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Hellmouth Website 130

Posted by Roblimo from the high-school-horrors dept.
Lavos writes "Seems that Cliff Bleszinski has started a website to share even more school horror stories. It's 'partially' inspired by Jon Katz's essay " (Lavos is one of many who wrote in with this lead.)
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Hellmouth Website? More

Hellmouth Website?

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  • I'd be curious to know how much space an article takes when in the database and how much space it takes on disk in SHTML format. If SHTML tends to be smaller by anything more than a trivial ammount (and I expect that it does), then it has everything to do with saving disk space.

    However, I do think it's cool that you've worked out the frequency of comment posting for slashdot :)
  • SHTML means server-parsed HTML. You can put in magic tags in SHTML and the server will interpret them (e.g. run scripts, include files, etc) and feed you the resulting HTML. It's not possible to get the 'raw' text of a server-parsed document per se, because the server gives you an interpreted version.
  • I agree. Competitive sports have no rightful place in education.

    Are you mad?!

    Let's see what competitve sports teach... winning fairly, losing well, social/team involvment, excercise, hand-eye coordination, physical training...

    Competitive sports are very important to a rounded education. It's when you get Billy Bob Football player and his football-or-die coach together that things get troublesome.

    Everything in moderation.
  • The only reason I bring this up is because me and my best friend, Dead Republican [nai.net], were just talking about this the other day. He wrote a song called "Come and Get Yours" on his first album and he's working on a followup to that song in light of the recent incidents. Check it out on his website. I'm not allowed to link the song directly here but it's in mp3 on the Dead Republican [nai.net] page on my site.

    "The lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths."
  • Well, I'm surprised to hear that high school (around here :secondary education), appears to be _such_ a torture for so many people in the US. I enjoyed high school, and it's the same for the vast majority of people I know. The targeted and persistent physical abuse that many students seem to be victim of is pretty much absent in this country. I was wondering why it's like this in America. My guess is it's due to movies, TV, and -generally everything fiction- making violence and what is normally considered bad behaviour appear acceptable and even desirable. Yes?
  • Nope. It wasn't in the UK. Although born in the UK, I lived nearly all my life in Mauritius, tiny tropical island in the Indian Ocean.

    Incidentally, I'm currently studying at a university in Britain, and I can tell you it's not a place I would like to spend my whole life in. Discounting the dreadful weather (compared to sunny Mauritius) and awful stacked-aginst-one-another houses (in London), it's the whole rotten culture that gets to me. The media is (in general) invasive, hard-nosed, downright unethical in some cases, and worst of all, omnipresent. You can't escape it. They basically promote a mentality of agression and intolerance, especially between men and women. This is especially obvious in the adverts. From what I've seen and heard, all tends to indicate that it's much worse in the States.


  • It was in Mauritius. Never heard of it eh? It's in the Indian Ocean, and if you want to locate it on a map, get hold of a magnifier, it's so damn tiny.I quit school less than four years ago.

    Ah, another thing. Find out what Mark Twain (allegedly) said about Mauritius: it might explain a lot of things.


  • After reading through the post, the motley responses, and the two mentioned sites, I have concluded that while Cliffy B.'s approach may not be the "appropriate" one, it certainly is a "great leap forward." Why? Well, I can't claim that I was abused, persay, in school, but I certainly empathize with those of you who cowered in the corner due to "undue attention" (a euphemism for not wanting to get your behind kicked into outer space). I received my fair share (and one-third more, I believe) of butt-kicking (my behind still aches), but I have rebounded (somewhat). I'm still bitter over the thirteen years I wasted in public education, but heck, North Carolina *is* ranked 49th in the nation for public education, right?! ;-)

    Perhaps what gets to me is the fact that the myriad of responses here on /. have blasted Cliffy B.'s attempt at harnessing chaos. Nothing irks me more than blundering geeks who cannot express themselves succinctly (distinct irony here, eh?). Most of the responses here bitch about the lack of pretty colors and round shapes in HellMouth.org, but who really cares? The site accomplishes its mission: "to get the word out." One doesn't need a Macromedia site to spread the word!

    The short and sweet of my response: I applaud Cliffy B.'s valiant attempt to persuade us to jettison some of our baggage. Perhaps an administrator or one of those who tormented us will happen across the site and feel a twinge of guilt (yeah, right).

    To those of you who don't believe: f* you. Have a nice day.
  • Anyway, there's a "Dylan/Eric fan club" on Yahoo! that is very much like this site...
  • That doesn't work when entire classrooms of students are either participating or watching the "festivities." I would have loved to pound my attackers senseless in high school, but you know it's only going to cause more trouble than it's worth when your instructor is watching and isn't lifting a finger to help.

  • Its not just ugly, it looks like someone's "I like Quake" site. If there is going to be real progress made as a result of telling these stories, then it has to be done in a more somber way - it has to grab and keep the attention of those who *need* to know this stuff: administrators, legislators, parents, etc.
  • ...this will develop into a site with a sense of humor, because that's one of the best responses you can have to the adults in a school who make your life miserable.

    People throughout this discussion are saying 'shit happens, they need to stop whining.'

    Unless you aren't paying taxes, and never plan to send your kids into the public school system, you should be very, very concerned. After four years in the army, I found the school I was working at to be much more addicted to authoritarian nonsense than all but my drill sergeants from basic training and one really rotten commander I drove for briefly until he fired me for 'smiling too much.' No one in the army, for instance, ever told me 'because I said so' was a reason. It's even considered bad form.

    The high school, on the other hand, was a different story.

    I'd sit kids down, get their referral forms, and go to enter them in the database, and I'd see 'defiance of authority' as the offense they committed. The question that always came to mind was 'Well, was the authority being legitimately invoked?' I knew of one teacher who'd call kids 'trifling idiots' then boot them out of class for telling him it was wrong to say that. That was 'defiance of authority.'

    It seems that if we're going to hope to produce children that eventually amount to a thing, and who can participate in a democratic society with any ability or usefulness, we're going to need to get it through the heads of insecure adults that those kids are going to have to be allowed to protest them from time to time, and be gently taught the limits of that protest, and how to discern and deal with occasions when an authority figure is wrong. If we can't do this, it won't matter if the crypto's free and the guns are plentiful, because no one will care to use them in defense of liberties that will have ceased to matter. There's no need for a Big Brother when the population is self-pacified from an inability to think critically and occasionally argue, impolite as it may be, with someone who's claim to 'right' is never questioned.

    It's fashionable among some to imply that speaking out against injustice is whining, or a sign of weakness. If anyone's weak, though, it's the ones who never develop the moral courage to say a thing while people in authority abuse their positions and others without recrimination.

    I'll take these 'whiners' over the characterless sheep any day.


    ----------
    mphall@cstone.nospam.net

  • Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog. Especially if the person wanting to kick your ass is used to those jock-fights; you know, where they push each other a few times then everyone breaks it up. One good hit, to a vital spot, and they fold like origami. The same thing happened to me a dozen times in high school. I kept messing them up - usually by 1, actually fighting back (like, throwing a real punch) and 2, fighting dirty (oh look, a chair...) and it worked like a charm. They kept wanting to kick my ass, though. They never stopped.
  • I remember being taunted by one jock in school...
    I finally snapped after 1 month, smashed his head through my locker in front of his friends.. when the principal said anything to us in his office I said... "keep him away from me or I'll do it again, I'm sick of his crap" (yelling this at the principal as he wouldnt stop ranting)

    he left me alone (and his friends) for the next year... then he smeared himself all over the pavement on his new motorcycle (No tears from me)

    the trick is to beat the hell outta your tourmenter... Adreneline is a wonderful tool... and remember ... a nice hefty knee to the groin will take out ANYBODY!

    Note: this has been the only person I have ever hit.. from then on... noone would even think of bugging me...

    If you walk like a victim you are the victim...
    respond like a vigilante once and they will not try to victimize you.
  • Prozac? ta hell with prozac...
    I was thinking Lithium and other heavy drugs...
    Put them in a comatose state and all will be fine...

    All kidding aside...

    There is alot more to this than drug them up....
    How about anger management for the jocks,trenchcoats,buzzheads,worms,nerds,dweebs?

    how about some serious help for them?
    Nahhh... they're "normal" let them be....
    (Normal kids dont torment, like the idea of killing, or kill people... Phycopaths do these things.... it's simple..)

    Now, if they are pushed to feeling like they have to kill to protect themselves? that is dilliousionment and acute paranoia brought on by many things... and it NEEDS to be treated.
    and if the cause is external you have to REMOVE the cause (Put the jocks in a room and remove all the air... JOKING.. I hate jocks to begin with... mindless morons they are)

    the whole key is to eliminate the school officials that Yell and scream, and put someone in there that will actually care about and help these kids...

    You NEVER see a shooting at a private school.... I wonder why....
  • wait a minute... everyone hated you?
    this is a typical paranoia behaivoir. I'm sorry but the concept of this dead on line with a mential disorder.. my son,12, is just now normal.. I have him on Lithium and several other heavy drugs to keep his paranoia down... without his drugs he is highly phycotic, under the bed screaming that everyone is tryingto kill him/ hates him.. it starts mild... everyone at school hated him... first the kids... then the teachers...

    NOTE: there might be a few that hate you... but the majority couldn't care that you existed or are even breathing let alone take the time to hate you.

    please... seek some professional help, you will feel much better if you do.
  • Well except for the authors story, every other one screams that these people needed some serious phycological help and didn't get any.. I saw tales of obsessive behaivoir (My friends beat me up story) extremely low self esteem in every story (the direct fault of their parents or lack of parents) and many other serious problems.. The fun part is that these students that need the help (the outcasts as well as the brain-dead jock) will never ever get the mental health care they need, why? because mental health isn't real.. if you arent mentally handicapped then nothing's wrong with you? how about the emotionally handicapped or messed up? any kid that would attack another has some really serious mental problems that need to be attended to immideately... the Jock that humilates or beats up the geeks has a self esteem problem that is very deeply rooted, and he also probably has an agressive personality that is augmented by the sport they participate in. the Geek that is inclusive, has no friends or in-appropriately attaches themselves to others (a 16 year old dating a 21 year old... this is a common mential problem with girls that dont have parental figures in their life.. that 21 year old is ther for 2 reasons... manipulation and easy poon-tang... this is why there are laws against it) and then we have school officials that hate their jobs and obviously hate kids.. what the hell are you doing in a job teaching kids if you dont love to be around them all the time??


    Every one of the "troublemakers" at your school..
    I'll bet dollars to donuts they have a mential problem that needs to be repaired...


  • You win by getting out, and making something of your life. There's nothing that burns a teacher more than to hear about a student who has done more within the span of a few short years than they have managed to do with their entire lives.

    If something or someone else bothers you, you escape it, or destroy it. Take your pick. I really dont see why this is such a hard concept to grasp for some people.. Its like they think they have no other option but to sit there and let people beat on them incessantly.

    Too much Barney, I guess. :)

    Bowie
    Bowie J. Poag
  • Yeah, thats the ticket. Lets blame guns.

    I say we blame high schools too. If they didnt exist, Columbine would have never happened. Yeah, thats the ticket. Duhhhhh.

    Somehow, somewhere, about 10 years ago, the American public stopped looking at morons and idiots as exactly what they were -- morons, and idiots. Suddenly, they're became "misguided youth", "victims of the media" or "troubled children".

    We are totally incapable of living with the idea that some individuals are just plain fucking stupid. Thats the most disturbing realization thats come out of all of this.

    Bowie
    Bowie J. Poag

  • "Oh, my teachers are so unfair to me!"

    "Oh, my school is run by people who abuse our rights!"

    "Oh help me, they've hurt my inner child!"


    The 90's are over. We can all quit whining now.
    Bowie J. Poag
  • Moooo! I'm the Columbine Cow! From the HELLMOUTH! Stop milking me, Katz! Mooooooo!

    Hehehe,
    Bowie

    Bowie J. Poag
  • I guess by you saying "secondary education" you are probably in the UK and if you believe that these sort of things don't happen over here i can tell you from experience that your wrong, i spent 7 years in senior school and would not like to repeat it, but in the UK weren't encouraged to talk about feelings etc, it was more like stiff upper lip and get on with it, yes the experience made me who i am now and i like who i am, but what could i have been if i'd had all the benefits of a happy school life and no hassles ?? Rant over.
  • And probably tried to blend back into the crowd like the Anonymous Coward that you are !
  • *ahem*
    Why do you insist on blaming everything on low self-esteem? "We're miserable because we don't like ourselves, we beat up on people because we don't like ourselves, we act up because we don't like ourselves..."

    That only works for about half the cases available. Self-esteem boosting is apparently effective because the mind says, "See, we did this, so where are the results?" But if you look at the entire results, you see that boosting some egos was too much, and some of *those* kids turned into bullies and braggarts.

    It is important that a person feel good about him- or herself, but the greater importance is to have an *accurate* opinion of one's value and capabilities. Placing value on creative thinking and hard work is important, and encouraging these abilities starting from a very early age. But one should also know one's limits, and how to get around them.
  • Does Jon Katz earn any money off this 'milking'?
  • Since I'm still in high school, I see this as a very helpful attempt to get the voices of many out to the masses. Surely you geeks/programmers/nerds remember what it was like. Perhaps I only commend this because it's all still fresh in my mind...yeah, it's not done up with endless Macromedia and it's not the prettiest site I've ever seen. But it works and gives the outcast a chance to blow off steam and be identified with.

    Here's an idea: If you're disillusioned with attempts to let the oppressed have a voice, why not set up your own site like this? Then we can all complain and be miserably happy. ;]

    Just my $0.02.
  • I think you're missing the point. From what I read he's sarcastically saying that all the comments posted here in regards to "Who cares? shit happens, get over it." are missing the point of what the website is for. Yes, shit happens, and we all have to move on, but next time a whole school blows up because some kids want revenge should we all just say "Oh well, shit happens, move on!" You know? Where do we draw the line??

    Talking about problems help a lot of people. Sharing stories of how someone fought back(not even physically) will give more kids out there the courage to stand up for themselves. Standing up to this type of abuse is very difficult for some people. Not all people think alike, and everyone has different priorities. Telling someone about what is going on may seem to them worse than living with the abuse. Depression is one of those things. Something I know from experience. Most people hide it until they actually try to kill themselves. Then they are put on medication, or some aren't alive to be treated.

    Getting up and moving on IS a GOOD thing. It's just that some need the support of other people who have been through it to get over it. Your last two sentences are probably the best advice you can give. The only thing is getting people to stop thinking things will only get worse. That is why this site can and will be helpful to many.

    Maybe I missed his point, but hopefully I made a few good points on my own.

    -John
  • We are totally incapable of living with the idea that some individuals are just plain fucking stupid. Thats the most disturbing realization thats come out of all of this.

    Maybe i'm misunerstanding your use of 'stupid' here, but there's a big problem with your logic -- not all killers are dumb. That's not to say genius=isanity because everyone knows that's not true.

    What America (and maybe the rest of the world, i can only speak for the sick portion i live in) refuses to admit is that everyone has potential to become a killer. Not everyone will snap, obviously, but those kids didn't do what they did because they were stupid. (they couldn't have)
  • While this might be a good way of dealing with a lone person who decides he doesn't like you, it will do nothing when the entire school is against you and has been for years.

    At the onset of adolescence, my entire peer group decided they hated me. They resented my intelligence, my honour and honesty, and my freedom (I did what suited me, openly obeying my own sense of honour rather than the rules). To be sure, I was arrogant and unapologetic for the ease with which I surpassed all my peers in all fields but sports (at which I was merely above average), but I never went out of my way to put my classmates down (until I was already fully unpopular and facing attacks on a daily basis; then I became I full-fledged jerk toward them).

    In my case, I always fought back. I wasn't sneaky about it either: if someone hit me while the teacher wasn't looking, I'd hit him back whether the teacher was looking or not.

    It didn't help, they just ganged up (once I reached an age where there were no lone bullies who were more than double my weight). Not just in 2s and 3s, but in big groups of 10 or 20, bringing in cousins and friends from out of town. One person would get my attention, three would tackle me from behind. I'd end up bloody and bruised and limping, but there'd still be split lips and black eyes on my attackers. If I could do nothing else I would spit my own blood in my attacker's eye.

    It's a miracle I didn't kill any of them. I certainly thought about it, even made plans about how to get away with it. I had fantasies about torturing people to death with power tools, about crippling them and dumping what was left at the hospital so they could live out a miserable life in pain.

    Part of the reason I made it through high school without killing anyone is that I started training in martial arts. I always had both a humanitarian philosophy and strong sense of honour, so I wouldn't really torture someone or even hit them from behind, but martial arts gave me a sense of my own strength and convinced me that it was not cowardly to avoid a pointless fight you can't win.

    In my last year of high school, I didn't get in any fights at all. Part of it was that I was avoiding fights even in the face of blatant provocation, but part of it was the way I dealt with my last few attackers; avoiding their assaults without injuring them with such ease that they were humiliated.

    It is not simple violence that is the solution, but sometimes the skillful and appropriate application of violence can be useful. Usually, though, there are better ways of dealing with the situation.
  • I was reading the other day that Eric (I think) had been on behavior modification drugs. The kid that wet nuts in Georgia had been on Ritalin for years. Perchance being on "good" drug just might have warped that sense of reality enough to make these action jusifyable?

    Personally I think this way of dealing with interesting children is sick and disgusting. It's so much like Brave New World as to be extremely frightening.

  • Brilliant diagnosis of human behavior, my good man! When are you sending your paper into the American Journal of Psychology?
  • "Oh, my school is run by people who abuse our rights!"

    Interesting that you mock that. When I was in high school, I could nothing to people that abused me. Couldn't fight them, couldn't get the adminstration to deal with them, just couldn't stop them. Well, I graduated, and in my first semester of college, some of those guys decided to continue to harass me. So I called the cops on them (what they were doing WAS in fact illegal on the books), we had a talk about the situation, and I haven't heard from them since. Problem solved finally.

    My point? What exactly changed from when I was in high school to college? I was 17 when the above incident happened, so it couldn't be that my rights are waived before the age of 18, otherwise the cops would've said "Tough shit, kid." I've been in public education in both instances (public hs and state university), so I know I was covered by the same state laws. So why all of a sudden do I have rights now? It's because public primary schools would violate those rights, either by action or by disinformation (never once in government did I learn about personal rights, call it a flaw of my class).

    Whining about people that abuse your rights? I hope you do, because if it can happen at my old high school, it can happen to another.

    --Jack--
  • I'm sick of hearing people spout this crap. Jon Katz hasn't written seriously about Columbine for MONTHS, except in passing -- he's been writing about how much Amazon sucks, and how movie theaters are full of crap. This isn't even HIS web site. If anyone's "milking" this, it's not him.
  • More often than not, these stories are about kids being beaten up for how they dress or where they are on the social (or sports) ladder. So how is that immature and childish?
    I'm not sure I agree with the Hellmouth thing on the whole, but where are you getting "Immature and childish?"
  • "seek only wealth, forgetting all but self"...

    Seems pretty apropos here and it reminds me of something its frequent quoter, Noam Chomsky, had to say about schoolyard abuse. I can't find the exact quote now, but he roughly said that a weaker kid on the playground got beat up one day by a bunch of stronger kids because he didn't stand up for him. Decades later, he still regrets and feels ashamed by that failure.

    So I ask those who "have heard enough" (obviously meaning that you really don't care about others who are weaker than yourself)... Where is your sense of duty? Of compassion? Of shame? Have you any?

  • The fulfillment of your angry fantasy would clearly and obviously only make things worse for everyone. What's more, you are presently exhibiting as little compassion and intelligence as your opressors (which is pretty typical when someone gets this out-of-control angry). You're probably too young (I'm guessing here, but it really sounds like you're in middle school or high school) to really understand this, but you do have a wide array of options right now. The sooner you grow up and *demand* help rather than asking for it or hoping for it, the sooner things will start to improve. If you sit around sulking and hoping other people will notice what a hell you're living through or hoping other people will get hurt to bring attention to your own plight, you will get what's coming to you in the meantime. If you're SMART, you will absolutely, totally and obstinately demand for as long as it takes that you be put in a reasonable non-abusive situtation (even if that means a transfer to another school district, private school, home schooling or dropping out entirely. in many cases, just skipping the rest of high school and going on to college is an option). What you don't know because you're young is that these seemingly all-powerful people like your teachers and parents *will* give in if you resist long enough and are coherent and reasonable with your demands. You have the absolute RIGHT not to live in terror at school. I think this is a good lesson for everyone experiencing schoolyard abuse. You *don't* have to just lie there and take it. If you put up enough resistance, adults will be FORCED to do something about it. And if they don't, if you've truly got bad or abusive parents that don't give a damn about you when the chips are down, then there are government agencies that can step in to stop the abuse. So don't be an idiot. Stand up for your RIGHTS. You will feel a lot better once you do.

  • It might be okay to fantasize about it (although I don't really see the use of that), but actually killing or even harming another living being never truly feels good or leads to anything good. I think we all know this in our hearts even if we choose to maintain a different public face about it. A harmful action like killing should simply never be taken, even against someone who has done something truly horrible, unless all other immediate options for our own safety and the safety of others around us have been exhausted. I know very well the feeling you're talking about. I just choose to reject it as part of who I am. Anger is not part of human nature. It is a delusion that obscures our true human nature. I find this way of thinking to be a lot more positive and it leads to a more positive and constructive outlook on life. You can't change someone else. You can change yourself. So how do you plan to proceed?
  • No, I don't think that's the case at all. The media may have some small effect, but ultimately it is just a convenient scapegoat. If you're part of the media (which is not merely controlled by the power class, but in fact *owned* by it), you have to point the finger at *something* (and preferrably something nebulous like TV violence or genetics which won't lead anywhere substantial) because otherwise people might start looking for facts and truth... and we all know where that might lead...

    It might expose what workers, families and children all over America already know: we're engaged in domestic class warfare. And as long as there is enough panic, destruction, confusion, blame, disillusionment, misery and *above all* polarized, anti-governmental and anti-political attitudes, the power class is ensured that they will continue to stay on top. Anti-political sentiment is the nail in the coffin of the lower classes (meaning the bottom 70-80% of America at this point, and rising fast), because it ensures that people will fail to utilize the *sole* institution in which they have a voice - government. Given what we see around us, I'd say things are going pretty well for the power class. And the wanton violence and abuse in the workplace and schools is the sound of the social fabric being torn apart (or rather shredded, as it's already been torn by preceding decades of class warfare). I think any observant kid who hasn't yet had a decent "education" can tell you what's going on in the US today.

    Let me make this clear, I'm not saying that class warfare has the sole purpose of causing high school violence, or even that it is the direct cause of it. What I *am* saying is that high school (and workplace) violence is the fully expected side-effect of social policies carefully constructed by the ruling class to divide and conquer (economically) the rabble. The US has sophisticated technology and is arguably the most free society in the world, but socially we are one of the most backward ever. Perhaps French philosopher Jean Baudrillard said it best when he called America "the last great primitive society". All the freedom, democracy, power and technology in the world doesn't ensure social justice. Just look around on the streets here. Are these the conditions one would expect in the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world?

    What can we do about this? Well, if you're American and of voting age, you can commit yourself to getting out and voting in *every* election for the best third party candidate available. As long as the power class holds the strings via the Republican and Democratic parties, we will all continue to lose and conditions in the US will continue to get worse. If you think about it, you really have no other choice.

  • I meant best third party candidate*s*. The local elections coming up this Fall are far more important in determining social policy than presidential elections. This year, with luck, we may just elect the first ever progressive majority to the Seattle city council, thanks in a large part to the Green Party of Seattle. If this happens, it will be a *massive* victory for social justice in Seattle, and by extension in the US. We're going to show that it *can* be done. Social policy *can* be changed.
  • I agree. Competitive sports have no rightful place in education.
  • Points well taken - but here is something to think about, that has everything you say (with the exception of excercise/physical training), plus would appeal to the geeks as well:

    Robo-Sports!

    All of your points would apply (except for the ones I mentioned); winning fairly, losing well, social/team involvment, and hand-eye coordination. Add to that the chance to learn robotics and AI, maybe learn RTLinux, and applying logic/thought to solving a problem.

    It wouldn't have to cost a lot of money, either. the individual robots could be built either out of Legos or scrap wood/metal - Legos would be a better choice, for the educational reuse and discount possibilities - but I wouldn't rull out homebrew stuff, either...
  • This new site "Hellmouth" seems to have missed the whole point somehow (and I speak as one who was highly impressed by the Slashdot "Hellmouth" series, and as one who's been there, done that, got the scars). It has a revenge-oriented feel to it that is disturbing in its own way. The site owner's own attitude contributes to this -- frex, statements such as the one to the effect of "if you don't like my HTML, fsck off". I get the feeling the only people welcome are those who support the site owner's OWN viewpoint and personal gripes (ie. sense of martyrdom).

    Unlike the direct followups on Jon's columns, which had a sense of personal healing about them, I can't see this new site as a positive place for kids to gather and unload about what troubles them.
  • I've seen people refer to new copyright notices, but I'm still seeing the "Rob Malda" copyright.
  • ... but then again I use Lynx as my primary browser. You'd be amazed at how many hideous pages become decent with Lynx. But on the other hand, a lot of pages that look OK in bloatware browsers end up ugly in Lynx, so there's a trade-off. Not to mention all the fuckheads who use JavaScript for things like basic navigation (please shoot them). Overall, though, I'd have to say that using Lynx is better than not using Lynx.
  • "They want attention, just like all these psychopaths"

    Ah, right genious...and the natural solution is not to FOUND OUT WHY, but to unilaterally scorn and ignore. Good job. No wonder public schools and people in general are more fucked up than ever.

    Maybe we should drill holes in their heads to let the "evil spirits" out, eh?
  • Goddamn...I'm the "genious"...I can't even spell...
  • "I'll bet dollars to donuts they have a mential problem that needs to be repaired..."

    ...That were most probably caused by others with institutionalized mental problems conditioned and condoned by society. ALL THESE people can't simply be having chemical imbalances! Don't just treat the symptom. These kids are acting perfectly NORMAL to the environment they are subjected to. Cure the environment.
  • Assertiveness is great. But if the guy(s) is twice as big/tall/heavy you are plain out of luck. And you probably won't have enough friends to gang up. Unfortunately violence is sometimes not a practical solution (no matter how much one my dream of it).
  • Yes, it does no good to just call people whiners. I used to be one of those whiners who was beat up continually. The admin's were no help either. I had no one to turn to... except a really good kung fu teacher. The school wanted nothing to do with it, until I started winning that is. Once I was attacked by three jock assholes, and the administrators tried got pissed at me for beating the shit out of them. They actually started to argue that I had been the aggressor! It took about five minutes for the dumbasses to figure out how ludicrous it would have been for me to run down 3 big, strong, burly jocks into a locker room and attack them!

    Would high school have been hell if I'd been both a geek and unable to defend myself? You bet. I have absolutely no respect for those of you who just say, "it's not my problem". It is your problem if you let this sort of thing continue. Somebody might mow down your kids if he gets pissed on enough. Then how would you feel if administrators and police told you that, "it's not their problem?"
  • Maybe if the media (and the human race) didn't make such a big deal out of all of this, it wouldn't happen in the first place. We all see those idiots standing behind the news reporters jumping around, looking stupid, just to get on TV. They want attention, just like all these psychopaths (sp?) that go around shooting their class mates. I know that people jumping around behind a reporter and people killing other people aren't exactly on the same level, but they have the same motivation: getting attention.
  • I agree. The site looks awful. Only works with a large screen res. The blue links look really bad against the black background.

    Still, it does finally bring some attention to the underlying problem.


    BWUK
  • Who cares what he's using? This isn't about OS advocacy. It's about trying to say something. Who cares what tools you use as long as your message gets across?
  • The constant abuse of authority by those in positions of trust over young people is disgusting.
    My High School principal at an assembly at the school claimed "I have more power then the police"
    and elaborated by saying he could search students, their bags, bodies and lockers, without warrants, or even evidence. This attitude is just wrong.

    Most children/young people do not have the confidence to stand up and do what is right, I did quite often and I got a LOT of trouble for it.
    Things as small as pointing out the teacher is wrong. Teachers who think that they are somehow child experts, and can just disregard whatever the parents, child, or real doctors.
    Maybe if enough people make statements, either through articles, protests, complaints, or even violent statements, maybe enough people will acknowledge that there is a problem and do something about it.

    I don't necessarily condone violence, but really what other choices are we giving this kids, when they know they will be killed if they continue to do nothing?
  • Hmmm. At least that makes more sense than, oh, bright, cheery, bold color schemes given the subject matter...
  • I'd agree *if* the hypothetical firearms owners were well-trained in their maintenance and usage. Even, say, for an armed guard walking the beat in a school (in constrast to arming untrained civvies), such as there actually was at Columbine, to be able to take down one or two shooters in an area full of panicking people you _don't_ want to shoot might be beyond many.

    It'd also have to be carried and readily accessible, most likely; a weapon in a locked desk is useless if the owner is prevented from approaching it.

    Hmmmm. Anybody know how whether and how much training is required before (guess this would mostly be a per-state thing...) permits are granted?
  • People take this too far, I mean, shit happens, lets face it. Besides, Columbine would never have happened if they all had guns, now would it have?? ;)
  • man, this site is ugly.. :) but i guess it might actually help and attract some more attention and provide some outlet for kids. let's see if it actually will fly. it is ugly though, damnit :)
  • Can you explain to me how Individualism is childish? How getting tormented and ostracized every day of your life is being childish? I love how people say "It's part of growing up. Get over it." I doubt you will even make an effort to understand what is actually happening here. It's not "childish" teenagers "whining" about how they were picked on. It's REAL HUMAN BEINGS venting, talking about the hell that they've gone through, because people like their teachers, parents, administrators, etc just don't listen. They have to tell someone, or they'll end up like Eric & Dylan.

    But maybe that's what you want.. destroy individualism and all the problems will go away. That, if anything, is a childish mentality.
  • I hate to make apologies for anything Microsoft (I'm forced to use it at work because the proxy server won't work with anything else), but the "accessibility options" include a box to click to ignore the color selections specified by the web page. This eliminates the text-unreadable-over-the-background problem.

    The global "suppress animations" click-box is nice too; banner ads stop being a nuisance, and the entire page still loads (unlike the last version of Netscape I used, which would stop loading the page if you did alt-V A to shut them off).

    Now if it would only stop leaking memory and munging all its windows after you have about 15 open... (Bugs? In M$ products? Perish the thought! ;-)

  • It figures that you'd post your sneer as an AC. Very appropos.
    Sure we are intelligent enough to almost understand how evolution and genetics accomplishes this, but ultimately our behaviour and our children's "group play" is going to mimic the fight for survival that has ensued in nature since people began walking upright. This behaviour which is so tasteless to our rational minds, is fundamental for setting life guidelines and rules for reproduction.
    This notion is ridiculous. The problems we are seeing are peculiar to schools, largely in the USA, and not even all of those. And your assertion is refuted by the fact that the abusive behavior lamented by the geeks and goths is in fact unlawful in the greater society. If the school administrators were instead employers, they would be liable for enormous damage awards for failing to end the problem. Assault and battery and stalking are crimes. So why are teachers and administrators ignoring crimes committed against helpless students in their classrooms and hallways? We would not tolerate this nonsense anywhere else; neither would you.

    The current state of many US high schools closely resembles the pecking order in prisons. The stronger "prisoners" dominate the weaker, and this is tolerated by the "guards" so they don't have to stick their necks out to keep the bullies in line. IMNSHO, that's plain wrong. The teachers and admins can always suspend or expel the bullies. Jocks, to name one problem group, only have status because the school (through the team) grants it. If "jock culture" has centered on assault&battery as recreation or a rite of passage, it's high time to purge the adherents from the hierarchy or eliminate HS sports entirely and get rid of the sponsored "gangs".

    Let the SOB's take the football money and spend it on real wages for math & science teachers, to get the classes up to college level. That's what we need.

  • Once again slashdotters have seen the trees, and missed the forest.

    High school was, and still is, hell for alot of people. The fact that our politicians immediately seized on the opportunity to "profile" geeks and outcasts rather than identify the root of the problem is evidence of why sites like this are necessary. There are several support groups that have already sprung up to address these issues. Hopefully, in time, they will form a grass-roots efforts to help sanitize our schools' policies. I, for one, welcome it. My high school experiences were less than memorable, and I'm very, very happy that I graduated before the columbine hysteria.

    Now, some quick Q&A, because I already know how this is going to be taken:

    "It's only 4 years, what's the big deal?"
    The ages of 13-19 are the years that the vast majority of kids develop their outlook on life. If they're spending that time being beat up and oppressed... well, you do the math.

    "I never had any trouble in high school, what's the big deal?"
    Thousands of people didn't get in a car accident today because you didn't either, right?

    "You suck! Die you commie bastard!"
    Another victim of public education, I see...

    Why do politicians pass legislation like this?
    Good question! It's because it makes for "good public policy". It sounds good, like a title for a book. And alot of people only judge a book by it's cover. And besides - minors can't defend themselves politically(can't vote!), so what incentive to politicians have to protect their rights?

    --
  • I think this site is a good idea. Yeah, *it happens. The problem is that it happens to a lot of somewhat defenseless people, one or two at a time, all over the country. A central gathering of tales -- and remedys! -- from all the school systems is a good thing.

    A website is an excellent source for this kind of information. It will help people deal with this kind of abuse without bothering anyone else. Hardly something to complain about, doncha think?

    Meanwhile, Jon Katz' legacy grows. ;)

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