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FCC Commissioner Says Government Should Ban TikTok (axios.com) 80

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The Council on Foreign Investment in the U.S. (CFIUS) should take action to ban TikTok, Brendan Carr, one of five commissioners at the Federal Communications Commission, told Axios in an interview. From the report: "I don't believe there is a path forward for anything other than a ban," Carr said, citing recent revelations about how TikTok and ByteDance handle U.S. user data. Carr highlighted concerns about U.S. data flowing back to China and the risk of a state actor using TikTok to covertly influence political processes in the United States. There simply isn't "a world in which you could come up with sufficient protection on the data that you could have sufficient confidence that it's not finding its way back into the hands of the [Chinese Communist Party]," Carr said. Carr sent letters to Apple and Google in June asking the companies to remove the apps from their stores due to concerns about data flowing back to China.
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FCC Commissioner Says Government Should Ban TikTok More

FCC Commissioner Says Government Should Ban TikTok

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  • Foreigners can own media outlets in the US. Why do politicians have such a boner for banning TikTok?

    I'm not a TT user, but this demonization of TT seems ridiculous.

    • Re:Is "possible political impact" a criteria? (Score:5, Informative)

      by chill ( 34294 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:30PM (#63015463) Journal

      Because it isn't just "foreigners", but extensive ties to a foreign government. That and the sheer volume of data.

      TT has explicitly said it either can't or won't keep American data in American servers, that it will be going to servers in China. Geographic restrictions on where data is hosted is *common*.

      • It doesn't matter where the data is kept. What matters is who can access it.

        • Re:Is "possible political impact" a criteria? (Score:5, Informative)

          by chill ( 34294 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:43PM (#63015541) Journal

          Data residency is a legal concept. It very much matters where the data is kept. Yes, it also matters who can access it.

        • It doesn't matter where the data is kept. What matters is who can access it.

          Of course, if the developers of the software or the operators of the servers are in China then the Chinese government can access it. Would you be willing to suffer the consequences of disagreeing with the Chinese government [rfa.org]?

          However if the all servers are in China then the Chinese government can also get the data. Yes, there are architectures where you could keep the data in China and do the processing out of reach of China but your admins and processing servers would have to be somewhere else and that is no

          • As an American residing in America, I am protected against consequences for such disagreement, since it would require an act of war to enforce. Pooh Bear can try to come get me at any time.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by taustin ( 171655 )

          If it's kept in China, the Chinese government can access it. At gunpoint, if need be, but they can certainly access it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Sloppy ( 14984 )

        Might the problem be not that the Chinese government gets the data, but that USA government doesn't get the data?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by chill ( 34294 )

          No.

          Have you heard of the NSA? Or National Security Letters? Or Court Orders? If the US wants the data on anything sources in the US, they can get it. Suggesting otherwise is silly.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Sloppy ( 14984 )

            Maybe developers in China have decided to blow off the NSLs and US court orders. Suppose the TikTok binaries only use the Chinese government's public key to encrypt all the data it sends out (as opposed to a US-based app, where the developers can be coerced into making the app share with the US government). Any NSLs, court orders, or clandestine NSA operations would have to target the OS (or possibly the hardware) vendor, to indirectly backdoor the TikTok binary, in order to get the plaintext. I can see how

    • I don't view TikTok as a 'media outlet', which typically is defined as a broadcaster of news and information. TikTok is a short-form video sharing app. The problems were described in the article you apparently didn't read, but the main issue is collection of data on US users by the Chinese Communist Party.

      "China-based engineers working at TikTok accessed nonpublic U.S. user information, including phone numbers and birthdays".

      "the popular app is becoming a form of critical information infrastructure —

    • TikTok is literally built to be an asymmetric social warfare weapon. It's directly controlled by the Beijing State and used as a weapon. None of this is conspiracy, it's extremely well documented - even with primary sources in Mandarin from Beijing. The slow-rolling in the US to confront it directly is all internal US business-government politics and really has close to nothing to do with TikTok itself.

  • Hard to find any flaw in the argument (Score:5, Insightful)

    by redmid17 ( 1217076 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:25PM (#63015445)
    It's a very draconian step but handing the CCP a pipeline directly tens or hundreds of millions of US users, their preferences, and habits is an awful idea for national security.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by schwit1 ( 797399 )

      This ^^^^. Same for Huawei

    • Exactly.

      Go back anywhere between 15-70 years ago and the concept of anyone in the USA saying "Hey, I think it would be a good idea for a bunch of my entertainment and personal information should go to a communist government." is laughable. Ban these idiots immediately.

  • They must realize 'data' is everywhere already (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SmaryJerry ( 2759091 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:28PM (#63015457)
    Your YouTube, Facebook, and Google data isn't magically safe and protected simply because their servers and ultimate ownership are in the U.S. and not in China. All it takes is one employee out of hundreds of thousands to do a proper copy/paste. What is more concerning is the way the U.S. itself requests/accesses/uses these companies data on U.S. citizens without any evidence those citizens committed a crime. See Edward Snowden leaks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      Given that, I can't help but wonder if this is really related to that other story about the DHS "policing" US social media companies [slashdot.org].

      Is this really about "protecting American's data" or is this about "ensuring the federal government can control political discourse on social media?"

      And if not, is the real problem that the US government doesn't have easy access to the information TikTok collects? Because the real fall-out from Edward Snowden's leak wasn't the NSA canceling its data collection, it was that the

      • Right... because elections are won or lost depending on whose supporters put out the best Tik Tok dance videos! /s

        As far as the cat already being out of the bag on your data already being available to anyone with money to pay for it, I agree.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

          Right... because elections are won or lost depending on whose supporters put out the best Tik Tok dance videos! /s

          Never said it did - just that the US government is known to want to control political messaging on social media. It was in the Slashdot story I linked. I expect we're going to find out more about how as Elon Musk takes control of Twitter.

          Just because it may not be effective, doesn't mean that the government doesn't want to do it.

          • Yeah, the DHS announcement sounds Orwellian. But one has to admit that disinformation about COVID and vaccinations is actually killing people. and was likely created deliberately by Russian and Iranian trolls. So while I have mixed feeling about government censorship, it may be appropriate to censor disinformation that is causing tangible harm to people -- perhaps including muzzling people like Tucker Carlson. Like many issues, the problem is that nobody can really be trusted to make unbiased decisions abou

      • This is about who is developing the environment otherwise where the data is kept and who is authorized to access it would not be an issue.

  • And Gen Z will revolt

  • "the risk of a state actor using TikTok to covertly influence political processes..."

    I love how America's response to this is ban it rather than question how the hell TikTok ever became something that could "covertly influence political processes".

    This is like Nerf showing up at the next US Defense Weapons Expo and no one looking at that 'weapons' manufacturer and going "fucking seriously??"

  • Can the same be said about other social media? The ability of foreign actors to covertly influence US politics? Will Snapchat come next?

    Social media has let the disinformation (oh for fuck sake call it what it isâ"lying and manipulation) genie out of the bottle. A lot of good has come from social media, and a lot of evil has come from it, and the two donâ(TM)t necessarily cancel each other out to quiet the noise.

  • What is so sensitive about TikTok's useless data? (Score:3)

    by Somervillain ( 4719341 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:44PM (#63015543)
    So the Chinese gov MAY (we don't honestly know) know what videos we waste our time on? Who cares?

    If you want regulations on location data use, that makes sense, but a ban is pretty heavy-handed for some theoretical concerns. Is this just protectionism for Google and the streaming services?

    I've heard stories about soldiers being forbidden from using Tiktok, which makes sense, but the same should be applied for all non-essential apps on their phone while at bases or on active duty. I am sure you can leak even more sensitive information with a poorly-placed selfie on Instagram or Reddit.

    First of all, it's stupid for people to think a trite entertainment app is a threat. What's really going on? What are they trying to distract you from? It's possible TikTok could be using their app for espionage, but that really makes no sense and we have no evidence of it. They're making a TON of money. If people found out the Chinese gov was using the data for spy purposes, it would threaten that severely EVERYWHERE. I think the gov wants TONS of money more than knowing what videos teenagers watch. I don't believe they're making these stupid proclamations in good faith, and I want to know their real motivation. What are they actually afraid of?...TikTok eating into YouTube's market?...reducing the dominance of American ad companies?
    • Be lazier?
      ,br /> They even mention it in the summary:
      ,br /> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/a... [buzzfeednews.com]
      • The article says nothing about how or why the data being harvested is a threat.
        • It does indeed.

          Project Texas’s narrow focus on the security of a specific slice of US user data, much of which the Chinese government could simply buy from data brokers if it so chose, does not address fears that China, through ByteDance, could use TikTok to influence Americans’ commercial, cultural, or political behavior.

          And we know this happens because Russia and China are already doing it on Twitter and Facebook.

  • Please credit Trump (Score:3)

    by oumuamua ( 6173784 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @01:49PM (#63015573)
    Not a fan of Trump but he was adamant on banning tiktok but was overruled by the courts https://www.genolve.com/design... [genolve.com]
    • Trump was an idiot, but he wasn't wrong about everything, and obviously he had advisors that gave him good info on what some of the risks we are currently facing are. He just wasn't particularly effective at mitigating any of those risks.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah...it's fine to talk about it now that HE isn't the one pushing it. No comment on Trump either way...just an observation on the hypocrisy. That being said...the idiot masses should wise up, and stop with this shit voluntarily...rather than relying on government intervention. Yes...I realize that would never happen.

  • Is it illegal for them to post hypnotic, mesmerizing content? The GOD DAMN SAME AUDIO CLIP OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

    ... ahem. I mean, maybe those artists creating hacking coughs that repeat endlessly deserve some royalties.
    • YouTube has copied the automatically repeating sort video concept for YouTube shorts. I haven't figured out how to filter those out of my feed yet. Obviously they are just giving the consumer what they demand... assuming "the consumer" means young uns with a 2 second attention span.

  • That probably resolves the issue for China and other actors!

    Or should China be the only one not to enjoy the benefits of our not having privacy?

  • Regardless of the merits of banning TikTok, Brendan Carr is a Trump appointee who is mainly known for his fealty to the right-wing agenda. He's against net neutrality, against Section 230, and is probably more interesting in boosting his own political profile than in national security with his anti-TikTok campaign.

  • Letting the Chinese government weaponize... (Score:3)

    by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @02:27PM (#63015825)
    ... our morons with mindfuckery is not a good play.

  • "Oh TikTok is fine, they have no right to ban it! What information could they even be getting?" -- So says a teen family member as they type away on their Apple iPhone watching TikTok videos and move on to their Apple MacBook using their Google account to access Google Docs to write a paper for school.

    "Well, how about you sign up for Facebook Messenger, so we can communicate with you better while you are at school since we don't have iPhones?" -- A Parent

    "NO WAY!!! Facebook is evil and all they do is ga

  • I quit TokTok when (Score:5, Informative)

    by cliffjumper222 ( 229876 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @02:54PM (#63015993)

    I realized the subtle pro-China propaganda videos popping up in my stream - stay with me! - I'm not a tinfoil hat wearer - but it was incongruent enough to tickle my Spidey-sense. In amongst the dance videos and memes, were videos of normal Chinese people talking about their apartment building, videos by US teenagers living in China raving about how it was more free than the US, and a whole load of what I'd class as "life in the US isn't great" type videos calling out well known US issues like guns, trash, and wage inequality. None of this by itself is wrong but it is definitely pro-Chinese propaganda even if an algorithm picked it. Note that I didn't see any pro-other country propaganda material - just China, which was odd. I am aware that the US has propaganda as well - most of the mass media promotes US values. But it did make me uneasy that the Chinese, who I actually have a lot of respect for, certainly had a hand on the tiller of my video stream and were 100% peppering it with pro-China content. You are what you consume and that goes for that screen you put in front of your face for hours every day. If you don't mind having your thoughts influenced then keep TikTok'ing, but for me, I deleted it.

    • This is what the algorithm is designed to do. You were just smart enough to see it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonadab ( 583620 )
      Yes, ByteDance was created specifically for the purpose of narrative shaping. The ostensibly American subsidiary TikTok is significantly more subtle about it than the Chinese-language original, but it would be incredibly naive to imagine that they don't *do* it.

      If you have any doubts about whether the CCP controls TikTok algorithms and policy, get on there and start talking about Tibet or Taiwan or Tiananmen Square, see what happens. (Of course, you have to be willing to lose your account. Also, don't do

  • Too late (Score:3)

    by Chelloveck ( 14643 ) on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @03:03PM (#63016035)
    Oh, Brendan Carr, you sweet innocent child, you. Every foreign actor who wants to influence US politics is already doing so on every social media platform in existence. There's no need to actually own the platform.

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