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No Money for Monument to Alan Turing? 70

Posted by Hemos from the ashamed-of-ourselves dept.
Anonymous Coward writes "The BBC reports of a project to build a sculpture in honor of computing pioneer Alan Turing that's not doing too well, because attempts to raise money from industry have been fruitless so far... The BBC Story carries more information about the lack of support for this statue by anyone. "
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No Money for Monument to Alan Turing? More

No Money for Monument to Alan Turing?

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  • Re:good (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A bronze statue will last for hundreds of years. $500 computers from your local shrinkwrap shop will last all of 6 months and then be complete garbage.

    I think the statue is a great idea.

  • Re:what good is it? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Turing's sexuality does matter: he was prosecuted for homosexual activity, and sentenced to an early form of chemical castration - and he committed suicide shortly afterwards.

    If he hadn't been gay (or, more to the point, had not been persecuted for being gay) his life would probably have been very different, not to mention a good deal longer.

    Turing was responsible for a large slice of the theoretical groundwork of computer science, and some of the most profound pure mathematics of the 20th century. If that's not enough, his work on the Enigma code made a huge contribution to the Battle of the Atlantic, and it would be hard to think of any other individual who contributed more to the Allied war effort.

    He deserves his statue, dammit.

    R.E.

  • Open Source Monument (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    OK, crazy idea, but are there any Open Source crypto projects underway currently? Maybe we could get an Open Source crypto product named after him?

    Seems appropriate.

    Maybe FSF could help us? I think Mr. Stallman might be sensitive to the question of being written out of history and willing to help.

    In any case, this is absolutely scandelous. Gates, McNealy, Ellison and all the big rich geeks should be ashamed of this.

  • Re:Turing Monumnet Proposal (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Great idea, but an infinitely long tape would require a fair bit of bronze....
  • I completed my college humanities requirement writing a paper on AT... He was a geek and a homosexual, thus an outcast, and one day he snapped and killed himself. One of the greatest minds of our century was worn down by the agents of the very government he saved during WWII so much that he ended his own life. Chalk up another victim of Katz' "Hellmouth".
  • Posted by jgeduldig:

    How many monuments have been erected to convicted homosexuals? Is it really surprizing that no large corporations are leaping at the opportunity to finance a monument to one now? If the English legal system ever apologized, maybe that would be a first step in honoring the man.
  • Perhaps we should design a large, detailed statue... in VRML.

    A pigeon could then sit at the keyboard and try to determine whether it was a real statue or not.
  • I think you got it wrong. As far as I remember, he wasn't caught with anyone. He went to police to report a burglary. And Turing thought that thte burblar might have been one them he had shared his bed. And Turing didn't realize that homosexuality was still a matter that had much negative feelings. He though that they were going to make homosexuality accepted within few years.

    I cannot recall the age of the man he identitified as the men he had sex with, but my expression is that he was an adult. Especially as he went to prison because of homosexuality. On the other hand, they offered chemical castration for Turing -- so that he would not have go to prison with ordinary criminals.
  • Now that is a good idea . . . especially after they put the stained-glass Oscar Wilde in Westminster Abbey for the same reason. :)

    Do they ever name bills after people over there? Here in the U.S. we ocassionally append nicknames, e.g. for the famous "Brady bill" on gun control, but the bill itself doesn't carry the celebrity's name.

    Just curious.
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  • sounds like a quite the lush!

    No, he was just gay. Far from partying, Turing had an interesting sense of what constituted a good time. One of his fav games was a version of chess where you had to run all the way around the house between moves.

    Contrary to what other people have been saying, I think the plastic arts still have a place in the world. ;) I'd like to see a statue of Turing made, and I'd be willing to contribute a few bucks^H^H^H^Hpounds to make it happen. It would be even cooler if they'd put a little prototypical Turing machine with a tape next to him. :)
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  • Okay..
    this really stinks because this guy ROCKS. I just did a really long research paper on him, and he really deserves a statue. I really hope there is more interest in the statue, even though i doubt there will be. He was really smart and had a lot of potential but it got cut short by hatred... anyway, My two cents. I wish i could help...

    M.
  • So, if you had two teletype links and at the end of one link was Turing and at the end of the other was the statue, would you be able to tell them apart?
  • I like that. A memorial website - with enough
    money to convert it to the Next Big Technology
    when that comes along.



    BTW - there is a small memorial to Turing on
    CMU campus. It's a granite bench, roughly
    looking like this:




    =====================
    = T U R I N G =
    =====================
    =R=...............=W=
    =E=...............=R=
    =A=...............=I=
    =D=...............=T=
    ===...............=E=
    ===...............===



  • Still an outsider (Score:3)

    by Ray Dassen ( 3291 ) on Thursday April 29, 1999 @08:24AM (#1910832) Homepage
    Turing was an outsider during his life, and unfortunately still seems to be.

    To those who are not familiar with his contributions to computing and codebreaking, I'd strongly recommend the biography by Andrew Hodges, Alan Turing: The Enigma.

  • That's a shame, but as a personal monument to Alan Turing, I named my cat Turing. (My teddybear is named Babbage)

  • And I thought the only British public acknowledgement of AT was a small blue plaque on a building I pass every day (near Maida Vale in London) recording the fact he was born there.
    That in itself was a real shock - as a good Manchester lad myself I'm astonished to find that Alan Turing was in fact a "Southern Jessie" !
  • I would think that a lack of support exists because of two reasons

    1) who the heck is Alan Turing. I mean, _I_ know he conceptualized the idea of the universal machine. the one that does anything and everything. but what about the average joe, which there are more of than techies, probably isn't going to want to support this guy because they don't know what the universal machine is all about, eVEN if they use one.. the concept is pretty confusing but nevertheless, it is an interesting one..

    2) why would ANYONE want to build a statue of Alan Turing? You ask any marketing person.. anyone to mention a name that they associate with computers, a name, a person's name.. and chances are, they'll say someone like Gates or Jobs or Moore.. hmmm, well, the average joe might think, "Why not build a a statue of him, or him?" I use a marketing person in my example because I know of a couple and they really piss me off because all they do all they is sit around and praise windows and how it's awesome this and awesome that.. and how they can go work for microsoft to make big bucks.. fair enough, big bucks motivate.. though I personally couldn't care less what they think..

    But the point I'm trying to make is that chances are, unless your a nerd, or a geek, or a computer aficionado (oooh, did I spell that right?) chances, are you probably never knew who Alan Turing was or what the universal machine is.. and if I was put in that situation, I'd probably click the "back" button...

  • ada (Score:1)

    by cob2k25 ( 6962 )
    and please don`t forget her!

    if only i was born 100 years ago... :)


    cob2k25

  • good (Score:1)

    by aphr0 ( 7423 )
    This is a waste of money that could be much better spent on buying computers for kids and advancing areas that Turing researched. Since I have no idea what exchange rates are, just figure 1 us dollar for every 1 british pound, totaling US$55k. At $500 per computer (they are very cheap nowadays), that's 110 computers. Which would advance society or Turing's ideas more: a bigass motionless statue of some guy no one outside of scientific and computer circles know or 110 computers put into good use by curious young minds?

  • Re:good (Score:1)

    by aphr0 ( 7423 )
    It's not the computers that are permanent, it's the knowledge gained from using them at an early age. The same way kids can learn more than 1 language easily while growing up could be used for computers. If children grow up around computers and learn that mode of communication, it would eliminate alot of the "techno-fear" that seems to grip many adults these days. Sure a statue would let people know who alan turing is, but I doubt many people would care. They just want to go home to their tvs and watch the latest episode of the simpsons.

    Kids are just masses of equal parts energy and curiosity; if you give them something, they'll have it played with, torn apart, and figured out faster than you can imagine. I think if computers are put forth in a responsible fashion (ie. adult supervision without setting ultra totalitarian rules) would open up a world of possibilities.

  • Re:good (Score:1)

    by aphr0 ( 7423 )
    I'm not so sure people would really pay much attention to turing's advances in computing theory. Try to get the averge joe off the street interested in neural networks and see what happens. Just as I'm sure most slashdot readers don't pay much attention to archeological findings, most non slashdot types wouldn't give much feeling towards alan turing. (note my use of 'most' and not 'all')
  • Just like the military, corps too are scared to assoicate themselves with homosexuals and accept the fact these people are part of what makes this world tick. It's silly how people still call him obscene names many years after his death.
    --
  • England has a nasty habit of punishing its national treasures. Marlborough, Wilde, Turing, Churchill, the list goes on...

    (an expat Brit who thinks that a statue is not a bad idea, especially if you have to look at a queer pub at the same time!)
  • Especially given that the famous "Turing Test" was framed in his original paper in Mind as a gender test rather than an intelligence test, I suspect there's a fair possibility he was transsexual, as opposed to "just gay". Ironically he was sentenced to being treated with estrogen for his "crime" of being homosexual, and eventually comitted suicide.
  • Ada Lovelace...and Grace Hopper as well.

    Of course, Cap'n Grace has a guided missile crusier named after her.

  • Why pour tons of money to put up some big hunk of metal in the guy's image? Why not set up a scholarship fund or something?

    Excellent idea! I've used Apple's feedback page [apple.com] to recommend that they consider setting up the website mentioned in the BBC story to collect money for both purposes:
    A BBC story [bbc.co.uk] I reached by way of Slashdot [slashdot.org] indicates that you are considering setting up a secure website to allow for credit card donations towards a statue of Alan Turing. I would urge you to do this, and I would also urge that any monies collected in excess of those needed go to sponsor a scholarship in his name. As Guy Kawasaki would say, "Right thing. Right way."

    Even if it only helped on kid a year go to college, it would be a lot more useful than a statue.

    Don't denigrate the usefulness of a statue. If artfully executed, the statue might add to its surroundings simply by being there. By simply existing, it may pique the curiosity of a passerby; they might stop, read the plaque, and learn something of the world they didn't know before.

    --j, who believes that knowledge is its own end.
  • The screen before you, the keyboard and the place you are now at, the Internet. What a monument to all outsiders! Alan Turing would rather see you with a personal computer and logging onto the Internet than any money going to a sculpture. He'd want us to spend the money on faster access, more bandwidth and a better OS. Alan Turing and all outsiders love to see their name mentioned on Internet sites, than a sculpture. Keep Liberty alive through your actions of freedom, if you want another monument besides the Digital Revolution, perhaps your trying to reach the wrong people. I don't think people remember Lincoln because of the sculpture of him in Washington DC. thanks for your time, ~g.
  • The man he pled guilty to having relations with was nineteen, not fourteen, according to Turing's biography.
  • Why should this project stand or fall on contributions from American software companies? As the article states, one could make a compelling case that Alan Turing "contributed more than any individual" to defeating the Geramns. And how did official Britain repay him for saving their country?

    They publicly humiliated him. They chemically castrated him. They drove him to suicide.

    And then there's that hideous postage stamp...

    The House of Commons is supposed to vote soon to harmonize the age of consent rule for gays with the one for heterosexuals. They should take the opportunity to redress the wrong done to the old law's most prominent victim.

    It wouldn't be enough, but it would be a start.
  • One point of a monument is that it it has presence and permenance. 110 $500 computers are far from permenant.

  • This is a waste of money that could be much better spent on buying computers for kids and advancing areas that Turing researched.

    In a perfect world...

    Since I have no idea what exchange rates are, just figure 1 us dollar for every 1 british pound

    1.5 dollars to the pound. (not that it matters)

    Which would advance society or Turing's ideas more: a bigass motionless statue of some guy no one outside of scientific and computer circles know or 110 computers put into good use by curious young minds?

    You've just answered your own question. A 'bigass motionless stature' of some guy no one knows. *That's* the point. How many people would pick up a book about this man; and compare that with the number of people who would walk past this statue and read the plaque..

    Big corperations(sp?) could easily spare an extra 55k pounds to donate a few computers as well, if they felt like it. It's all about marketing and if they have something to gain.

    If the can gain something, they will; if they don't, they won't.

  • 70k readers * $1 = $70k , enough for a statue + a scholarship fund.

    Get Cmdr Taco to post a story about a web site that takes credit cards I'll donate a dollar.
  • It's sixteen for hetrosexual sex, and for lesbians - technically there's no actual law, Queen Victoria wouln't sign the bill becuase she didn't believe that lesbian's existed - however, presently it's 18 for male homosexual sex.

    This is soon to change, at present the house of lords is crushing the bill, but they'll be gone soon, the undemocratic inbred fuckwits.


    Mind you, anal sex is only legal in Britain if your gay - so they get something back.

    Mark.
  • I will set up an escrow account for Slashdotters who would like to funnel money my way. Maybe if everyone who reads Slashdot donated $5, we could get the statue erected and add prestige to this forum. :)

    Or, maybe, it would be better if Rob or Hemos would do so. At any rate, email me if you're interested. I think it'd be a hoot. :)

    --Corey
  • Now if they wanted to set up a trust that will maintain in perpetuity a server dedicated to Turing, that might be something to think about.

    Kaa
  • A society that only does 'useful' things would be a horrible place to live in.

    Kaa
  • Well actually isn't there a monument to Oscar Wilde?

  • If kids see a big hunk of metal in the shape of Alan Turing, perhaps they'd be intrigued enough to find out some more information about the guy. If you spark interest in the right kids, you just might end up with better candidates for college scholarships than without the statue. Just a thought.
  • Fair point - except for Churchill. He was complete scum who once wanted to order the Army to fire upon hundreds of Welsh coal miners because the had the gall to strike.
  • Even without his contribution to the war, Turing should be honored in every darn CS department - American or not. I'm actually stunned that they've received no sponsorship. Christmas!, even if only for the PR. Gr.

    my .02
    Quux26

  • I was watching a show on the History Channel last night about the history of the computer, and not a single mention of Turing was made in the entire hour. This bothers me greatly. That a man who contributed so much should be written out of the history of the field is a crime. As for a statue, though - what a total waste of money! Statues of important people are so 19th century. The way to remember people is through the history books, not through big hunks of metal.
  • Couldn't have been the same show, then - the show was an episode of "Modern Marvels" or something like that. This show only talked about breaking code for about 5 minutes, mainly to mention how Colossus was arguably the first computer, and they didn't give the names of any of the people who worked on it.
  • I think people are making far too much of the issue of Turing's sexuality.

    I think the attitude here is probably the same at a lot of software companies - what good is a statue?

    Why pour tons of money to put up some big hunk of metal in the guy's image? Why not set up a scholarship fund or something? Even if it only helped on kid a year go to college, it would be a lot more useful than a statue.

    --

  • Turing's monument should be a long bronze tape marked off into cells, each of which can be toggled between two states.
    Then all monuments will be possible.

  • A statue is worthwhile (Score:3)

    by alistair ( 31390 ) <alistair.hotldap@com> on Thursday April 29, 1999 @09:53AM (#1910863)
    I think a statue would be worthwhile for a number of reasons. Britain has a number of memorials to Generals and other wartime
    "heroes", it would be nice to honour a man who's contribution to a war was in the application of intelligence rather than high
    explosive, something which is particularly relevant to the current war is the Balkans. It would also serve to remind us of how
    shamefully he was treated by the British authorities, the law changing the homosexual age of consent has not been passed yet,
    and the recent debate in the hose of Lords shows that homophobia is alive and well in the UK almost 50 years after his death.

    As for American corporations contributing to the statue, it is worth remembering that IBM, Microsoft, Oracle etc. employ
    thousands of people in the UK who make a contribution to their profits, it is not unreasonable to ask then to contribute to this.

    But perhaps the most fitting monument would be to cast a 12 inch bronze figure and put on the inscription "Funded by the UK
    Computer Industry". From Alan Turing to Frank Whittle, Britain has a long tradition of producing fine inventors and then
    persecuting or ignoring then. It's a tradition we could do without.
  • I would give money for a statue, but something I would like even more (and give more money to) would be to campaign for the British government to posthumously rehabilitate him. The way they treated him was shameful. I encourage people to visit the Alan Turing Web Page [turing.org.uk].
  • hmmm a bronze statue is so terribly staid. how about burning an image of the guy on intel motherboards or something a little more 'with the times'. statues are so '1886'!

    or seeing as he's such a big war hero, maybe we could get NATO to name a tactical strike after him -- "operation turing" has a nice ring to it.

    i liked the quote:
    "It's got the university science buildings...on one side and its got all the gay bars on the other side, where apparently he spent most of his evenings."

    sounds like a quite the lush! i wonder what he'd think of sexbots and teledildonics?
  • Although we have important pioneers since Babbage & Ada, I'd bet the guys responsible for 90% of what we know as computer science are still alive :) so that's why there's no bronze for them.

    But when Don Knuth, Dijkstra, Hoare, Kay, [insert favorite here -- Linus?] are dead, I want big statues for them!
  • Near where I work, in Manchester, there's "Alan Turing Way". The pity of it is - it runs through some of the most derelict land in the UK. There's also a cycle velodrome (newish) that nobody goes to by the road.

    I find it amazing that British computer companies (such that are left) can't see their way to releasing a few bob for some sort of lasting memorial.

  • I saw the same special, and I recall Turing being mentioned at least once. IIRC, they even mentioned his persecution and suicide in one of the interviews. The show focused almost entirely on the general effort to break codes, and didn't mention many people at all by name.
  • But the point I'm trying to make is that chances are, unless your a nerd, or a geek, or a computer aficionado (oooh, did I spell that right?)

    Yes, you did, but "your" is solely a possessive pronoun. You want "you're", the contraction for "you are". Your sentence will compile, but it results in a nasty logic error. :-)
  • Summary to his conviction for having a homosexual relationship, Turing was forced to undergo hormonal therapy that was akin to torture, making his life painful and miserable and certainly contributing to the feelings that led to his suicide.
  • Isn't worshipping the past one of the things that makes other fields faulter and stagnate? Sure, we shouldn't forget how cool people like Turing and Ada and Pascal were, but thats no reason to build metal idols for them.

    I'd hate to think that somewhere down the line, some government would re-allocate better-spent money to build statues of Gates or Steve Case (not that they have any big coolness factor) just because someone thought we should remember their contributions to the technology field.

  • Why aren't the winners of the ACM's Turing Award ever announced on the national news? Given that the Nobel winners are always announced and that the news organizations are constantly running articles on computer issues and businesses, it seems like they'd give the Turing Award some coverage....

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