New Sony PVR/DVR and DVD Recorder 268
i4u writes "Sony announces in Japan a new digital recorder NDR-XR1 equipped with the 80GB hard drive and a DVD recorder.
The unit features a broadband connection to retrieve a programming guide. The system can record up to 90 hours of programming on the 80GB Hard drive.
Recorded shows can be directly burned on DVDs with the built-in DVD writer.
This is the dream machine! Wonder if it will be available on the US market, This baby is poised to 'piss-off' Hollywood. This would be a nice alternative to the ReplayTV box.
The Digital Recorder NDR-XR1 will go on sale April 12th in Japan."
Split Personality (Score:5, Insightful)
Or the Sony studio execs down the hall.
Re:Split Personality (Score:5, Funny)
It's amusing to watch a fight where in one corner, you have Megaconglomerate Sony, and in the other corner, you have Megaconglomerate Sony.
I think it's fair to say that only a company with the mighty resources of Sony could muster a fight against Sony.
But, to paraphrase Costanza, "A Sony divided against iteself cannot stand..."
They're not as dumb as you think. (Score:2, Insightful)
Trust me, attempting to interface it to a computer will prove to be excruciating. And just like Sony MiniDisks are proprietary, there is no guarantee that the "DVDs" will actually play anywhere else.
Remember Minidisc players (Score:5, Informative)
This has been done before with the NetMD minidisc players, which don't allow to extract the pieces recorded with the microphone.
I wouldn't be surprices, if those burned DVD can only be played back on the same unit, that DVD commercial DVD can't be copied or some other copyright protection idiocy.
it's not gonna piss anyone off (Score:2, Interesting)
ReplayTV pissed people off because it had features that let you skip commercials, and it had an ethernet port which meant that you could stream video from your ReplayTV to your PC, or just download it directly, which in the MPAA's eyes, means that it'll be that much easier for everyone to become the pirate that they naturally are.
Re:Split Personality (Score:2)
Is this the same Sony? (Score:2)
that shat upon Aibo owners and hackers when they tried to exchange info on how to do new/cool stuff with their hardware?
Hmmph... I can already hear their CEO addressing the division heads:
"What we've got here is... a failure to communicate!"
Re:Is this the same Sony? (Score:2)
Sony has since changed their stance [wcsr.com] on the aibo hacking [aibohack.com]. Besides, it is a misunderstanding of Sony's corporate culture to speak of them as one entity. Sony is a very large company which is run as seperate business units acting as self-contained businesses with unique goals. This results sometimes in situations like others have pointed out in this and other articles where one part of Sony is doing something which seems to violate the spirit of what another part of Sony is doing. The Playstation project w
Need a better Babelfish... (Score:2)
Re:Need a better Babelfish... (Score:3, Informative)
The SONY marketing corporation, hard disk drive (the or less HDD) with the digital recorder ' NDR-XR1 which loads the DVD recorder ' and, 5.1chcDvd foam/home theater system ' NAV-E900 ' of HDD built-in type ' NAV-E600 ' sells the total 3 type as a brand of the foam/home AV gateway equipment which corresponds to broadband network environment.
Both machines are defeated, by various functions due to the regular connection to broadban
Translation? (Score:2)
Re:Translation? (Score:2)
The knitting machine is the digital recorder which loads the connected function to broadband network the HDD and the DVD of the 80GB - the RW
For what it is worth I can read most of this, but not to a level that I could post here, but it does seem like a cool piece of Equipment.
As to things like copyright, the Japanese are quite lax about it, or were when i was working there. It is the only place in the world
Re:Translation? (Score:2)
Not for copyright theft but it's a lot better than video rental shops so I treat the CD/DVD section as a try before you buy deal. It's a cheap and easy way to try new music .
Similar to other products (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Similar to other products (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, odds are, the Sony unit is a Tivo as well.
The tivo/toshiba unit can't write to DVDs though. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Similar to other products (Score:2, Informative)
The big difference is that the Panasonic product works like an old-fashioned VHS deck and requires you to type recording details in, rather than the Tivo's programme guide method.
So you're not paying a subscription, but you don't get the guide stuff; which is better I'll leave to you.
Reading about them is such a tease (Score:2)
Unfortunately it appears that TEAC attempted to create an Australian model that was a dismal failure, and nobody else has had the ambition to have another go.
Perhaps making my own would be the best option. 80 Gigs isn't heaps, especially considering the much better quality television broadcast signals compared to the US, that needs to be compressed
Re:Reading about them is such a tease (Score:3, Interesting)
...but writes DVD and is more expensive (Score:2)
Expect some $1,500 in the USA
Hmmm (Score:2, Insightful)
Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Except the whole point of this machine is *ease of use*. Record TV shows and save them to DVD. What could be easier. Now if the machine allowed to cut out commericials on the machine itself, that would be cool
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
And with dvd blanks being expensive, why reburn to lower quality.. Of course, if your gonna share, edited SVCD or Divx will work nicely.
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Why record twice, im sure dvd's players with 30 second skip will be out. :) Gotta come up with some new features to make you buy new DVD players.
You are probably right, but honestly the whole deal of fast forwarding or skipping forward 30 seconds is just a band-aid. If you don't want to watch the commercials, you edit them out cleanly, and then you get no commercials at all. This is also a good reason to buy your favorite shows on DVD. I have seen a number of shows where the currently running show is
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Also, you mention the TurboNet card. Is the same possible using a USB network card on a series 2 tivo?
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Being in the UK (we only have series 1 units) I don't know much about the series 2, but from what I hear they're much harder to hack in general. But if you can run tivoweb on it, then you can probably run tytools.
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Insanity of advertising. (Score:3, Interesting)
The same kind who shut down websites for containing video clips of commercials.
It was one of the dumbest things I have ever heard, when a few years ago a website (can't remember the name) was SHUT DOWN for containing copyrighted material. It was a website of funny/interesting/nostalgic commercials. How stupid could advertisers be, to shut down a website that did their job for them. It's all about control. Insanity.
Re:Insanity of advertising. (Score:2, Interesting)
I do understand why advertisers didn't rescue it, effective advertising doesn't need to entertain you, it needs to pound something into your skull over and over again (I bet you are not entertained by the never ending Subway Jared ads but I bet you know his story and now equate Subway with healthier food). A lot of the ads on Adcritic were entertaining and you can remember the ads but can you remember what the product being advertised was
Re:Insanity of advertising. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Insanity of advertising. (Score:3, Informative)
It has since re-opened, but it's now a pay-your-own-way site.
Just search Google for Adcritic and shutdown if you want more info.
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:2)
Lots of companies won't like this - many commercials are time sensitive and meant to be a part of a larger ad campain. Some companies (Coca-Cola, Nike, etc) might be interested in building long-term brand awareness, but for most this is a losing proposition, especially if people FF over the commercials on the DVD.
Re:Piss Off Hollywood? (Score:3, Insightful)
Most or all of them. A commercial from 6 months ago is quite probably not relevant anymore. Different campaign, colors, price, maybe even product name.
And if a product goes horribly wrong (e.g. Firestone tires), then they DEFINATELY do not want that ad out there being seen again and again. They'd rather we forget all about that little faux pas.
Not quite my dream machine (Score:2)
Sony is a Tivo licensee (Score:5, Interesting)
I own two Tivo boxes, and wouldn't give them up for anything. Unless I see something better, of course...
Re:Sony is a Tivo licensee (Score:2)
Tivo does not subsidize hardware.. (Score:5, Informative)
"With the Series2, we're out of the subsidy business," Ramsay said.
That's TiVo Chief Executive Mike Ramsay as quoted at news.com [com.com]
Re:Sony is a Tivo licensee (Score:2)
Actually, they may have. Tivo holds 20-odd patents covering many aspects of its DVR technology... see this [uspto.gov], this [uspto.gov] and this [uspto.gov], for example. They've tried to enforce them [com.com], too.
And what Tivo hasn't patented, SonicBlue/Replay probably has [internet.com]. Granted, SonicBlue won't exist [slashdot.org] much longer, but someone is bound to buy the patent rights, and they'll probably try to enforce the
Re:Sony is a Tivo licensee (Score:2)
SonicBlue and Tivo had a patent lawsuit fight a year or two ago, and the two parties settled with each other for undisclosed terms. It wouldn't at all surprise me if both companies licensed patents from each other.
I should hope that neither tivo nor sonicblue was able to patent recording tv broadcast to a hard drive. It's been done before either, IIRC.
There's a lot more
Nifty... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nifty... (Score:2)
Re:Nifty... (Score:5, Informative)
freevo is the lowest processor/ram hungry of all the free-pvr projects.
cheapest Computer that can do it as good as a Tivo is a Athalon 1800+ with 256 meg of ram. The mobo,processor,fan,case,powersupply in super cheap form (I.E. really crappy and ugly case) is around $400.00 now you need a video card that can handle tv out correctly... $50.00-$100.00 WinTV-D card to do the HDTV you mention $200.00 Pioneer A05 (anything else is utter crap for DVD burning) $250.00 Hard drive $150.00 - $300.00 depending on size/speed/quality.
now how about an IR remote? $30.00 for a ir reciever or build it yourself for $15.00 in parts and a good knowlege of electronics.
$1000.00 is the actual REAL price for a working freevo box done in economy mode. More if you buy a real AV case that looks like a stereo component.. MythTV requires a XP2600+ to do the same job because it requires X and really is no competition for freevo right now.
so you are off by a large amount because you left out most of the hardware needed. and you STILL need to hack together lots of pre-alpha software to get it to work.
Re:Nifty... (Score:2, Interesting)
Im suspicious (Score:2, Insightful)
*shifty eyes*
Compression... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Compression... (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Sit nicely (and quietly) in your tv stand/entertainment center.
2. Be used by somebody other than a CS graduate
3. Work properly out of the box
4. Remote control without buying extra hardware and programming
5. Be used without having a monitor/keyboard/mouse attached.
Consumers will simply not put up with those inconveniences for something like this. Somet
Re:Compression... (Score:2)
Sony Tivo (Score:4, Informative)
Adding a DVD burner is definitely a cool addition.
Why wait, when Panasonic are already there? (Score:5, Informative)
Progressive-Scan DVD Video Recorder with 40GB Hard Disk & Time Slip Playback records to DVD-RAM and DVD-R discs
MSRP $999.95 "
Straight from the relevant page of the Panasonic site (which I'm having problems giving a direct link to, sorry).
The drive is only 40Gb in this case, but thats easily enough if you're backing up to DVD regularly.
Re:Why wait, when Panasonic are already there? (Score:2, Informative)
here.
Re:Why wait, when Panasonic are already there? (Score:2)
At around $300-$400 I would gladly trade a VCR for a DVD-R solution (no HD needed as I have TiVo as my primary recording source), but as they are now they only work as archival devices instead of true replacements.
Boo.
Re:Why wait, when Panasonic are already there? (Score:2)
But why don't they support DVD-RW?
Yes, this may actually be "it". (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm using the Panasonic DMR-HS2, which has a 40 gig drive. Very nice, but programming it's a pain - either manually program it or use VCRPlus+ codes. A TiVo-like program guide would be the cat's meow. The catch is that for $1000+, should it come with a "lifetime subscription" ala ReplayTV, or are you going to have to pay each month? This is not a trivial issue - the boards dedicated to these DVD-Recorders mention it frequently.
Three other things:
1) Cable Blaster - if you have a cable box, you have to program your box to change channels, and the DVD-Recorder to record. A Cable Blaster/Cable Mouse (i.e. something to change channels) really is a necessity.
2) CPRM is supported on these things. The television transmission can have a "No Copy" bit set, and these DVD-Recorders will obey. So, for now, MythTV may still be superior.
3) How long before DVD-R drives become cheap enough for them to be included in some kind of Tivo? A big reason for owning these is to make it _easy_ to burn to DVD. Yes, you can use stuff like DVArchive to download to your computer. Then you transcode. Then burn to DVD. This is all one step, and the reason I have one - it's simple. Granted, I'd rather make SVCDs of some of them, rather than a DVD, but I'll cope.
Worthless.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Worthless.... (Score:2)
And you came to this conclusion how? You certainly didn't own either device, or you would've realized that if your Time Warner set-top box is one of the few that isn't supported via direct serial connection to the Tivo/ReplayTV, an IR blaster is included with each device and will support any STB that has an IR remote.
Re:Worthless.... (Score:2)
I put in a splitter, so the cable feed goes into the TV as well, so I can watch one (analog) channel, while TiVo records programming from the cable box (analog, digital, premium, it doesn't matter).
Eventually, there will be standards for Digital Cable (didn't they just get approved?), so that future consumer electronics boxes can "tune" the
Cost, media, Tivo (Score:4, Insightful)
It's also not clear what writable format they're using -- + or - or all of them. I'm mildly biased in favor of the - format because it seems to be the most compatible where I've tried it.
As far as a Tivo replacement, I'm not sure I see that. Tivo is pretty far down the pike in terms of scheduling, selection, conflict avoidance and user interface. I don't think this Sony unit is meant to be that, but instead as a VCR on steriods.
I'm personally waiting for the DVD writer decks to drop in the $300-400 range. I have a Tivo, so I don't need an extra source of guide data. The internal HDD is nice for basic editing (from what I understand of the Panasonic DMR-HS2 unit that has one), but its a big added cost as well. I could live with just the writer. I'd hope they'd drop to sub-$500 this year, perhaps closer to Christmas, but maybe the economy/war/malaise will make us wait even longer.
Re:Cost, media, Tivo (Score:2)
Re:Cost, media, Tivo (Score:2)
(e50 something) with a MSRP of $449, (maybe less on fleabay).
The current model still has a MSRP of $699, but many retailers are discounting it to $499 right now.
How Bodes Sony TiVO? (Score:2)
Isn't this open source? (Score:2)
The important question has to be ... (Score:2)
How much on a DVD? (Score:2)
Re:How much on a DVD? (Score:2)
Apex. (Score:2, Insightful)
Expensive! (Score:2, Informative)
Nice if you can afford it I suppose. I wonder if there will be restrictions on exporting it to the US.
Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:3, Interesting)
VCD/SVCD would make much more sense... since VCD is VHS quality and SVCD is (supposedly) about the same quality as NTSC is capable of carrying... AND you can play them back in (almost) any DVD player.
Not to mention the fact that it would be MUCH cheaper.
I'd love to have a VCD/SVCD recorder.
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:2)
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:2)
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:2)
While the cost/MB is about the same, I see a distinct advantage in the smaller size.
It's easier to give a recording to my sister when it's the only recording on the disk... rather than giving her 5+ hours of recordings (by the storage ratio listed in the article).
That, and CD burners are drastically cheaper than DVD burners.
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:3, Informative)
It is also very untrue that "(almost) any DVD player" can play VCD/SVCD format discs. No one I know owns a DVD player that can play VCDs, yet everyone I know has a DVD player (or a PS2/XBox) that can play DVDs just fine.
I've gone down both roads and DVD is
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:2)
Most Apex's do, even the $60 bottom of the Walmart line. And I have a low end Panasonic surround sound 5 disc setup that does as well. Most VCD's anyway. I've had a few that won't play.
Re:Burn broadcast to DVD? (Score:2)
Calculate storage capacity (Score:2, Funny)
It's about 4 LOC (Library of Congress) although if you need to be more exact, you could say that it's 4 LOC, and then round to the nearest Volkswagon
*DUCKS*
Re:Calculate storage capacity (Score:2)
arrrr me maties (Score:2)
Where's The WiFi Support? (Score:2)
I would be careful about the DRM (Score:2)
Does it use TiVo software? (Score:2)
And from looking at those pictures, it looks to me like this thing doesn't use TiVo software. Not that I think TiVo software is currently, and will forever be inherently better than any software. It's just that it has such excellent search features. The PVR component of this device simply won't be that good without effective
My Home Built PVR that shreds these (Score:2)
Built from parts:
G4 450
Desktop-style G3 case painted black w/ silver trim
768 MB RAM
120 + 80 GB drives (coming soon - currently only 80 and 12)
32 MB Radeon Dual-Head Graphics (drives a 27" TV and a 14" VGA 800x600 mirrored or separate display at the 'control center' of the couch)
DVD-RW
External CD-RW
Mac OS X (incl. all the goodness of a full install of X)
EyeTV
VLC (for VideoCDs, DivX, etc)
Remote Control via Keyspan
Wacom Tablet
Best freakin' PV
I'm not surprised - American TV is rubbish (Score:5, Insightful)
I went on holiday for 10 days - in the, granted, limited time I saw telly I couldn't get over the fact that (compared to the UK) advertising is literally rammed down your throat.
Almost everything is sponsored by someone, you have advert breaks with unnerving frequency (often just cutting out in the middle of the tension without any thought to picking a bit where it would make sense) and you even have adverts just after the starting credits and just before the ending credits (I mean, whats the point of sticking some adverts up - only to come back to the credits, and then more adverts??).
Finally, I was watching some ice hockey and even the player stats screen was littered with 3 adverts! Amazing.
So, in short, I'm not really surprised that Tivo took off over there and badly here. Yes, we have adverts - but they're appproximately once every 15 minutes, cut out at appropriate sections of the programme or film and aren't put so close to the beginning or end of items that it annoys the viewers.
BUT, and it's a big but - Sony are very pro-DRM. Their Net-MD line would be great if it wasn't so crippled and last month I went to buy a CD/MP3 player only to find that whilst their top of the range product was very very cool, you couldn't fast forward or rewind through MP3's. I fail to believe that this is due to technical problems - more the fact that they want it to be so slightly inconveniant that you give up using MP3's.
PVR with Ethernet? (Score:2)
Any suggestions would be helpful.
Re:DVD Recording (Score:3, Informative)
Here [30below.com]is a informative link on using a dvd-writer with your TIVO...
Re:DVD Recording (Score:3, Informative)
You can still get a S1 TiVo on eBay if that's what you want. But you won't get any future software upgrades (
Re:DVD Recording (Score:3, Informative)
Re:DVD Recording (Score:2)
So to answer your question, yes, it's doable, but it's currently a tedious and ugly process--
Re:Media type (Score:2)
DVD-R/RW
To record TV shows of course. (Score:3, Interesting)
Although it would be nice to buy a DVD of the series and help support the actors and such - often there is no way to buy any kind of tape of a series.
Even apart from the series, I'm sure there are many people that would record other weird stuff from TV.. myself, I'd collect commercials I like.
Re:To record TV shows of course. (Score:2)
Re:Why would you want this, if not to pirate movie (Score:2, Interesting)
1. For all the Trekkies out there, start recording a season for your own personal use, DVD's will keep better than VHS. It's being broadcasted, we're paying for it through the products we buy. No harm no foul.
2. God knows the Major networks show an made-for-tv movies/specials once and at the very most twice, if you don't get good copy you might never see it again. Example. back in the 80's my brother and I recorded the Kroft puppets (spelling/name may be off, sorry) when the did the "Ronny and Nancy
Re:Note to self (Score:3, Funny)
Re:90 hours my ass... (Score:2)
In order for this thing to record to DVD, the algorithm that it is using is fixed (MPEG2). All you can really do is fiddle around with the bitrates some to vary the quality/size relationship. Unless of course it uses a high quality/low bit compression (DivX, Xvid, etc) and then transcodes on the fly when a disk recording is requested. If you had to transcode and then burn, it would take so long it would suck.
Re:Bah! (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope. At least, not in the near future.
Sony is a company with competing interests. On one hand, the personal electronics division wants to sell compelling, useful electronic devices. On the other, the studio-side of the company jealously guards its entertainment/media content. The content side holds the electronics side in check -- it knows what the market wants (HDTV TiVO, anyone?) but fears cannibalizing Sony's Content/Studio division sales.
There are internal (management) power
Not that expensive (Score:2)
That is, around 600 for the puter + 350 for the ati + 350 for the dvd-r runs to $1300
And this probaly is easier to use, faster and easier to program and has like 6 different inputs and outputs (including showing pictures from memory sticks)