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Salon on Bruce Perens 43

Zippy the Pinhead writes "Salon has responded with Slashdot-like speed to Bruce Perens' announcement with this article. Also, just below that item is an article entitled "Linux bandwagon starts to groan", about the flood(?) of Linux-port annoucements. "
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Salon on Bruce Perens

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    >>> "The Open Source certification mark has already been abused in ways I find unconscionable and that I will not abide." Perens declined to cite specific examples of such abuse.

    Why decline to cite specific examples when the issue is so important to the community?

    Does anyone have an idea what sort of abuse Bruce might be refering to here?

    gwk
  • Since you've read... http://x4.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=445570753

    Why It's Time to Talk About Writing Free Software Once Again

    I'm someone you've probably never heard of. You may know me as the
    primary author of some bits of software someone you might know might
    have heard of and which is available from some other people you
    probably haven't heard of, and as someone who's thrown in the odd
    bugfix on other software here and there, but if you've even used
    stuff I've done or fixed you probably used it without giving me a
    single thought. Still, I have to establish my credibility somehow.

    About a year ago, I watched with disbelief as "Open Source" began to
    happen, and then I jumped on the bandwagon as quickly as I could. We
    founded the Open Source Initiative as a sound career move that
    captured the zeitgeist and surfed the wave of breaking publicity that
    resulted from Netscape's sheer desperation for any form of strategy at
    all. Well, the world has certainly noticed Eric, and Eric has worked
    hard to achieve that for himself, at the obvious personal cost of his
    sanity.

    So, it's now time for the next stage: now that the world is watching
    Eric and we've discovered how ruthlessly egotistically self-promoting
    and increasingly odd he really is, it's time for us to explain that
    the idea isn't _just_ about Eric, that Eric is not really typical of
    us at _all_, and to get some much-needed distance between us and Eric
    pronto before he does us any more damage.

    We have to find another focal point to counter Eric. We need a
    solid and stable personality as a spokesperson, because the media
    thrives on personalities, and we needed that personality a week ago to
    prepare for Microsoft Refund Day.

    We don't have much choice in available people with a critical mass of
    media attention. Linus has a real job and is far too sensible to get
    involved in this. Alan Cox is a limey with a weird foreign accent most
    Americans just can't understand either. We'll have to build on the
    personality that we know we've got: Richard Stallman. At least he's
    American.

    Most hackers giggle when someone says that Free Software and Open
    Source are just two words for the same thing, because they can count
    and they can see four words. They can count and they can code. They're
    logical. Unfortunately, though, Open Source has de-emphasized the
    logical importance of writing code and raised expectations that other
    people will do that for you and then just give it to you.

    It's time for us to fix that. Richard must make it clear to the world
    via media attention that this free software is still important, that
    software like the increasingly renowned FSF Debian GNU/Linux would not
    be around without it, but that there's no such thing as a free lunch
    and we need more people that can actually code to write this stuff for
    nothing.

    Once _everyone_ is writing code for nothing, the no-free-lunch problem
    will eventually vanish - but that won't happen until we at least have
    people writing free documentation that teaches people how to write
    free code. Spread the word! Encourage real computer literacy! Write
    now!

    One of the unfortunate things about Open Source is that it
    overshadowed these important coding efforts with self-promotion
    efforts, and the Open Source people are so busy promoting themselves
    and taking credit that they've stopped coding. This is a net loss to
    the community, and is never fair on the people writing the code -
    although some may think Richard is a whacko and disagree with his
    belief that _all_ software should be free, you have to ask yourself:
    Just how much code have _they_ written and given away recently? How
    _dare_ they criticize?

    The Open Source Definition is entirely compatible with the Free
    Software Foundation's goals because it says it is, and a schism
    between the two groups should never have been allowed to develop, even
    though marketing considerations and personal self-interest meant that
    it was inevitable and everyone could see it coming. I objected to
    people doing self-promotion rather than writing code, but was not able
    to get the two parties - selfish marketers and selfless coders -
    together in common cause, because no-one would agree with me about
    anything.

    Another unfortunate fact is the certification mark dispute which has
    gone on between Software in the Public Interest and the Open Source
    Initiative for a whole year. That was entirely our fault, because we
    let Eric Raymond take ownership of that mark, and now we just can't
    get rid of him and get it back. The Open Source certification mark
    has already been abused in ways I find unconscionable and that I will
    not abide, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. Man, I'm
    pissed.

    Sadly, as I've always tended towards writing code and giving it away
    rather than concentrating on marketing, promoting and branding myself,
    I've lost touch with Eric because I'm no longer as important as him,
    and he's too busy to answer email that isn't inviting him to speak at
    events. He's completely out of control without my good advice. I mean,
    did you see that cape-and-added-penguins getup on Refund Day at
    Microsoft? He's going gaga with delusions of grandeur.

    If we leave Eric a bit longer to shoot himself convincingly in his
    public foot, gun nut that he is, and give Richard a decent haircut so
    he can't spend entire interviews looking for even more split ends
    instead of presenting logical arguments, Richard will be perceived as
    more mainstream than and definitely saner than Eric. At that point
    we'll have no trouble taking back the free software movement
    leadership in the public eye and going on from there to market
    _writing_ free code. And free documentation.

    Admittedly, doing this marketing will take some time away from writing
    code, but I think this is possible, that we can actually get the
    write-some-code-for-others bits emphasised, and I'm willing to
    sacrifice my important coding time for a worthy cause that might just
    also bring me into the public eye.

    Remember, it's only writing free code that matters, but making my
    career out of marketing the rising star of actually _writing_ free
    code is where I can make this important difference. And I'm not going
    to be marketing me. I'm going to be marketing Richard; he'll be the
    media star, and I'll simply be his manager and agent.

    We may have only just discovered that Eric can't market concepts
    without his own personal foibles and appalling dress sense messing up
    the message and getting in the way, but we've known that about Richard
    for years. Richard's not going to surprise us by changing his dogmatic
    stance now. He's a known quantity: a touchstone that we always know we
    can rely on. He's nuts, but at least he's consistent and predictable
    with it.

    Well, apart from that Tcl thing. And the don't-call-those-emacs-calls
    'win' break-everything thing. But those are merely details that are
    only of interest to a couple of programming minorities; far more
    people got peeved about how the Hacker's Dictionary turned out, so I
    think we still come out ahead with Richard.

    I've learned a lot about how and how not to do marketing from the open
    source effort, and I believe I'm the man to do this. If Noam Chomsky -
    consistent, predictable, obviously nuts - can make a successful career
    out of denigrating every existing political system and economy,
    there's definitely a bigger place in the public eye for Richard while
    he denigrates every existing economic method of software distribution.
    After all, more people use software than vote, right? Just count those
    Chinese and all their free software! Richard will be bigger than
    Chomsky, mark my words.

    I'll be working to promote Richard as someone that fits the definition
    of Free Software Spokesperson. I'll be managing and taking credit for
    his media appearances, much as I ironically failed to manage and take
    credit for Eric's. And is currently
    being reworked to reflect my new role.

    So, my question is: who's going to break this news to Richard?

    Thanks,

    Me.


    (ongoing spats in claiming leadership of the movement can be
    just as entertaining as watching Eric Raymond perform:

    http://x4.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=435811714

    or taking the mickey out of Jon Katz's many mistakes, for that
    matter.

    L.)
  • Anyone, and I mean *ANYONE* who thinks that Richard Stallman is a good advocate of "Open Source" is wrong. Just plain wrong.

    He's not. He's an advocate of GNU CopyLeft, and fuck all else, really. You're worried about people who seem strange in the public media, and you want to advocate Stallman? The man is practically a rabid dog when it comes to anything even *remotely* commercial, including the occasional rip on the idea of people getting paid to work on open source.

    Good grief. Few things could be as bad for the freedom of the movement as RS, who represents the Stalin of open source ideals.

    Find someone a bit more open-minded about the diversity *within* Open Source.
  • Here are the relevant bits of the GNU Manifesto. First, we see RMS noting that copyrights on books are different from copyrights on software:

    "The copyright system was created expressly for the purpose of encouraging authorship. In the domain for which it was invented--books, which could be copied economically only on a printing press--it did little harm, and did not obstruct most of the individuals who read the books. "

    Next, RMS talks about how programmers can make a living and still write free software:

    "There are plenty of ways that programmers could make a living without selling the right to use a program. This way is customary now because it brings programmers and businessmen the most money, not because it is the only way to make a living. It is easy to find other ways if you want to find them. Here are a number of examples.

    "A manufacturer introducing a new computer will pay for the porting of operating systems onto the new hardware... The sale of teaching, hand-holding and maintenance services could also employ programmers... People with new ideas could distribute programs as freeware, asking for donations from satisfied users, or selling hand-holding services."

    So, nothing less than the very GNU Manifesto says that selling teaching services is OK - selling hand-holding is OK - and copyrights on books are OK. So why do the flipping purists have their shorts in a bind?

    One can only assume it is, at root, an ego problem. Their movement has been yanked from under their feet, and the only recourse they have is to throw a fit over what are, in essence, relatively minor tresgressions of their original vision.

    And the fact that Perens has hurt the movement with this kind of fuss is apparently a non-factor. For purists, if the movement isn't pure in their vision, it doesn't count. So one cannot go quietly into the night - one must publicly announce one's departure, gain attention, throw tantrums, send global e-mails, etc.

    With these kinds of moral leaders we'll soon be back to 1989 - Windows as king, the FSF as a minor speck in the eye of 100% proprietary software. But at least their movement will be pure.

  • I can't wait until Hollywood catches on to the story here: a PR-flack wannabe in charge of promoting split-ends-obsessed Stallman, trying desparately to make him a bigger star than Chomsky, periodically flashing to nightmares of a gun-waving ESR doing his User Friendly obiwan shtick, causing said flack to wake in cold sweat.

    Who would you cast?

  • But O'Reilly's role in the open-source movement has long riled some hardcore free software hackers, who perceive O'Reilly & Associates as profiting unfairly from free software by selling "non-free" manuals.

    Um ... wasn't part of the point of free software that you could still sell support? I personally consider a well-written manual as support, so I'm not sure why it's not right for O'Reilly to sell manuals that they've contracted people to write.

  • * spreaded the false news about the KDE free Qt foundation being unexistant.

    * took off from SPI with the Open Source Trademark under his arm which the SPI says he didn't have the right to do.

    * if he has indeed called Tim O'reilly a parasite, worked for a parasite

    * announced he was quitting to the SPI (but didn't quit really, or not right then)

    * quitted from debian (and told rather unpleasant things to them, which sadly I can't quote)
    He seems to have joined again?

    * announced he was founding a Red Hat based distribution when quitting from debian.

    And this is only what *I* remember.

    I have no quarrel with Mr. Perens, but I would take anything he says with a grain of salt a little larger than the usual one.

  • I dare you to phone me and call me a dumbfuck in my ear. 1-800-233-7351.

    But you won't, because you're an anonymous coward, coward.
    -russ
  • Andrew's piece is pretty fair.

    I like O'Reilly books and I have quite a few of them. That's not where my complaint is.

    The main problem I see is that while we need people like Eric Raymond to speak to the non-hackers, hackers need to stay in control of the work they produced. There are a few ways in which hackers are losing control:

    We no longer control our information sources. Hacker-produced web sites, news groups, and mailing lists are being displaced by commercial news sources and book publishers. That would be OK, except they seem to want to control the information, too. That part isn't acceptable. Thus, I am working on ways for hackers to take back the lead in providing information about free software, using the power of the internet and free software.

    One person who I feel is mainly interested in profiting from the community is posing as a leader of the community. Most free software merchants know better than to do this. I like the honest way that Bob Young presents himself as someone who profits from free software and returns value to it, but isn't one of the leaders. I think he's a great example for other free software merchants to emulate.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • I think Bob would rather run his company, but yes, he makes a good spokesperson for free software. He knows better than to pose as a leader of the free software community while he is also someone who makes profit from it - that would be a conflict of interest, and Bob's smart enough to avoid them.

    Bob has shown that he can find the balance between profit from the community and returning value to the community. That's important.

    There are various kinds of relationships between businesses and the free software community, and they can be classed into Benefactors, Symbiotes, and Parisites. These are three labels on a scale that measures what they take vs. what they give back. Benefactors license free software without really caring if they profit from our community or not. Lots of free software authors belong in that category. Symbiotes give and take equally, Red Hat is a good example of that IMO. Parisites take more than they give, even when they are providing great products that are critically needed. They could be cured of this distinction by taking some Bob Young lessons.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • Don't forget that you are insulting people, not a magazine.


    Andrew Leonard seems to be a nice guy and does the best job he can. He also seems to be sincerely sympathetic to our community.


    Bruce

  • I think that the essence of the complaint against O'Reilly isn't about all his books. It's about the core documentation for a Free Software project, specifically Perl. rms' stance is that the core documentation for free software should also be free (in the same way.) Selling tutorials, cookbooks, and learn-in-24-minutes books under more restrictive models would still be acceptable.
  • I don't know if you're still following this thread, but I could be interested; please email me.

    It occurs to me that other aspects of "World Domination" include training end-users to work in Free Software environments. Perhaps that would be a good project to coordinate - developing GNU training materials and courseware.

  • The best advocates of free software are the users themselves. RMS,ESR,Bruce,or anyone else isn't going to give the GNU/Linux demo to your boss. You,the user, are.

    As for media representation, while I'd prefer the community to be the focus, but the press _have_ to have a spokesman. What time of person, and who that should be, needs to be addressed RSN.

    RMS accepts other licenses as free. He just thinks that the GPL is the best one, which isn't surprising considering it represents his vision. Often times RMS will go to what some people view as an extreme on an issue. I might not agree with everything he says, but I pay attention to _what_ he is talking about and form an opinion on it. RMS is invaluable to the free software community because he stirs up debate on issues that someone with less conviction might accept. He's an uneasy conscience that we might not agree with, but we certainly should listen to and reflect how we feel on the topics he raises. People who dismiss RMS as a loony should not be as quick to dismiss what he is taking issue to as they are to call names.

    If you're looking for people who look past the license and more at the freedom of the software, look for people like Bruce and the legal eagles in the Debian group. They have repeatedly resolved issues with software that was "open-source" but not free. Look at their work on Zope, for example. They thought that the forced recognition of their product was an acceptable clause on their license. Bruce and the Debian people disagreed and gave arguments for their disagreement. The whole issue was resolved and now the clause has been dropped. Textbook diplomacy.

  • Dear AC,

    Can you read? No? Just basic english? You think so? So go here [fsf.org] and spend some time leraning about the subject you so forcefully babble about.

    Now go up in this same page and read the transcript of Bruce's post in the comment "Why It's Time to Talk About Writing Free Software (Score:2)".

    Then stop suffering your ignorance upon us:

    Anyone, and I mean *ANYONE* who thinks that Richard Stallman is a good advocate of "Open Source" is wrong. Just plain wrong.

    Anyone, I mean *ANYONE* who thinks Richard Sallman would even consider being an "Open Source" advocate has probably been away from the planet during the past year.

    He's not. He's an advocate of GNU CopyLeft, and fuck all else, really. You're worried about people who seem strange in the public media, and you want to advocate Stallman?

    I fail to remember the name of your last code contribution to the communitary pool, AC. Please enlighten me before barking about programmmers and ideals far beyond your level of understanding.

    The man is practically a rabid dog when it comes to anything even *remotely* commercial, including the occasional rip on the idea of people getting paid to work on open source.

    I dont even think this plain LIE must be answered. Check the link above.

    Good grief. Few things could be as bad for the freedom of the movement as RS, who represents the Stalin of open source ideals.

    Against the enlighted enterprise CEOs, the freedom fighters of modern day, I guess. And again, stop using Stallman name and the expression Open Source in the same phrase. Learn to say Free Software. Learn to live with it.
  • I was replying to the AC above (the one the threading of my post indicates I am replying to, not the one immediately above my post).

    Does that sound like satire?

    What is posted here is not the essay by Bruce
    Perens, but a satire of it.


    I am well aware of that, sir.

    Before you go insulting people you know nothing about and telling them they can't read

    Hard to know (or to want to know) someone who wont bother to back a comment with a name.
  • Apologies accepted, no offense taken.... :))

    And I don't really have anything against ACs. I was just refering to the original poster (the AC you were NOT defending).

    Cheers

  • Microsoft could do some major damage to Linux and its users, indeed. Suppose they decided to come out with their own distribution, drop in a win32 emulation layer that'll play the office suite with a non-X gui, and charge 50 bucks for it?

    They'd take over the linux desktop market, would be able to control the linux threat to win9x, and could make corporate types happy with something like "Certified NT Compatible" linux.

    Evil.
  • As a long time reader of Salon (since around their first issue or so) I must take issue with your statement. Of all the many sources of reading material online (websites, USNET, mailing lists) Salon is consistently the most interesting, most amusing, and one of the best written things online. Heck, they are far better than most magazines off-line.

    Just my two cents.

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