Behind the MOOC Harassment Charges That Stunned MIT 376
An anonymous reader writes: The complainant in a sexual harassment case has come forward and told her story about what happened when she was a student in a MOOC led by a rockstar professor. "It would take almost a year before Harbi, with the help of MIT’s investigators, said she came to understand that Lewin’s interest in her was not motivated by empathy, and that their first conversations included inappropriate language. Shortly after contacting her, Harbi said, Lewin quickly moved their friendship into uncomfortable territory, and she was pushed to participate in online sexual role-playing and send naked pictures and videos of herself."
Popcorn time! (Score:3, Funny)
Woo hoo!
Another ahrassment thread. I'm here with a big bag of popcorn and ready to post.
Wiggle out of this one, harassment denialists!
Re: Popcorn time! (Score:5, Funny)
You know it is the modern age when:
If a man talks dirty to a woman it is sexual harrasement
If a woman talks dirty to a man it is 4.99/minute
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/Oblg.
http://www.blippitt.com/wp-con... [blippitt.com]
http://i244.photobucket.com/al... [photobucket.com]
--
First Contact is coming 2022 - 2024; are you ready for a larger perspective?
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Violent Purtians vs insensitive clods - loads of fun, but best watched from a considerable distance.
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody's ever said harassment didn't exist. It does, as does rape, murder, fraud, and pickpocketing. Usually perpetrated by psychos and disturbed individuals.
Psychos and seriously disturbed people also exist, of course - unfortunately some of them seem to think that there's an enormous epidemic of rape and harassment.
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I've heard claims that one in four women will be raped at some point in their lives, and have yet to hear any sort of data-based rebuttal. Now certainly when you consider the millions of men your average woman encounters over the 20-30 thousand days of her life that doesn't constitute anything most reasonable people would consider an epidemic - most people will get chicken pox at some point in their life, but nobody talks about there being a chicken pox epidemic - you need a much higher event density for t
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:5, Informative)
I've heard claims that one in four women will be raped at some point in their lives, and have yet to hear any sort of data-based rebuttal.
Look at the actual crime reporting figures, locally rape convictions stand at around 8 per 100,000. Now let's get crazy and say only one in twenty rapes and or sexual assault charges result in a conviction. Let's get even crazier and say one in twenty people who are raped even report the matter. That leaves us with 3200 per 100,000, or about one in thirty. Still almost an order of magnitude smaller than feminist figures and almost certainly still a gigantic exaggeration.
So where do they come up with these moral panic inducing mountains of statistical tripe?
To understand this we have to look at the methods they use to take these surveys. Look at the technical reports. You'll find lots of stuff like:
Drafting the questionnaire, it was important to avoid terms such as ‘rape’, ‘violence’ or ‘stalking’, because different women might have different preconceived ideas on the types of violence usually associated with these terms, and the types of perpetrators involved.
Terms such as rape are left out of questionnaires and it's left to the researchers (all of whom happen to be feminist trained) to decide whether or not rape took place. So if someone answered that they were verbally abused using a sexual slur or had sex while drunk, it's the researcher who decides if the women was sexually attacked.
And take a look at California's shiny new feminist inspired affirmative consent laws if you want to know whether having sex after a drink is rape or not.
This gets further distorted by the public mouthpieces, who translate these numbers into 25% of all women were raped. No, they weren't. That one in four women in modern western democracies, one in forty was raped is not a prospect that the rational mind can entertain.
This is a technique that was pioneered by Mary Koss, a feminist researcher who decided that the official unbiased government reports weren't giving her the answers she wanted, so she set up her own surveys in order to amend the statistics accordingly.
Post survey examination of the outcomes however revealed that around three quarters of the women she identified as having been raped did not consider themselves victims of rape, and almost half of them had sex with their supposed attackers after the event identified as a rape had occurred, and continued dating them.
So, having internalised that, now you'll have to start asking questions like "how did these flim flam artists manage to pull the wool over everyone's eyes for 40 years" and "why are people in power listening to them" and so on. These are good questions to ponder. While you're pondering them some light reading for you:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/... [unh.edu]
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Look at the actual crime reporting figures, locally rape convictions stand at around 8 per 100,000. Now let's get crazy and say only one in twenty rapes and or sexual assault charges result in a conviction. Let's get even crazier and say one in twenty people who are raped even report the matter. That leaves us with 3200 per 100,000, or about one in thirty. Still almost an order of magnitude smaller than feminist figures and almost certainly still a gigantic exaggeration.
You're missing the dimension of time which crime statistics do include (you didn't include a link, btw). If your hypothesized/extrapolated numbers for rape is multiplied for the same population over a period of, say, 10 years and presuming each year produces new victims, that would mean than a relatively stable population base of 100,000 would yield 32,000 rapes.
It's not like rape (or any crime) only happens in a given population for only one year. People have lifespans and the number of victims accumulate
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Woo hoo!
Another ahrassment thread. I'm here with a big bag of popcorn and ready to post.
Wiggle out of this one, harassment denialists!
Mr Rockstar Lewin shows himself to be seriously creepy. I suspect that this is not the first time he has been involved in sexual harassment.
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It's just words.
Oh good. I was worried for a minute there. It's a good job words have no power and are harmless.
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do you need his physical address? Do you want to step up and do more then mere words?
If you want to show how words hurt you can do that right here, in this thread.
So that maybe he can send some threatening or harassing words to the AC's home address, where his family will also see it.
See, the problem isn't that "he sent her some words." People do that all the time online, I close stupid spam IMs every week. What differentiates just regular words from situations like this is when one person does hold some power over another that makes it difficult for the harassee to avoid the harasser. Say, if your boss starts sexually harassing you, and you can't risk jeopardizing your job. Or your teacher starts to harass you, and you can't afford to fail the class. Sexual harassment isn't something you should have to suffer with, as the fault is always with the harasser, and our various harassment laws handle the cases of workplace harassment.
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:5, Interesting)
So you see nothing wrong with a professor using his status to obtain sexual favors?
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if they are offered?
I've a friend who spent some time as a college level instructor and on quite a few occasions would have rather attractive co-ed here or there who would put on the water works or even make veiled sexual offers if he to try to get him to bump their grade or allow late work to be turned in for full credit.
My friend was at least smart and professional enough to refuse all such advances, not all are so.
I'm not excusing anything, I've just heard plenty from the other side.
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Even if they are offered?
I have two friends, one of whom is a professor and the other is the student that he married 45 years ago (which was before I knew them). Sometimes it works.
That was a bit before the present-day restrictions on "harassment," though.
It's a tricky question. I would say that the dividing line is coercion-- is the professor using some form of threat, or promising good grades?
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a tricky question. I would say that the dividing line is coercion-- is the professor using some form of threat, or promising good grades?
I think that's where you have to draw the line. I mean a college-aged girl has to get over the fact that older men will be attracted to her, and make advances. Just because she's creeped-out by it, doesn't necessarily mean it's inappropriate. Ultimately gender equality means others have the right to hit on her, and she has the right to tell them to fuck-off. That's what you do as an adult.
And it's not as if women don't use their sex-appeal when it suits them.
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a tricky question. I would say that the dividing line is coercion-- is the professor using some form of threat, or promising good grades?
I think that's where you have to draw the line. I mean a college-aged girl has to get over the fact that older men will be attracted to her, and make advances. Just because she's creeped-out by it, doesn't necessarily mean it's inappropriate.
I guess you didn't read the story. Let's ay you were married to one of those hot college aged girls, and one of her professors keeps asking her ot send nude photos and videos of herself. Now you might find that hot as hell yourself, most of us would be a little annoyed. I'd certainy expect my wife ot be annoyed.
Ultimately gender equality means others have the right to hit on her, and she has the right to tell them to fuck-off.
And if he or she doesn't stop? This really isn't about getting the nerve up to ask for a date. This is an almost classic example of a person in a position of power finding a mark to go after. This woman had a few problems of her own - she takes anti-anxiety and anti-depressants. Which some folks do find easy to manipulate. But taking medications is neither a crime, nor an excuse to take advantage of.
And apparently she documented this also after some time when it had progressed too far. This is creepy to most people not just her.
And it's not as if women don't use their sex-appeal when it suits them.
Well sure. But now you're using the "she asked to be raped" stupidity. There is a difference between dressing nicely, flirting, and being your mythical "harassment bait". I enjoy looking at pretty women. I don't ask them to send me naked videos of themselves on the internet.
Not a college kid (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that's where you have to draw the line. I mean a college-aged girl has to get over the fact that older men will be attracted to her, and make advances. Just because she's creeped-out by it, doesn't necessarily mean it's inappropriate.
Just a quick note-- she wasn't a "college-aged girl"-- she was 32.
Ultimately gender equality means others have the right to hit on her, and she has the right to tell them to fuck-off.
And if he or she doesn't stop? This really isn't about getting the nerve up to ask for a date. This is an almost classic example of a person in a position of power finding a mark to go after.
But, uh, he wasn't in a position with any power over her. She was a student in a not for credit, no grade course that he taught. He had no power whatsoever.
And it's not as if women don't use their sex-appeal when it suits them.
Well sure. But now you're using the "she asked to be raped" stupidity.
Warning! Warning! Strawman argument! Warning!
She wasn't raped. She was not raped . She--voluntarily-- send him nude pictures.
Re:Not a college kid (Score:4, Interesting)
And if he or she doesn't stop? This really isn't about getting the nerve up to ask for a date. This is an almost classic example of a person in a position of power finding a mark to go after.
But, uh, he wasn't in a position with any power over her. She was a student in a not for credit, no grade course that he taught. He had no power whatsoever.
You don't understand how these things get started. If I might take na example from a recent pedophile scandal.
Jerry Sandusky was a well known and loved football coach who ran a foundation and housing for "at risk" children.
In his foundation, where he was around a lot of young boys, he could find ones who were vulnerable in one way or another. Long and short of it is that through coercing them over a period of time, he eventually molested them.
He knew how to hunt. Most kids would give him a kick in the nuts or just avoid him, but those with the specific vulnerability ended up molested.
These people know how to find people they can manipulate. Whether she was flattered at first, or a little insecure - I don't know. But a lot of people are, and that doesn't excuse him in the least.
Eventually she found it way beyond the pale, and decided enough was enough. And if you RTFA she is not the only one. He's definitely sleazy. There are places that people can go if they want that sort of thing, either on the internet or in person. Then both parties are willing participants.
Warning! Warning! Strawman argument! Warning!
She wasn't raped.
God, on slashdot any disagreement is called a "straw man" I know straw men,, and that was no straw man
I suspect a degree of obtuseness here. So lets do the long form.
No one deserves getting hauled into a sexual situation against their will. In my response to
And it's not as if women don't use their sex-appeal when it suits them. I was saying, in a time honored fashion, but one that apparently needs dumbed down for you:
Because a woman looks nice, or dresses nicely, or smiles at you, or even gives you a peck on the cheek, it in no way gives you the right to expect sexual favors from her, because her appearance does not give you the right for sexual favors, her clothing does not give you the right to expect sexual favors, and her basic sexuality , get ready for it......here it comes...... does not give you the right to expect sexual favors from her. Just sayin'.
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Sounds plausible to me. And personally I don't think we need to eliminate sex from human interactions, we just need to figure out how to handle it gracefully. The sexual revolution fundamentally changed the rules of the game, and we still haven't really figured out a new social etiquette to handle it. I give it a few more generations, at least, before we find a new comfort zone. We are after all talking about arguably the largest social shift since the rise of patriarchy many thousands of years ago.
Howe
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No, I don't think someone should "just get over the fact that...". Don't excuse your fellow troglogdytes, hold them to account.
In many cases things cross the line from being creeped out and into very clearly illegal territory, and this case sounds like one.
This is not about some construction workers whistling at someone walking by, this is about one's own professor coercing a student.
In real life you can't say "fuckoff" because the response may be "you're fired" or "I thought you wanted to get that A" or o
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My friend was at least smart and professional enough to refuse all such advances, not all are so.
Your own answer makes clear what anyone who isn't a sociopath knows: people in positions of power and respect--which includes professors and college instructors--have a professional obligation to refuse all such advances.
There are a whole bunch of reasons for this, but a big one is that even if you can't imagine it[*] people in such positions have a ridiculous amount of influence over some individuals, a degree that amounts to coercion.
[*] though why anyone would think what they can or cannot imagine is int
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So you see nothing wrong with a professor using his status to obtain sexual favors?
Even if they are offered?
Taking advantage of someone is bad even if they act like they like it.
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But it is still wrong.
Re:Popcorn time! (Score:4, Informative)
Oh get over it. It's just words.
No, it is words from a person in authority whose job it was to help her, not take advantage of her.
It isn't criminal, hence the reason the guy is not in jail. But it is not acceptable behavior from someone representing the school and if the school knew about it, then they've abused the trust of the community.
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All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can h
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He must be paraphrasing Thomas Hobbes.
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How about if you must take those classes to graduate and so must have contact with the instructor and deal with unwanted advances? Any instructor that does that is wrong.
Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:3, Interesting)
But how exactly did he force them to do what they did *Over the internet*
Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:3, Insightful)
She thought she was sending naked pictures and could maybe win some extra points when grade time came around but it turned out she was just sending naked pictures with no long game payout and that's harassment.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:5, Funny)
that's harassment.
... and it took her a year to realize that it was harassment. But once she finally figured out what happened, MIT was stunned!
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Or it took a year to realize that she might either be able to actually do something about it that wouldn't harm her worse or to decide that the harm it would do her was better than the harassment.
Do You Even Literate, Bro?! (Score:5, Insightful)
She thought she was sending naked pictures and could maybe win some extra points when grade time came around but it turned out she was just sending naked pictures with no long game payout and that's harassment.
No, wrong wrong wrong wrong. Goddamnit how many illiterate people manage to get this far on Slashdot?! From THE FUCKING ARTICLE:
What may be most difficult to understand, Harbi said, is why anyone would respond to Lewin’s requests. Harbi, who is originally from Algiers, Algeria, is open about having been sexually assaulted in the past, and said she struggles with abandonment issues. The more she tried to distance herself from Lewin, she said, the more he attempted to contact her through email and social media. Ultimately, Harbi said, she felt forced to “obey.”
“We all felt trapped,” Harbi said.
Dziech said Harbi’s history as a victim of sexual assault was relevant.
“That stays with you all of your life,” Dziech, who this quarter teaches a seminar on child and adolescent abuse, said. “You never get beyond it no matter how much therapy. It’s terrifying, and it raises another problem for all institutions: They can never know the background of the student -- in what way the student is vulnerable.”
Slashdot: The place where the most "interesting" and "insightful" comments are completely made up fantasies about what actually happened.
Re:Do You Even Literate, Bro?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I've hit the point where "actual evidence is required" after UAV and Dalhousie(both being the most recent). Fuck this noise. Seriously, fuck it right in the neck. I don't "trust the articles" I don't "trust the admins" I expect actual evidence.
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No. So far, we have only heard one side of the story & both sides need to be heard & in front of an impartial judge.
80 years ago when they were stringing up black men in the south, they often had "proof" of their guilt and acted on it. Stop acting like a mob.
Re:Do You Even Literate, Bro?! (Score:5, Insightful)
So you think accusing somebody automatically makes that person guilty? Like the witch hunts, or the communist hunts?
If I accused you of being a child molester, would that automatically make you guilty?
I think there is may something that can be said for an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
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So then, you don't trust the professor saying he didn't do it either, right?
Why do you automatically give credibility to the person in authority?
He's not. He's adhering to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" that our justice system is built upon.
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Slashdot: The place where the most "interesting" and "insightful" comments are completely made up fantasies about what actually happened.
No, this is really Slashdot, so we need to figure out how to blame the victim. Then we'll be good. Bonus points if you can spin it to appear plausible that it was her fault (which it wasn't, of course.)
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No, wrong wrong wrong wrong. Goddamnit how many illiterate people manage to get this far on Slashdot?! From THE FUCKING ARTICLE:
Well basically there's some people on here who seem beyond desperate to believe that men never do bad things. I can only speculate as to why, but I suspect that it has something to do with if men cannot do bad things then they as men must be innocent of the bad things they have done.
It's a very odd attitide and hard to explain.
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So she has a history of sexual assault, yet her reaction to a pervy prof asking for nude photos was to send the photos rather than saying to herself "learning some physics is not worth this crap" and blocking him on facebook/email/whatever and sending the logs/etc to the university.
Yes he is the one abusing his position of authority. he is the one at fault (taking MIT's investigation of the matter at face value - I don't have the details they have after all). That doesn't mean she can't make some better dec
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:5, Informative)
She thought she was sending naked pictures and could maybe win some extra points when grade time came around but it turned out she was just sending naked pictures with no long game payout and that's harassment.
More like she was told she would not get good grades if she didn't and she really needed this. Fear can do weird things to people.
From the article, it was apparently an open course online, with no grades and no credit. (And she was in another country, so there was no personal contact, either.)
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:5, Informative)
But how exactly did he force them to do what they did *Over the internet*
If you read the full article, towards the end it talks about this particular woman having various emotion issues including abandonment. It would seem that the prof in question exploited theses weaknesses in order to groom the woman into sending the naked pics etc.
In addition the article talks about various victims being from cultures where speaking out is not the done thing.
So while no-one was physically compelled to send anything, it sure sounds as if they were psychologically compelled.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:4, Interesting)
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Or do you have to asssume each time you engage a conversation with someone he/she is not responsible for what he/she says?
There is a big difference between having a conversation with someone that touches on things vs actively seeking out and exploiting those things.
Lewin was an idiot and was framed.
Lewin was an idiot, but if he actively groomed these victims, then he was not framed.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:4, Insightful)
I actively groomed my wife to marry me through Charm and Seduction. If we had not married would it then be harassment a year later if she had decided she didn't like me for whatever reason?
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:4, Interesting)
I actively groomed my wife to marry me through Charm and Seduction. If we had not married would it then be harassment a year later if she had decided she didn't like me for whatever reason?
Sadly, after the point in time a woman decides she doesn't like you, a single flirt could cause all previous grooming to be used against you as evidence of a history of harassment. Happened to a person I know. Sad, but true.
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Oh man... This whole "They where manipulated into doing this by some guy" is just plain SAD. I have no doubt this guy did some pretty despicable things and violated the rules he agreed too. I also have no doubt that these women where at least partially responsible for what happened because they didn't say "NO!" to the guy in authority for what ever reason.
Clearly Lewin gets punished for violating the code of conduct, but it's just as clear that he was taking advantage of a set of women who where ill prep
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It's easy to say that as a westerner with no serious psychological issues. Not all cultures and people are like that.
Besides, where do you draw the line? Are people who get mugged and beaten up partially responsible for not learning some martial arts skills to defend themselves? What if they have health problems that make fighting back difficult or impossible? Just because one is a physical limitation and the other is a psychological one doesn't make them different - mental illness and limitations are just
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Does not apply here: The course in question does not award grades, costs nothing and is exceptionally easy to walk away from. The only thing you lose is the course itself.
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>groomed
stop using terms you don't understand. If you do understand it, stop using it where it is not applicable.
Please explain why you think I am wrong.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:5, Interesting)
So while no-one was physically compelled to send anything, it sure sounds as if they were psychologically compelled.
Well, it does sound like he lied to them (about exclusivity).
Lewin confessed his love for several of them, chat logs show, but often denied those feelings to women who asked about the others.
It's probably just me being cynical, but had the first degree women friends of the Professor on Facebook not replied to that first woman saying that they were also in an online sexual relationship with the Professor, then the first woman wouldn't have considered his behavior sexual harassment, and she would have never retroactively taken back her consent to the online relationship.
She also said she felt trap near the end, but really how trapped could she have been? She started all of this more than a year after the fact. Wasn't she finished with the course by that time? Shouldn't the power relationship be nullified once all the grades are in and the course finished? Also the Professor was already pushing 80 years old and had already retired? How much power did have from across the ocean as an 80 year old?
Did he try to blackmail her with the pictures he already had? From the detailed article, that doesn't seem to be the case. If the detail of him lying about other women is any indication, that seems to be the most relevant part of her grievance, and that's how he "psychologically compelled" her -- by lying to her. And by the time she found out about the online infidelity, she was already emotionally attached to him, that's why she felt trapped (at least, that would be my cynical interpretation of her statements, because I just don't buy the I-felt trapped-because-he-kept-on-contacted-me reason.).
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Unless we're talking about a minor, that isn't forcing someone.
It's abusive, for sure, but this is not the same as the people are the actual victims of physical or other coercion.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:5, Insightful)
And they could have stopped it immediately by blocking him on FB and/or just stopped the course they paid a whole $0 for.
In the whole history of people being psychologically manipulated and abused, they *all* could have stopped it simply by saying no, and walking away. Yet they don't. Kinda suggests that doing so is very difficult to do, and that there are things in play that you are not crediting.
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> In the whole history of people being psychologically manipulated and abused, they *all* could have stopped it simply by saying no, and walking away.
Yes, maybe in the real world, face to face interaction where you can't click block and they're gone.
Re:Not trying to excuse what he did (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, maybe in the real world, face to face interaction where you can't click block and they're gone.
And that comes across as a "True Scotsman" logical fallacy, by suggesting that psychological manipulation is erased by distance.
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But it's not all or nothing. What he did may be very wrong, but it's not in the same category as actual harassment.
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I read the article. I'm just claiming bullshit on the argument that somehow this physics professor is such a master psychological manipulator that he coerced dozens of women halfway across the world to send him nudes over the internet for no good reason.
If you're *that* emotionally troubled with abandonment issues that you're sending a guy over the internet that has no leverage over you nudes, I dont see how you can deal with offline interactions period.
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If you're *that* emotionally troubled with abandonment issues that you're sending a guy over the internet that has no leverage over you nudes, I dont see how you can deal with offline interactions period.
Yes, it's sad how some people can't deal with life. In this case, probably due at least in part due to prior instances of abuse. But you know what's even more sad than that? That some people take advantage of them because of how sad their lives are. You know what's almost as sad as that? The people whose lives are so empty and self-esteem so low that they have to talk shit about people who have been taken advantage of repeatedly.
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If you're *that* emotionally troubled with abandonment issues that you're sending a guy over the internet that has no leverage over you nudes, I dont see how you can deal with offline interactions period.
You clearly have no idea how the psychology of abuse works then. Most people think of their bodies and belonging to them and as being something they need to protect by not allowing others access. Abuse victims have had those ideas shattered, and even if consciously they understand them at a subconscious level it's all screwed up. No amount of therapy can completely fix it.
Mental illness is often like that. People with depression can interact pretty much normally most of the time, but it doesn't mean they ar
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So what you're saying is women are weaker and more manipulable than men?
What he is saying is that people with psychological issues are more vulnerable to manipulation that those without them.
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Then he should have left the "women" part out of it.
Given that the case in question revolves around a guy supposedly manipulating women, I don't think it's unreasonable for the OP to frame the statement in terms of female victims. But I agree that abuse in general needs to be prevented.
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So what you're saying is women are weaker and more manipulable than men?
I think what he was saying is that people who have been abused in the past are more likely to permit abuse again.
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True, though I don't see many people wearing "I was abused in the past" signs around their necks... maybe I'm just not as good at reading people as others are.
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So you didn't watch how the bullies worked all this out on the playground as a kid? Or better yet, when you where an adult, watch your kids playing with a group of kids?
Seemed pretty straight forward to me how the abusers identify likely targets and how the suitable targets would react to situations. Even as adults, the behaviors are similar, even if the fine details of how it's done are a bit more nuanced.
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I fucked up and actually read the article. They'll probably take my /. posting privileges away, I know. Anyway, apparently as soon as she started the FB group for the course Lewin contacted her to chat. She was excited about the attentiveness of the professor, and opened up that she had anxiety issues (was on medication) and he said through the course he would help her get her self-confidence back.
So basically yeah, she opened up about her psychological problems, and he saw a victim he could manipulate, and
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So what you're saying is women are weaker and more manipulable than men?
No, only that THESE women where without the necessary self respect to RESIST this dirt bag and tell him to get lost. This lack of self respect is not related to gender, even though their gender was apparently part of the reason they where targets.
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So what you're saying is women are weaker and more manipulable than men?
Nope. You need to learn to read and reason logically. He said no such thing at all. This is simply you layering whatever the hell is swimming round inside your own head on top.
Blah blah blah (Score:3, Insightful)
Tell me more about how women are being oppressed by men and how I, as a man, should be ashamed of myself.
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Saying all men are responsible for all sexual harassment is like saying all Muslims are responsible for all Islamic terrorism.
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That's a crap analogy.
The *silent majority* ARE part of the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Not that I disagree with what you are trying to say, I would like to point something out to you about your comment:
No one's talling[SIC] you [SIC]should be ashamed of yourself for harassing women.
I think anyone who harasses people should be ashamed of themselves. What you maybe meant to type would be more like: "No one is telling you that you should be ashamed for being male because some males harass women", which is a bit different from what you did type.
Now, my question is, why do we get inundated with stories about women being harassed by men, but never stories about the many men wh
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No one's talling[SIC] you [SIC]should be ashamed of yourself for harassing women.
Now, my question is, why do we get inundated with stories about women being harassed by men, but never stories about the many men who are harassed by women?
Why do you think? It's the same reason we hear about a white cop shooting a black kid but never about a black cop shooting a white one. What fits the PC narrative?
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Why do you think? It's the same reason we hear about a white cop shooting a black kid but never about a black cop shooting a white one. What fits the PC narrative?
Yep. All to do with the PC gestapo. Nothing to do with the police actually shooting far more black kids than white ones. We couldn't have that because it woudl contradict the internet whiner narrative.
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The grammer nazi's approve of you're corrections irregardless of weather spelling is grammer.
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The [SIC] is the accepted way of saying that the mistake is in the original, not the copy. As for the language, your statement did not say what you meant it to say, you said that the predator should feel no remorse, not that people who don't do it should feel no remorse. There is a significant difference in the two.
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As for the language, your statement did not say what you meant it to say, you said that the predator should feel no remorse, not that people who don't do it should feel no remorse. There is a significant difference in the two.
oh bollocks, it looks like I did too. :(
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And this is why we still have problems because whiners take everything personally.
In this case, no one was saying that he should be ashamed of himself for harassing women. But to be fair, many of the stories posted here start from that assumption (IE, gamers have sexual harassment problems, gamers sexually harass women, gamers are fine with sexual harassment, etcetc) and only afterwards narrow the scope to the people actually involved. So a number of people are a bit touchy.
Unfortunately, their objections to those despicable tactics have gone too far as well, leading to, well, an overuse
WTF! She was 32 years old (Score:5, Insightful)
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I would consider this as consent, dot period.
i think the argument is that she couldn't refuse since the professor was in a position of power.
What power? (Score:2)
i think the argument is that she couldn't refuse since the professor was in a position of power.
I didn't think the grades from these courses counted for anything (if they even were grades) so where exactly did the power come from? She was under no obligation to keep up with the course and if someone started asking me fore nudes I'd just learn physics some other way.
Re:WTF! She was 32 years old (Score:5, Insightful)
She made the mistake of opening up to Lewin about her psychological problems (anxiety, abandonment) and he manipulated her (sweet lies about helping her get her self-esteem back) so she'd cough up the nudes.
Shockingly, despite age, people with psychological problems can be manipulated into doing things contrary to their best interests by sociopaths.
Respect yourself (Score:2, Insightful)
Look ladies, yea I'm a middle aged white male, but why do some of you let these things happen to you?
Now I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve to be castigated for demeaning women, but shesh ladies, you need to have some self respect. I'm not saying this wasn't harassment, but don't let some scumbag do this kind of thing to you. Where is the outcry for the way this woman was raised? Where is the outcry for the mentalities that lead to a woman who cannot or will not stand up for herself? Who thinks that
Re:Respect yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
why are you post this question on slashdot? Do you assume women come here to get some sort of advice?
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I'm glad you live in a world without fear where all people can stand up and make a stand for what's right and doing so makes all the evil that humans do go away. I do not live in that world. I live in the real world.
In the real world, if you make a stand, you better be ready to get knocked on your ass. Not everyone wants that. In fact, some people have learned not to stand up, because every time they did, they got knocked on their ass. We call these people victims of abuse.
So, we all came together and said
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Look ladies, yea I'm a middle aged white male, but why do some of you let these things happen to you? [...] I raised my daughter to not be afraid to say no and mean it.
With an attitude like that, it's clear that if your daughter does have something like this (or worse) happen to her, she's not going to tell you. But I guess ignorance is bliss, huh?
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What gets me, after reading the article is how the professor expected this not to come back and destroy what career he had left, He is or was rather, a respected MIT professor. Was it ego of the narcissistic abuser's mind compounded by the fact that if this had been a pattern with him throughout his career he had never been called on it or is this particular professor on the long slow slide into senility and dementia?
I am forced to wonder.
I think some people just can't handle the transition from physical to virtual space without maintaining the same level of civility and decency. Many a person who could be polite and respectable when you talk to them face to face become dickbags when they're talking online to people hundreds or thousands of miles away.
Unprofessional (Score:2)
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One random guy being sent photos does not a gender issue make. If you want to talk about gender issues maybe we can talk about the actual epidemic of female teachers raping male and female students in high schools, how about that for a conversation we need to have. Because that's what happens when you create a narrative that puts people into jobs based on their genitalia instead of their merit. You sanctimonious little pricks speak only, and I do mean only, for your revolting little cult.
huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
A 32 year old woman took a year to recognize that the harassment "started day one", and when she was "pushed" by her PHYSICS professor to participate in online sexual roleplay and send naked pictures (which she did?) she didn't comprehend that his interest in her might be more than academic?
At what age is someone expected to be able to deploy the word "no" on their own behalf?
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But it happened on the Internet!
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I appreciate this update to the previous story about his removal, the lack of any sort
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Select text, right click, select "Search DuckDuckGo for $Text".
Enter.
You're welcome.
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Yeah, and don't tell me you're using an Apple one-button mouse and that I'm an insensitive clod.