Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
News

The Unofficial Guide to Lego Mindstorms 86

Posted by CmdrTaco from the aint-that-cool dept.
Clifton Tipon wrote in to tell us that O'Reilly has a book on Lego Mindstorms for all you robot junkies out there. They're definitely covering the spectrum over there.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The Unofficial Guide to Lego Mindstorms More

The Unofficial Guide to Lego Mindstorms

Comments Filter:
  • As far as I can remember, O'Reilly has:
    • No books about sex. [snip]

    Gosh, I guess I never thought I needed a book to teach me anything about sex. I mean if there's anything that is self-documenting, sex has got to be it. :-)

  • Sure there are. And they are great too. If anyone can tell you how Windows *does* work, it's O'Reilly. Check out http://windows.oreilly.com for their series on Windows and Windows NT. Especially the one on Event Logging. Now *that's* a funny book :-)



    [John]

  • Actually, I see them as more than a curiosity. The sets provide an excellent platform with the basic materials needed to learn a lot about robotics, and even programming, and develop test models for robot designs. They can be put together and changed quickly and fairly inexpensively. Once a person developes and programs a good design they might be able to translate it to a more rigid design that can handle temperature extremes, chemical spills etc. The most important aspects to this are learning and development. They provide an interesting platform for kids and adults to learn about and further develop the field of robotics. Many fields of science and engineering benefit from the work of amateurs and hobbyists. Lego has provided a fun system that helps to open up the world of robotics to many who otherwise wouldn't be able to explore it.
  • Legos were a big step up. As a kid, I missed out on all the cool new stuff.

    Tell me about it. Everything is way better now than it was back then. Even the fairly tame stuff is pretty cool. And it's not jsut computers and electronic stuff. I mean, don't you wish you'd had access to Stomp Rockets? [stomprocket.com] And on and on...

  • What you need is a Lego Mindstorms robot capable of assembling a clone of itself. Use one kit to build the first robot, and then automagically build six more using what you have on hand. Drop them all off in a Toys R Us late at night, and let them liberate and assemble their buddies. If the toy store is a rockin...

    Build a driver bot, and have them hijack a truck to Legoland. Once they get there, its all over. The resulting army will help you take over the world. You will rule with your army of Legobots from a hollowed out volcano with giant video screens. Of course you could build a Mindstorms football team instead...


    Holding, bot number 100101, ten brick penalty, repeat second down.

    -BW



  • I work for a company that does laboratory automation. Most of our equipment, including our robotic arm, is designed only to move small sample plates that weigh a few ounces. I think that perhaps your definition of a useful robot is a little too narrow.

    Here's a link to one of our robots: ORCA Robotic Arm [beckmancoulter.com]

    We send some of our smaller projects out to local universities for use as senior projects, and some of those teams have used Mindstorms as a tool for building prototypes. My alma mater, Rose-Hulman [rose-hulman.edu], is actually using Mindstorms as a part of their Mechatronics course.
  • Hmm, I see, on their list of recent and upcoming titles:

    The Fearless Shopper (arguably an aspect of finance/economics)
    Adventure of Food (diets of other cultures)
    Several books on cancer, leukemia, psychological disorders (significant aspects of hygeine)
    Testosterone Planet (hehehe..sex...hehehe)

    ..as well as several travel books. They ARE diversifying. And they've been for a while: look at their full product index sometime. Sure, we can't live by O'Reilly's words yet. Give it a few more months. :)

    -Chris

  • 1. Do they come with temperature, motion, pressure or any similar sensor packages?

    The Robotics Invention System comes with two touch sensors and one light sensor. You can buy rotation and temperature sensors from LEGO. Beyond that, you'll have to build your own. (I have a chapter about this, including instructions for a Hall effect sensor.)

    2. Does the ora book give a pinout on the connectors so custom electronics can be added?

    No. Nobody's tried to open up the box to attach stuff directly to the circuitboard, as far as I know. The closest information I know about is at Kekoa Proudfoot's site: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/

    3. Are there motor specifications so that motors can be removed/ redesigned/ remounted?

    There's some motor information at Dave Baum's site: http://www.enteract.com/~dbaum/lego/motors.html

  • The Mindstorms book has quite a bit on Visual Basic.

    O'Reilly writes plenty on Microsoft. But they seem to be pretty objective about it, with titles like "Outlook Annoyances".
  • There are tons and tons of European soccer lego-based bots. I can't find any links off of the top of my head, but my favorite one had an entire assembly of arms and motors to drive them. The purpose? To do a victory dance. None other. Crazy Europeans, heh? :)
    ~luge
  • "The Unofficial Guide to ..." was a series of MS Windows books edited (sometimes written) for Addison Wesley by Woody Leonhard. He's since edited (and sometimes written) the "Annoyances" series of MS Windows books for O'Reilly. (Both series recommended.)

    Coincidence?

  • Re:Wow (Score:1)

    by wmehl ( 76209 )
    At the risk of showing my age, the only other options were Lincoln Logs, Erector Sets and Mr. PotatoHead. Legos were a big step up. As a kid, I missed out on all the cool new stuff.
  • Yeah, coincidence. There were some legal issues with the name, as the Lego Group is very protective of their trademark. Check out this post [lugnet.com] where the author discusses some of the problems.
    ~luge
  • "Did you have time to design neural networks when you were a kid?"
    Nope. But then, when I was a kid, I'm fairly sure even Minsky himself was only just out of short trousers, far less getting into neurotransmitters & NN topologies :). Or are you saying at 16 I should have been publishing the seminal works on AI? :)

    "This is exactly like the calculator argument... Sure, having calculators readily available means that kids nowadays can't calculate anything [...] But it also means they can move on more quickly to stuff like Calculus".
    And still have no clue about what the numbers mean! Would you prefer to run before you could walk?

    "...difficult for everyone out of "fairness" for the "old guard". I for one am happy to see that today, it is as easy building a robot as building Lego sets."
    I wasn't talking about "fairness". But when a kid gets used to having it easy all the time because the knowledge base required is too low, it gets dangerous for their future development. Like how will they deal with any problems that crop up? If you already understand the nature of the beast, you're already halfway there to finding a solution. It just worries me that as soon as the learning curve is no longer spoon fed, kids with their ever decreasing attention spans will just walk away. That said, you make the entry level too hard and no kid will even get the box open! :) I guess what I'm saying is there's a fine line between spoon fed and encouraging an interest in learning for it's own sake. The ORA book can only be a positive step in this direction - sort of a next step bible, by the sounds of things.

    "Like designing more complex AI, for instance."
    :) Jeez, when I was in my final year of CS, I had a hard enough time configuring a NN for even basic recognition tasks!!! You really think there are minors out there who are writing cutting edge AI algorithms? Hmmm.....

    To answer your question on OSS: what do you mean, an "equivalent" to Mindstorms? Lego Mindstorms are Open Source, because they give you the "code" (plans) and they're free, so you can expand on them!
    I mean something along the lines of circuit diagrams (even kits) to build your own of this type stuff, plus the low level software to make it go - "luge" has already posted some of this - Thanks! . The only thing that keeps me away from the Lego stuff was that when I last played with it, it wasn't anywhere near robust enough & you couldn't easily attach it to anything other than Lego. I'm not an Electrical Engineer but I've waved a soldering iron about before & usually don't blow anything up / cause injury / destabilise minor political enclaves! :)
  • wasn't Lego keeping the working of mindstorms secret a while ago? Could this be a breach of copyright?
  • Don't throw away the CD though, because if you want to do NQC, you need the official lego firmare. NQC is nice to use for the cases where it can handle your program's needs (most of the time, I've found) because you're able to share your code with a wider audience.

    --

  • Yes, this is technically an excellent set. It has a large number of, and wide variety of, parts. Even if you have no Lego Technics parts at all, this set serves as an excellent starter, equipping you with at least a pair of everything you might need to build a machine.

    And best of all, there are plenty of Linux-related resources at http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics/
    -russ
  • Well one problem is that you can't anything really interesting with Mindstorms anyway. Can you create something that could map out a terain of a room on demand. Cary a load and move out of the way? Can it sense depth? If this cannot be done with what lego has provided in the box it is largely useless. Since most people have no knowledge about constructing, building, and maintaining.

    The AI argument is almost impossible. I have never even seen anything (well except the doctor eliza type things) that do anything really cool. Most of AI is based on complex very difficult to understand principles that almost no one can understand without the use of at least 4 years of post calculus math anyway. If it's so easy why hasn't anyone produced an opensourced AI program for communication. The day I can have a scintiliating discussion on Voltaire, Dickens, and the Existential nature of man with my computer I will believe.
  • And I'm writing this from NT now.

    I have got linux (SUSE6.1 if anyone cares) but I don't seem to use it apart from for university projects.
  • damn ... you are lucky I hust checked out the link at CPS196. There's some pretty interesting stuff here. If anyone else is looking for an interesting read and problems then read on, especially the different design and code examples there's even the reading list :)
  • I've got both on order at amazon...
    (Dave Baum's Definitive Guide to LEGO Mindstorms) - of NQC fame.
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1893115097/ o/qid=940377031/sr=8-2/002-1147117-22058 04
  • If you can't get it from Amazon or the normal sources (which, as far as I can tell, all list November as the issue date) order it direct from O'Reilly- they've got it in stock. I just filed mine.
    ~luge
  • I worked for nearly a year doing tech support for LEGO Mindstorms, and I can tell you about some really weird ones. However, my favorite was the one my manager built. It would, when the top panel was pressed, use a light sensor to follow a black line of tape to the refrigerator. It would open the door (it was a small refrigerator), reach in, and if a beer was in the right place, snag one, then follow the black tape back to him. While he still needed to get up every other beer to put one in the right place, it's still a fun idea.
  • This is such great news. :) I've been looking for a compendium of Lego Mindstorms knowledge that went beyond the colourful books that come with the kit.

    I'm not surprised such a book is coming out. I think even Lego must be surprised at the range of applications people are thinking up for these babies. Lego Mindstorms is the sole reason why I have gotten back into Lego after many joyless years of Legoless life... It's every geek child's wet dream. It's an adult geek's wet dream. From digital cameras to scanners to Enigma machines (I'm working on that one), the possibilities are just endless. I'm glad to see some serious literature being put out on the subject.

    Could someone please review this book on Slashdot?

    P.S.: For fans of Star Wars and Lego Mindstorms... It's been announced that Lego will put out a AT-AT Mindstorms kit. Am I the only one drooling at this? My childhood Lego fantasy was to have a AT-AT Lego model... I spent hours trying to build one. And now... I'll have one, and it'll be controlled through my computer... *happy sigh*

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • Some possible new O'Reilly Slogans:

    "If their is no O'Reilly book on the subject, it isn't worth knowing."

    "Everything I ever needed to know, I learned from O'Reilly books."

    :P

    You have to hand it to O'Reilly. They do a great job of keeping on top of the newest topics and produce great books on them. And with all of the books they have put out on various Free Software, they have proven themselves to be our ally.

    (Will someone do a review on this book?)

    Kudos to O'Reilly!
  • Judging from O'Reilly's previous books, I feel it is safe to say that this book will be extremely helpful. I love Eggos!! This book will no doubt contain scrumptious recipes for these instant delights!
  • So is this lego mindstorm stuff any good? It's horribly tempting to get some and have a play, but it's a bit too expensive to just buy on a whim.
  • There's a lot of information in this book for using tools like NQC and LegOS that work under Linux.

    --

  • Online Resources (Score:4)

    by luge ( 4808 ) <slashdot@DEBIANtieguy.org minus distro> on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @06:20AM (#1602273) Homepage
    Jonathan has been quite active on the lego user group mailing lists, and he definitely knows his stuff- I'll be ordering the book soon. In the meantime, for those of you who aren't quite ready to buy the book, he has published an excellent list of online resources for Mindstorms. [oreilly.com] It is quite thorough, and a great place to start if you are thinking about buying a set and wondering what you can find online.
    ~luge(who is mentioned down there in ch. 10)
  • Isn't this more of a curiousity thing than something useful. Legos cannot do anything more than act as a semi-regid structure. They cannot take extremes of heat, chemical spills or pressures. You really couldn't use these robots for anything except to boost your robot building ego.

  • Wow (Score:1)

    by wmehl ( 76209 )
    This is too cool! I attribute my aptitude for technical jobs to an early addiction to Legos. It is cool to see that other adults do not underestimate the educational value of toys. After all, the Internet is the biggest Lego set ever made :)
  • Hey, we're handing it to the next generation of geeks on a plate, here!!!
    When I was 16, I designed, built & tested (it worked, too! :) my own Turtle from parts bought from RS Supplies. Then wrote a LOGO - like language (interpreted) & editor for my Commodore 64 to run it, complete with hand assembled machine code (anybody remember DATA 255,0,123,55... statements - heheh!).
    That said, back in those days, you could buy the C64 Programmers' Reference Guide quite cheaply; it had almost a complete breakdown of the internals of the machine, way before OSS was even thought of.
    I wish I could get something like that going on my PC these days; all analogue/digital expansion cards to plug non-standard H/W seem to cost a fortune these days (last I checked UK £100+).
    Still, if this Mindstorm kit can give our up and coming under-geeks a head start and that all - important "how does it work" bug, the future of geekdom seems assured!
    Anybody know of an OSS equivalent of the Mindstorm stuff?
  • Yews, we all build a huge super race of LEGO Mindstorms super robots and storm Microsofts HQ! Now does that o'reilly book explain how to mount 30mm cannons on a robot?
  • Yup. I've never once even opened the Windows CD. If you are a serious programmer, you wouldn't want that crud ported to Linux anyway- it is designed for kids, and you can't do serious work with it. Like the guys have said, check out legOS [www.noga.de].
    ~luge
  • Several days after I bought a widescreen tv, a story appeared on /.
    A few days ago I bought the Droid Construction Kit, and this is the best news I could have.
    Tim O'reilly, I love you. I want to have your droids.
  • Who cares? What you want is the Programmable Lego Brick, not the CD ROM. Consider the CD ROM as a freeby.

    The kit itself, however, can easily be programmed with NQC, and that runs fine under Linux.

    Take it like bying a new PC: it might come with Windows, but you just have to reformat and partition. I mean, why wouldn't Lego package their product for Windows? The majority of users have Windows, and they're selling a toy, not a piece of software. Boycotting Mindstorms for this reason is plain silly. And you're the one missing on the fun.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • You bet the Lego Mindstorms is good. It's incredible.

    Buy the kit, it's an investment. Later, you can pass it on to your kids so they'll learn object-oriented code before they're 10 year-old. It's educative, it's thrilling, and you'll never tire of playing with it.

    If you've ever been a Lego fan, pick it up. Remember the thrill of playing with Lego? Same thing here. Except that you're coupling this with the thrill of coding.

    Geek heaven.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • Do you think we'd need to put these together into a Beowolf cluster? :)
  • Since I saw this yesterday I've been arguing with myself over this one. It looks too damn cool, but I have a nasty habit of buying expensive toys and letting them rot in the closet.

    Give me some incentive! Any personal expriences with these? Anything that scares cats is a plus!

  • Colophon (Score:2)

    by j_d ( 26865 )
    The animal on the cover of The Unofficial Guide to Lego Mindstorms is a giant mecha-rabbit. Mechanized rabbits were popularized in anime, and frequently terrorize Neo-Tokyo. They stand between 100 and 250 feet, and carry a wide variety of armaments.
  • They are still keeping the internals "secret," in the sense that if you ask The Lego Group for documentation on opcodes, hardware, etc., you'll get nothing from them. However, Kekoa Proudfoot tortured his RCX until it talked, which gave the community the data it needed for the various open OS's now available. The page detailing his work is here [stanford.edu].
    Once that work was done, the information was available, and the OS's were done. However, even then TLG nearly sued to keep the OS's off the web, according to Forbes. They did stop short of that, but still aren't at all cooperating. Poor business decision on their part- like Dell and other HW folks, they should learn to be OS agnostic, knowing that variety in OS leads to more HW sales. Oh well...
    ~luge
  • I wonder if I could con work into purchasing a few of these kits so we could do our proof of concept demonstration models. Just think: build it, code it, and re-use it for the next POC demonstration. Plus now that O'Reilly produces a book it might be possible to claim it as a "tool" not a just a "toy".

    This would actually mean that controls systems became thought out etc...

    Some questions for you lego heads out there:
    1. Do they come with temperature, motion, pressure or any similar sensor packages?
    2. Does the ora book give a pinout on the connectors so custom electronics can be added?
    3. Are there motor specifications so that motors can be removed/ redesigned/ remounted?


    Any thoughts?
  • Hope my initial response didn't sound too harsh... deefer, You're raising a few good points in your reply, and I'd like to address them further:

    I do agree with you that basics are important, but you don't have to know every basic element that makes a system work in order to master elements of it. For instance, I don't need to know how basic circuitry works in order to program object-oriented code; yes, it will make me a more complete coder if I know my hardware inside out, but I can still master coding and only understand the basics of hardware interaction.

    You argue that being able to skip the basics means that you won't have to deal with serious problem-solving, and that means you're not learning well. I disagree, and my point is, if you can go over the basics more easily and without problems, it means you can find your problems in the more advanced stuff.

    I used the NN example as an example, even though I know people of our generation couldn't possibly deal with NN when we were kids. But NN are exactly what I mean: now that technology is more readily available, you can go over the basics quickly, then deal with stuff like learning algorithms. (There are people playing around with NN on Lego Mindstorms out there; I'm doing it too, since I learned NN inside out in Physics Grad.)

    The argument is similar to the old coders complaining that people don't know how to program in assembler anymore... Yeah, I have no clue how to order the 0's and 1's to even create a simple OR gate. What I do know is C++, perl and Java. You can still learn and do a great deal if you take a few things for granted; the learning curve is still there as you progress further. It's just on another level.

    So: whether you're building a robot out of household furniture (which is quite an exploit, I'll grant you that) or programming a shrink-wrap Lego kit with adaptive learning algorithms, I think you're just working on a different level. I'm sure it'll give you the curiosity bug, and it'll make you sweat all the same.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • Im still a Lego fanatic. While I dont have the cash yet for Mindstorms, I still ahve enough fun on my own trying to build auto transmissions strictly from Technic. Where did I put that 4 speed tranny blueprint?
  • I was stoked about getting one of these sets until I really looked at it (I too was going to make a lego AT-AT.). I thought I would need about 6 motors, (4 legs, 2 head) but the brick only has 3 motor outputs. If this book can tell me how to get more outputs (i.e. multiple bricks) it will be worth it. (Of course building my own board might be cool too.)
  • "Dummies in a nutshell", or " O'Reilly books for dummies" ? :-)
  • Not to be insulting, but you're only limited by your imagination.

    Can you create something that could map out a terain of a room on demand.

    Certainly. I've seen it done. (Can't find a URL, though.) Just keep track of the robot's position, and feed the presence/absence of objects to a computer database.

    Cary a load and move out of the way?

    Yes. [legomindstorms.com]

    Can it sense depth?

    It can be done. One way I see of doing it is by using two bricks, and placing them at a distance from one another, then use the "echoes" of the infrared emitter via light sensors.

    All you mentioned is feasible with one or two Mindstorms kits, and basic ingenuity. You might need more Lego bricks, but that's it.

    Check out The Lego Mindstorms [mindstorms.com] page, and visit the Hall of Fame, Expert section. Then tell me you can't do anything with Lego Mindstorms... You can do digital cameras and scanners. I think you can do anything.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • I am absolutely certain that with a little time and effort I could produce a robot that could go fetch me a beer. Would that not be useful? I could also (with a little more effort) build a robot that wins me some cash in a Lego robot building contest. It's also easy to build a robot that can keep your pets company when you're passed out or off to some contest. Have you ever considered what lonliness does to your pets' psyche?
  • You've a few good points in there yourself, Enoch! :). I think we both agree that anything that gets you curious is a Good Thing.
    It just does my head in (and sorely distresses me) having to explain what an Instruction Pointer is to recent graduates, and then further explain to them that "a CPU dump is not an Active X component"... I guess that's what I'm scared of here, removing curiosity at this young age.
  • "Anybody know of an OSS equivalent of the Mindstorm stuff?"

    Yep. Check out NQC or Forth(no links at the moment, sorry) or legOS [www.noga.de]. All are free (legOS is MPL) and reasonably well supported by their communities. If you want something reminiscent of the "good old days," you might do well to remember that reverse engineering is just as hard if not harder than DIY, and then take a look at kekoa's page. [stanford.edu] If he hadn't destroyed his bot, there would be no open source anything for the mindstorm. Very good geek stuff.
    ~luge
  • Yeah, I figure I'm one of the luckiest guys in geekdom- I've spent the last two semesters getting class credit to play with legos, and got paid to do it over the summer. They are definitely worth the investment- the purest joy I've ever seen college kids have *in class* was CPS196 opening all of their kits on the second day of class. Check out the class page [duke.edu] for links and pictures.
    ~luge

  • Could someone please review this book on Slashdot?

    Since you asked so nicely, yes. It's really interesting -- more of an overview of the different things you can do than an in-depth exploration of any one thing. It reminds me of Programming Web Graphics with Perl and GNU Utilities in that sense. The demo robots are quite interesting.

    Full review coming when I finish it.

    --
    QDMerge [rmci.net] 0.4 just released!
  • Boy do I disagree with you here.

    It's not because technology becomes more accessible that it's being dumbed down! Ok, so people now won't know how to build a robot from scratch. However, the time you spent building robots, they're spending pushing the enveloppe on how artificial intelligence works. Did you have time to design neural networks when you were a kid? No, you were welding parts together.

    This is exactly like the calculator argument... Sure, having calculators readily available means that kids nowadays can't calculate anything operations on anything above a two-figure number off the top of their heads. But it also means they can move on more quickly to stuff like Calculus.

    Having strong bases is important, sure. But it doesn't mean it has to be difficult for everyone out of "fairness" for the "old guard". I for one am happy to see that today, it is as easy building a robot as building Lego sets. It means the kids can concentrate on the cooler stuff. Like designing more complex AI, for instance.

    To answer your question on OSS: what do you mean, an "equivalent" to Mindstorms? Lego Mindstorms are Open Source, because they give you the "code" (plans) and they're free, so you can expand on them!

    If you mean the software that comes with the Lego Mindstorms kit, then Not Quite C (NQC) is what you're looking for. Runs under Linux, too.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • ... and so that I can be /.ed:
    A picture of 5 Mindstorms [duke.edu], which use reinforcement learning to learn to push trailers around a floor without jackknifing. I actually have access to 7, so if anyone has any suggestions on what to do with all of them...
    ~luge
  • I can think of a lot of useful things one can do without exposing myself (or my lego) to extremes of heat, chemical spills or pressures.

    I think your definition of "useful" is pretty narrow.

    D

    ----
  • ...Or politics or religion. Yep...explains alot about me. :)
  • I bought the Lego Mindstorms kit last year, then quickly followed with the two extension kits (for the parts.) Mindstorms are heaven, and I haven't tired of sitting on my bed and designing machines, or simply making a simple vehicle and figuring out better ways to run it through Linux.

    I've toyed with projects such as making an Enigma machine out of Lego bricks (doing the encryption mechanically, as opposed to simply running the algorithm on a computer), and the day I get a T1 connection at home, I'm programming a remote control program in Java... So I can play with my toys from work. :)

    And trust me, it scares the cats witless! Mine had a holy terror of it after I used a light sensor to make it a motion detector, and start running after the cats making loud noises. After that, I made a simple robot that gives out a cat treat when they press a touch sensor, and plays with them by wagging a tail. So now my cats are neurotic!

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • You know, if you kill a cat in the dead of winter steam will rise up from the wound. Native Americans though it was its soul escaping from the body... Oh... You said SCARE. Yeah, I suppose you can do that TOO. They are seriously cool, but I used mine for a while, and now that I've gotten busier, they've been rotting in my closet for a few months. But this book might get me back into them.
  • I've really enjoyed them, but if it weren't for the class I'm TAing for, yeah they'd probably rot. On the other hand, I have it on good authority that cats can be quite terrified :)
    ~luge
  • I agree with you; but I think the real geeks will always try to understand things however sugar-coated they are. I mean; a television is just a television, right? Then why do geek kids open them up and try to figure it out?

    I think that, alas, we'll also have dumb users no matter how hard we try to teach them. :)

    But I don't fear for kids' curiosity with things like Lego Mindstorms. These babies make kids and grownups want to play and invent. And that's what's really needed: not something that forces you to learn, but something that makes learning fun.

    I'd even say that the fun part is the reason why people are so reluctant to do mathematics or programming. They figure it has to be a chore. I've seen non-technical grownups (Sociology graduates... Heh heh) toy around with the simple Mindstorms language and make it do things, then clap their hands in wonder as the thing behaved like it should. When I explain to them they're doing simple object-oriented programming, they stare at me blankly, trying to reconcile that fact with the idea they've just had a heck of a good time.

    Heck; I didn't get a job in IT before two years ago, because I figured it was illegal to have a job in something you learned easily and out of pure enjoyment. :)

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • Mine had a holy terror of it after I used a light sensor to make it a motion detector, and start running after the cats
    making loud noises.

    OK, so I've got the cat scaring aspect down. Now I just need to come up with the cash, eh?

    Mindstorms or memory upgrade... Hmm...
  • Hmm.

    Useful? "Just" a curiosity thing? Chemical spills?

    This is a geek site, man! What are you talking about! Of course it's a curiosity thing. Of course it's about fun. Since when do we need something useful (and I have to disagree with your definition; what do you want to do with it, use it for space exploration?) to play with it?

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • "I figured it was illegal to have a job in something you learned easily and out of pure enjoyment. :)"
    I totally agree! I still can't believe they pay me for my job sometimes! Just don't tell my boss! ;)
  • You can do it all with one brick, I think...

    Cross the motors for the back right leg and the front left leg. Put them on the same motor output, one on top of the other. It means that they'll both work at the same time, though with half the power. Use plenty of gears, and voilà.

    As for head, you can do with only one motor... One direction moves it left to right, the other up and down. You need a differential for that.

    I'm not saying it won't be a nightmare of engineering, and if you manage it, I'll be in complete awe. :) But it's feasible, in theory, with one brick, five motors and three motor outputs.

    Also, remember that you can use two bricks and make them communicate between them, so using two of them would work just as well.

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • Mindstorms have a small amount of RAM. Consider it an external memory upgrade, and you're set. :)

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • I totally agree! I still can't believe they pay me for my job sometimes! Just don't tell my boss! ;)

    Don't tell my boss, and I won't tell yours. ;)

    "There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

  • At a risk of starting another Holy War, I'd have said Meccano was better. You could machine your own steel plates to really get creative!
    So how about a /. poll then, Rob?
    First Geek Toys:

    Meccano.

    Lego.

    Technix Lego.

    TV remote (for the script kiddies :) ).

    Had friends instead.

  • About Sensors (Score:3)

    by luge ( 4808 ) <slashdot@DEBIANtieguy.org minus distro> on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @06:49AM (#1602317) Homepage
    Check out Michael Gasperi's [plazaearth.com] page. It is far and away the most extensive discussion of sensor construction, and includes a long list [plazaearth.com] of sensors that he and others have built.
    ~luge
  • Is that a Trojan Rabbit on the cover?

    Fetchez la vache!

  • I know it's been mentioned before, long ago, but while on the subject of the depth and breadth of the O'Reilly library, here's another [onastick.net] one that's sure to be useful to most of us.
  • No books about sex.

    You need a book?!?!?!

    No books about hygeine.

    well, when you never see the outside world anyway ;-)

    No books about dieting.

    You're right, but if you drink enough coffee (as any geek trying to meet a deadline is GOING to, like it or not), you'll be twitching so much you won't have a chance to gain weight!

    No books about exercise.

    About what?

    No books about finance or economics.

    Sigh. This is true. That's why we eventually turn to free software. a) we can't afford software AND hardware, and b) we can't tell if we're being ripped off by a commercial publisher or not . . . so we go free and know no one is screwing us worse than ourselves ;-)

Slashdot Top Deals

Real programmers don't bring brown-bag lunches. If the vending machine doesn't sell it, they don't eat it. Vending machines don't sell quiche.

Close