Fastest Growing US Export To China: Education 147
hackingbear writes "While we are importing billions of 'cheap' products labeled 'Made in China,' the fastest growing export from U.S. to China does not even need a label. Chinese parents are acutely aware that the Chinese educational system focuses too much on rote memorization, so Chinese students have flocked to overseas universities and now even secondary schools, despite the high cost of attending programs in America. Chinese enrollment in U.S. universities rose 23% to 157,558 students during the 2010-2011 academic year, making China by far the biggest foreign presence. Even the daughter of Xi Jinping, the presumed next president of China, studies as an undergraduate at Harvard. This creates opportunities for universities to bring American education directly to China. Both Duke and New York University are building campuses in the Shanghai area to offer full-time programs to students there."
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA:
So those parents send their kids to US schools to learn "morality"?
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Better question: So those parents send their kids to US schools to avoid a curriculum focused too much on rote memorization?
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So those parents send their kids to US schools to avoid a curriculum focused too much on rote memorization?
How many Chinese nationals do you know? Having gone to a university with a large contingent of non-U.S.-citizens, I can tell you that these American schools really are valued for their ability to educate beyond memorization tasks. I have heard many such stories from those who have come here to study.
And it extends into the high school realm, as well. The city where I grew up was quite popular for immigrants due to the low cost of living coupled with good jobs in the medical and engineering fields. As
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, not really, it is more of a status mark than anything else. High-ranking Chinese Communist party members (because most of the kids who end up in the US universities will be from rich families, and in China the rich families are connected to a certain political party) have, as all Communist Party leaders everywhere, a penchant for all things Western, especially American.
If you make a list of all the kids of ex-communist leaders from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe (especially the parts of Eastern Europe where the influence of the Communist parties is still strong, whatever their current name is), and you'll see it is a definite trend.
It isn't about education, it is about image.
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Probably meant not just morality itself, but personal character that encompasses a strong sense of morality. I know many Chinese parents who've immigrated to the US with their children lament the deterioration of individual character back home, and the negative influence of modern Chinese society -- too much materialism, too little compassion, too much deference to groups, too little room for thinking on one's own -- and the rigid framework of exams that strangles the education experience. I know most peopl
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but as much it occurs in the US, for them the distinction is still clear
Just the opposite. Seeing how damaging it in US, they want none of it at home.
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I haven't encountered any of such sentiment in my conversations with fellow Chinese immigrants. This is in an American college town btw, with highly educated parents. Even two years ago when I was back in China, the sentiment was that education abroad was much more holistic and comprehensive, focusing on knowledge rather than climbing up the exam placement roll sheets.
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education abroad was much more holistic and comprehensive, focusing on knowledge rather than climbing up the exam placement roll sheets.
"Abroad" or "in US"?
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Abroad, including the US. The US and Canada being the primary destinations, with Europe trailing.
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I see. In Russia it's the opposite, US-style education (memorization in elementary to high school, disjoint mini-courses and schmoozing in universities) is seen as bane and cancer.
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To many of the older Chinese, some of whom actually bought into the premise of communism, this is anathema -- and the youth culture in China is not the place to learn values that conflict with pure greed.
Just my thoughts on working with and being friends
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure. Have you any idea of what Chinese ethics consist of? Typically, it's "I got mine, screw you" and "how can I work this situation to my personal advantage?" I'm not saying all Chinese are like this, but it seems pretty common to me in their culture.
So I see we have already successfully exported US ethics.
GP is a troll (Score:4, Insightful)
GP is nothing but a lousy troll
If you forgot, here's what GP wrote:
Have you any idea of what Chinese ethics consist of? Typically, it's "I got mine, screw you"
How can anyone ever take such crap seriously?
People, of any racial background, come in all kinds of personalities - some good, some bad, some in between
By saying that only the Chinese have the "I got mine, screw you" mentality, GP has shown off two fallacies:
I. People of all races - not just those from one specific racial background - have this "I got mine, screw you" trait
II. The Chinese, like all people, come in the "Good", the "Bad", and the "Ugly" varieties
Sure, there are Chinese with the "Screw You" POV
But there are also Chinese who do not subscribe to that POV
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According to Marriam Webster online morality has several definitions, one of which is "conformity to ideals of right human conduct" which might eventually have some bearing on human rights. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/morality [merriam-webster.com]
Relatively speaking, the US grants better human rights than China does so yes, this does actually make sense though it might not be exactly what the parents intend.
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No, they come here to learn how to be the exploiters. Ferengi I mean american economics.
not new (Score:1)
This has been going on for some time, for a number of reasons, not least the profit motive. Several English schools and American universities expanded into Asia (especially China) during the boom years. There are also several universities with presence in the Middle East. It's harder than it looks, when you try to meld two educational schools of thought, and recruiting staff for work abroad is harder than many schools think. There have been several high profile flame-outs.
International Students Pay More (Score:3)
I've read that part of the motivation for admitting more international students is purely financial... universities can charge more, so they have an incentive to have more international students. For the foreign students, there's a certain level of prestige associated with attending an American university, especially for Asian countries which place some additional importance on English language skills.
So... when does higher education bubble burst? Everyone is expecting it to. It makes no sense that while the economy is tanking, colleges can just continue to charge more money at rates considerably higher than cost of living adjustments...
Re:International Students Pay More (Score:5, Informative)
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There's a pretty easy way to stop the university from doing that: in-state tuitions are usually low because the university is supported by state funding. Make it so they get a fixed amount *per* in-state student. So if in-state tuition is $12K and out-of-state is $30k, the state gives $18K per student, and the university has no incentive to recruit out-of-state.
If, on the other hand, the state is currently giving the university less than that $18k, then the state is using out-of-state students to subsidiz
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There's a pretty easy way to stop the university from doing that: in-state tuitions are usually low because the university is supported by state funding. Make it so they get a fixed amount *per* in-state student. So if in-state tuition is $12K and out-of-state is $30k, the state gives $18K per student, and the university has no incentive to recruit out-of-state.
In our current political climate, it is still the smarter business decision to go with the out-of-state students. That $30k is guaranteed for a non-resident, where $18k out of $30k for a resident is submitted to the whims of politicians, and recent history does not give much confidence it will still be $18k in the future.
If, on the other hand, the state is currently giving the university less than that $18k, then the state is using out-of-state students to subsidize cheap tuition for in-state students, and nobody in-state should be complaining that an out-of-state student is paying for your kid's education.
If the state is giving the university less than $18k, it is the university's responsibility to charge more than $12k in-state tuition to make up the difference. It is not the state's prob
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So... when does higher education bubble burst? Everyone is expecting it to. It makes no sense that while the economy is tanking, colleges can just continue to charge more money at rates considerably higher than cost of living adjustments...
They can for as long as there are 'enough' students, domestic or otherwise, to keep them in business.
Free education is a benefit to society, but in America there's too much anti-socialism and anti-service sentiment at this point so yes, we're seeing a reversion to the middle ages where only the wealthy could afford education.
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I wonder which 'school' you went to. I was an international student myself. We were not talking about how we were going to default on our student loans, we were all talking about how we were going to negotiate our one year of practical training into green cards.
It took me only 18 months to pay off my 53K loans but it took me 7 more years, and 16K to get the green card. Of course, I was handicapped by trying to remain as independent from the company employing me as possible. I still do not know whether i
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And it's even better then that (worse?)
When I went to school (and this was back in early 2000) most of the international students I was friends with (and all form a different set of countries, both from Europe and Asia) all would get US based financial aid (especially loans) and of course all bragged about not having to worry about paying the loans back since they were not going to stay int he US>
Not sure if this attitude still exists or can be gotten away with today.
I call bullshit on this. When doing my MS in CS, most of my classmates were from India and China. None of them could receive financial aid or student loans. Some could get a US scholarship if they were doing a Ph.D. and were the creme-de-la-creme, but the majority had to pay out-state-fees out of pocket... and they could only come to study if they could prove the means for paying health insurance and stuff like that. For Indian and Chinese families, even those in the middle class, that's a fortune.
On top
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I can assure you that any "credit score" you might have in another country is utterly irrelevant to banks and lending facilities within the US, and I see little reason to believe it is any different going in the opposite direction.
Re:International Students Pay More (Score:4, Informative)
You, sir, are a racist asshole. I'm a college professor at a college that actively recruits Chinese students. I guess I missed the faculty meeting where they told us to never let Chinese students fail, because I fail them just as often as American students.
You're right, that these Chinese students have generally failed the Chinese university admission test. But a lot of Americans don't get SAT scores good enough to get into MIT either. The difference between the Chinese and American systems is that in the US, we have a broad range of institutions, with different expectations and admissions criteria, so if you don't get into MIT, there are other places you can go -- and many of them have lots of experience teaching students at your level, so you'll learn more than you would at MIT. In China, you either get into the top school in the nation, or you don't go to college.
The Chinese aren't washouts or entitled rich brats any more than American students are. They're coming here because they want the same things American students do: education that matches their talents, at a price they can afford. You worry about Chinese students applying pressure to colleges to avoid failure. I haven't seen it happen, but it's not a new thing: wealthy Americans have been trying this for centuries. And at a college with integrity, Chinese who want to bribe their way to a degree will have no more luck than the countless Americans who've tried it.
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I'm a college professor at a college that actively recruits Chinese students. I guess I missed the faculty meeting where they told us to never let Chinese students fail, because I fail them just as often as American students.
This brings back the memory ...
I enrolled into this calculus class, and I was the only foreigner there
So it came time for the first test
It's not a multiple choice test, I can tell you that
During the test, I swear I could hear heavy breathing all around me - my American classmates, are like groaning and breathing heavily
By the time I finished all the regular questions, I still had 20 minutes left, so ... not wanting to waste time, I did all the bonus questions as well
Two days later, the professor invited me
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Assuming your story is true, it's awful. There are racist assholes everywhere, and you had the bad luck to have one as your professor, but hopefully this guy is the exception rather than the rule. Many American university administrations will come down very hard on overtly racist professors. You should have told him you would continue to do the bonus questions unless he tells you not to do so in writing. Then, after he's assigned your grade, go talk to a dean or the provost.
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Lol bonus questions? In calc? Where did you go, arizona state?
Isn't that a threat? (Score:1)
SO THEY can take out loans and go home (Score:1)
SO THEY can take out loans and go home and never pay them off.
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not because of "note memorization" (Score:5, Interesting)
Disclaimer: I am from China.
From where I stand and what I observed from my friends and relatives, one important reason of sending their kids abroad is because they want to evade some of the selection process in the Chinese education system, like the national entrance exam for colleges, which is extremely competitive. Do they really care about the quality of the education? I am not so sure. It is a strategic and trendy thing to do, at least for many families I know.
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Should also keep them from having to "intern" at Foxconn...
Weird (Score:2)
It's so weird that people say the U.S. educational system is so bad, yet things like this happen (people coming from other countries to attend). I mean below college/university level. (Though even community colleges get many people coming from other countries -- even weirder.)
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For the same reason people keep saying "U.S. internet is slow" but if you look at the actual numbers we are in third place (tied with the European Union)*, behind Japan and Korea, but ahead of China, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Brazil, et cetera. Oftentimes common knowledge like "education sucks" and "internet is slow" and "Betamax failed because it didn't allow porn" is provably wrong when you actually dig into the subject and uncover the real truth.
*
*source: speedtest
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There are two things in the American system that are invaluable for Chinese students: English and textbooks.
The ruling class in China have for the past 2000 yeas adopted a policy of manipulating the language to make people obedient. This has been going on for so many generations that now even the upper class themselves have to resort to foreign sources for proper education.
I know this is difficult to believe. Can one of the oldest surviving civilizations be so corrupted? Actually this kind of culture is ve
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The US's is better? (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess our educational system is the same as our democracy, it's the worst kind of that type (education/government,) except for all the others that have been tried?
Re:The US's is better? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's also trendy to bash anything U.S. on Slashdot.
Fuck that butthurt noise.
I'm a US citizen. I can handle seeing statistics that show that my country is lagging others in some ways. To me, that's a call that we should be looking for ways to improve -- not that we should rationalize why the statistics aren't valid.
As a whole, US citizens seem to be *extremely* sensitive to criticism. We've been told all our lives that we're special, we're #1, we can't be beat. Then when we see data that suggesting, hey, maybe someone else is #1, instead of looking to be
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Nope
Mr. Jeremy is not bashing the United States of America
What Mr. Jeremy did was to be honest, that he recognizes that the United States of America isn't perfect, that criticisms of the USA can be used to make America better
I, a non-American, have a lot of respect for Americans such as Mr. Jeremy
On the other hand, butthurts like you, only want to hear praises, and you are doing nothing to help your own country
You have no respect from anyone - for you do not even respect yourself
Re:The US's is better? (Score:5, Insightful)
Key distinction: The US *grade school* educational system is awful. The US college/university system is excellent. It kinda has to be, to repair the intellectual shambles found in the average US high school graduate's head.
(Full disclosure: I'm a college professor, so I'm kinda biased.)
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(Correction: I should have said American K-12 is awful, not just grade school.)
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The U.S. Higher Ed. system is just as pathetic--in most cases, more so--than the K-12 system. Your supposed theory that the professors "pick up the slack for the poor results they get during orientation" is asinine because it was those idiots that baked the current batch of teachers teaching K-12!
Higher Ed. in this country... ...is fluffy. ...is taught by unqualified instructors who can't get their pompous heads out from their puckered holes long enough to admit that sometimes, they might be wrong. ...is ob
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The grade school system is terrible and needs improvement. Luckily they do not run the university system. The US consistently has more top universities than any other country.
US News and World Report: http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world [usnews.com]
ARWU (compiled by Shanghai Jiao Tong University): http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp [arwu.org]
QS World Rankings (compiled by a London corp): http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011 [topuniversities.com]
French universities get underrated in rankings (Score:2)
The grade school system is terrible and needs improvement. Luckily they do not run the university system. The US consistently has more top universities than any other country.
US News and World Report: http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world [usnews.com] ARWU (compiled by Shanghai Jiao Tong University): http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp [arwu.org] QS World Rankings (compiled by a London corp): http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011 [topuniversities.com]
One Small example, Stanford, who is #3 in several rankings, has 8 Nobel laureates and 1 Fields Medal among its alumni, pretty good isn't it?
However, this example is completed with the École normale supérieure - Paris (usually out of the top30), despite being very small (compared to the number of Stanford students), it has 12 Nobel laureates and 10 Fields medal.
In France, research isn't as strictly linked to the university (due to the way legal setting is there), as it is in the US, I guess that ma
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There's a difference between primary education and higher education, both in the material taught, and what you as a student are supposed to learn from it.
Primary education exists to teach you the basics, to build a foundation, lay the groundwork. Higher education is where you take everything you learned previously to a higher level. You apply it. You improve it. You make it fit you and the way you want your life to be.
The U.S. is failing miserably at primary education. But it excels at higher education. The
we reluctantly admited more in 1980s (Score:3)
Some thing missing here. (Score:3)
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Lots of Chinese parents use their kids to get ILLEGALLY OBTAINED money out of the country.
A lifesaver for many colleges (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a professor. My college's strategy for dealing with the economic crisis basically boils down to "let's get us some wealthy Chinese students up in here." They don't qualify for financial aid or tuition reduction, so it's full-price, cash money on the table. And it's a great cross-cultural thing for both them and our American students.
Somebody elsewhere said that bringing in Chinese students is wrong, because they are displacing qualified American students. But for many colleges, that's not how it works right now. With the economy down, colleges are having more trouble filling seats with qualified students who can pay. Chinese students aren't kicking out Americans: they're taking empty seats left by Americans who can't afford college because their Dad got laid off. (That shouldn't be allowed to happen. But trust me, it does.)
One bad effect of the Chinese influx is that it does allow colleges to keep charging high tuitions rather than lowering them as the demand drops. But for a lot of reasons (tenure, pension debt, health insurance costs), tuition prices are not very elastic. For quite a few colleges, the choice is stark: admit more international students, or wither and die.
Great whole in China (Score:1)
importing US academic liberals (Score:3)
It will be interesting to see the generational culture clash, when their kids come home from very liberal arts colleges and universities in the US.
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The US has plenty of excellent public and private schools. These families are aware of that, and will choose where to live carefully. At the primary and secondary level, you also have to consider that these families are interested in obtaining a North American diploma to ensure acceptance in western universities. They also seem to be accutely aware of the cost of education in North America and attempt to establish some sort of residence status in order to pay local rates.
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Not when it comes to college and post-grad it isn't. [forbes.com]
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It's not about averages or the norm, but the high end - Ivy League.
English-speaking and being one of the main places to do business are advantages. There's also the quality of life and democracy.
Probably some intent to stay too. If they can get into top-end universities on merit and afford to pay for it, far as I'm concerned they're welcome. Not only do we score one fine mind for free, China loses one.
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That is the worst description of IQ I have ever read.
Here read this so you know what the hell IQ is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iq [wikipedia.org]
and here is the second part of your post, it is referred to as Emotional Intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence [wikipedia.org]
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There are at least two kinds of intelligence. Call the first one "IQ". It is the memorization of facts and conclusions. Anything that you can add "and it will always be so and we know WHY it it will always be so" to.
This is a terrible definition of IQ.
Re:IQ vs Street Smarts (Score:5, Insightful)
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While there is something to what you say, this becomes less true as you age and the IQ test assumes that you've had specific education. Not being able to solve an equation because I didn't take the applicable class doesn't tell you how intelligent I am or am not.
Re:IQ vs Street Smarts (Score:5, Insightful)
Those kinds of things America works real well at because they take SOCIAL SKILLS. It involves dealing with controversy, arguments, and idiots on un-named web message boards.
And America is the king of social skills. We teach people how to get along without the rule of an Iron Fist.
America's definition of "compromise" is "our way or the highway". It's not social skills you're good at, it's might makes right.
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More demand = higher prices for everyone
Unlikely. A university is closer to a non-profit than a corporation (with some notable exceptions). Foreign students probably reduce the cost for in-state students since foreign students must pay out-of-state tuition and can't receive financial aid.
Tuition prices have skyrocketed recently not because the cost of education has increased or the demand has increased. It is because austerity measures have reduced the amount of money that the States send to the universities. Most US universities are deeply in th
Re:Econ 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
each seat filled by a foreign student is one less domestic student in that seat and robs the US of future domestic production
Are you kidding me? Foreign students are doing more than just getting an education here... they are learning the American way. They're being exposed to our values, life-style, religions, government institutions, free-market economy, etc, etc, etc.
Some of those foreigners will one day run their country (or be near the top), and they will have more American values than if they did not attend. You're creating a potential ally, or at least someone who is likely to be more friendly to the US.
That is worth a lot.
Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yes, you're completely right. You're making them more like us--creating more shared values between us... but it's those values that give America its competitive edge. So if they adopt them, they will be more friendly toward us, but also more competitive with us. It's a double-edged sword.
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And this is why i think it is great once I get passed my lizard-brain knee-jerk jingoism living in all our hearts. Give my pre-frontal cortex a chance to way into the discussion and I think this is great.
My one concern is the last line of the summery, "Both Duke and New York University are building campuses in the Shanghai area to offer full-time programs to students there" NOOOOO that defeats the point!!! The only way you get the benefits you describe is if they learn in the U.S., immersed in the cultur
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Indeed that is not good. And won't be solved having the schools "over there" either. Not sayign you suggested that, just coming back to one of my points. That said, then the problem is one of execution and setting expectations. And well, frankly, maybe a problem of numbers. But it is hard to say, "oh we'll limit the number to just 10 so they can't stay in their own little cultural group" ... but that is my kneejerk reaction to the picture you paint; which is one I too have seen if I'm honest :(
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I agree with everything you said except the second sentence ("It is not a double edged sword").
Even if the positives of free-trade outweigh the negatives, there ARE downsides to free-trade, and trying to paint it as perfect is disingenuous.
When this country is producing a good and another (cheaper, developing) country learns to produce it, industries here are destroyed, workers are displaced, and it does create structural unemployment.
This is a negative by anyones standards.
We think the movement to other go
Re:Econ 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you are creating the biggest competitor imaginable. Imagine a China in 30 years that can innovate like the US, China where people can think about science and engineering like the US has in the last 50 years. If you are a dairy farmer you want to sell milk, not your best cows to your customers.
It is not a zero sum game. The industrial might of the US didn't make Europe poorer. In fact a rich US and a rich Europe provide trade opportunities that enrich both.
Right now a poor China is stealing shit from the US. But if a rich China can innovate like the US, it won't need to steal. It will trade with the US and the world will be better for it.
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Right now a poor China is stealing shit from the US.
Really? I don't see a lot of theft by Chinese over here. I do see them making unauthorized copies of stuff we're paying them to make anyway, though.
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Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically, Chinese gov. is trying to sink the west economically, and they are winning because of idiots that keep saying that this is China just building themselves up.
The last time the US had a
positive balance of trade [wikipedia.org] was in 1975, when Mao was still alive and ruling China as a totally isolated Communist economy.
Basically, the US committed economic suicide in 1973, when OPEC first raised oil prices. Instead of raising prices an letting the economy adjust to the new reality, the US federal government imposed price controls and rationing [wikipedia.org]. The result is that the US never abandoned the pick-up truck as a personal transportation vehicle.
People in Europe drive subcompact cars with diesel engines that get 70 mpg, while in the US they drive to work in F-150s.
Blame not China if the US economy is fucked up.
Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Interesting)
Nope. American culture is like crack. Dipped in chocolate. Wrapped in bacon. With hookers.
Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Funny)
Mainly because america is the only culture that could come up with bacon wrapped chocolate dipped crack.
Go across the pond and they'd probably try making the crack into a white sauce, or bread it and soak it with balsamic vinegar.
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Mainly because america is the only culture that could come up with bacon wrapped chocolate dipped crack.
If I were an American I would be wiping away tears of pride right now...
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Or they're learning our weaknesses and how to exploit them - like Yamamoto.
Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Informative)
Although Yamamoto did spend some time at Harvard, he actually graduated from the Japanese naval academy. Ironically, having spent much time in the United States (he was later the Japanese naval attaché), he was firmly against attacking the US as he thought that Japan had no hope of winning a protracted war.
As to how the pearl harbor attack was so successful? Many attribute it be a copy of the battle of taranto (the first all-airplane attack launched from an air-craft carrier) where the UK destroyed some docked Italian battleships. My take is that Yamamoto copied the US war exercise where US Admiral Yarnell [wikipedia.org] performed pretty much the exact same attack on Hawaii with pretty much the same result...
He didn't learn our weakesses in school, but by studying history. Based on Yamamoto's prewar pro-US stance as a function of his time here, I'd say let more folks like him in.
Re:Econ 101 (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only that, many of them want to stay here. It's the Chinese brain drain.
Think again (Score:2)
Not only that, many of them want to stay here. It's the Chinese brain drain.
Think again
Many of the Chinese (and other foreign) students, stayed in America after they graduated, not because they love America
Because there are so many thing they can learn in America - so many new ideas, new concept, new way of thinking - that they can soak in
I am speaking from experience
After I graduated from college, I stayed in America for almost 3 decades
Did I like America? Well... yes and no
I like America, because there are so many good things in America that I learn
But I just can not substitute A
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30 years of someones working life is definitely something that a society wants, particularly if they are the type of person who is motivated enough to cross national boarders. I hear you on missing the home, that definitely applies to some people (not so much myself, but I can be emphatic here).
Think of the flip side. If there were Camp Cities in China what would it look like? In the 80s it would look like Tiananmen Square. Things have gone a long way in terms of quality of life in China, but I think there
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Are you kidding me? Foreign students are doing more than just getting an education here... they are learning the American way. They're being exposed to our values, life-style, religions, government institutions, free-market economy, etc, etc, etc.
You must be speaking abstractly, without any observational experience to back it up.
In graduate school, I noticed next-to-zero foreign students interacting with the american students. They did not socialize with us, or even speak our language. Having had an exercise to critique and evaluate a classmate's written paper, I was downright shocked at the complete lack of any kind of grasp of the English language: half of the paper was plagiarized straight from the textbook, and the other half was poorly constr
Oh, please !! (Score:2)
In graduate school, I noticed next-to-zero foreign students interacting with the american students.
They did not socialize with us, or even speak our language.
Having had an exercise to critique and evaluate a classmate's written paper, I was downright shocked at the complete lack of any kind of grasp of the English language: half of the paper was plagiarized straight from the textbook, and the other half was poorly constructed syntax intended to glue the pieces together than only a native English speaker would have any hope of discerning (even after a lot of effort).
Having read what you wrote, Sir, I can only conclude the following:
You are making this up
Speaking from my past experience as a foreign student studying in America - it's mostly the reverse
I tried to mix with the Americans -
- I mean, I was in AMERICA, and if I do not mix with Americans when I was in America, what the fuck I was doing in America in the first place? -
- but due to my lousy English -
- yes, my English was really really bad, what can I say but English was a FOREIGN LANGUAGE to me, at that time -
-
I was a foreign student, once (Score:2)
Yes, I am not from America, and Yes, I once studied in America
And Yes, I do not live in America
Why?
Because, although America is good in many ways, I do not feel that America is my home
Plus, not everything in America is hanky dory - there are things that I, no matter how much I tried, just can't accept - like gay marriage, like late-term (trimester) abortion, for instance
American value? Maybe ...
After staying in America for more than 2 decades, for better of worse, I do understand the worldview of many of my
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Gay marriage? You mean that gay marriage that's illegal in almost every state in the USA?
If extending more human rights to more people makes you uncomfortable, then I for one am happy that you fucked off and went home.
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If extending more human rights to more people makes you uncomfortable, then I for one am happy that you fucked off and went home.
If gay marriage is "extending more human rights to more people" I am very happy to tell you that I am not in a country where the term "human rights" has been abused to the point of no return
I was a foreign student, once (Score:2)
Yes, I am not from America, and Yes, I once studied in America
And Yes, I do not live in America
Why?
Because, although America is good in many ways, I do not feel that America is my home
Plus, not everything in America is hanky dory - there are things that I, no matter how much I tried, just can't accept - like gay marriage, like late-term (trimester) abortion, for instance
American value? Maybe ...
After staying in America for more than 2 decades, for better of worse, I do understand the worldview of many of my
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no they're not. they're making us learn their way. since we don't no longer have the testicular fortitude to stand up for our own culture out of some misguided attempt at 'multiculturalism,' we're setting the stage for a 'bloodless takeover.'
Instead of making english the official national language, we're teaching our kids spanish and mandarin in school. we're giving full blown scholarships to immigrants because of their immigrant status, while american citizens have to pay.
It is a fact of human nature that
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no they're not. they're making us learn their way. since we don't no longer have the testicular fortitude to stand up for our own culture out of some misguided attempt at 'multiculturalism,' we're setting the stage for a 'bloodless takeover.'
Instead of making english the official national language, we're teaching our kids spanish and mandarin in school. we're giving full blown scholarships to immigrants because of their immigrant status, while american citizens have to pay.
It is a fact of human nature that societies have to stand up for themselves and their identities, or else they ossify into someone else's.
Our country's downfall will be the great lengths we go through to avoid having to compete on merit. It is sestemic in our business culture, and in the general "entitled" attitudes in a large part of our workforce, as evidenced by your comment. We should be ENCOURAGING hard working and talented persons to immigrate to this country. If we do not, we will no longer be able to compete in a globalized economy.
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I agree we should compete on merit, but if we do this at the expense of our culture, less and less will differentiate us with the incoming cultures' values. it's a case of burning the village in order to save it. These incoming cultures don't care about our culture or our values.. they want the parts that'll benefit them and their homelands, not ours.
You speak of entitlement attitude, but that cuts both ways. There's just as much entitlement syndrome in today's corporations and governments who think linin
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I hate to say it, but this AC is right. The average immigrant AND the average american today, are NOT the kind of people who made this country what it once was.. We need to bring some of that culture back, or our 'culture of immigrants' that helped build this country in the last century will become a culture of thieves who come here on scholarships or H1Bs, and siphon wealth back to their home countries before leaving again. America is a country dying a death of millions of tiny paper cuts.
To be fair, it'
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You are supposing (wrongly) that there aren't enough seats for domestic students, and so a foreign student taking a seat is depriving a domestic one of a seat.
In that thinking you are completely wrong.
When I was an undergrad I had to take 1st year chem and biology. Both of which had well over 2000 students when the largest classroom was 400 at my school. By your logic this would mean 1600 people got screwed out of their degree. By university logic this meant running a total of 6 or 7 lecture sets for the
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Oftentimes, they care about maximizing endowment potential as much as they care about talent. And those new wealth Chinese families have cash to burn, and many of them enjoy seeing (and showing off) their name near the top of donor lists.
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True, but either way, if a chinese guy is richer/smarter than an american guy, and the criteria you are really evaluation on is rich/smart then there's nothing wrong with taking the whichever one best fits the metric you want.
As was said in another thread earlier this week too, education costs money, a lot of it. You can't fault schools for trying to make money because it doesn't do anyone any favours if they run out of money.
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They should raise tuition significantly- each seat filled by a foreign student is one less domestic student in that seat and robs the US of future domestic production, especially if that seat might have contributed positively to the domestic economy (ie: sciences/computer science/engineering)- I doubt these foreign students are here for liberal art degrees. Unless you actually build new facilities, enlarge existing lecture halls, and hire additional faculty, this is the simple math of the situation.
Don't worry, the graduates will just start building perfect copies of MIT and other top US universities when they return to China, just like they do with everything else. The problem you're talking about is only temporary.
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The highly qualified one usually goes to the top-ranked universities, while the trust-fund-kids goes to the no-name ones.