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United Kingdom Social Networks News Technology

Harmful Lies Spread Easily in the UK Because the Nation Lacks a Law To Regulate Social Media, Study Concludes (bbc.com) 249

Misleading and harmful online content about Covid-19 has spread "virulently" because the UK still lacks a law to regulate social media, an influential group of MPs has said. From a report: The Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee urged the government to publish a draft copy of promised legislation by the autumn. It follows suggestions the Online Harms Bill might not be in force until 2024. The group's chairman said tech firms could not be left to self-regulate. "We still haven't seen correct legislative architecture put in place, and we are still relying on social media companies' consciences," said Julian Knight. "This just is not good enough. Our legislation is not in any way fit for purpose, and we're still waiting. What I've seen so far has just been quite a lot of delay." Google and Facebook have said they have invested in measures to tackle posts that breach their guidelines. But the report has already been welcomed by the children's charity NSPCC. "The committee is right to be concerned about the pace of legislation and whether the regulator will have the teeth it needs," said Andy Burrows, its head of child safety online policy.
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Harmful Lies Spread Easily in the UK Because the Nation Lacks a Law To Regulate Social Media, Study Concludes

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  • by DudeBlokeLadFellow ( 6206386 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:34PM (#60321173)

    Like the results of the child-grooming gang investigations. Can't allow something that is bound to cause social unrest to be released to the public.

    I suppose the next logical step is to suppress opinion that clashes with official narratives. Must save the people from themselves, you know.

    • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:42PM (#60321189) Journal

        > the next logical step is to suppress opinion that clashes with official narratives.

      Seems to me that's THIS step, not the next. "Untrue" would be whatever doesn't match the official truth, isn't it.

      So, will this law:
      A. Stop people from saying dumb shit
      B. Give politicians a way to prosecute people who say stuff they don't agree with

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Babel-17 ( 1087541 )
        Yes, who decides what is harmful, what is a lie, who should be de-platformed, and who should suffer legal sanctions.
        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Don't you know, can't you guess. The rich and powerfull buy access to control censorship of the rest and when you censor the truth, you are free to publish lies, including those that get people who oppose the establishment arrested.

          Yeah, this is some real monarchist psycho shite, first they started with Russian interference in social media as the scam to start this and now they are already trying to push to silence the rest of us, using the chaos of covid 19, they created on purpose.

          It looks worse and wor

    • Like the results of the child-grooming gang investigations. Can't allow something that is bound to cause social unrest to be released to the public.

      I suppose the next logical step is to suppress opinion that clashes with official narratives. Must save the people from themselves, you know.

      Kinda crazy that we went from "saving the people from themselves" to saving the people from themselves. Anyone can stand on the corner naked wearing nothing but a sign board droning on about the end of days. THAT is free speech. The problems begin when the sources come from places that ordinary people perceive as a position of authority , or a trusted space. Then it becomes deception. We needn't stifle free speech, we need to better understand misinformation in the modern age. If you presume to be a "new

      • UK news media havenâ(TM)t done much factual reporting for a long time. Costs too much.
        Easier to make stuff up.

      • If you presume to be a "news agency" then you must present unbiased fact. If you are presenting "opinion" then you must be clearly labeled as such.

        Oh, I see.

        Maybe it would be a good start to get all existing mainstream "news agencies" to publish nothing but "unbiased fact".

        Call me back after a few decades and several major wars when you have accomplished that.

    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      child-grooming gang

      Sorry, please stop using that term.

      They're child rape gangs.

  • The U.K. also has slander like laws that prevent the common folk from freely expressing opposition. If a powerful person says a lie, it is not easy as it is in the US to call them on it. Likewise if a powerful person does not like your opinion of them, it is easy for them to sue you in a similar thing to a SLAPP suit. They donâ(TM)t have win, just drive you to poverty. MCDonalds did this year ago with people who were just trying to start a conversation about the health impact of its food.
    • America has food libel laws [wikipedia.org].

      A few years back, Oprah Winfrey was sued for slandering meat.

    • Total nonsense. 100% wrong. I'm one of those poor people and can criticise and even vulgarly abuse any person I like, famous or powerful or not. But if I *invent* or publish malicious falsehoods that damage a person (reputation, livelihood etc) then they can sue me. Truthfulness is *always* a valid defence, as is lack of intent. If I somehow *inadvertently* publish damaging falsehoods I can avoid penalty by withdrawing the remark(s).

      • "On 25 April 2013 the Defamation Act 2013 was enacted. Among other things, it requires plaintiffs who bring actions in the courts of England and Wales alleging libel by defendants who do not live in Europe to demonstrate that the court is the most appropriate place to bring the action. In addition, it includes a requirement for claimants to show that they have suffered serious harm, which in the case of for-profit bodies is restricted to serious financial loss. It removes the current presumption in favour o

    • I have been reading an excellent book: "The Secret Barrister: Stories of the Law and How it's Broken" by an anonymous English barrister. (The anonymity is necessary for obvious reasons).

      It is full of horrifying stories and facts that most people never dream of. This, for instance, is a scenario from the criminal law:

      "We thus have the theatrical pantomime of a private prosecutor falsely accusing an innocent person of a crime, bringing a case to trial, losing and walkig away financially restituted, while the

  • Makes Sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kunedog ( 1033226 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:38PM (#60321183)
    Who's surprised that a country with nothing like the 2nd Amendment, would also have nothing like the 1st?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      What, one can shoot lies away?

    • by aliquis ( 678370 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @10:05PM (#60321237)

      Of course socialist acedemia, social students, "scientists" and what not will demand restricted speech - There can be lies! It can be hurtful! Quick change it so only our message can be heard!

    • Yeah, because that 2nd protected so many others in the US.

      Warrantless search is unconstitutional! Well, unless it's "on a computer" (or a cellphone for that matter). Freedom of speech must be upheld. At least in free speech zones while you can't protest anywhere where it could actually be noticed. Speedy and fair trials are guaranteed by the constitution. Unless we consider you so bad that we put you in a special prison where you won't get any of that.

      Yes, the 2nd was never touched by that. Because your lea

    • We often get this "I need my guns to protect me from my government [the one whose electoral model is promoted throughout the world]" yet does it work in reality?

      Remember Waco? or the gun nuts complaining about National Parks? did their guns help against a heavily armed government?

      The theoretical benefits don't occur - yet the drawback of over 330 mass shootings a year are sadly a reality.

      I guess it's a question of perspective - how you value a theoretical freedom against a life. When more people get kille

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We actually do have laws protecting freedom of speech. It's part of the Human Rights Act, which implements the European Convention on Human Rights. The list of exceptions is actually quite similar to those in the US.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      • Re:Makes Sense (Score:4, Informative)

        by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Thursday July 23, 2020 @05:29AM (#60321955) Journal

        Count Dankula would not have been prosecuted in the US for making a fucking joke.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It shouldn't have happened here and I hope his appeal to the European Court of Human Rights succeeds.

          Unfortunately our current government does not believe in human rights and wants to repeal that law once we are out of the brexit transition period. Obviously we must resist that.

  • I find it funny that many 18th century philosophers fretted a great deal about the speed by which a lie could spread back then.
  • by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:44PM (#60321191)
    the fascist
  • Free Speech (Score:5, Insightful)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:45PM (#60321195)

    The moment the government erodes free speech, everything will be screwed. All it would take is someone who believes the wrong things to get into power and classify everything they oppose as hate speech. Just boycott idiots who believe and say stupid things. Education, not censorship. Competition not oppression. Free speech makes things difficult, but not impossible. Restricting free speech will only grant a temporary high until it all crashes. That has happened to every time.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      All it would take is someone who believes the wrong things to get into power

      Hopefully there would be enough checks and balances that no one idiot or even one party can control the whole ship.

      Speaking of checks and balances, federal prosecution should probably be a 4th branch in the US government, not under the President.

      • Even with checks and balances, a majority of government officials or people can be temporarily mistaken or fooled especially in a crisis. Only allowing free speech can correct that.

    • if you tolerate people who want to eliminate free speech sooner or later they'll win a few elections and do just that. The Nazis won their elections.

      I'm honestly not sure what the solution is. Private Censorship of bad ideas would be best. But then it's not like we don't have some level of Government Censorship. I can't lie about the efficacy of a product, for example. Even in American we've got libel laws. There is a line, it's just about where we draw it.

      One thing I do know, as people age their br
    • by Bongo ( 13261 )

      The moment the government erodes free speech, everything will be screwed. All it would take is someone who believes the wrong things to get into power and classify everything they oppose as hate speech. Just boycott idiots who believe and say stupid things. Education, not censorship. Competition not oppression. Free speech makes things difficult, but not impossible. Restricting free speech will only grant a temporary high until it all crashes. That has happened to every time.

      I was going to say "true" but this would be the point — human fallibility — I can't know if what you say is really true, or false, for that matter — which is why we need the free exchange of ideas.

      There's an analogy with Covid-19. We tried to control it with lockdowns, but ultimately it is only our immune systems which can handle it. Same with information — if you are stupid enough to believe unquestioningly, then the problem isn't the material, it is education. There are countries w

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We have been screwed for a very, very long time.

      The real problem in the UK at the moment is the government lying. The gaslighting is unbelievable. It's taking too long for the media and opposition parties to adjust to it.

  • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:52PM (#60321205)

    Harmful lies?

    Oh, you mean those things Professional Narcissists on social media use to generate clicks and likes, also known as valid revenue streams?

    Not sure why we felt a need to "study" that behavior when Greed embraced the shit out of it long ago. Hard to find a social media platform who will shun that behavior when they're too busy feeding it.

  • Alternative theory: Spreading lies is profitable to very powerful people, and our capitalist economy prioritizes profits of private citizens over social cohesion.
    • by aliquis ( 678370 )

      Spreading lies is good for those who want to be in power, whatever it's for ideological reasons or economical ones. As is controlling people and thoughts. So they want to do it.

    • Agreed.
      That's why we need to strive for harmony, rather than truth.

      A social score that measures your 'goodness' and is updated daily seems to be the perfect way forward!

      P.S. /s

  • This is thinking about shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, sabotaged your relationship with your neighbors leaving you to become an impoverished 3rd-world island, started a rash of hate crimes, and convinced a bunch of morons to set fire to 5G towers.

    • Maybe the horse/barn door analogy isn't the best because there might still be further conceivable future damage that could be prevented by taking action - like the rise of a British QAnon or, I don't know, some madman being convinced that he should fly a plane into a nuclear reactor so he can see them aliens - but it is a bit late...

  • by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @10:09PM (#60321245)

    No it absolutely is a freedom of speech issue.

    Censorship is far more dangerous to society than having to expend constant effort countering BS in the market of ideas on equal terms.

    Once government has the power to silence those regarded as dangerous to society (e.g. dangerous to those with power) government is corrupted and becomes a far greater danger than people having fun with Brexit, 5G, vaccines, covid cures and social distancing.

    The problem with social media is intentionally poor governance in order to maximize profit not a lack of censorship.

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      Censorship is far more dangerous to society than having to expend constant effort countering BS in the market of ideas on equal terms.

      Citation needed. I see a western liberal democracy like Germany doing very well thank you with censorship. I see another western liberal democracy the UK doing very well thank you with no fundamental free-speech rights. I see Singapore doing very well thank you with government censorship.

      There doesn't seem to be any slippery slope, either. If a fascist gets to power, they can enact censorship laws themselves. Their absence won't in any way impede a fascist.

      • by OYAHHH ( 322809 )

        Citation:

        https://www.openrightsgroup.or... [openrightsgroup.org]

        You obviously need to read more.

        • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

          Wafflemonster claim: Censorship is far more dangerous to society than having to expend constant effort countering BS in the market of ideas on equal terms
          ljw1004 response: citation needed
          OYAHHH response: https://www.openrightsgroup.or... [openrightsgroup.org]

          ??? That's a non-sequitor. Wafflemonster claimed that censorship is far more dangerous to society than having to expend constant effort. OYAHHH's pdf made no evaluation of the danger of having to expend that constant effort, and so is unable to support the claim. It's doubly-non-sensical because OYAHHH's pdf is a set of practical advice on how censorship rules can be more fairly constructed and administered.

    • Unfortunately it takes far less time and effort to propagate bullshit than to debunk it. For reference, see Gish gallop [wikipedia.org].

    • Censorship is far more dangerous to society than having to expend constant effort countering BS in the market of ideas on equal terms.

      On equal terms you will lose, or have your 5G towers burnt down and ISP workers assaulted.

      Maybe the answer is not to censor speech but to provide a basic intelligence test to people before we allow them to be exposed to it. You need an IQ over 100 to read Facebook or Twitter or something like that.

      Once government has the power to silence those regarded as dangerous to society (e.g. dangerous to those with power) government is corrupted and becomes a far greater danger than people having fun with Brexit, 5G, vaccines, covid cures and social distancing.

      And yet absolute free speech is rare in countries, and those countries which do restrict speech are doing just fine thank you very much.
      One interesting thing here as well is just having a right means absolutely no

  • ...why harmful lies spread easily EVERYWHERE, regardless of how heavy-handed a government's controls may be on communication.

    • In a heavily controlled environment, only the lies spread that the one controlling allows to spread. That's the difference.

  • That's how everything looks like in my country after the law which made the web sites accountable for any added user content. It is too risky to have it or just too much effort to moderate it.

  • Anyone can play this game.

    I can say: People I disagree with can lie easily because I can not censor them.

    We need to censor, permaban, deplatform, and deperson anyone who demands censorship.

    I say let everyone who does not ask for censorship have their say.

  • The UK has literally been tossing people in jail [thedailybeast.com] for some time now, for tweets they considered WrongThink!!

    • Looks like he was jailed for hate speech, using racial slurs. The medium is irrelevant normally.
      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        I suspect it was the call for others to harass her that convinced police to act.

        Six months does however feel excessive. But they're sensitive about religion up in Glasgow, because the fucking idiots (much like the Northern Irish) still fucking care about shit that happened in the 17th century.

    • WrongThink

      Thought crimes and libelous hatespeech are not the same thing. If you're going to comment on the laws of another country you'd do well to understand them first.

  • Harmful Lies Spread Easily in the UK Because the Nation Lacks a Law To Regulate Social Media, Study Concludes

    Harmful wars spread easily in Europe because the continent lacks a law to stop government from censoring.

    It's the censoring, not who wields it.

  • ...that as troublingly 1984 as "unmarked government officers grabbing people off the street in Portland" is, some of us feel the cheerful consensus toward ensuring even the most casual speech between private individuals is even more troublingly Brave New World.

    In a free country, a racist, a communist, a feminist, a transgender, an anarchist, and a Trump supporter can all scream freely at each other, the government doesn't get to pick which is thinking the "right" thoughts.

    • Is not the government the People?

      In the backstory to 1984, was it not the the People that demanded censorship?

    • I wouldn't even mind if they bash each other's head in. Hell, I'd go around selling popcorn to the other onlookers.

    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      Again: You can think what you like, you can say 99% of that without incurring problems (slander, etc.) but what you can't do is demand people let you say that on their platform.

      And, to be honest, anything that incites hatred, threatens or condones violence is outside the bounds of free speech.

      Let those people yell at each other. Elsewhere. If someone wants to find the place where they all yell at each other, so be it. But letting it spread over social media that kids are using, unchecked, isn't a good t

  • by BardBollocks ( 1231500 ) on Thursday July 23, 2020 @12:02AM (#60321493)

    Pretty obvious, isn't it.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:29AM (#60321797)

    Lies can only work if people want to believe them. And that in turn requires people who are not capable of telling reality from bullshit.

    The reason we have such people is the way our education system works, where rote learning and accepting what you're being told is key while critical thinking and asking "uncomfortable" questions is discouraged. In such a climate, you end up with people who can only believe but not know. They have to believe something, and as soon as they notice in one aspect that they were bullshitted by the people they trusted, they will dump everything they were told by those people and start looking for others they could believe instead.

    What's going on here is that these people noticed that they were being bullshitted and are now looking for others to believe, and they become prey to those con men. They offer easy answers to very complex problems, and while easy answers usually have the drawback that they're false (duh, they're easy, someone else might have had them first if they worked), they are easy to understand and accept.

    You cannot suppress something like that. You could only give people the ability to see that what they're told is bullshit. This in turn, though, would require people to have the ability to question what they're being told.

    Unfortunately, nobody who could give these people that ability has any interest in doing so. Because until now, it was very useful and comfortable to have people who simply believe what you told them.

    • by Craefter ( 71540 )

      Very keen observation! Most of it is obvious, main stream media is bullshitting people, people go to the alternative media, main stream media starts attacking alternative media. So far so good.

      What I did not really realized was that the alternative media sources are not necessarily better sources. Some people are not really picky what the alternative is when the main goal is to get away from the main stream media.

  • No censorship is needed. Twitter could put a COVID-19 information mesage on messages about the subject which provides a link to WHO-based information. This does the job quite well. The arguments for censorship have long been discredited. Its better to respond to disinformation with accurate information and can be done without censorship. Furthermore social media has not really lead to this. Consider many of the untruths about HIV way back when that spread by word of mouth before social media existed. Social

  • Jesus H fucking Christ, why is it always with the whining... the government wont do this... the government isnt doing enough... the government.. the government. Since when is your entire existence predicated on what the government tells you to do? Stop sucking on the government tit and take some fucking responsibility for yourselves. Since when is it the governments job to make sure you know right from wrong? If some asshat makes up some BS about 5g, ask around, find some smart people. Ask someone who has

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