Children Of Dune Tonight 207
JQuazar writes "Time to get to that Tivo and select 'pick programs to record,' Children of Dune starts Sunday on the SciFi channel!" Waiting...patiently...
That does not compute.
My wife and I are having a Dune parties (Score:3, Funny)
The only rule is: No Talking! and you have to have read the books... non believers can stay home!
thank you... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My wife and I are having a Dune parties (Score:3, Funny)
Re:My wife and I are having a Dune parties (Score:2, Funny)
You're joking, right? Tell me you're joking. If you are not joking, please tell me your latitude and longitude and stay where you are...
Wife not a Dune fan, I'll be glued to TV (Score:1)
Re:Wife not a Dune fan, I'll be glued to TV (Score:2)
(It doesn't hold a candle to the original Dune [imdb.com] movie. Herbert was part of that movie. The SciFi stuff is quite bad by comparision.)
and don't forget to ... (Score:1)
WTF is up with riverworld? (Score:2)
But.
WHAT THE HELL did they do to riverworld? Has anyone bothered to read the synopsis of it? No richard burton, now everyone speaks the same language, etc. Total crap for anyone that has read the books.
The cool thing was that the primary character was burton BECAUSE he was a superior linguist and swordsman and explorer. I actually read a bio of him once I read these books because I couldn't believe that someone like him was legit.
Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
It just seemed to me in the miniseries, they purposely avoided doing anything that had been done in the film, just so that they would be different, even in the rare instance when the film did it right.
I will probably ended up P2Ping off the internet an
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
SciFi can't even pronounce the names correctly. I don't hold out any hope of them getting anywhere near the books.
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:1)
And, just like the book version of Children of Dune was better than the first one, I think the miniseries will also be better.
I just hope they get a chance to do God Emperor of Dune. That was my favorite.
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
Well. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have shared mine, thank you for sharing yours.
I will say, however, I have never seen a movie adaptation of an original book that was better than the book.
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
Either you've never seen Blade Runner, the Director's Cut, or you've never read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. The movie was much better than the original book.
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:3, Interesting)
I can only say that I don't really consider the movie to be based on the book [amazon.com], more like, "inspired" by it. I know that is a weak distinction, but if you have read Future Noir: The Making of Blade Runner [amazon.com], I think you'd find that my viewpoint withstands scrutiny.
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
Re:Actually, start a little sooner... (Score:2)
Okey-doke. I don't even really have to respond to that, do I?
Please don't troll.
Direct download for the Prologue (Score:5, Informative)
Download it here [scifi.com].
Oh yeah, dune (Score:5, Interesting)
IIRC, at the end of Dune 2, Paul had run away into the dessert leaving his children at the mercy of the Bene Gesserit etc. Lot of people were dissapointed with the fact that Paul turned out to be a sissy after all.
Now, Leto and Chani have grown up sharing every memory; The abomination has gripped St Alia-of-the- knife. Everything now hinges on the awesome sacrifice Leto has to make. (Some sacrifice: he covers himself with sandtrout and becomes a human-worm meld that lives a thousand years as the God-emperor.) Someone refresh my memory : What else happens?
most of God-emperor was totally over my head, but Heretics and Chapterhouse were amazing. And now to ask the perennial question: who were the old couple at the end of CH:D?
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
Leto's sacrifice: to live thousands of years, seeing everyone he loved die, and to become the "greatest predator mankind has ever known". Because of Leto's oppression (and his ability to carry out the oppression over many lifetimes -- long term planning), there would be no more Emperors, and mankind would scatter farther than it would have normally.
Whatever the Bene Gesserit-cum-Honored Matres were running from, it was scary as h
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
The prequel books were *ok*. I think only those interested in the dune storyline would really enjoy them. They were good enough to keep me reading, rather than some other series books that I ended up just discarding after reading half way through.
I thought the last two books in the series, heretics and chapterhouse were respectable. I wonder whether God Emperor and those
Dune Encyclopedia, ISBN #0425068137 (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:5, Interesting)
I must protest!
Paul Maud'dib was living the Fremen way! If you're blind (as Paul was) you're a burden to your people and you go into the desert to die. It was either that or live in hypocrasy. I thought it was a shame at first, but in the end I decided it's better to burn out than to fade away. After all, Paul bailed as the series got lame . .
Like you said, the books got really freaky after the second one. God Emperor was just too weird for me, and I gave up on the last two because I thought the series was in a death spiral.
But if you reckon they were worth it, I may go back and give them a go. What does everyone else think?
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing I particularly like about it is that it's science fiction written with an emphasis on the psychological and philosophical, as opposed to the 'Hard SF' (technologically-based) and fantasy stuff (wizards, goblins, whatever, I couldn't give a fuck, really). There are themes in all 6 books that you don't really find in other science fiction, certainly not as developed anyways.
Tim O'Reilly in an interview with Herbert discovered that a lot of the first 3 books were meant as a riposte to Asimov's Foundation series -- there's a sense in Foundation that 'the wise men of science will save us', whereas Herbert felt quite strongly that trusting in any single group of people was a failure of intellect. (This has elements related to the Hard SF mentioned above, but I digress)
One thing I found interesting about the Bene Gesserit was that they were sketched initially as a female version of the Jesuits.
Enough of this. Read them, they're worth the effort. Really.
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:3, Interesting)
Spoiler Warning!
After Dune, just about everything is depressing. God Emperor of Dune was weird enough, but wait until you come to Heretics of Dune.
Herbert builds up a belief system, where he just shows everything that you knew and respected fade away. And things that you loved to despise, or did not quite like of, like say the BG, turn out to be almost the nice guys!
And then you will realize why Leto-I
Re:Butlerian Jihad (Score:2)
This has bothered me as well. The Ixians don't play much of a role in the books until the God Emperor, and even then it's a tad confused: they provide the God Emperor with all his "forbidden" toys, yet also send people to attempt to kill Leto. It's almost as if Leto still
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Nuances, man (Score:2)
There's a plot to kill Paul's children.
The sacrifice Leto makes is the one that Paul is unwilling to try for; that of using prescience to its logical end (the removal of all free will from the universe).
Basically, the question is, what happens if you know the future? It's an awesome power: Paul eventually blinds himself to take himself out of ruling Dune and the Empire. Leto, having both prescience and the ability to consult his dead ancestors through livi
Re:Nuances, man (Score:1)
Huh? Paul was blinded by a stoneburner, a weapon (near as I can determine) made specifically as a terror weapon for that very task.
(been a while since I read it though)
SB
Re:Nuances, man (Score:1)
Re:Nuances, man (Score:2)
Re:Nuances, man (Score:1)
----------
"The Naraj defenders used a stone burner," Farok said. "My son was too close. Cursed atomics! Even the stone burner should be outlawed."
----------
Oh, and twilight30, you were right:
----------
Paul, knowing that sound and glow from the earliest nightmare glimpses of his vision, felt an odd sense of fulfillment. It went the way it must. "Stone burner!" someone screamed.
"Stone burner!" The cry was all around him.
"Stone burner . . . stone burner . .
-----------
Took some digging! Wis
Re:Nuances, man (Score:2)
Yep, that's what happens when you play with your sandworm all day.
Re:Nuances, man (Score:2)
I'm afraid your summary was incomplete (Score:2)
Don't forget the reason that Leto wants to create this stagnant, boring culture: He and Paul had prescient dreams about the extinction of humanity. These dreams fixed the shape of the future (else they wouldn't be prescient, right?). Prescience d
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:1)
Leto's "sacrifice" was to accept his Godhood in the way Paul could not accept the Golden Path. Basically, the Golden Path was meant to scatter human life away from the empire; to stir the pot for a while (roughly 3000 years), keeping our humanity.
3000 years after Children of Dune, God Emperor was deeply philosophical, and
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Then I picked up the new Dune prequals done and read the forwards. It seems that Frank Herbert planned to finish the book series after Chapterhouse in a stunning climax, neatly bringing together the Golden Path and the evolution of humanity, but he died before even starting the book.
For years, Brian (the son and co-author of the prequals)
God Emperor my favorite! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
Dune 2 == Dune Messiah
Now, Leto and Chani have grown up sharing every memory
Chani is Paul's girl. Ghanima is Leto II's sister--both of whome are Paul and Chani's kids.
I've just started God Emperor, so can't add much more, sorry.
My understanding is that tonight's SciFi "Children of Dune" has a few good FX shots of Leto II as God Emperor...probably in the third night. I've been told, by those who certainly should know, that there are some simply breath taking shots to w
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway... Dune was basically about ecology. Dune Messiah was about politics. Children of Dun was about duty. God Emperor was about evolution. Chapterhouse Dune was about death.
I don't have a one word summary for Heretics of Dune, but the one-word summaries are clearly too shallow anyway.
When evaluating any action
Re:Oh yeah, dune (Score:2)
I quite like the Herbert film as well, especially the director's cut they play on SciFi sometimes. Wish they would release that as a DVD. There's about a half hour of additional footage that brings the whole movie together and makes it more accessible.
Missing Option (Score:2, Funny)
I dont have a Tivo, you insensitive cl..
Oh, wait... This is not a poll ? Never mind, move along, all you Tivos !
Humpfh (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmm, just more intellectually devoid crap for the masses. No wonder I haven't turned on my television for 12 years. Tripe tripe tripe.
Oh, wait, did you say SciFi channel and/or anime!?! Hell, I special ordered my TiVo already preprogrammed for this event baby!!
Save Farscape!!
Yawn (Score:2, Funny)
Personally, I'm boycotting it. (Score:2)
Catch Dune in repeats, if it's that important. But don't watch it this week.
And for those with tivo's (Score:5, Informative)
Re:These seem cool (Score:2)
Re:These seem cool (Score:1)
Not on UK Sci-Fi (Score:2)
What about... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Yep (Score:3, Funny)
Impatience is the mind killer...
Re:Yep (Score:1)
cool! (Score:1)
I think they worked for Sci-Fi
Having seen it already... (Score:5, Informative)
First off, there are no real spoilers in this comment. Things like it's a 4.5 hour movie split into three 1.5 hour segments are fair game.
If you liked the first movie, you'll enjoy this one. This movie covers both the second and third books, of which I've heard bad things. If you like them just for entertainment then you'll do well. If you are a Dune fanatic, then whether you enjoy them or not depends on whether you enjoyed the books or not.
Technically they are well done. The effects are as well done as the first miniseries, and the acting is on par with the first. If anything lacks, I'd say it was due to the books they are following rather than any problems of the production. Since I haven't read the books I can't comment on how well they follow the plot, except to say that the summaries I've seen online match the movies.
All that said, I enjoyed spending a nice quiet evening with my wife watching it. It was a long evening (4.5 hours), but we were glued to the set, so we couldn't turn it off and continue it later. I'd hate to see it with commercials and with time in between. If you hate that to, then be aware that you video store will have it on its shelves on May 20th in DVD and VHS.
I'll reply to this post with a movie summary.
-Adam
******SPOILERS****** (Score:5, Insightful)
Paul becomes blind due to a terrorist attack on a city he is visiting. The ancient fremen way has blind people go out into the desert to die, which is rather respectful since they don't demand the body water they carry at death. His sister reigns while his child is growing up. A fremen prophet rises up against alia (pauls reigning sister), saying that arakis is and should be a desert planet, rather than the green earth-like planet pauls and now his sister's reign has made it. The worms are dying because of this.
Real story (Big spoilers): Pauls public wife is giving his fremen concubine contraceptives. The are discovered, and decide to use the fremen method to overcome their effects. She has twins, a boy and a girl, and dies in childirth. During this time those who were instruction pauls wife to give the contraceptive launch another plan to prevent the birth or kill the children. They fail, but pauls wife dies due to the speed of the pregnancy and delivery. The children grow up under the care of pauls wife and sister (their aunt), as paul leaves for the desert due to his blindness. During the remainder of the movie paul lives as the prophet testifying against his own riegn and sister. Most of the other characters do not realize this, but suspect it so they don't have him assasinated as they would any other detractor.
The remainder covers the treachery of another house trying to disrupt the spice trade so they can gain additional power and control. This fails due in part to their own treachery, and in part to pauls mother. Sister alia becomes delusional and power hungry, and eventually kills herself. Pauls son becomes one with the worms, and thus endowed with power begins to bring down the house of paul atreides, bringing arrakis back to its desert self.
There's more, but I gotta go.
-Adam
Re:******SPOILERS****** (Score:2)
I know it's confusing, but let's go over this again: Chani, Paul's concubine and mother of his children, dies in the second book. Paul married Irulan for purely political reasons, and she doesn't give him any children. ;-)
Re:Having seen it already... (Score:1)
Re:Having seen it already... (Score:2)
Or you have a broadband connection
Re:Having seen it already... (Score:2)
They're called screeners, since the studios are asking us to screen them and hopefully put them on our shelves.
-Adam
Re:Having seen it already... (Score:2)
Re:Having seen it already... (Score:1)
It's hard to criticize such incisive comments.
I mean, you haven't read the books, but you're sure that any negative aspec
Damnit Janet! (Score:1, Flamebait)
I would have liked to have watched it.
Also Airing Tonight... (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't Expect Nice Neat Endings (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never read the series though I hav read tons of sci-fi books. I saw the origional movie [imdb.com] before I joined the Navy out of HS and started reading Sci-Fi. This is still the first half of the Frank Herbert Dune timeline [dunenovels.com]. Its looking like one or two more mini-series' are in order (God Emperor of Dune,Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune). Let's hope this series makes a bundle so they keep making them.
Why TV sucks (Score:2)
Re:Why TV sucks (Score:2)
I won't be missing either...
will the acting still be as flat as a pancake? (Score:5, Insightful)
Every character was totally uninspiring and the acting was just... horrible (never to mention the odd accents getting in the way of everything).
Kyle MacLachlan can act the pants off this Alec Newman guy.
William Hurt is a normally a fine actor, but in the dune miniseries they had him as if he was permanently goosed up on nyquil or something.
Then the sets. Many of them were BLINDINGLY obviously sound stages, especially the desert scenes. It was very distracting.
The only thing distracting about the Lynch production was Duke Leto speaking into a socket wrench
As jumbled as the Lynch dune production was, and despite how much it deviated from the book, it was easily a million times more enjoyable than the miniseries production.
Given all that, I guess they can hardly do worse than the first miniseries. Nowhere to go but up...
Re:will the acting still be as flat as a pancake? (Score:2)
The special effects in the series, at least for me, did not detract at all from the story; this was precisely because the series followed the essence and the ideas of the book if not precisely the images. Have you ever seen a play or an opera? Certainly no one would believe the sets are real, but the sets are there merely to advance the plot and the story. Too many productions rely on dramatic visuals but fail in the impor
Re:will the acting still be as flat as a pancake? (Score:1)
I thought it was terrible through and through (apart from the deviation from the printed source, that is understandable).
I prefer to movie, but am still waiting for it to
be done right...along with LOTR.
Agreed, but still liked it. (Score:2)
Willaim Hurt should have had his SAG card yanked for that performance. Honestly, he really phoned that one in.
But still, think about the production costs. Think about the blindingly huge concepts the books have to cover. With all of that in mind, you really get to the point that there are some real impossibilities with making these work IN ANY FASHION. I am impressed that they even try.
Yet they do. And although not perfect, they do in my estimation a bang up job. SO FOR THAT, I consider them
To understand and enjoy the miniseries... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a movie. It's a filmed theature production with a few special effects.
Without that, you're doomed.
The performance of the Baron Harkonnen is most telling and what first twigged me to this; after the big space scene with the House Atreides moving off Caladan it looked like a movie, but as the planet Dune fades into the Baron's face, who is quite obviously delivering a soliloquy, I understood.
After that, the soundstages, the extreme lighting, a lot of other little things, it will all make sense. I also think that given the obvious budget constraints the hybridized approach allowed a superior product to be produced, vs. the cost of doing the whole thing as a movie. The cost of filming "on location" would have been truly prohibitive, and the project would simply never have been at all. Considering the IMHO fine quality of the final product, I think it's worthwhile.
I didn't find the acting flat, I found it appropriate for that environment.
I suspect the same will be true of the sequel, though as I can't get the Sci-Fi channel (sob!!!) I won't know. So watch it as a recorded theatrical production, not as a movie, and I think you'll see what I mean and enjoy it more.
The only thing that I really feel was sacrificed and I wish they had tried a bit harder ($$$) was they lost the feeling of being out on the Dunes. Even just one shot on location with a nice sweep away (my choice would have been as Paul and Jessica emerged from the ornithopter just prior to finding the Fremen) would have added a lot and I would have forgiven them the rest of the soundstage stuff. (Remember in Star Trek VI the huge pull-away done on location in Alaska? Effective, even though all the scenes on each side of that were soundstage.)
Re:will the acting still be as flat as a pancake? (Score:2)
However, after just having seen the first part of the Children series tonite, I have to say it was amazingly well done.
The acting, direction and effects were much more subtle -- it seemed much more epic. Something about the previous series felt small, low budget, and made-for-TV.
And there was the overly theatrical lighting, bad CG matte paintings and painfully bad acting.
This one was just miles and miles better -- in a class of its own.
And the 20-ish Alia. ROWR!!!
Re:will the acting still be as flat as a pancake? (Score:2)
where i would have given the first series a 3, i give this one a 7. it was FAR less amateurish this time around, probably because they got a real directory...
the casting was much better this time around too!
james mcavoy gave a very good performance of leto II... the actor for duncan was much better... a better jessica... a much better stilgar!
bijaz was spot on, exactly as i imagined him from the book... scytale was a
Re:weirding modules, barf (Score:2)
The series worked for me, as long as I remembered this was a sci-fi made-for-tv-show. I think that following the book was a good thing, something that directors seem to have just realized recently.
btw, check out Children Of Dune on alt.binaries.multimedia.scifi
at 1.5 gigs its a bit hefty but good quality.
Why? (Score:1)
The Sci-Fi channels bastardization of Dune [imdb.com] was terrible.
Paul Atriedes played as a whiney brat by Alec Newman made me want to hork something up. Duke Leto could have been played by a cardboard stand-up of William Hurt. The only decent acting was done by Saskia Reeves as Lady Jessica.
When David Lynch's 1984 movie version [imdb.com] looks fantastic in comparison, you know that it's time to change the channel.
So no, I think I'll pass.
The Real Plot Summary of Children O' Dune: (Score:5, Funny)
1. Wait while your whole family dies in "accidents" or is "posessed by ghosts".
2. Become one with worm
3. [...]
4. Prophet!
For the Canadians.. (Score:2)
FRANK HERBERT'S CHILDREN OF DUNE Coming to Space [channelcanada.com]
My big question... (Score:2)
SO WHERE ARE THE SOUND GUNS AT IN THIS ONE?
That was the best part anyway.
(Dives into a bunker and holds his Jiffy-Pop Tin out the doorframe)
Re:My big question... (Score:1)
Cool idea, and lent itself fairly well to the big screen, but not canon.
What I've heard has been disappointing... (Score:1)
Most of all, though, it annoys me that they seem to have converted all of the characters into extremely attractive 17-year-olds. Which is especially fretting, as the way I read it, Ghanima and Leto are only ~8-10 at the time Children of Dune occurs.
Re: Children Of Dune Tonight (Score:1)
Not in the UK it isn't, you insensitive clod!
Nope, not me.... (Score:1)
Why would anybody risk watching SciFi? (Score:2)
They've proven that they can't be trusted to finish what they started. As a result, I don't trust them any more. How do you know that Children of Dune won't be cancelled just before the last episode? Or that any of their new series won't just be given the boot?
Damn Gentoo (Score:2)
I see you never read the books (Score:1, Insightful)
the characters right, the movie got
them wrong.
Re:Bleh - Really bad casting (Score:1)
I hate licorice (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Like we get the scifi channel down under not! (Score:1)
However this may just be Brisbane.
Unless you don't want to pay for them($65Aus), then you are screwed I am afraid.
You are
Re:No creativity (Score:2)
Re:No creativity (Score:2)
Re:boycott Susan Sarandon (Score:2)
Re:boycott Susan Sarandon (Score:2)
Starring Sting's pelvis, mostly.
Or SciFi's "Frank Herbert's Dune: Starring William Hurt!"
You've got to have a famous actor in a supporting role get top billing.