him, but if a stranger's voice can enter one's soul, his permeated mine.
"It is absolutely impossible," he wrote all those years ago, "for a man to live without some kind of faith."
It is equally impossible to change your life without some.
A prolific author, journal keeper, letter writer and poet, Merton lived in the abbey of Gethsemani in the Kentucky woods. He was approaching 50 when he retreated to a hermitage; perhaps it's not coincidental that as I approached 50, I ran to a mountain, too.
Merton was obsessed with a central issue for our time -- figuring out how to live, trying to forge a life of balance, purpose and meaning. I've grown to share his obsession, his belief that life demands a lot of tinkering, and requires people to give birth to themselves not just once, but over and over.
Central to much of Merton's writing was the idea of these journeys, powerful images of seeking and traveling. The journey of the soul -- his term -- is to me one of his most important notions. It has enormous moral force and potent appeal to us wretched pilgrims as we struggle to find direction, to figure out what to believe, to incorporate some measure of spirituality and peace into our frantic lives.
On my own journey, in the years since I stared into those monitors, my life changed more radically than I had imagined.
I underwent years of psychoanalysis, became a writer, and swore never to work for a large institution again. Shedding ambitions, friends and colleagues of 15 years, I left the world of offices, annual evaluations, meetings, suits and expense accounts behind for good.
The world I entered -- the life of a suburban parent and solitary author -- could not have been more different. I crossed a vast cultural and social divide in months, from barking orders in a high-tech control room to holding up in the attic of my house trying to write and sell a novel, keeping one eye on the clock so I never missed a carpool.
Had I a realistic idea of what a writer's life would really be like, I would have thought a lot longer and harder.
But the point was, I began one year a big-deal producer and ended it at home, fielding calls about playdates from the other Moms, learning the ways of supermarkets, and sitting in front of an early primitive Apple computer at the dawn of the Digital Age clacking out the story of a network taken over by a heartless conglomerate.
So began the wildest ride of my life.
But as I turned 50 in the summer of l997, even before I stood on that mountain, I already suspected that I needed to take another trip, even if I didn't really know why.
A decade, seven books and countless articles later, I was driving up the New York State Thruway, my heart pounding like some eager traveler about the hit the road again.
Change, I remembered all too well, is risky and frightening. Much as you flail around seeking help, when it's all said and done, there is only one genuine source of inspiration, courage and determination -- that's you.
In fact, running to the mountain, another spiritual adventure, proved even more frightening than the first. A decade of shocks, disappointments, successes and defeats had accumulated since the last trip. If I had a heightened sense that one could successfully change one's life, being a writer had taught me time and again that rejection and failure were even greater possibilities. The first time, I'd leaped more or less blindly into the void. This time, I had a sense of what awaited me.
Only recently has it occurred to me that recounting this ongoing trek might be interesting or useful to others. But because so many people have embarked on journeys of their own -- of all sorts, from embarking on parenthood or divorce to changing a career and facing the end of life -- it may be worth telling.
E-mail jonkatz@slashdot.org with questiosns or comments.
If you want to purchase this book, head over to Amazon and help Rob and I pay rent.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
to the world of open source and his willingness to help those who are having problem with OSS based operatin... oh wait a second, he has never done any of that.
In fact what has he done? Other than write a few horrid articles here and there? Can someone please explain to me why slashdot has a serious case of Katz worship? Linus or Jordan I can understand. Hell even that foul mouthed, ill-tempered little punk Theo, but Katz? Have we run out of heros that quickly?
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
Often followed by short ones.
Katz is a joke, an author without a subject who seems to have adopted
Has he, like Bruce Sterling, released books with free electronic distribution? What has Katz ever really contributed? He's an Anonymous Coward with a login, slashdot email account, and an eye on getting back into slick print media.
If he really wanted to help Linux instead of just rah-rah from the sidelines, he'd sign up to write documentation for the FSF, or Debian, or any of a hundred projects that need manuals more than they need his approval.
Now it all makes sense (Score:1)
This all smells to high heaven.
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Only 28% of slashdot readers use Linux or *nix, while 55% of them use Windows. How ironic.
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
Cordova
Can't lurk all the time.
Katz worship. (Score:2)
Look, For you and all the other idiots that complain about Katz, I said it before and I'll say it again, noone came to your 'puter and forced you to read a Katz posting or a post by Hemos about Katz or anything else on slashdot for that matter. If you don't like it, don't read it. Thats what Titles are for, they tell you whats in a posting *before* you read it. I for one, like Katz's articles, and plan on buying his book. For my own amusment or just to piss you off, I haven't decided yet...
-deech
well.... (Score:1)
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
Katz is definitely one of us, and so are all of the AC posters, like it or not. We don't all have the same ideals and backgrounds, but we are all one. Who are you to question his contributions? Where are yours?
It seems like Katz gets a lot of resentment here, and Sengen too. Why is that? I think that these people are real. They express thoughts and opinions. They have real interests that extend outside of computers. I respect that.
Be more accepting of people, and you'll be accepted too.
Moron (Score:1)
Try understand how the world works before you make yourself look stupid, again.
Nuff said.
Now it all makes sense (Score:1)
I guess this proves the point
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Only 28% of slashdot readers use Linux or *nix, while 55% of them use Windows. How ironic.
Look in a mirror and say you are not like Katz. (Score:1)
He is trying to turn around his life to a more technically savvy state. This is something most of us have already done years ago as kids without so much as giving it a single thought. The nice thing is that Jon *does* give it a thought. And he filters the thought through some 50 years of experience living, and then tells people about it. This makes for very insightful texts on learning one's way around technology and the technologically savvy (ie us).
Note that all of us have gone through the same process. And personally, I *like* analyses of stuff I went through. They enhance my own insight in things, and that is Good Thing. It makes me more well-rounded as a human being and as a nerd.
Telling `other people' about how great being technologically savvy is is not an issue to me. I just don't care about that. You guys criticizing Jon seem to be very much against that. How 'open' or 'free' is that?
Me thinks that someone watched X-Files 1 too... (Score:1)
Yeah, you've found the big secret. We're actually tools for Random House. Congratulations. Your door prize is on the way.
Katz Sucks and I rool! vi4EVAAAAHHHHHHHH! (Score:1)
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
I mean, when you type "man ls", do you want a description of its switches, or a ten page rant on how ls is going to help the new geeks destroy the corporate culture and bring back the Sixties and get geeks more in touch with their geek roots and make everything geeky and cool and oh, by the way, I don?t use ?ls?, I use ?My Computer??
if Katz!=coder (insider==false) & more commentary (Score:3)
Considering that the articles written for this site are free, we could probably cut him/CmdrTaco et. al. at break for posting a book excerpthere-- why not grant him the press. I agree, however, that in general he's writing on a different level than a fair number of Slashdotters (or that they/we can appreciate.)
I find it fairly annoying to see, time and again, people rejecting Katz or other non-coders off-hand because they haven't physically contributed to
Linux, in the form of documentation, code or the like. There are probably more than enough Anonymous Cowards out there to tell me that that's what it's all about, and that I'm only bitter because
Not so.
Slashdot is not just about Linux-- it's about
--Anneke
"Real women use Linux"
Merton? (Score:1)
To the hardcore Katz-bashers: there is a world outside our boxen; it has a way of influencing the world inside our boxen (see the forest of Perens threads). So maybe Katz' posts can be seen as Stuff That Matters. Squint if you have to :)
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Shut up about "don't read it then" (Score:2)
I've said this before; it's important to pull your head out of the sand once-in-a-while, and take a look at the big picture. I really like Katz's writing, not because it's technical, but because it's insightful. If I wanted to read something technical, I'd grab an O'reilly book.
An offtopic slashdot article is an oxymoron.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
One of us, One of us, One of us....
Katz needs to contribute to the movement before he can crawl under the wagon and writhe in the mud.
Go ahead and write some documentation so we can hate you for other reasons.
*spitting out water* baaahaaahaaaahaaa (Score:1)
Very interesting stuff (Score:1)
Is it just me, or does Katz' writing style seem to change dramatically between his "geek" writings and when he writes about himself? For some reason when I read his tretises about nerd movies or open source, they always seem rather condensed and rushed. It's like trying to study "War and Peace" while stoned.
I could speculate that short articles really aren't Katz's ideal format, but I also think he has the ability to improve if he learns to make more subtle points with less verbiage. I also like the idea of Katz being "one of us", even if he isn't a true nerd. As Scott Adams once said while comparing his experience at PacBell with Jane Goodall's Chimpanzee research, "I was not a member of engineer society, but I worked closely with them."
-W.W.
What? Not one of us? (Score:2)
I say that Katz most definitely is one of us based on his interest in free software and its implications on society. That he is spending the time to try to learn to use Linux first hand is an even bigger indication that he's one of us.
I find Katz's articles some of the most interesting at slashdot because I've also considered the role of free software in remaking our society. It definitely can be argued that a large portion of geek community is concerned with things like freedom and privacy, two topics which he's written about in the past.
I like that he's a "real person" and not just a one-dimensional geek. As another slashdot community member, I don't want you to speak as a "proud member of the community". I'm embarrased by your exclusive ideas about who "belongs".
Katz worship. (Score:1)
I did not say that good writing involves writing for the mainstream press, neither did I claim that Slashdot *is* mainstream press. Distinguishing good writing from bad writing must be hard when you're unable to read.
Katz writes good, original articles. Slashdot needs that, and nobody else has done a better job than Katz in providing them. Certainly not either you or me, so neither of us should be bashing Katz unless we can do what he does better than him. Somehow, I don't think you're quite up to the challenge.
As to his spelling and grammar, it's about the best I've seen on Slashdot, though that isn't saying much.
What? Not one of us? (Score:2)
I say that Katz most definitely is one of us based on his interest in free software and its implications on society. That he is spending the time to try to learn to use Linux first hand is an even bigger indication that he's one of us.
I find Katz's articles some of the most interesting at slashdot because I've also considered the role of free software in remaking our society. It definitely can be argued that a large portion of geek community is concerned with things like freedom and privacy, two topics which he's written about in the past.
I like that he's a real person and not just a one-dimensional geek. As another slashdot community member, I don't want you to speak as a "proud member of the community". I'm embarrased by your exclusive ideas about who belongs.
Anonymous Coward != Proud Member of the CommunityA (Score:1)
Personally Jon strikes me as a pretty genuine person, and while not all of his articles are solid gold, he has made several excellent points (unlike certain random Anonymous Cowards I can think of).
No one is forcing you to read the Katz articles. In fact I imagine that will a little bit of perl scripting you could be free of Katz forever.
Unfortunately I can't hardly do the same thing to get rid of your silly posts. I might want to read what the more enlightened Anonymous Cowards have to say.
Jason
losers (Score:1)
yeah, whatever. i'm guessing the losers who post that have contributed squat to any free s/w project. one big goose egg. get a life.
i hate to reply to these morons, but not doing so gives the impression that they're in the majority. i'm sure for every negative post, there are 100 positive readers - who most likely don't read comments to jon katz posts since they're filled with mindless crap.
good, a bunch of you don't like him. wonderful! we've figured it out; we've all gotten the point the first 2^128 times you made it. now shut the fuck up.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
Maybe CmdrTaco edits his articles.
P.S. Just teasing Rob, keep up the good work!
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
Katz worship. (Score:1)
/. is more than just techie-oriented OSS news - certainly, reports on manned Mars missions, Star Wars prequels and Grateful Dead MP3s have little to do with Open Source. To my mind, this falls under the term "Stuff That Matters", as defined by Rob and his editorial staff. Their definition of the term doesn't always line up with mine, in which case I simply skip the article.
I would also point out that the term "good" is a relative one. By the standards you put forth as being required for "good" writing, ee cummings would not qualify (a statement with which a large number would disagree).
Back to the topic, I found the excerpt from Mr. Katz's book to be quite interesting, and will probably buy a copy. This would be the first book by him that I have ever purchased, I might add. You, on the other hand, are welcome to not purchase a copy, if you so desire. Isn't freedom wonderful?
IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIS ARTICLES STOP READING THEM (Score:1)
Why must people descend upon every single Jon Katz article they see and proceed to bash him, the article, and Slashdot for making it available?
Do you people get routinely beat up at school? Do you feel you have to vent your pent-up frustrations and emotional problems using every outlet available to you? Do you feel like a wimpy geek at school and that slashdot is the only place that you can pretend to be superior?
These anti-Katz comments are NOT PRODUCTIVE. If you have nothing productive to contribute to an article YOU SHOULD NOT BE POSTING. If you see the headline for an article that does not interest you, DO NOT READ IT. Skip it like you skip every other uninteresting article on Slashdot.
I am amazed by the number of you that do this over and over again. It's pathetic. Get a life.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
similarly if you dont like a comment, dont read it.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
Thats what titles are for? This particular title was completely useless in that it didnt tell me anything about the contents. So I read (some) of it. Can't comment without reading the content. It seems strange that people cant post their comments and thoughts without getting flamed. I decided I didnt like this statement about Jon being one of our own, so I made my thoughts public. So why the ranting response? Why dont people just accept my point of view and post their own, rather than just rant and swear and flame?
I didn't think it was possible, but... (Score:1)
Katz -> Stuff that matters, NOT. (Score:1)
Just goes to show you, anyone can write a book and get it published.
Why should anyone waste their time/money reading it, I will never understand.
Maybe JK can start his own web site called
KatzDot.org (Clueless rantings, stuff that matters not.)
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
I dont resent Katz posting on here, just the content of what he posts. I had hoped that with his background of journalism we might get another insight into the technical world from a different perspective.
Then explain how ... (Score:1)
If these are the only things that interest you, you have my sympathy. There is a whole other world outside of computers and technology, which is "Stuff That Matters". To me, at least, and apparently others here.
Geek (Score:1)
I refuse to read anything by Katz that doesn't have a 2.5% geek usage quotient. Oh wait. That's everything he's written.
Katz's reception not unusually hostile (Score:1)
When I think about the reactions to Katz, and the fact that my gut instinct is to flee far from anything he has written, at first I stop myself and say "remember, everyone was a newbie once". Then I remember that that Katz's technical inexpertice is not what's causing that gut reaction.
Growing up, I had the good fortune to have access to my father's old collection of Doonesbury comics (early 70s-era stuff) and there's a scene that seems to me a good analogy. Mike Doonesbury, the inveterate geek, (and I mean that in the "socially clueless" sense of the word) decides one day that it's silly that the lunch tables are segregated by social custom, and decides to go mix with the black students. Essentially, over a series of about 4 or 5 strips, he is told that by the black students that they don't want him to sit there, because they don't want to be part of his college "experience". Mike Doonesbury was an outsider who wanted, not to join a group, but to "share in the experience". I've seen some of the faces the black students made at Doonesbury reflected in my monitor when I read one of Katz's articles.
My senior year in high school a (Philadelphia Inquirer) reporter did a series of articles on "the class of 1993"; she did this by interviewing selected students at my high school (basically, she interviewed people in a program similar to high school work-study). The reports (there was a series of 4 inserts into the Saturday paper)made me twitch each time they came out. Surely this woman had not visited my world; even when I knew the life stories of the people she interviewed, I couldn't imagine how the reporter had turned them into what I read in the paper. In every story there was something fundamental she just didn't get. The gut feeling then is very similar to the gut feeling Katz gives me.
As an aside, I was not the only one to feel this way; in fact, the reporter had to come back and address the concerns of those students what wanted to be there; this did little but convince the students present that the reporter was possibly from another planet.
I view Katz as a similar interloper. His writing conveys the impression that he is drunk on the feeling of the philosophy of open source software, but when I look into it there's obviously something he just doesn't get - I can't put my finger on it at the moment, but it becomes clear that he is writing about the free software movement not because having heard about and investigated the free software movement he is moved to write, but because he decided to write about something cool, and free software is the latest cool thing. Note that it's not so much a lack of commitment to free software that dooms his efforts - I can easily imagine wonderful free software writings by people who can't compile "Hello world" - but his motivation and direction of approach guarantee not only that he will always be the outsider looking in, but that he will always be the outsider looking at a deliberate distance.
The true story of the 1960s generation was not told in the 1960s. The story could only really be told by those who were part of the generation (which took time); the outside media of the time just didn't get it. The free software story will not be told by the likes of Katz (or by Wired magazine, which is what his stuff reminds me of often), but by those involved. Katz (and other outside media) hangs on to his own identity as outsider too strongly to ever get the story right.
Incidentally, I get this feeling of "wrongness" from the media whenever they cover a story which I know from the inside, and after a while, I begin to see how they must be badly distorting other stories as well. One source of media where this isn't the case (that is, I get the twitches of wrongness less often, though regrettably it still happens) is NPR. Those who listen to "All Things Considered" or "Morning Edition" regularly, and then watch any form of TV news (or even then pick up most local papers) will know the difference.
Hail Slashdot (Score:2)
I'm very happy the excerpt was printed here -- I really fought for that to happen -- and that a percentage of all these sales are going back to Jeff and Rob and the site.
When we talk about empowerment and OSS, this is writer's version of that in action...skipping the machinery of hype to take a book directly to the people who might want to buy it. Very kewl. Many thanks to those of you e-mailing me and buying it. And thanks to to the flamers (I always think of those German fighters in WWII) who give all work a bit of spice. But this is really quite amazing.
Heh (Score:1)
Katz, Community and OSS (Score:1)
As for the content, people have recited the "news for nerds" mantra over and over again. I challange anyone to provide a solid definition of what that is. How come Star Wars fits but Katz mussings don't? Katz is not focusing on on the technical issues...thats fine....he is focusing on more abstract issues regarding the OSS phenomena than the purely technical, it might not always be relevent, but it is important....find me any one event, community or movement that did not have people who stepped back from the immediate goals of said group and looked at some bigger issues. This is vitally important to any movement it it wants to survive. Katz might not be technical, but he does seem to understand some of the deeper roots of what makes oss tick.
And about community, again, OSS/free software/Linux requires all types of people, not just coders or documentors. I personally, consider myself part of the community. I am technically oriented, done my time in tech support and all, but according to the average definition of what a OSS person is, I do not qualify. Why? I couldn't code my way out of a box, I don't have the time to document material, and, in short, I don't add anything original myself. Most human relations are of this sort, not of original creation but of partisipation in the project nonetheless. What do we do, submit bug reports, actually use the stuff being produced, show others the wonders of what computers can really do if one becomes literate in them and in general think about what the hell is going on. Its not coding, but it is still important to the survival of the movement. I'm sure there are tons of of other people like me who read
I remember my first attempts to install Linux, which failed miserably. As soon as I walked into the Linux area of the local software store looking at the distros, I was attacked by helpful geeks. That attempt failed, but latter other geeks took me under their wing and showed me the ropes to the point where I can now take care of myself. I'm no guru, but I am competent, and I'm repeating that process with others. Linux desperetly needs this in order to keep new people from coming in and from becoming evermore closed off, a static, closed society of geeks. How can we have open software and closed minds? My, that sounded cheezy, but the sentiment is there.
OK, I've spoken my peace, at least for now...I am actually vaguely toying with the idea of putting up a forum based site dedicated towards dealing with some of the "meta" issues of geekdom....the philosophy of geekdom, if you will. I'm sure many would not be interested in it, but it still might play a role in OSS. Does anyone out there have any interest in contributing to this?
Brian
You know... (Score:1)
My father was on the verge of 50 when we got him his first computer. My dad's a lawyer, a rabid SF reader, a history nut, enjoys technical toys, and is just generally a sharp guy. Granted, I may be biased
Still... thinking back on what my brother and I have gone through with my Dad over the past few years to get him computer-literate and on the net... it looks like Jon's come further, faster, than my Dad ever could have. We can't even convince him to try and tackle Linux (he still has the DOS command cheat sheet I made for him years ago!)
Congratulations, Jon. Keep on pluggin.
How about some OctobrX bashing? (Score:1)
NOT ONE OF US!!!
Please people. Does everyone have to be a coder to help the movement?
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Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
You say that Microsoft sucks, Macintosh sucks, and that people need to convert over to Linux and then in the same breath that Katz is just a bystander, not one of "us."
This reasoning requires only the brains of a retarded clam.
Katz is a writer. He is a member of the media. And no matter how new he is, he is a Linux user. Not a programmer, not a hacker, he is just a Linux user. This does not brand him as a looser or a lower form of life.
Get real. Grow up. Move along...
Quickies aren't fluff? (Score:1)
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Ehhh (Score:1)
news for nerds (Score:1)
In my case, it's not defense, so much as taking offense at the mindless hostility. So that makes me a moron? Whatever.
Your opinion is entirely based upon the "News for Nerds" catchphrase. That's a weak, weak, weak foundation upon which to base an argument. Here's a better one: slashdot is Rob Malda's web site, and its content is subject to his fiat. Now, what authority do you have, then, to suggest that a Malda-approved article-submitter should pack up and leave?
The POINT of Slashdot? (Score:1)
Know who invited Katz to stay? Rob.
Oh, and the rest of us too. We put it to a vote, remember?
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Similarities between Slashdot and Chaucer (Score:1)
When I used to study English in High School and University, they used to make us read books by authors from hundreds of years ago. These guys (Chaucer and Shakespeare) have not written any code that I'm aware of. If they did, it was in the pre-Linux years and is most likely not Open Source. I didn't really like the idea of reading stuff by these dinosaurs, and it was definitely tough reading (especially Chaucer who was writing in an early-Alpha version of English, probably version
Sometimes they used words that meant nothing to me. They would trip me up and get in the way of my finishing a sentence. I found the best way to deal with this was to cruise along, and skip over words that I didn't understand. I could pick up the gist of what was being said by the context. The tone of the piece often conveyed more information than the literal translation
I find myself slipping back into this reading mode when the endless hordes of Jolt-guzzling, OSS-cheerleading, self-righteous arbiters of literary good taste come out of the woodwork and start the weekly "John Katz lynch party". Their words run together and I'm left with an image of a narrow-minded, horribly *young* reader who seems to believe that they have all of the answers and that authors, artists and the over-25 crowd have none. I am embarrassed and ashamed by the company of my fellow slashdot readers.
This is simple proof that we are all whores ... (Score:1)
This "kickback" Rob and Jeff will now receive is all the proof needed to show that they no longer post what they feel is important, they post what will hype the site and make money.
How truly sad.
I also find it humorous that Katz's post is scored at a 2 instantly and this one will probably gain a -1 within minutes of it's posting.
To all the people who bashed me above for questioning the motives behind this story (Hemos included)
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Only 28% of slashdot readers use Linux or *nix, while 55% of them use Windows. How ironic.
Similarities between Slashdot and Chaucer - :) (Score:1)
LOL. That's great. Actually, though, he was writing an early-Alpha version of Modern English. His was referred to as Middle English, Olde English (from Anglo-Saxon) and Elizabethan English (Modern English for all intents and purposes) were on either side. Nice way of putting it, though.
Hurray! (Score:1)
# find
find: cannot open
Then explain how ... (Score:1)
Until then, I'll consider this katz.org.
Good.
Do that, get the hell out, and take your tunnel vision with you.
There is a whole lot more going on in this world then tech and toys. I pity you for your world view.
Upstate? Hey, Jon, where? (Score:1)
Now it all makes sense (Score:1)
Let's see - Rob (et al) provides a news filtering service, a public discussion forum, a question & answer service, and some original content. All of this was voluntary, all of this is free. Now, unless you're willing to pony up enough to feed Rob, pay Rob's rent, buy computers for Rob, and keep the phone company off Robs back, shut up. I doubt there is anything "under-the-table" going on, but I really don't care how he finances
14-year-olds Unite! (Score:1)
Katz != one of our own (Score:1)
Granted, it's from more of a "don't know much about it but like it so far" feelgood angle than you would normally find around here, but that makes it no less valid.
Really, I'm not sure why it bothers so many. As I said, he's not the type of writer I enjoy reading, so I usually just skip it (checked in today to see what people had to say about his book). You can do that too. It's okay.
And remember, getting another perspective is just like getting another opinion. You may get it, but you might not like it.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
Humm, this comment along with the dozens in the same or
viler tone only serve to confirm one's overwhelming impression
of many of the self-inflating pimply faced posters here... to wit
they are mostly mere children.
While one might wish they would grown up in age and deeper
in wisdom, one simply rests in the comfortable knowledge that
time will teach them, with a torch and a chain saw, what their
parents and teachers so utterly failed to accomplish.
invalid C syntax. (Score:1)
That means absolutely nothing. That's "Katz is not equal to one of our own." What does equal have to do with it? "Katz" and "one of our own" are not comparable quantities...Katz would be a subset (or not) of "one of our own," not equal to it.
If, as I assume, you meant "Katz is not one of our own," and wanted to look like you were tech savvy or something by phrasing it in el33t pseudo-C syntax, it should have read "Katz !is one of our own." Why you couldn't have just said "Katz is not one of our own" is beyond me, but if you're going to use C, use it correctly.
Anyway, I use != and stuff occasionally too, but only when it's useful and makes sense. "Open Source != Free Software" makes sense, since it's saying that the two quantities are not identical. "Katz != one of our own" does not.
Katz (Score:1)
Katz is "one of us" whether or not you want him to be. He may not be one of whatever group you represent, but he's part of this "community" of sorts. Rob invited him to write for slashdot. The users of slashdot voted overwhelmingly to keep him here. So if the owner and the users like Katz, who are you to say he doesn't belong?
Katz's reception not unusually hostile (Score:1)
*spitting out water* baaahaaahaaaahaaa (Score:1)
Do people around here have abnormally short attention spans? Why is it that everybody gets sick of reading and quits before they get to the end of a simple six word slogan? Try:
"News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters."
See that second sentence there? Next time read the entire thing, not just the first half.
Anti-everybody trolls. (Score:1)
What? (Score:1)
Rob invited Katz to write for slashdot.
In a vote, the readers of slashdot overwhelmingly voted to keep Katz around.
So tell me again why he does not belong here. If the owner and the audience want him around, why should he leave just because you and a few other vocal Anonymous Cowards personally dislike him?
invalid C syntax (Score:1)
Ok, this is the second invalid C syntax I've seen in the replies to this article, and this one's even worse. Something about Katz brings out all the wannabe programmers who pretend to know C.
1) if() requires parenthesis around the expression being evaluated.
2) you need something between coder and the opening parenthesis. You can't just stick another expression there with nothing connecting them.
3) What is a bitwise AND doing in there?
Even accounting for all the syntax errors, I have no idea what you're trying to say. "If katz is not a coder and insider is false and more commentary" perhaps? No matter how I look at it, it still doesn't make any sense.
get rid of slashdot! (Score:1)
Oh, and those quickies are a waste of time. What does a masturbation device have to do with nerds? Virtual Crack?
So let's get rid of Rob.
And OctoberX just hypes his site.
And Sengan posts political articles.
Hey, let's just get rid of the whole damn place then.
Either that or you could try not reading the articles that don't interest you.
It now makes sense: He's old (Score:1)
to repeatedly miss the point makes more sense
when I discovered from this post that he's
about 50. I thought he was a 32 year old
clueless jerk; instead he's a baby-boomer who
is reasonably close to getting it. Of course
he's not a Linux-kid; he's not a kid. His
sociopolitical interpretations of the Net
and 'puters are still too old-school, but
at least he _is_ old-school.
Point-by-point response (Score:1)
Whores sell themselves, not other people. And have you noticed the bannr ads at the top of every screen? They've been selling our eyeballs for a while. How else do you expect them to pay for this place and have time to maintain it?
This "kickback" Rob and Jeff will now receive is all the proof needed to show that they no longer post what they feel is important, they post what will hype the site and make money.
You're right! I wondered why the site sucked so bad! Thank you for lingering here, despite its suckiness, and warning us all!
How truly sad.
Yes, I'm sure you are wracked by grief. You'd love it if we abandoned this site in droves and began frequenting dabuzz.net. Your motives are pure and pristine, you desire only to serve your fellow nerds.
I also find it humorous that Katz's post is scored at a 2 instantly and this one will probably gain a -1 within minutes of it's posting.
Wrong again. You should probably see a shrink about your paranoia problem. Seriously.
To all the people who bashed me above for questioning the motives behind this story (Hemos included)
This sounds a lot like Saddam Hussein in 1990, declaring victory and pulling out of Kuwait. He's nuts, too.
Don't always agree.... (Score:1)
When I say worthwhile I mean : Makes you think.
If it makes you think "Katz is an idiot" that's fine, at least you thought about it and hey, it's your mind.
Katz isn't a programmer, he's a writer. He's contributing what he can. You may like or hate his contribution but at least he's putting something in and you're under no obligation to patch it in to your wetware kernel.
If the management of this site are giving Katz an open forum for his writings that's upto them. Katz has the
Personally I don't buy the religious aspect of this site. Its a free world and I'll wash my own brain thanks all the same. But that's my opinion, you reserve the right to yours just as Katz does.
- SparkyUK.
I've tried to be reasonable in this post but if you must prove your superior enlightenment go ahead, flame me.
Correlation (Score:1)
Running columns (Score:1)
I agree the way the amazon list is calculated is suspect, but so is the NY Times best seller list and the nielson ratings. Anyway, it is up to number 45 right now.
For people who liked the excerpt, Jon wrote some colums for hotwired in July and August of 1997 that are related to the book. The first [hotwired.com] was about trying to get wired on the mountain. The second [hotwired.com] is about the importance of water and the third [hotwired.com] is about coming down from the mountain.
Shut up about "don't read it then" (Score:1)
Because it's the core stuff that matters (Score:1)
Katz Sucks and I rool! vi4EVAAAAHHHHHHHH! (Score:1)
It's not that someone who is over 50 can't learn new technology if they already think technologically; they definitely can. A COBOL programmer can learn C at 50, no problem. However, it is much more difficult to cross disciplines as one gets older. A 30 year-old graphic designer can learn java programming, from a point of not knowing anything about computers, in the space of a year or less; it's very, very rare to find older brains capable of that sort of plasticity.
Jon Katz is a media guy, a word-person, who never had any real motivation to participate in technical disciplines. Things that seem painfully obvious to us - the nature of long-term storage vs. active memory, for example - are difficult ideas to grasp in minds that already have a rich and rather intractable metaphoric vocabulary. At 50+, he is much less likely to be able to suddenly immerse himself in a completely different cognitive landscape.
Viewer discretion advised. (Score:1)
It's OK though, the more time some people waste calling Katz names here the less time they have to mess up other topics.
--------
#34 and counting! (Score:1)
Hippie (Score:1)
We need those guys. Know why we need those guys?
They're the ones running things these days- _they_ are The Establishment. Bigtime. However much Katz wants to disclaim it, he _is_ Establishment. This is why he is so totally confident that no flames touch him- he knows he's getting all the breaks, and he can humor all the poverty stricken under-30s who will never touch the hem of his Birkenstocks or the fender of his Beemer.
He can spend a year or more playing writer- if it doesn't work out, he can go right back to being Big Boss Man with little fuss.
This is why his adopting Linux as a pet annoys. He is an aging hippie and believes he is legitimizing it.
Guess what? We need those guys- not because they are useful, for they are not- but because if they're against us, they will be an absolute bastard of an obstacle. We gotta reach those aging hippies running things, and get them pumped up about Linux and operating system choice. If we don't, it's Windows forever baby! They are much inclined to blindly accept what they are fed- as Frank Zappa observed way back in the 60s- and we need them blindly accepting Linux, otherwise they will blindly swallow Windows until they choke, meanwhile setting MS up for seriously alarming power and control over the entire world's information.
WE NEED THE OLD HIPPIES. I don't care how annoying they are, or what bankrupt ideological baggage they carry along with 'em. Some of that can be used to break down the monopoly... the point is, these guys ARE the establishment now, and if we can get them, it blows a major hole in Microsoft's, or anybody's, plans of manipulation and control. These guys are running boardrooms all over the country, beemers and birkenstocks and they still figure they are the spiritually elect. Fine- now let's persuade them that Linux, and open source, and the free software/free information concepts, are important! We gotta get these guys away from MS, who have them pretty well nailed down, except that hippies are fickle and don't have much of an attention span or much loyalty to anything tangible. Win 'em, capture their attentions, get 'em to write big grandiose essays to each other about how linux is really a philosophical journey! The practical results that will come from this are IMPORTANT.
Katz, Community and OSS (Score:1)
damon@3jane.net
14-year olds and stupidity (Score:1)
Stupidity may not be limited to the young, but informed, experienced inteligence is in whole (or damn near enough) limited to the older. You'll learn someday. Yes, even you, shall change your mind.
What a load of shit/shameless plug (Score:1)
I love this. What a classic. After weeks upon weeks of spewing out rubbish at slashdot, after being cajoled, threatened and begged to stop writing for slashdot, katz
1) Writes a book about his personal problems.
2) uses slashdot to help sell book.
and then, to add insult to injury
3) includes excerpt of the rubbish he's written on slashdot. In case anyone was wondering, the book is confirmed to be completely unrelated to computers, linux, or anything that someone on this site might care about, and is nothing but a long winded sob story.
My god this gives new meaning to the word shameless. Whatever else we may think of katz, we know he has balls.
Point-by-point response (Score:1)
Two flaws in your logic:
1- Actually PIMPS sell most whores, usually against their will. When our visits and attention is sold against our will, we are whored out.
2- Banner ads are not disguising as legitimate news stories. Most of us ignore the banner ads all together and look just at the stories. When the stories are masked ads themselves, what does that leave? The slashdot.org info-mercial network.
Yes, I'm sure you are wracked by grief. You'd love it if we abandoned this site in droves and began frequenting dabuzz.net.
Why would I want anyone to rush to DaBuzz.net? I don't cover much of the things you guys are interested in anyway, I've also barely posted any news lately at all. It makes a lot of sense for me to want to send thousands of people to a mostly stale site, you've caught on to my plan. You're pure genius.
Wrong again. You should probably see a shrink about your paranoia problem. Seriously.
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.
This sounds a lot like Saddam Hussein in 1990, declaring victory and pulling out of Kuwait. He's nuts, too
Hemos contended that there was no "pay off" for posting this story. Jon Katz's own post shows that this is blatantly untrue and shows the true movtive being the story's posting.
-----
Only 28% of slashdot readers use Linux or *nix, while 55% of them use Windows. How ironic.
ROB: something is wrong with your engine (Score:1)
Comments are not printing out right. When I clock on one I just get the index again.
Slashdotters need to grow up. (Score:1)
Thanx Jon :-) (Score:1)
While I am part geek, there are some other parts to me as well, including mountain climbing. So I will be buying your book, when I emerge from my current poverty .
I ve read some of John Ralston Saul also (whom Jon quoted), very interesting & insightful author, whom I meet once when he was out in New Zealand. Well, it s Friday night, so I am off to do other things. Thanx again & keep up the writing.
Contemporary Nihilism is meaningless.
subject clarification (Score:1)
Like i said, i'm not a programmer.. i was using syntax vaguely similar to Perl, if you must know-- and therefore yes, i should have put parentheses around the if conditional statement-- i haven't looked at Perl in a couple of months, and i don't really code. anyway--
I basically meant that a previous poster was implying/saying that because Katz wasn't a programmer/writing code or documentation, he was considered an outsider. the use of the ampersand (sp?) "&" was only because i ran out of space in the subject line, and couldn't spell out the 'and.'
Happy spamming.
--anneke
"help (Rob and) I pay rent. " (Score:1)
If at first you don't succeed ... (Score:1)
Try again. (Take your Linux box with you this time.)
Regards, Ralph.
Why the fuss? (Score:1)
Besides. Trappist Monks make the BEST beer in the world.
If only... (Score:1)
Nice work, John (Score:1)
Such frequent mistakes are a hallmark of your writing on Slashdot, and undermine your credibility as a professional writer. If something is really worth saying, it's worth taking the time to say it clearly.
Basically, if YOU don't take the time to read your own writing, why should I?
All that aside, good luck with the book!
Respectfully,
Kent
Darn if Katz doesn't grow on you! (Score:1)
Of course, he could just be a big dickhead.
*I* Like him. Elegance. (Score:1)
I can't see why Jon would provoke this kind of response. It's just not logical. He has been direct, open, and honest. He's bared his soul, and worked to do Good For All. For that, he has my respect.
I have more time for elegant writers than for mean coders.
Katz worship. (Score:1)
Katz can write; He does so - well. ALWAYS! YOU BOZOS CAN'T! He flows - you don't.
I'm tired; that's enough.
Neener...neener...neener (Score:1)
and considered opinions. Ones that show they've been tempered
with something approaching a life.
This idea that no one should profit from his own efforts and use
his own networks to sell goods made with his own hands and mind
is dubioius at best.
I'm sure that most , if not all, of the people posting on these boards
have incomes of some sort that allow them to have computers and
internet connections as well as the luxury to read and reply. This includes
students battening off their parents or other educational financial
services be they scholarships or jobs.
Why shouldn't Mr. Katz be allowed and even encouraged to sell
or promote his book through this and other venues. I am quite sure
that if anyone else here was in the same situation they would do the
same thing.
The anti-commericalism strain that stains the Net ignores the huge
amounts of money that subsidizes the Net and those who pretend
to work for nothing and live on nothing and nobody at the same time.
Look at it this way, if Katz's book is a hard cover and sells for $20.00
he gets about $3 per copy. If this site moves 1,000 copies of his book
(which I really doubt that it could on its best day) he makes $3,000 .
This may seem like a lot to the hard-core unemployed that infest this
board since they probably don't have two C notes to rub together,
but it is -- for a person with mature obligations and responsibilities --
a trivial amount.
What a load of shit/shameless plug (Score:1)
You both strike me as shameless shit-eating hypocrites who couldn't do
a lick of productive work if you both has a chain saw rammed up your butts and set on stun.
Get to work and quit dissing those that actually get some output out.
what ya doing whif your time?!! (Score:1)
What are we doing to promote this ideal?
Seens Katz has raised the bar a bit, huh.
good so far.. (Score:1)
It came from Amazon last night.
So far, i really like it.
It's not what i expected, but he's
a really good writer and keeps it
interesting. I hope you all read it.
Not too much about technology,
more about introspection and dealing
with the complexities that slowly start
to weigh down on us in life, about change;
a lot about change, and silence. Thats
as far as i've got. He's dealing with
silence.
If i was to offer any advice to Jon Katz,
I'de just tell him to give more details
about whats going on; his surroundings, the
current situation, etc. Sometimes it just
seems to dwell too long on change. Then again,
I'm 20, so maybe i need to wait a while to
get the point.
-Zebulun
Running to the mountain... (Score:1)
I just finished Katz's book. Here's my thoughts:
1. Go buy it.
2. Read from it.
3. Enjoy it.
4. Learn something from it.
'Twas an A+ read from someone who generally only gives C-'s.