IT Literacy Test 302
crumley writes "The Educational Testing Service just announced a new
test that is designed to measure information technology literacy. The test is supposed to measure the ability of students to use software to solve problems, and not just how to use particular programs. So has anyone out there taken a test like this? Did it seem to measure critical thinking and problem solving skills?"
2 hours = Useful project? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:2, Funny)
I.e. when you say "click that link", and they ask "which (mouse) button"?, you know you're in trouble...
Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:5, Funny)
(based on personal expieriance).
Re: 2 hours = Useful project? (Score:2)
Yeah that's a dumb question... I would ask "click what link?".
Maybe you were pointing with your finger? Sorry, I couldn't see that, only read your comment.
He who asks is a fool for 5 minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.
Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:2)
Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:2)
If your computer, if you are using firefox, opera, mozilla, konqueror or lynx or safari.
You also have not indicated if middle button is set for tab, and the right button is set for new window for three button mouse, or what the mouse button setting is for a two button mouse, or what meta keys are used for a one button mouse.
Or is this lynx browser
Sorry not enough
Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:3, Funny)
In the class I'm teaching, knowing what "clicking a link" means, will put one at the top of the class. Actually, of the 12 people in the class, I don't think anyone would know how to do that. After 4 weeks, (one hour per) I still have one person that has trouble with how you "left click" with your right hand.
Mod it funny if you like, 'cause "Pathetic" is not an option.
Take the test but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Take the test but... (Score:2, Informative)
Yahoooo! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yahoooo! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yahoooo! (Score:2, Funny)
How about an IT *Design* test? (Score:3, Funny)
It is a shame (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It is a shame (Score:3, Informative)
What's wrong with the standard acronym CLI (Command Line Interface)?
Re:It is a shame (Score:2)
Or (Score:2)
Re:Or-- Licked that test (Score:3, Funny)
Re:It is a shame (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It is a shame (Score:2)
Re:It is a shame (Score:2, Funny)
Gazunteit.
Re:It is a shame (Score:2)
Re:It is a shame (Score:2)
funny thing is ... (Score:5, Funny)
I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea of this test is fundamentally flawed. If you are good at problem solving, you will be good at problem solving in a technology-rich environment or a technology-poor environment equally. Analytical thought and problem solving has been around a lot longer than computers, and the same people that are good at solving problems with computers were good at solving problems with other things before computers.
I've always hated technology tests, because they necessarily favor a particular way of doing things, and show a clear bias to the solutions preferred by whoever came up with the test. My techniques are rarely the "industry standard" techniques, so I often find myself on tech assessment tests choosing the answers I know the test creators think are right, even if in my experience they aren't the best or most efficient way to do things.
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, when I was in college, we had 8 or 9 different "Industry Standards". While most teachers were absolutely convinced that their method was the "Industry Standard", there were a few knowledgable enough to explained the whole thing to us. Mostly when people talk about "Industry Standards", it's manager-speak for "The Way We Do Things Here." So if you don't follow the "Industry Standards", you will not be working for long.
Also keep in mind that "Industry Standards" in the sense that I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with real ISO or QS standards. Those are actual organizations that create a set of standard rules for companies to follow, usually for the safety of workers and quality assurance of products. No, I'm just talking BS manager-speak...
Meta knowledge (Score:3, Interesting)
But you know what the best practices are (or were at the time they became codified in a test). If you are mindful of what the standard way is, you can at least choose it when there is no reason not to do it that way.
Also, when the time comes to make p
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Informative)
This is a test of familiarity with basic office application paradigms -- do you understand how to use the two dimensions in a spreadsheet or the relationship between database fields and data? It has nothing to do with administration (although I've encountered admins who didn't understand either of those things).
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2)
I don't think this is necessarily true. I would rephrase this to say that those that can solve technology-rich problems are as *capable* of solving similarly difficult technology-poor problems, but they may not be as practiced in the technology-poor problem domain. Given that such tests are timed, familiarity can be
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of the IT exams are fact based exams. The CCIE is skills based as are some portions of the RHCE. Never have I even heard of a paper-CCIE or paper-RHCE, because it's not possible to pass unless you can peform the tasks within the exam.
Fact based exams are easy to write, easy to administer, and easy to design supplemental study guides / course schedules / etc. Skills base
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2)
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Funny, my grandpa is an electrical and civil engineer (class of '51), has managed some pretty large projects on his own, and served as a kind of guru to probably half the population of engineers in Rio de Janeiro in the 70's and 80's. However, he has only learned to use MS Word and Excel after extensive coaching, and even today will get stuck if something unexpected happens (like, say, a button disappears from the Excel toolbar). Computer literacy, and especially the UI concepts like what is a menu, toolbar, link, etc, what is drag-and-drop, and some most general notions of OO (in the form of plug-ins and OLE/COM/CORBA/Bonobo) go a long way in allowing people to understand how software usually works.
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've written practice tests for the ETS TOEFL and GRE for about ten years. This year, my publisher is withdrawing from the market for a number of reasons, but a big part of the reason is that the market for ETS products is simply shrinking with the decline of overseas students going to the US. So, when I saw this the first thing that came to mind was --ah, new revenue stream. Good luck.
But the reason I say this "essay test" approach is so right-on-the-money is
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2, Insightful)
If the test is accurate, fair, and relevant
Get a grip. It will weed out the 'tards, nothing more.
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Funny)
I beg your pardon! They prefer to be called "Management".
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2)
The thing that really stuck out was that MBA students were much, much lower than everyone else in analytical.
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Funny)
*cough*
To be fair... (Score:4, Interesting)
Or they cheat better.
Or they have money to spend on preparation classes.
Or they're white.
Either way, the ETS tests can very actively tell admissions counselors which students are the the wealthiest white cheaters who are not totally stupid.
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2, Interesting)
I have worked in several software companies that hired people merely for common religious beliefs or because they had a degree in hand. This could be for physical therapy, perfect candidate for network administration.
The majority of the 'tests' I have taken for jobs are a joke anyway.
Personality tests... anyo
Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:2)
In other news (Score:3, Funny)
Silly Me (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Silly Me (Score:2)
Great (Score:2, Funny)
-- Saturn SL1-WNY -- Propz: GNAA
cant forget the onion (Score:5, Funny)
Now get off my lawn j00 l33t whippersnappers!
and something about an onion on my belt
Here is your test.... (Score:5, Funny)
File Edit View Favorites Tools Help.
What does this mean?
Question 2:
What is that little X thingy in the upper right hand panel?
If you can answer these questions correctly, you're technically competent. If not, you have a bright future as a technology patent examiner.
Re:Here is your test.... (Score:3, Funny)
Question 1:
File Edit View Favorites Tools Help.
What does this mean?
It's means you're in hell.
Question 2:
What is that little X thingy in the upper right hand panel?
For getting rid of Clippy.
Purdue Univ IST Program Entrance Exam (Score:5, Informative)
The entrance exam was a test that determined your ability to think logically and break down the wholes into their parts with appropriate linkages. It included block diagram puzzles and other assorted logic statements and questions. Not a single line of code anywhere in it (that would have defeated the purpose). I took the test, did well, and was hired.
So, these things have been around for quite a while, at least since 1999.
ETS (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, from a psychometrics point of view, which is something I have a more than passing interest in, ETS is incredible. They have data sets that are invaluable, and have done a lot to further the field of testing. Yes, they do make a lot of money, but I can say that they also earn that money.
If you think otherwise, consider it this way--for every test that they publish there are literally thousands of hours of research, testing, and retesting that have been done. Those doing this work need to be paid, and they typically demand fairly generous salaries (IRT analysts aren't that common, and certainly earn their pay).
Now, that said--wait a few years before you spend a ton of money on this one. That time is critical in making absolutely certain that the test really predicts success or ability. In a few years, we'll know.
Re:ETS (Score:2)
I remember the uproar in our county when testing for computer skills in our county government employees started, of course the county used MS Word for word processing, and t
Re:ETS (Score:4, Insightful)
Your points mainly address the amount of effort that goes into these tests. A lot of useless effort is just that- useless effort. An the GRE and SAT and worse than useless, since they arbitrarily make some people appear much better problem-solvers than they are.
It is fairly common knowledge that the SAT and the GRE, the two other tests for which this organization is known, have little to no correlation with the skills that they supoosedly measure. You can google some pages about the debate, but it's pretty one-sided as almost everyone with an opinion is in favor of dropping support for ETS and their tests.
I am about to take the Physics GRE and my practice scores improved from mediocre to far above average in one week of no physics studying. The secret? Don't read the questions: only read the answers. Eliminate the ones that are clearly wrong and without solving the question, you just got the correct answer. I challenge anyone to explain to me how this anything to do with real physics problem skills.
Next up your Hacker test! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Next up your Hacker test! (Score:2)
Re:Next up your Hacker test! (Score:2)
Actually, considering how easy it is to access most of their accounts, it's not a valid test (been there, done that, got the password within the mandatory 3 guesses).
There are other examples... (Score:5, Insightful)
"You come home and flip the switch, but the lights don't come on. Describe in as much detail as you can how you would go about fixing the problem."
Most people I've asked respond with "replace the light bulb." While that might be the problem, I think the first thing you should do is try the switch again. Maybe you didn't flip the switch all the way, or you hit the wrong one.
The point is that it's a problem solving experience - and not just in technology. It doesn't require expertise in Microsoft Word. It doesn't take a techie to know this stuff. You can measure a person's aptitude for logic, problem-solving, etc. without ever testing specific examples of those skills. That's what I really like about that question. Hopefully, the ETS exam will take this perspective when developing such tests.
Re:There are other examples... (Score:5, Funny)
User: I can't print.
Tech: Okay, are you getting an error?
User: No.
Tech: Okay, let me check the queue and see if...
User: I know, I kept trying and trying but it wouldn't print so I called you.
Tech: Cool. Now 50 other people can't print either.
Re:There are other examples... (Score:2)
Re:There are other examples... (Score:3, Insightful)
Interaction Designer: we really need to start designing the UI of this printing system from the very beginning.
Programmer: Don't be silly. That's the purty GUI front-end part. We usually save that for last. Why would you want to do that first?
Interaction Designer: So we can do things like build into the networked printing system stuff that will keep the user aware that their job is still being processed, so that they won't keep hitting Ctrl+P and wo
Re:There are other examples... (Score:2)
First, you'd obviously flip the switch again. If it still doesn't work, the answer depends on several factors. Is that the only switch on the wall? If there are multiple switches (like there are at my house), I'll flip another switch. If that light also fails to come on, I know the light bulb isn't the problem, or at least isn't the only problem. So, I'll look around the neighborhood. If I can't see any other light
Re:There are other examples... (Score:4, Interesting)
What made this an interesting problem was, despite being able to go to the menu and look at, I forget exactly, but Format -> Page or something, and having some options there for changing some things, background color was not an option. So if you are me you dig around on the menu a while.
Then you finally give up and pull up the help and search. Then you find the entry that says: To change the background color, go to Format -> Page and click on the background tab. Then select a new color. You say wtf (quietly) and go back to Format -> Page. There is no background tab. You go back to the help. Yep, that's what they told you to do.
Turns out, by default, some checkbox on the first tab of the page properties dialog disables the tab you need to get to to change the background. Some seemingly completely unrelated checkbox. I got lucky, clicked around and found it. Then changed the background color.
Turns out, I was the only person to have ever successfully completed the task. The purpose of the test was not to see if you could solve the problem. The purpose was to give an unsolvable problem, and watch the proccess you use to try and solve it. I thought that was a much better way to test skills.
Lucky me, I figured out the solution, which so impressed them that I was hired, despite them having already picked someone else for the job (they just hired both of us instead).
Try it yourself, I believe it was whatever version of WordPerfect was out in '98.
Testing... bah! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Testing... bah! (Score:2)
Cisco doesn't test " real world situations in solving real world examples and problems using real Cisco gear"
Cisco tests "real world situations in solving real world examples and problems using real Cisco solutions"
Meaning if you don't do it "their" way, then it isn't correct!
schools and computer literacy (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm the network admin for a school. I've been doing this for seven years and have been teaching computer classes for five. I teach the 7th grade how to do simple programming in LOGO. They learn the concepts of loops, variables, functions, etc. They learn how to take a problem, break it into parts and come up with a program to solve the problem. They also learn a bit of computer history and how to count and do simple math in binary. I believe I'm the only one doing this in my area.
I deal with a number of people in my position in other schools. Without fail, the computer "literacy" classes in those schools is training in Microsoft Office. They're just training kids to use a particular version of a particular product from ONE company. They're not teaching them the concepts behind a modern word processor, they're training them how to click buttons in Word.
When I started this job, I thought education was all about teaching people how to think and solve problems. I was wrong!
I'm fortunate at this job in that I'm pretty much free to use whatever solutions get the job done. 80% of the machines here are Linux based terminals (using LTSP). I'm also fortunate that I won the old teaching concepts vs. training argument with the administration. I'm free to teach the computer literacy class however I wish.
LOGO? (Score:5, Funny)
People are still teaching LOGO? Holy 1982 Batman! Do they use a mouse to move the turtle nowadays?
Re:LOGO? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, people are still teaching LOGO. What's wrong with LOGO?
7th graders (as are most people) are into instant gratification. Using LOGO, I can start with the simple drawing commands. They type a command in and see the result instantly on the screeen. I start off with them having to draw simple shapes command by command. I then show them how to use LOGO's repeat command.
The instant gratification aspect allows me to get them interested in computers and programming. The difference between 1982 and now is that few people in 1982 had computers and many of those that did learned to program them. Most people today see computers as nothing more than another appliance for doing email, shopping and IM and have no interest in learning how the machines work. Most schools certainly don't encourage anything more.
Re:LOGO? (Score:2)
Why not?
It is an excellent tool for learning programming.
Re:LOGO? (Score:2)
It is an excellent tool for learning programming.
Sort of... Good tool for teaching linear BASIC programming.
Actually, logo is good for teaching geometry -> angles and relationships and stuff.
The next step should be to move into PASCAL with turtle graphics. I found it to be a natural progression. Gets you out of that BASIC mindset.
The thing about LOGO that sux arse nowadays is it's still Linear. At least PASCAL adds procedural programming.
Re:LOGO? (Score:2, Interesting)
You can certainly break
Re:LOGO? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:schools and computer literacy (Score:2, Insightful)
Exactly. I have the same problem at my school, I was required to take a "computer competecy" test that was really a MS Office test.
Re:schools and computer literacy (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll bet it's even worse. Our company bought a 'skills test' a couple of years ago. Very basic PC/Microsoft skills, to supposedly evaluate a new persons training needs.
One in particular I remember was "How do you create a shortcut to an application?" Of course, there are several different ways to do this in Windows. If you didn't answer in the single, exact way they wanted, you failed the question.
Our senior MS developer got a "Needs remedial training". (No, not because he's a crappy developer, or works with MS...but simply because the test was badly flawed)
Suggested Sample question (Score:3, Funny)
Q: You're browsing your favorite site full of neat little applications that will tell you the weather, customize your windows, and even let you download music for free when a pop up box tells you that your computer may be infected with DANGEROUS SPYWARE... You should...
Took the CS Subject AGRE (Score:5, Informative)
To answer your question....I took ETS's CS Subject AGRE 4 years back after completing my Bachelors....and found it pretty interesting.
The exam webpage (no time to dig it up) lists a few CS categories that they'll test on, and happily, these include all the core areas of CS. From memory, the list goes roughly as follows:
Formal Languages and Automata Theory
Algorithms
Languages and Compilers
Computer Architecture
Logic
Databases
All questions were multiple choice like the regular GRE test (the pattern has changed since), but I liked the fact that they focussed on the "core" CS subjects, which every Bachelor's CS course should cover.
New buzzwords like "IT" frighten me....hope they continue to adhere to fundamental knowledge than buzzwordish software/peripheral areas.
How am I supposed to get a job now? (Score:5, Funny)
Go into marketing (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How am I supposed to get a job now? (Score:2)
Probably redundant, but ... (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps it can serve as a model for a test.
Re:Probably redundant, but ... (Score:2)
Canadian Computing Competition (Score:2)
I took that test in HS and scored #1 in my
Good Idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Part of the problem with computing these days is the lack of basic education that the users have about computing in general. There are many people that believe that the CD-ROM drive is a cup holder, that Microsoft is everything (how many users have you seen say that "Microsoft isn't working?" Incredible), don't know anything about the dangers of the Internet and properly securing their computers (i.e., installing a firewall, protecting themselves from viruses and malware by using anti-virus and anti-malware tools, and using Firefox or an alternative to Internet Exploder), don't know about files and folders, or other basic movements with a computer, and faint at the sight of having to learn anything that is more complicated than moving a mouse around and clicking an icon (command lines are a great example). I would love to see a required high-school or college test that tests on all of the basic computing ideas and tasks, plus a little more. Unfortunately, many high schools and colleges have already implemented MS-centric "computer competency" requirements that test on nothing more than how to use MS Office and Windows; they test on specific applications, not about how to use computers per sé.
Am I saying that all of these people need to be tested on writing shell scripts, C programming, configuring ipfw/iptables, and compiling a kernel? Of course not! I'm just saying that I believe that all people using a computer need to be eduacted about the responsibilities and risks of having a computer, and all of the things needed to do in order to protect yourself. We all have to take driver's education and driver's training before we even step foot into a car, because we know the responsibilities and dangers of riding a car. When we get our cars, we have to learn how to maintain it, too. So, how come most users expect that their computers are magical boxes that don't need to be maintained or taken care of? The computer is a powerful multipurpose tool that can be beneficial when used correctly, but can also be a weapon (or zombie) if used incorrectly.
Re:Good Idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Already tested (Score:3, Funny)
.
Did it seem to measure critical thinking and problem solving skills?"
Apparently, these have already been tested elsewhere.
The answer shocked [cnn.com] a few people
.Let's look at the test and the target criteria (Score:4, Insightful)
more questions... (Score:4, Funny)
Leaked practice exam (Score:3, Funny)
and I thought (Score:2, Funny)
seems a bit strange... (Score:2)
Probably it's just the little IT engineer devil from inside me, but determining IT literacy by measuring ability to use sw... wow, this really has to be the 21st century
None of the Above (Score:2)
...is the name of a fine book, probably out of print by now, that exposed many of the fallacies behind tests that purport to measure aptitude rather than raw knowledge.
I remember one wonderful example from the book that gave 4 reading comprehension questions from a recent SAT. I got all 4 correct - it was easy. The kicker is that the book leaves out the excerpt that the test-takers were supposed to read and comprehend. The test wasn't measuring reading comprehension nearly so much as it was measuring t
From the site: (Score:2)
Yeech. "Create and effectivel
I'll wait... (Score:3, Funny)
I'll wait till the Transcender's come out for it before I attempt it... Is there a Boot Camp training being offered for it yet?
Too much testing, not enough Interviewing (Score:5, Insightful)
I see the introduction of yet another test as a poor substitute for one on one personal interviewing of the test subject. They are looking for a quick fix, one that is not people intensive when the fact is, people are best able to evaluate these complex abilities and skills, so long as they take sufficient time in doing so.
This is just like "No Child Left Behind". Instead of investing in the people, in that case teachers to work with students, a battery of standardized tests are introduced as a substitute. Yet, there is no validation of the testing against its objective, while we entrust our decisions to those very tests.
That is the biggest issue here as well. We are attempting to replace human judgement with supposedly objective testing, when it is precisely the complexity of that human judgement that is called for.
Re:Too much testing, not enough Interviewing (Score:3, Interesting)
The answer is simply that you are making assumptions about what the test is measuring. Maybe the test is filtering out the best people for the job, not the worst? There is only one way to know, and that is to validate the metric, test, against the goal, selecting the best candidates from a larger group.
To the best of my knowledge, no one has done this groundwork. Therefore, you can not know what applying the metric will actuall
It's easier to test for incompetency (Score:5, Interesting)
It's easier to test for incompetency than for competency.
A company I worked for got so many liars applying for jobs that we made these rediculous little tests to give people. Here's a sample question from our C test:
Or for electrical engineers:
I thought these tests were a waste of time. I think I said something like, "If someone is breathing they'll pass it." Then I saw how many people who claimed "expert" on their resume failed the liar's test. Weeding out the liars left us with a much smaller pool of candidates.
How about just a literacy test (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what is making me want to jump ship and get a job instead because If I have one more group project where my group consists of people who are just in college because they are supposed to be I am going to just say fuck it and start a business which is probably what I should have done.
If 4 years of college costs about 100k on the average (including living expenses) then I think I would be a lot better off if I had just been handed 100k at 18 for a business or a property investment.
Oh the ironing... (Score:3, Funny)
From TFA:
Computer Driving Test. (Score:3, Informative)
You know, that concept sounds a whole lot like the "European Computer Driving Test" that all the kids here are taking these days.
Re:16 tasks (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:16 tasks (Score:3, Funny)
I highly doubt it (Score:4, Informative)