DHS Monitors Social Media For 'Political Dissent' 385
OverTheGeicoE writes "Recently, TSA's 'Blogger Bob' Burns posted a rant against a cupcake on the TSA blog. Perhaps it made you wonder if TSA and its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security, really understand what we're saying about them, especially online. Well, thanks to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit from the Electronic Privacy Information Center, we now know a lot more about how they monitor online comments aside from 'Blogger Bob.' EPIC has received hundreds of pages of documents regarding DHS's online surveillance program. These documents reveal that DHS has contracts with General Dynamics for '24/7 media and social network monitoring.' Perhaps it will warm your heart to know that DHS is particularly interested in tracking media stories that 'reflect adversely' on the U.S. government generally and DHS specifically. The documents include a report summary that might be representative of General Dynamics' work. The example includes summaries of comments on blogs and social networking sites, including quotes. Then again, you might remember J. Edgar Hoover's monitoring of antiwar activists during the Vietnam War, which certainly wasn't for the protesters' benefit."
Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
From the government that brought us flag@whitehouse.gov [politico.com]. "Homeland security" is a tool used by a media-obsessed administration to justify its ever-increasing intrusiveness. This kind of robotic behavior in which common sense isn't allowed to override unreasonable strictness isn't making us safer, but it is making us miserable. Terrorist attacks have the word "terror" in them for a reason. The killing of innocent victims is just a vehicle for the ultimate goal of instilling paranoia and apprehension to influence behavior, and now we're fretting over jarred cupcakes. Mission accomplished.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
All social media sites are now just playgrounds for marketing teams. There are multi billion dollar indusries built around promoting products/slandering competitors while pretending to be part of the onine community. Most of the big tech companies use sockpuppet accounts to "manage discussion" on Slashdot already.
Why would you care if the government joins them?
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
You're asking me why I care about the government monitoring social media sites because you believe tech companies are paying for sockpuppets on Slashdot? Well, you win the blue ribbon for random rant of the day.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Funny)
Wait - you mean HBGary, whose clock was cleaned by Anonymous? Why would I ask them anything? If they wrote a book, 'How to be a third rate charlatan', I might read it. I'd consider it to be a prerequisite to understanding 'How to be a first rate charlatan' - which would most likely be written by a politician.
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Attempting to label his comment offtopic and subtly ridiculing him with the phrase
...because you believe tech companies are paying for sockpuppets...
as well as the term "random rant" doesn't change the fact that corporations and even the government are, in fact, attempting to influence forum participants with astroturfing and sockpuppetry. Just ask HBGary. We understand why you may feel strongly about this, given that you are a obvious known shill of some sort.
No-ooo. Tell me it ain't so. [adweek.com] If that were the case then the first thing he'd do would be to.... oh ri-ght. I get it now.
But wouldn't that mean SharkLaser was a shill too?
Do not attempt to mess with us or we will crap all over your face.
A truly cunning plan - feeding the shills [youtube.com] until obesity kills them.
I've noticed a pattern of late that seems to separate the fanbois and trolls from the shills. Look for those who post dozens of times a day, have low Slashdot ids, but have only been posting for the last 3 months - they'll make the occasional post that isn't related to the
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I wonder if all of you who have such thorough knowledge (I assume you're telling the truth, I can't be bothered to fact-check) of Slashdot comment pages... I wonder if you realize that there's a whole world out there that has actual real atrocities and tragedies and plots and even shenanigans, none of which relates to "Score: -1 Insightful" on, let's face it, a news aggregator that reads more often like the Onion than like [pick any reputable source of any information].
I mean. I'm sure that there's real con
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Insightful)
Because people trying to market things to me is just the way capitalism works. The government spying on you and monitoring you for political dissent is a TRUE invasion of privacy.
Why people get so bent out of shape because some ads get shown to them will NEVER make sense to me. But the idea that the government spying on you is BETTER? Wow.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
Because people trying to market things to me is just the way capitalism works. The government spying on you and monitoring you
Your government has, and will continue to do many disgraceful things which invade your privacy and limit your freedoms, but In this instance, they're just monitoring public information. Your corporations are not only monitoring, they are actively influencing community discussions (using sockpuppet accounts) while pretending to be part of the community. That is decietful, and in many cases has effectively killed the community (ie, Digg).
The point I'm making is that it doesn't matter if your government monitors/interferes in social media, because all social media sites are already infested and untrustworthy.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
Because people trying to market things to me is just the way capitalism works. The government spying on you and monitoring you
Your government has, and will continue to do many disgraceful things which invade your privacy and limit your freedoms, but In this instance, they're just monitoring public information. Your corporations are not only monitoring, they are actively influencing community discussions (using sockpuppet accounts) while pretending to be part of the community. That is decietful, and in many cases has effectively killed the community (ie, Digg).
The point I'm making is that it doesn't matter if your government monitors/interferes in social media, because all social media sites are already infested and untrustworthy.
Yes, and the point the Government is trying to make here (which is clearly working), is that they can easily take small "innocent" baby steps like this, just as they been doing for the last 20 years, and eventually it will lead to the flock of sheep blindly following without question or much resistance. The way things are going, you'll either be a blind and obedient servant, or you'll be behind bars for being anything but, especially after turning incarceration into a profitable business model. And they've already proven that resistance is futile, based on the utter failures (OWS) to even exercise our right to peaceful assembly. Seems we're not even allowed to do that without it turning into a taser-firing, club-throwing, pepper-spraying good time.
It's so damn ironic that we sit back and laugh at other countries massive moves to oppress or control their citizens, smiling under a cloud of illusion and ignorance that a 200-year old document that framed our Rights actually still means something, or that our own Government isn't guilty of attempting to do the exact same thing.
This model has always been along the lines of death by 1,000 cuts. We cannot continue to be so blind to yet another "slip" of the proverbial knife. It won't be the last if the masses continue to ignore it.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
Why complain about the government?
All social media sites are now just playgrounds for marketing teams. There are multi billion dollar indusries built around promoting products/slandering competitors while pretending to be part of the onine community. Most of the big tech companies use sockpuppet accounts to "manage discussion" on Slashdot already.
Why would you care if the government joins them?
I'll stop caring once I have a proven, valid, and honest answer from the Government as to why they are wasting tax dollars data mining "playgrounds for marketing teams". If it's so "innocent", then why do they care enough to waste a few billion jumping in these discussions? Perhaps that is the more prudent question to ask and focus on.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Insightful)
Why complain about the government?
All social media sites are now just playgrounds for marketing teams. There are multi billion dollar indusries built around promoting products/slandering competitors while pretending to be part of the onine community. Most of the big tech companies use sockpuppet accounts to "manage discussion" on Slashdot already.
Why would you care if the government joins them?
I'll stop caring once I have a proven, valid, and honest answer from the Government as to why they are wasting tax dollars data mining "playgrounds for marketing teams". If it's so "innocent", then why do they care enough to waste a few billion jumping in these discussions? Perhaps that is the more prudent question to ask and focus on.
No shit. "Well it's all public data anyway, no expectation of privacy, so neener!" Yeah, that does explain how they can easily do it. It does not explain why they care to and what they hope to accomplish. The former is not an effective dismissal of the latter no matter how hard you try.
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Do you actually have any proof of this?
Well, I read it in a post by a well known shill. [slashdot.org] So it must be true.
Google FTC antitrust investigation [slashdot.org]
That's exactly the sort of proof by anecdote slander the shills use. It's like you have an inside line into how they work. Fucking amazing.
Interesting post history yourself - my hasn't your style changed since that account was first opened. Just like Bonch. Weird huh?
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
Congratulations, you're the most worthless retarded faggot on the planet for publicly making such a apathetic comment. "Aussie Bob", huh? Go the fuck back to Australia, why don't you? We don't need people like you here in the U.S.
Dear Bonch/SharkLaser/Overly Critical Guy, this is not the US, it's the internet.
Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels who believe that the location their parents fucked in makes them superior.
And that's be "an apathetic" if it was such. Even the timing between your Anonymous Coward shit flinging posts are distinctive. Who ever hired you is an idiot in need of a refund.
Not too worry - you can just work through that old password and username list you pulled off pastebin and grab another Slashdot ID.
The Slashdot Choir Responds (Score:5, Interesting)
You're so right!
-The Choir
For the exception the occasional "law and order" conservative, very few of us here will disagree with you. Here's the thing, I know many people who think the government is really out to protect us. They really think that this monitoring of us is necessary and that if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about - really, I'm paraphrasing a programmer I used to work with and she's actually quite talented, too.
This security theater appeals to many people's emotional need to feel safe and there's no reasoning with them. I would be surprised if intelligence has anything to do with it because I've this fear pervade all levels of society. And as a democracy, excuse me, a republic, we are doomed to live under the tyranny of the scared huddled masses who feed off of the fear that is fed them by an irresponsible, profit hungry, corrupt media.
History is loaded with examples of people using people's fear to override their reason and their intellect. It has worked since the beginning of history and it saddens me that it will be true until the day we are extinct.
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It's called White Knight Syndrome: a lot of males grow up being taught that certain things "need" their protection, but are not given an outlet for this impulse. Consequently, they go on to try and assuage this impulse by finding all sorts of "causes" or "victims" where they can play the hero. In short, they're idealists, but instead of joining the rebel's cause, they joined the empire's.
And in order for this fantasy to survive in their minds, the people they are protecting must "need" their help, but be co
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If you pointed out that they remind you of one of the insane characters from Lexx's third season (Fire and Water), they'd have no idea what you're talking about.
Only because no one watched Lexx beyond one episode. Most people don't even know what it is (is it a car wax?).
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorist attacks have the word "terror" in them for a reason. The killing of innocent victims is just a vehicle for the ultimate goal of instilling paranoia and apprehension to influence behavior, and now we're fretting over jarred cupcakes.
Who is fretting? It's plausible that the dimwits at TSA have been brainwashed to be genuinely terrified of the world, but I don't believe the scared masses exist, and if they do it's a result of the paranoia instilled by the US government and not some angry muppets on the other side of the world. NOBODY I've talked to or know of is personally concerned about exploding cupcakes or nail-files being used to break down the cabin door. It's bullshit and it's time to treat it as such.
Re:Mission accomplished | Be Afraid (Score:4, Insightful)
Ten years ago, 19 hijackers armed only with box-cutters, took over 4 commercial aircraft and 3 of 4 of them into USA militarily & economically sensitive sites while eluding the entire NORAD defense organization, causing nearly 3 thousand deaths. At least, that is the official conspiracy theory, that through a series of extraordinary coincidences in near-perfect alignment, 9/11/2001 "just happened", "and that no one had any idea that such an event was even possible."
Ignored, discounted, and not investigated were such factors as (1) the USA 'Visa Express' program based in Saudi Arabia was used to bring Islamist fighters to the USA for military training for many years and, (2) the fact that at least 8 of 19 hijackers were still alive in the ME and merely victims of identity theft, (3) that 3 office towers built from concrete, steel, & glass fell symmetrically within their own footprints at very nearly the acceleration of gravity in a vacuum, and (4) that senior Bush regime officials were collaborators & signatories to the PNAC document which called for global military hegemony subsequent to a "new Pearl Harbor".
I don't mean to sound callus about the loss of those 3,000 people on 9/11/2001, but 200,000+ people per year die from tobacco-related illnesses, and 20,000+ people per year die from alcohol-related traffic accidents. We Americans have surrendered our birthright Constitution & Bill of Rights, and have waged "preemptive wars" for the past 10 years in 6+ countries, costing over $1.2 Trillion and over 5,000 servicemen killed & 100,000+ GIs seriously wounded. In all that 10 year period, no additional domestic terrorist attacks by foreign islamic terrorists have ever been consummated, and each serious attack attempted have been thwarted by alert civilians, not the USA police state.
How has this vast expenditure of blood & treasure, of the loss of individual freedoms, liberties, and inalienable rights, been worth the minimal risk of new domestic terrorist attacks? I don't see the value ...
Re:Mission accomplished | Be Afraid (Score:5, Insightful)
Shadowy government agent #1: "We need more oil. Let's invade Iraq."
Shadowy government agent #2: "We need an excuse first."
Agent #1: "OK - let's rig the Twin Towers with explosives, making sure none of the thousands of people who work there sees us doing it. Then let's brainwash some Saudis to hijack two planes and fly them into the towers. Then we'll set off the charges and collapse the buildings."
Agent #2: "Why bother with making sure the buildings collapse? Plenty of people will die when they fly planes into them. That should get the world on our side."
Agent #1 "Because there won't be enough people in on the conspiracy with just a simple kamikaze attack. We want to have hundreds of contractors, suppliers, demolition experts, security guards, fire department personnel, building supervisors, etc, etc to bribe to keep quiet for at least ten years."
Agent #2: "Um, OK. Shall we attack another building too?"
Agent #1: "Yes. Let's fire a cruise missile at the Pentagon during morning rush hour."
Agent #2: "Not in the middle of the night when no one would see it?"
Agent #1: "No."
Agent #2: "But there'll be lots of witnesses."
Agent #1: "Don't worry. We'll pay them all to say it was a Boeing 757. And we'll knock down some lampposts on the highway overpass too, because I've just realised a cruise missile doesn't have the same wingspan as a 757. Oh, and we'll confiscate some CCTV footage to make people think we're hiding something."
Agent #2: "But don't we always confiscate CCTV footage when we're investigating something?"
Agent #1: "Yes. But this time, for some reason, it'll be suspicious."
Agent #2: “But if we fire a cruise missile, that would leave a 757 unaccounted for.”
Agent #1: “No problem. We’ll just hijack one ourselves and fly it somewhere like Andrews Air Force Base or Area 51 or somewhere like that, dismantle it, kill all the passengers, burn the luggage and then transport all the wreckage to the Pentagon to scatter around as evidence.”
Agent #2: “I see.”
Agent #1: “Also, because the towers have a lightweight steel tube framework to allow them to sway in the wind, and the Pentagon is made of reinforced concrete, a lot of LiveLeak users will be confused by the different impact shapes. So they’ll be happy to believe in the cruise missile.”
Agent #2: “Um.”
Agent #1: “What’s up?”
Agent #2: “Why don’t we just, er, actually fly another plane into the Pentagon? I mean, by that stage people will already have seen two jumbo jets fly into the Twin Towers, so I don’t see the problem with using a third.”
Agent #1: “For Christ’s sake, how many times do I have to tell you? We want things as complicated as possible so clever people on the internet can spot the holes in our plans.”
Agent #2: “Ah, right.. Sorry. OK, I’ll go get the brainwashing machine and kidnap some Saudis, then we’re good to go.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
To those of you who still have your heads in the sand: Do you at least begin to see now, that the so-called "war on terror" is a bad joke, because the so-called "terrorists" have already won -- and our own government are now the terrorists?
This shit has got to stop. NOW.
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We may not, but they won't either. History isn't on their side here -> every-time a country's military gets out of control and go on a rampage, something worse is evolved, and puts an end to it. It might take some time, but 4,000 years of recorded human history show this pattern is worth placing a wager on.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet Americans continue to enjoy the same rights they've had - they travel where they want, work where they want, vote for who they want, worship or not the god of their choice, speak and write as they always have. FOR A WHILE LONGER.
There, fixed that for you.
You seem to be suffering from some willful disbelief yourself, with a nice big dose of denial: Our elected representatives are not representing us anymore, they are representing the banks and corporations who paid to get them elected. Why don't you take a look at the news once in a while? The TSA is not only making everyone miserable at airports (while handily NOT stopping any so-called terrorist threats), but now they're roaming around at bus stations, and cruising the highways. The TSA is part of Homeland Security, which for all intents and purposes don't answer to anyone except the President, and can now detain anyone indefinitely without charge and without legal representation or due process by merely claiming they are a terrorism suspect. The civil rights and civil liberties that were once guaranteed by the Bill of Rights have more or less been abolished with the stroke of a pen, and no one was able to stop it from happening. So I ask you: where are our so-called "freedoms" now? There may still time to stop this shit from becoming permanent, but only if people like you get their heads out of the sand and pay attention to what's going on. Nobody is going to do it FOR you.
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Actually:
You can't travel where you want. There are plenty of places that are government operated that cannot be gotten to unless you are government personnel, usually of a specific minimum level.
You cannot work where you want, once the government has completely removed the private sector from every major field. This isn't being done through legisation-directly- as much as indirectly through regulation, and by increasing government jobs' footprint in industries. National healthcare. National energy. In
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Interesting)
The government has been doing this for decades, i.e. the comments about Hoover. The old joke that there were more CIA agents in the Communist Party at one point than communists.
The tools change is all. The only worrying thing is how flippant and overt the government is becoming about this. It is like they don't even want to bother pretending to do this covertly any more.
Re:Mission accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
The McCarthy days. That's exactly what came to my mind, when I read the title, and then the summary. Back then, there was a Commie hiding on every corner, now it's a terrorist. And, yes, it's all bullshit.
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Re:Mission accomplished (Score:4, Insightful)
>The old joke that there were more CIA agents in the Communist Party at one point than communists.
Well, that's perhaps the joke. The simple reality is that there *were* more FBI (NSA, etc-- CIA could not operate on US soil, and most of the actual time period was pre-FBI/NSA etc) paid informants in the Communist Party, than actual non-paid members. Go figure :).
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No we want a government that will only listen to its fan mail and not go to the sites that say something bad. If you are complaining about the government you should be happy they are listening to you.
Also if the government is going to monitor against threats agains it's own country, I would expect you get more info from places where there is negative information.
"You have to make people feel safe" (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a quote from a friend's mother, shortly after 9/11, in response to the absurd increase in airport security procedures. As long as people are willing to trade freedom for security, DHS and its ilk will prosper.
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The fact that many people believe it doesn't make it true.
Personally, I' don't want to feel "safe" if it means I'm not paying attention to threats I shouldn't ignore. And given current trends, I feel far more threatened by the government of my own country than I ever did by swarthy bearded foreign terrorists..
Re:"You have to make people feel safe" (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as people are willing to trade freedom for illusion of security, DHS and its ilk will prosper.
There, FTFY.
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TSA finds 4 guns per day at airports [nydailynews.com]
Do you have anything to fix that?
Yes, a program to arm every willing, able, and competent aircraft passenger and aircraft crew member with a pistol loaded with low-velocity ammo.
Only 4 guns a day is a pathetic showing. We can do much better.
Maybe it's time to start up "Bring Your Gun To The Airport" flash mobs where hundreds and hundreds show up armed at every major airport in the US at the same time. Flood the system. A real-world "DDoS" attack.
Funny thing. You could substitute breast milk for a gun and have nearly the same effect. The TS
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This is the triumph of feelings over reality. Build a huge security apparatus that does nothing for the reality of more security, as long as it makes people FEEL safer. Punish people who dare to say things that are true, but might make someone FEEL bad.
When you put feelings over reality, you live as much in a fog as any religion-obsessed friar in the Dark Ages did.
I long to see anyone running for office stand up and say "To hell and gone with your FEELINGS." Or perhaps, "No, I don't FEEL your pain!"
Fuck
Re:"You have to make people feel safe" (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't make me feel "safe". It makes me feel like a prisoner in my own country.
Re:"You have to make people feel safe" (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time I read one of these stories I think of two things.
One is the full quote from my signature (damn Slashdot's absurdly short truncation):
"The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity made by those responsible for the security of a nation." -- Alan Dershowitz
The second is that the founding fathers of the United States did not fear Terrorism. They feared tyranny. All the famous phrases from the American Revolution are phrases attacking unjust laws, unjust abridgment of rights by the sovereign government with no redress, and general what-the-fuck-King-George-edness. And don't say the early Americans had no knowledge of the evils of Terrorism. I'm sure every one of them could remember, remember the fifth of November [wikipedia.org].
It's getting to the point that the DHS is calling anything the directors of the DHS don't like "Terrorism". The whole problem is the damn word. It's meaningless. It means "something that is intended to cause general fear or panic". Gee, that's as clear as a summer day in San Francisco [wikipedia.org]. You know what we used to call the types of events like Oklahoma City and 9/11 before we called them Terrorism? Because they did happen before, and the word 'terrorism'. If the person committing the act was a citizen, we called it Treason. If the person committing the act was a foreign national, we called it an Act of War. Personally, I find those terms a whole lot easier to manage in my head. It makes it really clear what the problem is. Because "causing fear" is too damn easy to do. Hollywood makes millions of dollars a year "causing fear". We have an entire holiday dedicated to how fun it is to "cause fear". Anthropologists and behaviorists will tell us that fear is one of the most primal and varied motivators. You can't make a law against making someone afraid any more than you can make a law against making someone cry. Not that some asshole isn't trying to do exactly that as we speak, I've no doubt.
Congress, the Presidency (the office, not just the man), the DHS specifically, and the TSA most especially have embraced ambiguous language, ambiguous laws, and inconsistent and ever-changing standards. They are using them as an excuse to police and confuse the citizens of this country in ways which the founding fathers found so onerous that they chose to take up arms against. One of the first acts of which was citizens storming a military fort to steal the cannons [wikipedia.org]. To our founding fathers, treason and acts of war were less distasteful than the continued governance of a tyrant.
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TSA finds 4 guns per day at airports [nydailynews.com] (Wouldn't it be absurd to let those guns on the planes?)
Were these amazing non-metallic stealth guns only detectable by a full-body X-ray?
Were they "Man With The Golden Gun"-style devices assembled from what looked like a belt buckle, nail clippers and a shoe heel, with propellent made by mixing hemorrhoid cream with 7-up?
...or were they big lumps of blue steel that would have always been picked up by an old-school metal detector & baggage x-ray combo?
DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Insightful)
DHS = STASI. And this is just the beginning. When it comes to the US government you can never be too paranoid. Yet another reason not to use facebook. But it's not just facebook I bet. Forums like this or any forums critical of the TSA are obviously being monitored for dissent. For 'domestic extremists', which really means anyone who would advocates abolishing the TSA or DHS.
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Insightful)
We haven't reached that point yet, but if people in general continue to accept the intrusions as necessary, I'm not sure what short of civil war will stop it.
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Informative)
We haven't reached that point yet, but if people in general continue to accept the intrusions as necessary, I'm not sure what short of civil war will stop it.
Would it be OK if we try writing letters to our representatives first?
Here's a start
Dear Congressman Cashdrawer,
As you know, the Air Marshall service is currently patting itself on the back for scrambling fighter jets tp save us from a guy who lit a cigarette in an airplane toilet. Also, an alert screener helped prevent obesity by confiscating a cupcake with an excessive amount of "gel-like" frosting. Despite these major successes, there is reason to be concerned about how funds are being spent by TSA. Although Facebook may well be a threat to "Life as we know it" it seems that the TSA does not understand its mission. It is monitoring social media sites looking for "reports that reflect adversely on the U.S. Government, DHS, or prevent, protect, respond government activities" (sic). However, the purpose of TSA is not to protect itself or the US Government, it is to protect the American people. Please do your F***ing job.
Thank you
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Make an appointment to visit their office. Then they know you're not just someone who dashed off an email casually.
I wonder if visiting their campaign staff would have more effect.
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Here is a list of the websites to be monitored:
Social approach, go.usa.gov, wikileaks, cryptome, Google Blog Search, Technorati, Foreign Policy Passport, Wired's Danger Room and Threat Level blogs, Homeland Security Today, NTARC, LA Now, NY Times Lede Blog, STRATFOR, Drudge Report, Huffington Post, BNONews, MEMRI, Inf
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Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, it is possible (and indeed quite easy!) to be overly paranoid. For example, when you start comparing the DHS to an organization that routinely executed dissidents, that's being too paranoid.
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There is a trend here, and that trend is certainly heading towards a Gestapo / Stasi-like situation. Taking into account that trend with the assumption that it
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That's a slippery slope argument, it could prove to be true, however there's nothing inherent about our current situation that suggest that it will continue unchecked for 10, 20 or more years. Eventually people will forget why it is that we're putting up with this bullshit. Starting in 2019 we'll start to have voters who were born after 9/11 and even those who were born as late as 1997 are probably not going to be emotionally wrapped up in it the way that people of our age or older are.
Think about Pearl Har
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Informative)
The US has a pattern of desperate times approximately every 80 years:
Revolutionary War to Civil War (four score and seven years)
Civil War to Great Depression
Great Depression to the current Great Terrorist Attacks
The continuing degradation of our Rights in bits and pieces is just part of a larger pattern and cycle the US cannot seem to escape.
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:4, Informative)
Did you actually just suggest we would have greater rights if we had remained colonies of Britain?
Seems to have worked well for Canada.
Just sayin'.
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Did you actually just suggest we would have greater rights if we had remained colonies of Britain?
Seems to have worked well for Canada.
Just sayin'.
Er, what?
We do not have greater rights in Canada, not by a very long stretch. The only thing that keeps Canadians safe from our government is the fact that our government doesn't seem to actually do anything. At all. Except absorb tax money.
We don't even have a right to bear arms in this country, we don't have any rights to property, our courts and entire legal system is a complete joke... The police are completely above reproach and are entirely off the hook, our police chiefs lie publically and nothing ev
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It doesn't take 10, 20, or more years. Adolph and his thugs worked hard to get where they could stage their Kristallnacht. Let's call it 5 years of serious groundwork, followed up with a metamorphic event.
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Every time you lie and claim that the US is just like Nazi Germany
Yeah, Nazi Germany in 1933 was exactly like Nazi Germany in 1945. There is only one constant "Nazi Germany".
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Insightful)
When the government has created an end run around the Constitiution & habeas corpus, the proper question is, "Are we paranoid enough?"
Gitmo is still in business. Extreme rendition is a fact of life. And what with the US trying to extradite a UK citizen from the UK for trial in the US for something that happened in the UK, when the government of the UK refused to prosecute him for said 'crime', I think we all need to ask that question.
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And what with the US trying to extradite a UK citizen from the UK for trial in the US for something that happened in the UK, when the government of the UK refused to prosecute him for said 'crime', I think we all need to ask that question.
This happened in Canada too, with Mark Emory.
Our Government shipped out him nice and proper. Its illegal to do that in Canada, according to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but no one here is actually read that interesting little document. At least in the US, people have heard of the Constitution.
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:4, Interesting)
The East Germans did kill dissidents in the West, but at home they like to mess with peoples minds long term- tell a joke 10 years, protest 10++ years, cover for an escape ect.
You also lost your job, risked your wider family and friends been pulled down with you.
If you did "hang yourself" during protective custody - a sealed coffin and no questions.
If a family member got to the West and made problems, they did like to use family/friends who where left behind.
Set up a meeting in the West (visa out), tell us when and where and your free...
Your child will not disappear into state care
As for the US, the no fly list is a start, freezing bank accounts, targeted raids over state or federal laws, diesel therapy (shackled and been being transported from prison to prison over weeks, months), does your lawyer have a security clearance, psychiatric care...
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:4, Insightful)
Apparently you haven't heard of Anwar al-Awlaki.
Re:DHS = Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh jesus crust.
No. No. no. no no no no no no no no.
First off, the DHS isn't that evil
Second off, STASI isn't that bumbling and stupid.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A larger percentage of the Police States of Amerika's population is jail than ever where in STASI and KGB heydays.
In all fairness to the KGB and STASI, the reason that they didn't jail as many people as the the US does now is because they didn't have the same level of African-Americans, Aboriginals or Latinos to disproportionately imprison.
Re: (Score:3)
And the quote at the bottom of the page (Score:5, Funny)
"Paranoia doesn't mean the whole world isn't out to get you."
I think Slashdot has become self aware.
History ryhmes (Score:3)
Re:History ryhmes (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:History ryhmes (Score:4, Informative)
Re:History ryhmes (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm getting tired of copy-pasting this for people, but fine:
SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
Source. [gpo.gov]
Either the law doesn't allow anyone from the US to be detained, or else it already did allow it and this law didn't change it. Considering that the Supreme Court already ruled that detainees in Gitmo have habeas corpus rights, there's no way a law taking those rights from citizens could stand.
I know it's popular around here to pretend the US government is some dystopic comic book empire, but open your eyes. It's simply not true.
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Considering that the Supreme Court already ruled that detainees in Gitmo have habeas corpus rights,
Yes. Now explain the fact that the government has completely ignored this ruling, as well as the ruling that Gitmo is illegal.
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(d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
When powerful governments are not limited in their application of Military Force, they will abuse that force without limit until stopped by extreme action. Please read history for the the numerous examples.
Re: (Score:3)
If you're so sure, here's the full text [gpo.gov]. Point to the section supporting your claim. I've challenged several people to do so since the bill was signed, and not one of them has.
Re:History ryhmes (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps you should read it. It specifies that military detention is FORBIDDEN for Citizens, Resident Aliens, and ANYONE ELSe who is captured/arrested within the borders of the USA. Military detention is ALLOWED (but not required) for anyone who doesn't meet the above requirements.
The key section you missed was:
Note that phrase "existing law or authorities relating to the detention of..."
And "existing law" does NOT allow military detention of US Citizens unless they're engaged in an act of war against the USA outside the USA. INSIDE the USA, they're covered by normal law enforcment, absent a declaration of martial law, which hasn't happened.
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You might want to look at what happened to Jose Padilla before you make that claim.
Re:History ryhmes (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think the DHS should be scaled back and reined in, but this is really over the top. DHS can monitor, but they can do very little with the information, and furthermore DHS isn't using secret information when they are monitoring social media sites.
More detail - please (Score:4, Informative)
Link to some more sources people
http://cryptome.org/2012/01/0035.htm [cryptome.org]
http://www.dhs.gov/files/publications/gc_1281732303362.shtm#3 [dhs.gov]
anonymous speech (Score:2, Interesting)
this is why free speech can sometimes necessitate anonymous speech. Tt seems that the people in charge of the government are fearing revolution by the people more each and every day to me.
I hope our Gov't is watching the news... (Score:2)
SOPA? Really?
b-b-b-b-but the politicians all said (Score:2)
right.
Hey DHS (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's some dissent for you: Fuck You. Fuck you and everything related to this systematic destruction of civil liberties in the US.
Re:Hey DHS (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, in case I didn't get their attention: I'm an Islamic terrorist socialist nazi communist with bombs. Yeah, bombs. Also Obama. Did I mention bombs?
Hope their filters work well enough.
Re:Hey DHS (Score:4, Insightful)
So they can attempt to... I don't know... protect civilians from people that don't like the US or it's self loathing people?
They are constructing psychological portraits of millions of people. They are using specialized software that, presumably, can collect posts of users, collate them, and classify their posts based on various criteria (such as the level of literacy, the political orientation, etc.)
Now, why would anyone need that information? Under what circumstances it may become usable? What could possibly trigger the need for the government to sort citizenry into large groups? What would the government do with those groups once they are built?
The answers to that aren't pleasant. Unless you are the government, of course. Currently the government has no power to act on that knowledge. Perhaps they are planning to have that corrected?
Monitoring is fine (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd expect them to read postings and keep an eye out for people threatening violence. That's a good thing. If someone stands up in a town square and yells that they're going to go shoot the mayor, I'd expect cops to take note. Where it becomes bad is if they harass or in any way mistreat people who aren't threatening violence. Is there any evidence that they're doing that?
Re:Monitoring is fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Unconstitutional, of course (violated the protestor's right to freedom of assembly at the place they wanted to assembe at), but highly effective. Got the protesters away from the action and away from the camera where they could be ignored and/or beaten into a pulp.
Re: (Score:3)
Yup, and that's a terrible thing. But does it have anything to do with this story? The abuses of protestors are being carried out by cops, frequently at the behest of mayors and other local leaders. Leaders who, as local politicians, are extremely vulnerable to local movements to force them out of office. And yet no one seems to talk or care about local politics, preferring to focus their outrage on groups like the TSA and DHS. Groups which really aren't doing all that much harm... lots of expensive, i
Cupcakegate? (Score:2, Insightful)
That must have passed me by.
I can see why they'd show their reasoning behind it, so I can't really say they're "ranting" about it. Imagine if the TSA had to "rant" about every single one of their decisions they made? Wouldn't that be the transparency behind their decisions that we're hoping for?
The tone of the cupcake blog post seems a bit harsh, but the information conveyed and the link to past events which helped support such thinking is one I wish would come up in every single complaint we have against t
Monitor this motherfuckers. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Obama was Bush's 3rd term (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup Bush was an idiot. Yup Obama is keeping the same pro-wall street, spend happy policies of Bush. There is not much difference between the spending habits of rank and file Dems and Reps, except for a few drastic differences like Ron Paul. The two parties may want to spend on different things, but they really don't want to cut.
While the Tea Party did start last election cycle with Paul, it's been hijacked by various people trying to lead a grassroots headless organization. Some are bad and get attention in the worse ways. No different than the various occupy movements not having a specific leader.
But the core belief of a small gov that follows the constitution is valid. Yes Bush was a complete and utter idiot sockpuppet. How he was elected twice baffles me. But Obama really blew his hope and change. Senator O was against warrantless wiretaps, was against the Feds being involved with state legal rights for medical marihuana, was going to close Gitmo, was against the war in Iraq, was going to close redundancies in the government. 4 years later he's broken all of those promises. Yes we're out of Iraq, but it was at Bush's timetable and not any sooner. Oh and the money trail hasn't changed, Obama is still in bed with the same big business/big bank people Bush was. Obama's DOJ has even given up on prosecuting anyone responsible for the wall street disasters. [businessinsider.com] Hell even his Obama care was all pro-big business. If it was a mandated government program that's one thing, mandating private companies for health care, and then limiting new hospitals for competition is obvious lobbying by the existing health care insurance system.
So if you're happy with Obama being basically a 3rd term of Bush and want one more, then vote Dem or any of the other Rep candidates. Want a chance for something different, go with Ron Paul
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
He's anti-gay-rights and anti-abortion, I wouldn't call that half-way decent social policy by first-world standards.
Explaining racism (Score:3)
Like many a carebear you do not get what racism really is.
"95% of black males in Washington are criminal" is NOT a racist statement IF it is true. If it is true, then it is simply an observation of fact.
"95% of black makes are criminal" has a small chance of not being racist but since it is highly unlikely the 95% of mid/south Africa males are criminal, it most likely is racist.
Racism: Blacks can't see well at night and are therefor not suited to be soldiers.
Medical diagnosis: This black person suffers from
Bork The Signal-to-Noise Ratio (Score:2)
Just start adding this in everything you post online:
#PBUH #S.A.W.W.
If you wanna get really creative, add the full phrases in Modern Standard Arabic.
How is this not illegal? (Score:2)
Isn't creating an account in a fictitious name illegal? Haven't people been prosecuted for this?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You make some interesting points, and it is true the government at all levels can indeed do various bad things for all sorts of reasons, but the problem is that coordination of some sort is so darn useful. For example, what are you going to do when someone pollutes your groundwater? Call the EPA? Who is going to prevent endless feuding between your neighbors with guns? The Justice Department? (At least, in places that still have a reasonable level of economic order.) Who is going to maintain the roads? Who
With a name like Homeland Security... (Score:3)
... who honestly could not have seen this coming?
Social Network Monitoring? (Score:3)
To Be Fair.. (Score:5, Funny)
DHS was going to monitor Islamic sites, but they couldn't figure out all the squigglies. Since the equipment was already bought, and the contract to their buddies were already handed out, they figured, fuck it, we'll us it to monitor Americans. At least we can understand the language.
It's not the monitoring, it's the intent (Score:3)
In all fairness to DHS and its potential intentions, there isn't necessarily anything nefarious about the mere act of monitoring social media. What if the intent of the monitoring is introspective, actively seeking out criticisms of their performance with the intention of improving it?
I'm not saying the intent actually is that noble, but it could be, lacking damning proof to the contrary.
Yes, DHS/TSA is that stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
speech that 'reflects adversely'... (Score:3)
...Is another man's "domestic terrorism", or "hate speech".. or several other labels that lets the government take it down, and detain the writer/contributors ( and soon.. mere readers of such forbidden fruit )
All for your protection.. save the children.. !
Real security (Score:3)
How about some real security? Security from unemployment, from medical bankruptcy, from foreclosure.
We could have spent a third of that 1.6 Trillion to give us security from crumbling infrastructure (and make a good dent in unemployment). Security from insurance of all kinds reneging on the deal as soon as a claim is filed would be good.
How about some financial security for middle class households? Why doesn't the 'family values' party value the family enough to make sure the parents have time to be with their kids and that it's not spent worrying about the mortgage?
Re: (Score:2)
The office of at least one of the more corrupt U.S. state Governors monitors online posts for politically unfavorable viewpoints and has even taken action [kansascity.com] against them.
King Sam lost that one, though. Got pwned by a high school student.
Wow, the logic astounds me (Score:3)
The cases for making nuclear reactors more safe are from more ancient history and from other parts of the world as well.
And single the only nukes ever fell on Japan by US bombers clearly the US is safe from nuclear attack?
Congrats on a near perfect example of thinking the US is not part of the rest of the world. Hope your magic border stops things that happened elsewhere from happening within your country.