Computers Replace Musicians In West End Musical 411
Albanach writes "The Scotsman newspaper is reporting that despite opposition from the Musician's Union, Sir Cameron Mackintosh will proceed with his plan to replace one half of the musicians in his musical Les Miserables with a computer synthesiser. The Times claims that using Sinfonia will allow the show, the third longest running musical in history, to replace 11 musicians saving 5,000 GBP ($9,450 US) per week. Sinfonia consisits of 2 PCs, one master and one backup, controlled by an trained operator using a musical keyboard."
Someone had to say it (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry
Re:Someone had to say it (Score:5, Informative)
Circa 1997, Sibelius was connected to a grand piano and played a formidably complex Liszt piece to an enraptured audience. God knows how many clever features it has now!
Part of the appeal of the program is that it does not play the notes at the exact time specified by the score but can play in various styles, playing with human-like timing.
Re:Are we at this point yet? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sometimes you DO need to listen to popular culture because it communicates where a society is and what it wants. With millions and millions of people around the world dancing away to hiphop and not classical theartre music, that ought to tell you something.
As for DJ's, as with anything else some are good and others are bad. A good DJ is just as good as the best bass player or violinist.
In favor of Classical Music. (Score:3, Insightful)
Get out of town, dood.
At the end of the day, a good dj picks songs, and a good musician makes them. The difference between DJs and rappers versus good classically trained musicians is the same difference between VB wizard boys and fluent systems programmers.
Both can make entertaining works, but the latter invested more to get more skill, and they need to be taken more seriously because they have earned it.
If you want to see someone be good at making rhymes and picking songs for you, rap is good. But if
Re:In favor of Classical Music. (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, because I'm sure all the DJs out there have no clue how music works. Maybe you should try spinning sometime, and maybe you would how much musical understanding you really need in order to be a good DJ. Not only do you have to know a lot of musical theory in order to make a halfway decent mix that sounds concrete, you also need to be quite good at keeping track of both songs (or in some case 3, or in some case other things like a 404) because you need to be able to figure out the precise place to start mixing the two together.
Tons of people have invested just as much into being a DJ as people who play instruments do. In fact, if you want to look at it in purely financial terms instead of that and time, then I'll bet the DJ spends quite more to get their setup and records.
Your post was insulting to DJs as well as having no valid points at all.
Re:Are we at this point yet? (Score:4, Interesting)
So, what are we in store for in the future. Going to see Synth programmers in concert?
Never been to a chemical brothers concert have ya? :) Im going to be a little hard on you because Im an electronic musician myself, electronic instruments opens up NEW avenues for creativity, you can be just as expressive with a filter sweep or a finely tuned spectral delay but the 99% rule still applies (99% of everything is crap).
As for Les Mis, you're dead on -- I hate Les Mis with a passion (and all the other early 90's "we're so cultred we went to a musical" bullshit pop-musicials -- Phantom of the Opera, and cats to name a few (and I don't care if cats is cool because it uses poetry as narative structure)), but i've seen just about every other musical there is, and going to the theater is about seeing people not about listening to synthesizers. It REALLY cheezes me off when you hear synthesizers used inappropriatley -- if I came to a Les Mis show in t-shirt and shorts wearing a rastafarian hat -- wouldn't that also be inappropriate? :)
rap (Score:5, Insightful)
Rap is a drum machine and a rhyme dictionary in the same way that blues is four chords and a gravelly voice, or jazz is hitting the wrong keys and pretending you did it on purpose, or rock is two power chords and a stage show, or classical is machine-like repetition of a score. There are recordings that fit those descriptions, and before you get used to the form it might all sound like that. There's also a hell of a lot more to it -- but if you don't care to learn, more power to you, it's probably not for you anyway.
If you like rock, or blues, or jazz, or classical, though, you are hereby prohibited from making stupid generalizations about rap.
Re:Wow! That's so... small-minded and ill-informed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wow! That's so... small-minded and ill-informed (Score:3, Insightful)
But let's face it. The Emperor has no clothes. Hip-hop is here today, gone tomorrow. If you were as in touch as you claim to be, you would notice that hip-hop artists have zero staying power. Zero. In fact, there was a special documentory about how fleeting hip-hop artists are. You say they become public figures, and idols in their communities. Yet that only lasts about a year, perhaps more. T
Re:Are we at this point yet? (Score:3, Interesting)
As for music sounding dated, I've got mix cd with Yaz tracks right next to new Drum n Bass tracks. also, That dated sound is still sought out by some new bands, too (look at all the retro-electro, like Miss Kitten and the Hacker and Adult. ).
P.S.- that sounds like an AWESOME concert!
Here's One Positive (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Here's One Positive (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Here's One Positive (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Here's One Positive (Score:3, Insightful)
Well hell, its not like there isn't room for any of those musicians to learn the Sinfonia and get what is likely a higher paying gig than they were getting. If you don't think other musicals aren't going to follow s
Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
What is the point in going to see live, but fake, music?
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
1. La Cage A Follies
2. Gypsy
3. Anyonw Can Whistle
4. Peter Pan
5. Scruge
6. Sunday in the park with George
7. Jekyl and Hyde.
I can say without a doubt that I can and will be able to tell the difference. I can also say with 100% assurance that I am not th only one who can tell te difference.
This is actually a rather interesting development. And I must add a few points.
1. Musicians are underpaid in general. The musicals I've done usually barely paid for gas. But then again, no one gets paid in this group, even though the group is very good. (One of the best in the state.)
2. Poorer groups may not be able to afford musicians. I know this one wouldn't, it there weren't enough musicians in the town willing to do the gig for peanuts, and *able*
3. Thus in these cases, there may be an excuse for doing "taped" runs, or better, what this article is suggesting.
4. In Jekyl and Hyde, we used a really good yamaha keyboard to cover all the uncoverable parts (ie, cello and some harpsicord and chimes parts, etc.) This was mostly due to space concerns, but MAN-O MAN; patches have came a Long way in the last 5 years.
Still, this makes me cringe that groups who CAN pay for good musicians aren't willing to anymore. To me, for a group that is in that situation, it is a cop out of sorts. It takes away one of the dangers of things falling apart. It brings the group back from that edge, and locks it into the one keyboard jocky and the computer.
Call me a nut, but some of the best moments I've ever felt in music were when things weren't going 100% the way they were rehersed. The combined human factor of 10 pit musicians relizing that Mr. Hyde was going crazy with his stuff tonight made something come alive.
I would feel bad not allowing moments like that to go to the audience.
Next up: record the whole damn thing and play it on a big screen. Oh, wait.. Ooops. Thats a movie.
Let's face it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Call me a nut, but some of the best moments I've ever felt in music were when things weren't going 100% the way they were rehersed. The combined human factor of 10 pit musicians relizing that Mr. Hyde was going crazy with his stuff tonight made something come alive.
Now call me a nut, but unless you're really into a specific show (like, go see it multiple times) you won't notice if it's a bit of
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Actally... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless someone's done something interesting with arrangements, the musicians playing the score for Les Mis have very little to no creative input in the music they're producing. They play what's on the score, and there's very little interaction between the cast and orchestra in a typical concert hall.
The fact that large chunks of this production of Les Mis can be played by synths tends to suggest that either the arrangements are either very straightforward or that they're particularly avant garde (i.e. it might actually be tough to find/afford musicians who can do them justice). The simple fact is (and I've been a muso in a past life so I'm gonna get beaten up if any of several people read this!) that the synths are probably *better* able to deliver the musical background that the director wants to achieve. They don't make mistakes, they don't break up with their partners just before the show, and they won't get better offers elsewhere.
Bottom line: people don't go to Les Mis to hear the orchestra play, and probably very few of them know or care whether "real" musicians are playing. They go because they think it's a good story and/or to see specific actors and/or because the director may have done something interesting with it.
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Insightful)
Imho, good musicians will play the music very well and will also interpret the music - that means that the score is just a guide really. An example would be to listen to a good orchestra play the pink panther and then listen to a basic orchestra that just plays the notes, without interpretation or feeling. It just sounds
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Informative)
Second, the people who design these computerized scores and arrangements are musicians, too, very capable of making interpretive/expressive music.
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Insightful)
Plays, includuing musicals, are not the same as movies, and new arrangements of the story, changed dialogue, different emphesis are not only expected between one cast and another, but also happen during the production run. In musicals,
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Informative)
It is true that good musicians sound much better than a machine just reading notes off a sheet. However, Sinfonia _is_ fed with good interpretations played by good musicians. The same interpretations will be used in every show, while a real musician's performance would vary. But who's going to complain about that?
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:2, Interesting)
The thing that concerns me isn't the lack of musicians (even though I'm a musician myself.) It's the non-live soun
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this different from a symphony concert? Everyone's playing what's on the stand in front of them, with little to no creative input.
The difference is in the performance itself - the performances are a little different from night to night, and a full orchestra that's paying attention to what's happening onstage will be able to compensate seamlessly with any differences in the show from night to night (dropped line, missed coda, etc.) Up until about two years ago, I had regularly performed in a pit orchestra for about 15 years, and it *does* make a difference. It's even more of a difference for something like "Les Mis", where the music is such an integral part of the show.
Knowing that a show was sequenced/synthesized would definitely temper my enthusiasm at seeing it.
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Informative)
Yes...
>with little to no creative input.
Wrong. Music notation is an abstraction of the notes and timing that the composer wants the performer to play, but it isn't complete. The conductor and performers read a lot into it. Some music is written without ornamentation, but with the understanding that the performer will add it themselves. Other music is written with the intention that all the notes are predefined, but with the knowledge that a performer is going to add timing, vibratto, attack, and velocity nuances to the music when it's performed. Just because modern music notation has symbols for all sorts of performance details doesn't mean that the written music actually employs all of that. There's an assumption that the performer can look at the music and know how to bring it to life.
Compare that to a sampler or synth. Those are just going to play the notes exactly as written, and it won't even sound as good as a robot playing the actual instrument because the sound is spliced together from single-note samples. You can sample multiple notes and add performance rules such as when to use rubato, but that's only as good as the person who wrote the software. Maybe someday with enough CPU power, samples will be replaced with acoustical models of real instruments and motion-capture of world-class performers, but we're not there yet (and those top-class performers would be stupid to do that anyway).
Being a performing musician is more than just being able to play the notes as written with no mistakes.
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno. I think a lot of this is grubby theater producers wanting to get all the money they can. So, musicians are the first thing to get cut.
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:5, Insightful)
> very little to no creative input in the music they're producing. They play what's on the score, and there's very little interaction
> between the cast and orchestra in a typical concert hall.
I'd hate to be in any of the shows YOU'VE been in. In the shows I perform in, there is plenty of interaction between cast and orchestra. Mediated, of course, through the CONDUCTOR. That's what he's there for. And the conductor is supposed to pick up the vibe from the audience, and will if he's any good, which adds a third party into the mix.
As soon as you add a synth playing six parts at once, then your tempos can't vary, you can't easily alter dynamics from night to night (unless you want to alter them all in exactly the same way, which is a bad idea), and basically you end up with a much inferior performance. But since people don't actually know what a stage show should look like these days anyway, nobody misses anything. And hey, if people will pay just as much for an inferior performance that costs less to produce, then that's what they'll get.
-fred
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Insightful)
RTFA. In fact, the tempos and dynamics can vary. The conductor can skip or repeat verses, add ritards or rallantandos, and the system follows along [rms.biz]. This thing is NOT a dumb MIDI sequencer that plays to a click-track.
You can argue over the morals of replacing half a pit orchestra with computers, but 99% of the audience won't be able to separate the live instruments from the synthesized/sampled ones.
As for whether it will
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Interesting)
SoupIsGood Food
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:2)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Insightful)
Would be more interesting to go to one of those jazz/music improvisational stuff. Or stand up comics, or something like the "Whose line is it anyway" show.
With the typical musical sort of show, the musicians and actors are expect
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Interesting)
The fact is that theatre companies can't all afford to hire and orchestra and pay for rehearsal space.
Defeat's whose purpose? (Score:3, Interesting)
What they are trying to do is ape Hollywood movies with explosions and eye popp
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:2)
Re:Defeats the purpose (Score:3, Interesting)
Mackintosh absolutely wants automation to rigidly reproduce his vision. Have you seen Les Miserable or Phantom of the Opera? It's all about automation!
Mackintosh wants (and his audiences expect) a slick, uniform, standardized performance that's the same whether it's in the West End, Broadway, or Lubbock, Texas.
No one goes to see a production of Les Miz after all these years hoping it might be some bold new interpretatio
that's too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Just my 0.02$
Re:that's too bad (Score:2)
Re:that's too bad (Score:2, Insightful)
H
Re:that's too bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:that's too bad (Score:2)
Replacing players. (Score:5, Funny)
The actors and set could also be replaced by projecting an image of a pre-recorded performance onto a large screen.
If there was a way to distribute this recording, people could watch it on smaller projection screens at home, and avoid the cost of theatre tickets and the hassle of having to travel to the theatre.
The only hard part would by syncronising the CD player to the projection, but I'm sure someone will come up with a method in the future.
Re:Replacing players. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think that's how They Might Be Giants got off the ground... they started out just the two of them and a cassette recorder, and it enabled them to do a lot of gigs that a full band couldn't. They'd just throw their stuff on the train and go play down in Philly or Baltimore, then take the train back to NY the same night; full bands with drums, amps, and stuff just couldn't play gigs outside the city. At a time when most NY bands were looking for that one score that would persuade the music industry to push them into the public eye, TMBG were able to quietly built an actual following.
I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, some people go to a musical just for the lights, costumes and action... but how many are there? Surely the majority go for the music?
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:3, Insightful)
if it turns out they were just faking it with a CD playing then it IS devalued.
consider your argument in another context: someone scores 100% in a difficult exam. you think they must be very good. then the examiner tells you he was caught cheating, so you don't think he's good any more. then the examiner says he was talking about another guy who got 100%, so you think he's good onc
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:3, Interesting)
As for the exam, that's a bit of a flawed example (or, rather, it is flawed for a person with my approach to music). The important thing i
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:2)
I've never been big on seeing live orchestas (though I've been to a few musicals with live orchestras), but I've see plenty of live music and you get something you don't from a CD. There's something very impressive about seeing a skil
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:3, Insightful)
> concensus of the cultural elite.
This is fine for people who don't know anything about music.
Music changes from performance to performance. One night the audience gets excited at one part of the show... the director speeds everything up a little, brings up the tympani, gets the singers to kick it up a notch. Or maybe he slows things down, stretches out the tension until a
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:2)
Well, for me, I guess so, as I didn't quite get the scandal. Their music sucked, so I didn't really care if the people on stage were the ones singing or not. And for the rest of the bands I like: I'd probably just be mighty amused to find out that the musicians playing aren't the ones up on stage.
Besides which, disliking a musician because the person who appears in a music video isn't the real singer is patently stupid (patent pending). Unless you're a teeny-bopper girl who's into bands becaus
Re:I hope nobody finds out, or they're done for. (Score:2)
Maybe if it happened today, they'd proudly say they outsourced the vocals to India or something.
Wait a minute, nowadays some of these hip-hop and pop stuff seems to have lots of bhangra and Indian influence...
A form of expression? (Score:4, Insightful)
The average West End musical is a form of business. The main art involved is that of making a profit.
What about the other half? (Score:4, Insightful)
If the show is not making enough money then that is because it is past it's "sell-by" date. If it's just to make more money by cutting costs then it's pretty disgusting really. Yeah, he might make more money but how about putting money back into the community of musicians who made LM possible when computerisation was not an option? Guess I'm just an old softie really...
Re:What about the other half? (Score:2)
Re:What about the other half? (Score:2)
Re:What about the other half? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if Sir Cameron Mackintosh has a Macintosh and recently got his copy if iLife '04 and started playing around with GarageBand or something!
Re:What about the other half? (Score:2, Interesting)
Did anyone notice..... (Score:5, Interesting)
How many musicians give up just because they cant survive on these wages?I am appalled.
Par for the course (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically, as an artist, unless you are a really famous poet, lauded painter, sought after comic book artist, best-selling writer, or a pop music star, you are broke.
Re:Did anyone notice..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Exceptions obviously exist, but how often would people fork out cash to go to a play or musical because a particular musician is involved?
Re:Did anyone notice..... (Score:4, Funny)
Well that just sucks.
I am going to have to give up on my reading Slashdot career now.
Re:Did anyone notice..... (Score:2, Informative)
I've spent most of my life practicing, and studying my instrument, easily enough time to have gotten a graduate degree. And I get: waking up in motel rooms, stand
Synths aren't that good yet... (Score:2, Insightful)
Can they recreate the sound perfectly? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm also pretty sure that a musician playing the actual instrument can change more parameters than you can change on a synthesizer simulating that.
Even if you had a perfect recording of sound you wouldn't have the same radiation pattern from your speake
Well, I was going to say... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I was working in the theatre when the first automated lighting desks appeared and a skillfull operator could always adapt or delay when changing to the next "scene".
Having said that, lighting is secondary to the performance compared with the music - jumping around the place would be kind of stupid. How do they cope with non-scripted events?
I'm also of the opinion that we pay pretty high ticket prices to see a "live" performance - both for the actors and the musicians - I think I'd feel ripped off knowing that it was a computer orchestra..
Re:Well, I was going to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
The Sinfonia site [rms.biz] mentions that the operator can alter how it plays the music, presumably by skipping back by a few bars. Anyhow, as I mention in my comment further down, such slipups are very rare in a long-running professional production.
Having said that, last time I went to see Les Mis, with full orchestra, it was actually fairly poor musically. So maybe that'll improve, who knows.
Ticket Price better be cheaper (Score:4, Insightful)
I would gladly spend "full" price to see a performance which was originally meant to be done by machines. But if the spirit of a performance is changed solely to cut costs, the savings should be passed along to me, or I'd rather spend my money on the real thing.
Re:Ticket Price better be cheaper (Score:2)
If so, maybe this was the only way they could afford to stage the show at all.
Re:Ticket Price better be cheaper (Score:3, Insightful)
As the article says, it wasn't directly to cut costs, it was because they're moving to a smaller theatre where the pit can only accommodate twelve or so musicians. I'm guessing they're moving to a smaller venue because of falling audience numbers, so that is probably a factor. But if it's a case of using a computerised orchestra or the show going bankrupt, which would you choose?
This battle already fought in New York (Score:5, Informative)
Anti-synthesizer advocacy site. [savelivebroadway.com]
Sinfonia article. [sltrib.com]
Settlement story. [ccchronicle.com]
Re:This battle already fought in New York (Score:2)
So, what laws says about conflicts between unions?
Well, knowing unions I can say they will unite soon, and the battle will be over. The music producer will have to hire either alive musicians from the union, or the software from the same union.
Everyone's happy. Problem's solved.
Good for more than this is bad for (Score:2, Interesting)
It is said that these individuals have lost these particular jobs, but what about what others have gained? The producers of this show will save money, which means they'll have more disposable income to spend on other things they want (m
The Customer DOES Mind (Score:2)
Re:The Customer DOES Mind (Score:2)
Re:The Customer DOES Mind (Score:2)
That's it buddy - I'm calling the RIAA!
The simple fact is - most people would rather hear music played "perfectly" and look at the pretty pictures, than listen to the mistakes that real musos make.
Re: But it's art (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because it is art doesn't mean that we as a society have to accept it -- the only things that really move forward are ones that can profit for the producer -- and profit does
not a lot of savings (Score:3, Interesting)
Read the article - small pit! (Score:5, Informative)
The producer's viewpoint is that people who go to see Les Mis want to hear the full Les Mis sound, so he's using recorded music to fill in the for the people that the pit doesn't hold.
Re:Read the article - small pit! (Score:2)
This BBC article [bbc.co.uk] is from a few weeks ago, and describes the negotiations before the issue was settled.
I do see a point to doing this (Score:2)
Re:I do see a point to doing this (Score:2)
Well.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Mackintosh says he's been forced to do this by moving to the smaller theatre because the pit can only accommodate 11 musicians. Where exactly does the Musicians' Union want to put the rest of the orchestra? Suspend them from the ceiling?
Reading the rather limited blurb [rms.biz] about the Sinfonia on the manufacturer's site, it's not like the orchestra or conductor is playing to a click-track or anything, the Sinfonia is operated by someone, presumably playing along to a piano part or some other lead part under the control of the conductor, then the synths on it follow that. Which means the conductor still has overall control of the orchestra, and it seems that the Sinfonia operator can even repeat bars or whatever, in response to what's happening on stage (although in a professional musical, an actor forgetting their line is somewhat unlikely, those things run like clockwork).
Yes, there's no substitute for live musicians, but if it's a case between the show going ahead or not (such as this case [rms.biz] on RMS's site), then the answer is obvious to me. It's rather amusing that the musicians' unions are worried, they should be comforted in the knowledge that they can do better than a synth. Indeed, RMS claim that the Sinfonia can free up room for more live musicians by reducing the need for seperate synth players.
Still, I'd like to have a play with it before I'm fully convinced :).
Actual user experience (Score:2)
These guys must dress in rags (Score:2)
That works out to $454.54 per week per musician.
I can assure you that these guys aren't living a rockstar life.
Perhaps the musicians will feel rewarded by the irony of the situation?
This does work (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're listening, you'll notice that much of TV and movie music is already computerized (often with one or two real woodwinds or a real guitar, which gives it enough life to satisfy nearly anyone).
And, although the tradition of theater is for live music, our musical environments and tastes are constantly being shaped by techno, hip-hop, and even rock that relies upon computerized beats aesthetically (intentionally, to create non-human sounding grooves etc.), so many people like what they hear.
I remember being surprised reading Miles Davis' Autobiography, where he talks about making the switch to a drum machine for his records (in the 1980's). He basically said that it was easier, sounded great, and the time was better. He was convincing.
Now, in terms of putting musicians out of work, and creating a culture where most musicians don't have a chance to learn to be great by playing in bars, cafes, and pit orchestras (even Stravinsky did this in Paris), instead giving us a stream of good musicians who can't interact with a crowd or good-looking performers with shallow musical abilities? That's another, and much sadder, story.
In Other News.. (Score:5, Funny)
Musicians and the Technology Revolution (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Musicians and the Technology Revolution (Score:3, Interesting)
Americans are used to hearing their music generated by amps & speakers. Maybe I can tell the difference and appreciate a real orchestra, but they can't. I'm happy that I can actually write and produce a score for a live production that will run for weeks. That was impossible with the cost of an orchestra.
Not so bad (Score:5, Funny)
Lost Respect (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess I won't be seeing/hearing les mis anymore.
I say this as a computer geek, and a drummer.
I go to hear EVERYTHING! (Score:3, Insightful)
Les Miserables is a musical, not a play. The music is vital for setting the mood of the piece. Each character has his or her own motif which lets gives you insight into the characters. For Wagner, this was almost more important for character development than the libretto (lyrics) itself. When I go to a musical, I pay for the best seats so I can sit close to the pit. I want to see the conductor carefully watching the actors on stage and communicating with the musicians so that everything stays together. It is truly an amazing thing to see a large group of people perform together in sync.
When I was in high school, I got to see a touring company of Les Miserables. One of the parts I looked forward to seeing the most was after the barricades fall and Jean Valjean looks through the bodies for Marius. There is a huge oboe solo that plays the melody to Jean Valjean's song, "Bring Him Home." This music conveys to the audience that although Jean Valjean knows he will lose his daughter to Marius by saving him, he knows that is what he should do. As an oboe student, I listened carefully how the musician interpreted the solo. It was a rare opportunity for me to get to hear someone else besides my teachers, and a machine simply would not have been the same.
Once in college as a music major, I got to experience the musicians' union's pettiness. Many times we had to sit in rehearsal for several minutes not allowed to rehearse because our morning rehearsal had gone over several minutes and the union members' lunch break had to be exactly sixty minutes. However when it came time to play, people would get over their egos and make music. (Musicians have always been difficult to deal with - Bach stabbed a bassoonist and Handel tried to throw a soprano out a window!).
Next month, my elementary school music students are going to get a great opportunity. The Nashville Opera company is travelling to our rural mining town and performing The Barber of Seville. The school had a choice whether to watch the performance on a live internet broadcast or have a scaled down version of the opera travel to the school. We chose to have the opera come to the school because seeing it live will engage the students better and just be more exciting for them. The children are prettty pumped about it, too.
It saddens me to think that Les Mis has to move to a smaller theater because of declining ticket sales. Perhaps it would be better to let it close with a little dignity instead of letting go on forever like Cats. But Cameron Macintosh was responsible for Cats lingering on forever too!
As a theatre professional... (Score:5, Insightful)
Les Miserables has to move out of its current theater because of renovations, and the theater they're moving into is the only one currently available. But, as it's quite a bit smaller, there's not enough room for the orchestra. But I find it odd, then, that the stage is big enough for the show (which, itself, is quite big) or the cast (which is also quite big), but the pit isn't big enough for the orchestra. And, of course, by ripping out a row or two of seats, the orchestra pit could easily be expanded. But no one wants to do that, because it would cut into the profits. The easiest thing to do for audiences who mostly don't know or care about the difference between virtual music and live music is to replace musicians. But at what point does reducing Les Miserables or any show make it no longer the same show? At a certain point during the Broadway run of the show, they just cut 15 minutes out of it to get it to run under three hours so they would have to stop paying the cast overtime. But the ticket prices, of course, didn't go down. Rest assured that audiences paying to see Les Miserables in London will not be paying less for fewer live musicians. The difference will go right into Cameron Mackintosh's pocket, as is always the case.
Personally, I think when it comes time to start cheating the audience out of the full experience of the show, as in either the current London case or the Broadway one I mentioned above, it might be best to just close the show and move on. But that's speaking from an audience member's perspective--from the perspective of someone who is something of an industry insider, sure, take the customers who don't know the difference for as much money as you can. The ones who do know the difference probably have already seen Les Miserables one or more times and have no desire to go back to see a reduced version of the show.
It really is different (Score:5, Insightful)
Les Mis is not a play, it is a musical. In fact, there is little to no spoken word in Les Mis making it almost an opera, which would make the music quite important.
Many people seem to think that if all the musicians are doing is playing from the score, then a machine may as well be doing it. To me, that's like saying, "if all the actors are doing is reading from the script, then we may as well replace them with robots." The fact is, despite the mess of markings that is a classical score, there are many more things not on that page that musicians are expected to fill in. There is a passion and subtlety of emotion, expression, articualtion, and sound that no machine can reproduce.
As a classicaly trained musician soon to graduate with my Master's in performance, I may be a bit biased, but the majority of my training hinges on those very points. Playing the music on the page is a given, you just have to be able to do at least that. What gets you a job and makes the music worth listening to, is doing more than what's on the page.
Now admittedly, that's hard to do for a show that's been running for so long. Many people have pointed out the business end of this decission. So, lets look at this from a business point of view...If the market demand for performance of this show no longer supports it being preformed in a space big enough, then the market has no more need for this show. Maybe it's time to learn a new show.
I think that all adds up to about $.04. Thanks for reading
Why. (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a musician's union for the West End. Union rules specifically state how many musicians need to be hired for any musical specifically to STOP this from happening, ie, to keep Broadway musicians employed. Believe me, if they could get away with it, pit bands would've been replaced by a CD player a long, long time ago. Broadway is exactly the same way.
McIntosh wants to replace half the orchestra, not because of artistic reasons per se, but because of practical ones - Les Mis is moving to a theater with a much, much smaller pit that simply can't accompany the number of musicians hired by the current production.
It's ALL business. Don't think art has anything to do with it. THey'd replace the actors with robots if they thought it'd make a buck and save a few more.
Triv
Re:go girl! (Score:2, Insightful)