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United States Education The Almighty Buck Science

Obama To Announce $240M In New Pledges For STEM Education 149

An anonymous reader sends word that President Obama is expected to announce more that $240 million in pledges to boost STEM educations at the White House Science Fair today. "President Barack Obama is highlighting private-sector efforts to encourage more students from underrepresented groups to pursue education in science, technology, engineering and math. At the White House Science Fair on Monday, Obama will announce more than $240 million in pledges to boost the study of those fields, known as STEM. This year's fair is focused on diversity. Obama will say the new commitments have brought total financial and material support for these programs to $1 billion. The pledges the president is announcing include a $150 million philanthropic effort to encourage promising early-career scientists to stay on track and a $90 million campaign to expand STEM opportunities to underrepresented youth, such as minorities and girls."
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Obama To Announce $240M In New Pledges For STEM Education

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  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:10AM (#49320487)

    I am all for greater education in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math. However when they put it in a group called STEM, that makes me nervous.
    Just like in the 1990's when they decided to teach kids how to use computers. They had a watered down process. In the 1980s while I was in elementary school, when they taught how to use computer they showed the class how to program, in the 1990's when they really pushed computer education, the focus was on how to use Windows, Word, and Excel. When you make it a requirement, it means the class needs to be watered down, so the average student can get an A+ in the class, otherwise, they would be making a class that could hurt their GPA. Where before, it was an elective class, where the student can take the class if they knew they could do in it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:24AM (#49320613) Homepage Journal

        Endless educational financing is already available.

        In what universe would that be?

        • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @11:35AM (#49321267)

          Endless educational financing is already available.

          In what universe would that be?

          This one. The U.S. [reason.com] tops the world [wordpress.com] in education spending per student [oecd.org] (p. 4, chart B1.1).

          The idea that we're not spending enough on education is a myth, manufactured by those who are sucking up the largest chunk of education dollars. If you ever take the time to dig through a school district's budget, you'll find that the biggest single item is administrative overhead. Basically school payroll is top-heavy with too many administrators and managers.

          Every time a budget cut is threatened, they make sure the cuts land squarely on classrooms and teachers, creating an artificial financial crisis. That riles up the teachers' unions and PTAs who broadcast the message that we're not spending enough on education. We really are spending more than enough, but from their perspective we aren't because the administrators aren't passing the money through to them. When the tactic works and public pressure forces legislators to increase school budgets, the administrators divert the bulk of it to fattening up their pay (or hiring more administrators), throwing a few token bones to teachers and classrooms (e.g. an iPad for every child in Los Angeles, which was probably a kickback scheme for the administrators who selected which companies got the contract).

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Endless educational financing is already available.

            In what universe would that be?

            This one. The U.S. [reason.com] tops the world [wordpress.com] in education spending per student [oecd.org] (p. 4, chart B1.1).

            The idea that we're not spending enough on education is a myth, manufactured by those who are sucking up the largest chunk of education dollars. If you ever take the time to dig through a school district's budget, you'll find that the biggest single item is administrative overhead. Basically school payroll is top-heavy with too many administrators and managers.

            Every time a budget cut is threatened, they make sure the cuts land squarely on classrooms and teachers, creating an artificial financial crisis. That riles up the teachers' unions and PTAs who broadcast the message that we're not spending enough on education. We really are spending more than enough, but from their perspective we aren't because the administrators aren't passing the money through to them. When the tactic works and public pressure forces legislators to increase school budgets, the administrators divert the bulk of it to fattening up their pay (or hiring more administrators), throwing a few token bones to teachers and classrooms (e.g. an iPad for every child in Los Angeles, which was probably a kickback scheme for the administrators who selected which companies got the contract).

            And that very graph you cite is for primary through tertiary [higher] education, not primary through secondary.
            To quote from the paper "On average, OECD countries spend nearly twice as much per student at the tertiary level as
            at the primary level."

            You can't talk about the figures from that paper and talk about school districts in the next paragraph.

            I looked up Texas spending per student for public education (primary and secondary) and it was $6000 per student last year, on the level of Czech Republic (for p

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          Endless educational financing is already available.

          In what universe would that be?

          America spends more per student than any other country in the world, except Norway. Beyond a minimal level, higher spending on education does not deliver better results. Pedagogy (teaching methods) also make little difference. By far the most significant factors are cultural. Regions that do well in educating their children place a high value on education, and set high expectations.

          • The US might spend more on education per student than other nations. But how much of that per student spending is actually spent *on* students? And how much is going to pad administrators' salaries, benefits, and offices?

            • by hey! ( 33014 )

              The US might spend more on education per student than other nations. But how much of that per student spending is actually spent *on* students? And how much is going to pad administrators' salaries, benefits, and offices?

              That's easy to figure out. Pull the school system budgets for your town and read them. It's public record and it takes about twenty minutes to get a feel where the money is going. For example my town spends about $1.4 million in central administration salaries, including the IT department and curriculum support services. This is out of total system-wide salaries of $22.5 million. So about 6%. If you go by total expenses central administration takes up about 5.5% of the budget.

              Now here's an exercise th

            • which still goes back to "we dont need more spending, we need better spending"
          • Pedagogy (teaching methods) also make little difference. By far the most significant factors are cultural. Regions that do well in educating their children place a high value on education, and set high expectations.

            Give this article a read (re: teaching methods): http://www.theguardian.com/edu... [theguardian.com]

        • the can't be discharged in Bankruptcy student loans

        • It works out to $2424 per school, roughly [ed.gov]. Might add one faculty member per school system, at least for larger systems.

      • I am not talking about the money. But how such programs are implemented to get it.

      • This does very little to put us on a footing for a post-scarcity society. And we are assuredly on that path right now

        No we're not. We have to solve the energy crisis first. That requires a dyson sphere, which will provide 13,000 trillion times the energy we use today.

        Molybdenum and Cesium are so rare we make them using inefficient, energy-heavy nuclear fusion. We have the ability to literally turn lead into gold, or dog shit into gold, or gold into platinum, or piss into Strontium-90; it's really fucking expensive, more expensive than just mining a brick of gold, so we don't. It's expensive because of the massive a

        • This does very little to put us on a footing for a post-scarcity society. And we are assuredly on that path right now

          No we're not. We have to solve the energy crisis first. That requires a dyson sphere, which will provide 13,000 trillion times the energy we use today.

          That's a pretty bold claim for a vacuum cleaner.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      The vast majority of students will never need to know how to code. While I don't mind kids learning it I have a problem with kids being told they have to know some basic coding when they don't have the math skills to make something more of it than a glorified version of Hello World.

      I'd be much more satisfied with students graduating knowing how to write a formula in Excel with a bit more math behind it then a kid being able to tell me the a bit of syntax of some language that will never be used in t

      • The vast majority of students will never need to know how to analyse literature.
        The vast majority of students will never need to know about world history.
        The vast majority of students will never need to solve algebraic equations.

        Learning to code, isn't about knowing the silly commands, but training your mind into solving problems by breaking them down into elementary instructions. It helps you understand the world and trains your mind into different ways of thinking.

        • The vast majority of students will never need to know how to analyse literature.

          True, which is why we should remove that portion of the curriculum. They do need to know how to think critically about what they've read so as to be able to evaluate things like contracts or marketing materials though so there needs to be something as a replacement.

          The vast majority of students will never need to know about world history.

          As part of any decent civics program they need enough to knowledge of this subject to be able to vote intelligently. They may not need the intricate details of 12th century Romania, but at least an overview of some of the main civilizations tha

          • I think that we should make schools integrate subjects more. This would get rid of a lot of problems as to the reasons why we have courses like analyzing English literature. Reading and writing are very important, and so we require that students take English every year. By the time they get to highschool, the only thing left to teach is analyzing literature. Why not do away with English class after the students have gotten to the point that they can write a good paper and require that students write more
            • Why not do away with English class after the students have gotten to the point that they can write a good paper and require that students write more papers for other classes like science.

              The trouble is...in HS and below, we pretty much no longer fail or hold kids back if they don't learn their subjects. There is a reason so many colleges have so many remedial classes for incoming freshmen...English being one of them.

              The lack of skills of many incoming Freshmen is atrocious.

              • by RR ( 64484 )

                Why not do away with English class after the students have gotten to the point that they can write a good paper and require that students write more papers for other classes like science.

                The trouble is...in HS and below, we pretty much no longer fail or hold kids back if they don't learn their subjects. There is a reason so many colleges have so many remedial classes for incoming freshmen...English being one of them.

                The lack of skills of many incoming Freshmen is atrocious.

                A problem here is that the useless English Department administrators somehow managed to make 4 years of English a requirement for graduation. Doesn't matter if you already have skills in English; doesn't matter if you graduate without any skills. You're all getting stuck in the same class, which for lack of anything relevant to learn, ends up being a discussion about whatever fits the fancy of the teacher. Who majored in English for Teachers, so knows nothing useful.

                It also doesn't help that a lot of scienc

        • by Bengie ( 1121981 )

          Learning to code, isn't about knowing the silly commands, but training your mind into solving problems by breaking them down into elementary instructions.

          I've never met a person who learned to think this way, only people who have always thought this way.Most people will at most learn is the concept, but will rarely actually learn how to think that way. Like any artist, programmers see the world differently. Learning to imitate great painters doesn't make you an artist. A photocopier can do that.

          I'm not saying people can't learn to think this way, I'm saying that anyone can be an Olympian, but many do not have the determination that it takes. If you're born

      • by halivar ( 535827 )

        They don't NEED to learn how to code. But the exposure can be transformative. In 1985, my First Grade class was involved in an IBM pilot program where our learning was augmented with computers. I learned how to read from a self-paced reading program on an IBM PCjr. In the span of weeks, I went from "See spot run. Run spot, run." to a sixth grade reading level and YA fiction novels. A rep from the program came in for a special session where we learned how to get into BASIC and do some simple math programs on

    • As long as existing programs do not intentionally or through some structural issues, exclude groups, the government should stay the hell out.

      If this or that group is under represented in some discipline and the only reason is they choose not to attend, then there is no role for the Government to play.

      This applies to Steel Workers or STEM workers.

    • It's a hand-out to our slave masters.

      The push to educate everyone has come from the Government's great support arm. It uses taxpayer money or Federal guaranteed loans and cultural pressure, both decoupled from risk requirements that stop banks from handing out tons of free money, to get everyone to go to college and get a degree.

      This strategy churns out piles of cheap labor, freeing businesses from the social responsibility of building a workforce. Without these public efforts, most students wouldn't b

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I'm sure some will say that spending far less and opening the floodgates for more H-1Bs is cheaper than funding STEM education in the US.

      For anything STEM-related, anything is better than nothing. Right now, I know a few high school counselors telling their best and brightest AP students to eschew science/engineering, and go law or business, because "you can be easily replaced by a H-1B in STEM, and law can't be offshored", and "there is no such thing as an unemployed lawyer."

      If you walk into any higher ti

    • by umghhh ( 965931 )
      It is not watered down but adjusted to reality in which kids will grow into workers that need to have basic skills in operating a computer and nowadays some idea that there are issues with security esp. when you get a mail from a widowed old lady from Nigeria needing a means of investing millions in charity etc.
      This is not watered down stuff but basics on which if you want to you can build more. Assuming there are still cohding jobs in 20y from now there will be courses doing just that for a minority exac
    • It doesn't have to be that way. I'm from Ontario, and from the time kids start high school (grade 9), they get to pick university pass (Equivalent to US university or 3-4 year college with degree), college ( Equivalent to US 2-3 year community college or trade school), or just high school diploma. Based on the path they choose, they get vastly different level of courses starting in grade 9. When I was in school, university path included a whole extra year to get kids ready (they've since done away wi
    • in the 90s, i learned lego logo and microworlds in elementary school. basic programming. Course, that was only the smart kids class.
  • Here we go again (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Alopex ( 1973486 )

    With the equality of outcomes and not equality of opportunity

  • Mr. President,

    How do you take pledges and a philanthropic effort to the bank?
        How about taking three days of the money you reportedly send to the NSA (at the low estimate 10.8 billion) then you can actually make a claim of funding, instead blowing of smoke up our rectums.

    • The President doesn't control the NSA's budget or any other department. Congress does.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        The President doesn't have authority to write immigration laws either, but that hasn't stopped him.

  • by dciman ( 106457 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:37AM (#49320731) Journal

    What we really need is jobs for all of these new trains to fill once they graduate. Talk to any recent PhD in the biomedical sciences, engineering, etc, and ask them what they think of the push for greater STEM education efforts. They'll tell you it's basically BS. We can't place the number of graduates we currently have into even remotely well paying, long term, jobs.

    Now, we might need more STEM education and training for more technical, lower level, jobs. But of course that's never how these programs are billed. It's not as sexy of a sell to parents and students! Instead we push people to go to graduate school, get a MS or PhD. Then dump them into a market with slashed education funding, so there are few prospects in the university system. Combine that with a large number of foreign applicants for postdoc and technician positions that are willing to work for MUCH less in terms of wages and you've got a disaster. US citizens do have a slight advantage in that most of the NIH/NSF funded pre and postdoc training fellowships/grants are only open to citizens. But, those are so small in number and highly competitive that it doesn't have a large effect.

    We need to face the fact that we're really training WAY too many PhDs and even masters graduates in most of the STEM fields right now. It's a vicious cycle though. Profs want lots of PhD students because they are very inexpensive labor. Likewise with postdocs... for their training and amount of work they are expected to do... they are paid much less than minimum wage. Moreover, most profs will kick out postdocs after 2-3 years because of pay raises that some institutions mandate. It's just easier to dump the experienced person and higher in a new 1st year that gets paid 10k less, pump and dump... factory style.

    There have been a number of really excellent articles written about this problem over the last few years. Science and Nature have both dedicate page space to the topic. Some suggest forcing researchers funded by NIH/NSF monies to be required to higher long term technicians to their labs and reduce graduate student/postdoc usage. Such actions would start to limit new graduate number, while at the same time providing employment for scientists that aren't interested or can't get a faculty position in academia or don't want to work for industry. A lot of people also think it would help lab productivity, as you'd retain talent and skill sets that were honed over years of work.

    • I agree that if we want more people to train for STEM jobs, we need to focus on jobs in that sector not in education. We already have an education system qualified enough to produce STEM graduates. We just don't have enough quality jobs for those graduates, so many of our best and brightest go into law, medicine, finance, etc. instead of STEM fields.

      Take that $240 million, plus another $240 billion, and put it into research. Go to Mars, invent better batteries, create DNA specific medical treatments ... the

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      We can't place the number of graduates we currently have into even remotely well paying, long term, jobs.

      I believe the prez is making one or more of these mistakes:

      1. Mistaking spot shortages for general shortages.

      2. He's been bamboozled by visa & outsource lobbyists.

      3. He has to blame sluggish wages on something, and lack of STEM workers makes a good scapegoat excuse because it's complicated to verify and has lots of caveats, making plenty of political wiggle room if he needs to walk it back.

      I don't ha

    • by naris ( 830549 )
      Those new trainees should have no problems finding jobs, all they have to do is move to India or China. And if they become nationalized citizens there, they might even be able to come back as an H1B!
    • by ndykman ( 659315 )

      Yep. This is moot if spending on research isn't restored to pre-2000 levels and then increased from there. Add in reforms in the grant funding and renewal process, and then we can talk.

  • by NotDrWho ( 3543773 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:42AM (#49320781)

    Translation: Sorry poor white boy in Appalachia. Your scholarship is going to a rich girl in Grosse Pointe.

    • Translation: Trying to disguise the fact that the economy for most of us is imploding due to the social and environmental externalities that corporations are no longer willing to pay for in either taxes or employment opportunity is no longer working. As such, rather than give up our "Kapitalism über Alles" ideology, our only choice is to turn it into class/race warfare.

      I know there are a few more words there. Try to follow along.

      • You might have had a good point in there somewhere, but I had a hard time following along because of the snark and dangling modifiers.
  • by Goldsmith ( 561202 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:43AM (#49320785)

    There are billions poured into STEM, and encouraging early career scientists through programs at NSF, NIH, DARPA, etc. None of that is working (less than 50% of people trained in science stay in science). When I was still training students, the best of them generally ended up working in finance, not physics. An additional $250 million is not going to make a notable difference. We need a cultural and structural change in how we train and retain good scientists and engineers, not a meaningless bandaid.

  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @10:50AM (#49320857)

    A lot of people will see this as just a handout or lip service, but realistically, what else is there to do? Automation is going to destroy pretty much every service and office job slowly but surely over the next 40 or 50 years. People coming out of school have to do something. The "default choices" used to be that if you didn't go to college or failed at college, you got a trades or service job, and if you graduated, you got some random corporate job. These are the typical jobs we in IT see our customers doing -- some random reporting job or moving numbers around in Excel and emailing the results around, or middle management. Now, automation will be coming for the corporate jobs, and trades are becoming less and less desirable to work in due to low wages and limited to no union protection. So, what's left?

    I doubt everyone can be taught enough to be a good STEM worker, but maybe enough can to sustain the rest of the economy. Even having someone who understands enough logic to troubleshoot things pays off in other fields as well. If you focus on core stuff like that, rather than getting everyone to write "Hello, World!" in Python or Ruby, you may have something. Otherwise, I agree, it'll just be a box to check during your high school career and very few people will be interested in pursuing it further.

    • Mod parent up.
    • I think that this kind of stuff will take longer than most people think, simply because of the amount of push-back you get when even trying to streamline things a little bit. Nobody is interested in changing their process to make things more efficient because it means they might be out of a job in six months. Make things 20% computerized, and 1 in 5 employees will be out of a job. If you took the same people and guaranteed them that they would have a decent paycheck for life, and that they would only have
      • You speak as if people have much of a choice.

        Witness scott walker. All he talks about is destroying unions, and workers rights. I'm in Chicago (area) where we have a Democrat (a Democrat in theory) talking about destroying unions. Right to work laws, that in some cases are designed to pull money from unions - the unions can organize, but in effect are starved of funding until they die.

        We're working on eliminating near minimum wage jobs. A restaurant needs X waiters/waitstaff to wait on N tables. Lets g

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          There is a choice, but our so-called leaders stand in the way. They have forgotten that the economy exists to serve the people (all of them), not the other way around. They treat the economy as if it was some sort of god.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @11:05AM (#49320993)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by myid ( 3783581 )

      I'm concerned that the money will be spent in Silicon Valley, because that's where the jobs are. The problem is that a large proportion of the people living in Silicon Valley were not born in the US, and will live in the US only temporarily. If we concentrate the training there, then we'll be training a lot of students who will return to their home countries after a few years.

      I'd rather spend the money in areas, like Appalacia, in which a higher proportion of students are Americans.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    "expand it to minorities and girls"? Does this mean the program was previously available only to white boys before, or that they simply want to exclude white males now?

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Right now STEM is one of the worst career fields to go into in America. At least the science part is. I say this as someone who left a science Ph.D. when I saw that no one around me was getting a decent job after graduation. And I'm glad I did. Everyone I know who stayed on that route is either working a minimum wage job or jobless ("overqualifed" for everything, apparently) and on food stamps or living at home with their parents in their mid-30s.

    In general, early career scientists are screwed because a

  • by frank_adrian314159 ( 469671 ) on Monday March 23, 2015 @11:41AM (#49321345) Homepage

    We're getting to a point where, due to both science and communication technologies, everyone's flaws and a fuckton of conflicting "facts" can easily be manufactured and disseminated. Power imbalances that could be hidden in the past are now obvious to anyone and a lot of people are asking "Why?" Why does the world have to be like this? Do we really have the shortage of things that economics talks about, or is it that distribution of these things is fucked up? Are the people who are in power actively encouraging and perpetuating dysfunctional behaviors in an attempt to gain more power? Does technology allow us to distribute government control more broadly and still maintain some semblance of a society? In short, all of the questions that we've allowed "professional pundits" and politicians to answer for us in the past.

    Right now, economics focuses on "efficiency" more than any other factor.You've reached a post-"economic" age where businesses that hid their externalities in the past can no longer do so. If these costs of externalities are calculated and charged to the companies, many would no longer be profitable causing huge disruptions in the economy. How corporations should pay for these externalities foisted upon us is the seminal question of the age. We used to think that their tax load and benefit in providing employment was sufficient. But now people who run corporations say "we have to avoid taxes". They say "we have to outsource to be competitive. So they pay less, we pay more. Well, until people see the costs of the externalities well enough and feel the pain of their own payments to the corporate behemoth to understand out that the game is rigged. I dread that day, because those in charge seem to be doing everything in their power to steer towards it.

  • Minus 25% admin fee?
  • by Anonymous Coward

    is being spent to tell white males to go to the back of the bus.

    Not saying you cannot get this education, just that we don't want your type up front.

  • The POTUS approves or disapproves of budgets. Per the US Constitution, it is the responsibility of Congress to create and pass budgets.

    This will go nowhere.
  • The role of the POTUS is not to create budgets, only to approve or veto. Per the US Constitution, it is the responsibility of Congress to create and pass budgets.

    This will go nowhere.
  • We are trying to get more Americans in STEM, but until we have enough, we need more H1Bs.

  • The supplementary spending bills passed by congress put the cost of one day of war in Iraq to $280 million, and this number does not include the long term costs.

    Imagine what we could do if we had a war on ignorance?

  • I think more financial education would have a bigger impact on people's lives. Personal finance tied in with higher education and career planning. Basic cost/benefit analysis. Also business finance like how corporations work and how to start a company.
    All they taught me in high school was how to write a check.
    • "All they taught me in high school was how to write a check."

      Seems like this is what is needing to be taught more nowadays....along with balancing it, and how APR and interest rates work.

  • Since the majority of college attendees AND college graduates are women, does that mean they're looking particularly for men?

    Somehow, I doubt it.

  • It's all well and good to talk about supporting STEM education, but that doesn't do much good if everyone who considers investing their time and effort in that direction realizes that they'll be burdening themselves with intolerable debt, and that there's a very good chance they won't be able to get a job which will even let them keep up with accumulating interest.

    This smells to me like a pure PR move.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Many graduate programs in STEM waive most of the tuition and pay a monthly stipend to the students in exchange for teaching labs, grading undergraduate coursework, and/or working as a research assistant. It isn't a lot (actually, it's often less than minimum wage if you work out the pay divided by the hours most research advisors will expect of you), but it is enough to live on at a just-above-poverty level. It is entirely possible to get a graduate degree in STEM while incurring little to no additional d

  • There's no point trying to guess what employers will want by the time you get done spending anywhere from four to ten years chasing down the education they think you need for that job.

    You'll never be the Purple Squirrel,
    You'll never even see one.
    'Cause I can tell you anyhow,
    They'd rather H1B one.

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