Are Video Game Patents Next? 443
MarcOiL writes "Gamasutra is running an article titled It's Just a Game, Right? Top Mythconceptions on Patent Protection of Video Games where two IP lawyers try to convince the videogame industry of patenting everything in sight: ideas, technical contributions, etc. They show as an example a Microsoft patent on Scoring based upon goals achieved and subjective elements. They also have created a weblog, The Patent Arcade, to promote their business. Will this be the real end of innovation in videogames?"
ugh (Score:5, Funny)
Q. What do you have when you have 2 lawyers buried up to their necks in cement?
A. Not enough cement.
Re:ugh (Score:2, Funny)
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ugh (Score:2)
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
BFG
Scoring system based upon shooting your opponent
Status display system based on a HUD
That should cover nearly all FPS games. ID, Blizzard, Rockstar, etc are hereby granted royalty free use of said patent. M$: I want 10% of the retail of each copy sold
-nB
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
Q. How many lawyers does it take to shingle a roof?
A. Depends on how thinly you slice them...
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
A: Professional courtesy!
------
Q: What's the difference between a sucker fish and a lawyer?
A: One's a scum sucking bottom dweller, and the other's a fish!
Aren't they already here? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Aren't they already here? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Aren't they already here? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, they're already here (Score:5, Interesting)
I saw that on slashdot last week with 'A Gamers' Manifesto' [pointlesswasteoftime.com]
From the essay:Manifest schmanifesto (Score:3, Interesting)
Prior art available (Score:5, Informative)
That patent can probably be killed with prior art. The Commodore 64 had "Mix-E-Load" during loading of the cassette version of Thalamus' Delta in 1987. This had music playing and would let you mess with the tracks, changing the bass line, drum beat, etc. and letting you mix your own music.
A year later, in 1988, the Mastertronic game Kane 2 had a Space Invaders game (called Invade-A-Load) that you played while the main game was loading. Again, this was on the cassette version.
These can be played by downloading the relevant .TAP files [64.no] and loading them into an emulator such as x64 [viceteam.org].
Anyway, back on-topic, most of the classic games in existence would not be with us had game companies been patenting stuff like these mutants are suggesting.
Re:Prior art available (Score:3, Insightful)
This sort of thing needs to stop NOW. Game companies that take out patents need to be boycotted when the word gets out to gaming fan sites, existing disks need to be returned to them in pieces.
But it won't happen. I guarantee it will never happen. We will bend over and ask for it harder and deeper once they dangle a few more shiny objects in fron
Re:Prior art available (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Video games... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Video games... (Score:2)
Video game music: not just kid stuff [vgmusic.com]
They got game [sfgate.com]
Those are two I know of, for the rest, use google...
Re:Video games... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Video games... (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as team games, we're getting close to being screwed already. I think EA has exclusive rights to the NFL next year. That means if you want to play as the World Champion New England Patriots, you will only be doing it in an NFL game. That is terrible since ESPN NFL2K5 was better than Madden to me. Now we will have ESPN Football2K6 with fake teams. Half of the fun is being your team with your players.
Re:Video games... (Score:2, Funny)
Speaks volumes about the gameplay...
Re:Video games... (Score:2)
Re:Video games... (Score:2)
In theory, sure. In practice, it seems no more ridiculous than business model patents, or UI design patents. Coach it in the right language (maybe touching on difficult-to-avoid implementation elements), and I wouldn't be surprised if it were approved.
Re:Video games... (Score:2)
Isn't this the whole problem with software patents, though? They often seem to be patening the idea itself; copyright already protects the actual implementation.
Re:Video games... (Score:2)
Can you name a league that plays the game at a level comparable to the NFL? Otherwise the description is apt.
-sam
D&D as Prior Art? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:D&D as Prior Art? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:D&D as Prior Art? (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to have missed the key prhases: "on the internet" or "using a computer". Those two phrases alone make the idea new and unique and prior art becomes moot... Atleast that's how it seems these days...
Re:Fine, then we have... (Score:2)
Ask Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
Yes.
Wow that was an easy Ask Slashdot!
Re:Ask Slashdot (Score:2)
Re:Ask Slashdot (Score:2)
Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:5, Insightful)
Note: I don't agree with software or videogame patents, because I think they screw the consumer in the end by providing a crappy product, at likely a high price. But still, that last sentence made no sense.
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:2)
I'm patenting the 30nm chip production process and in order to try and implement it, I've gotten a bucket of unprocessed silicon.
Then again; why bother when you can just use submarine patents.
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yup. this one [newscientist.com] for example - sony patenting a technology that they themselves admit is just IP grabbing: "There were not any experiments done," she says. "This particular patent was a prophetic invention. It was based on an inspiration that this may someday be the direction that technology will take us."
I would find it funny if it didn't nauseate me.
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:2)
Then again; nobody has yet shown me any patent which is both moraly right AND unenforceable by simple copyright.
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:3, Insightful)
As unpopular an opinion as it is now a days, the good creative content is often built on older creative content. For instance, we couldn't have had hl/hl2/cs with out id and doom.
Interesting mental exercise: Imagine a world where ID DID patent Doom and it's methods.
Imagine patents on books. Or,
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:5, Insightful)
What if the guys who made marble madness had patented "Using an electronic input device to control a digital sphere through the visual representation of a three dimensional world"? I'm no patent lawyer, so I don't know how much sense that makes, but it reads about as basic and vague to me as most of the patent summaries I browse do.
By that measure, things like bowling games or Super Monkey Ball could be threatened. Is there a connection between Super Money Ball and marble madness? Yeah, on a really superficial level. Do the games play at all alike? Nope. Were the designers inspired by Marble Madness? Maybe. Did they ruthlessly steal expensively developed ideas from the Marble Madness developers? No.
Even Katamari Damacy could be argued to fall under a patent like that. And that's generally considered one of the most fun, original games of the past year.
I'm going to agree that any kind of software patents are going to be very harmful to the industry as a whole. And just shifting the current patent system to something like video games is going to pretty much be death to it.
The lawyer's argument is basically, getting patents is a way for the current players to make more money and cement their position on top of the biz. You can't seriously make the argument that, in this case, patents will spur on innovation, because there's been leaps and bounds of innovation in the relatively patent free video game universe since its inception.
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:2)
No. In reality, it will cause a mass amount of confusion for gamers and a stifling of the industry. To quote a bit from the Gamer's Manifesto article that was posted a couple days ago (omitting the link since another comment has this quote, too):
Patents. Did you know there's a patent held by some microscopic software company on spherical camera controls in realtime 3D, and they're starting to level laws
Metaphor (Score:2)
Video games are very similar to movies or books - they are siblings or cousins in the media family.
What if you could patent certain aspects of stories or movies?
The works of Shakespeare are, by and large, based on lesser plays, historical fictions or actual histories. He didn't invent most of his subject matter. He built on what he had.
All creative endeavor builds on existing ideas.
I am still a bit awestruck that people don't have the imagination to see
while i am not a bit hater of (Score:2)
I think this more than anything would really stiffle innovation. the whole gaming industry moves so fast that it wouldn't seem worth it to waste money on patents. you would think they would want to crank out the next product to garner more earnings than sit on one idea for to long.
but then again, that is logical
Re:while i am not a bit hater of (Score:2)
Now I think that was more of a publicity stunt then an act
Patents (Score:2, Insightful)
However, video games don't give back the same benefits as say, food, energy and transportation. A fellow programmer once said to me "What if someone had a patent on the First Person Shoo
Re:Patents (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Patents (Score:2)
Re:Patents (Score:2)
Of course it does, albeit indirectly.
Video games provide food to the thousands who're involved in making, selling, and distributing video games.
Video games provide transportation and power by encouraging people to stay at home and play video games, which reduces the number of people and vehicles on road, which reduces the overall energy consumption of your city as well the number of people copulating in your
The End of Innovation? Maybe a New Beginning... (Score:2)
However...
I suspect that an increase in patents on game software features might promote innovation in games, since it might be harder to just spit out yet another first-person shooter without getting sued.
Re:The End of Innovation? Maybe a New Beginning... (Score:3, Informative)
A patent application is usually done as a series of claims from most general to most specific. Let's take Doom as an example. The claims might be:
#1. We invented interactive entertainment.
#2.
#3.
#4.
[snip]
#99.
My New Patent (Score:2)
The MS patent in question (Score:2)
Re:The MS patent in question (Score:2)
"Righteous Patents!" (Score:2, Informative)
Signed,
Human Capacity for Lameness is Apparently Inexhaustible, Esq.
I hope not. (Score:2)
I REALLY hope not
The french game studios said "NON". (Score:2)
Here's a slightly improved Google translation for the french impaired
Position of the APOM on directive COM(2002)092 relating to the patentability of the "inventions implemented by computer"
Mister the Prime Minister,
The APOM is the French association of producers of multi-media works. It gathers 80 percent of the French producers of video games, an indus
Lawyers suck. (Score:2)
Incidently, I heard over 95% of congress being laywers.....
Imagine if the original LineTo algorithm got patented or if id software patented everything they did, we'd still be darkages in terms of graphics.
"If I h
Re:Lawyers suck. (Score:2)
Incidently, I heard over 95% of congress being laywers.....
Imagine if the original LineTo algorithm got patented or if id software patented everything they did, we'd still be darkages in terms of graphics.
I
I think an excellent comparison is this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I think an excellent comparison is this (Score:4, Informative)
It perfectly illustrates how they play wordgames in order to illegally issue software patents. A must-read for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.
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Innovation Death (Score:2)
You are in a m
preemptive strike (Score:2)
Re:preemptive strike (Score:2)
M.A.M.E. as prior art (Score:2)
Re:M.A.M.E. as prior art (Score:3, Informative)
i,robot (1983)
5 years (hard drivin', 1988)
Re:M.A.M.E. as prior art (Score:3, Funny)
what was the first arcade game to feature a "punch" button?
Double Dragon.
How about the first solid-object polygon game?
Um... Double Dragon!
How many years before the 2nd one?
Double Dragon?
Patents need a longer duration (Score:3, Funny)
I believe patents should be perpetual. Once you create it it should be your forever! And you children and your childrens children. We have seen my the slow - nay, slowing pace (based on patents per dollar spent on healthcare)- of patent applications and inventions in the 20th century that patent protection does not provide the needed impetus for our truly creative technical experts to advance the sciences.
There are numerous cases of inventors who could have changed the world, but insted of licencing their technology, compaies just waited until the patents ran out, and the used those iventions with no compensation to the creative mind whatsoever.
This must stop. We all must rise up and demand perpetual patents now.
(aren't you glad there isn't a _really_ organized lobby for patent holders like there is for performance artists?)
Might not really happen... (Score:2)
Nooo (Score:2)
What do you call a hundred dead lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?
A good start.
Re:Nooo (Score:2)
No more stealth porn browsing (Score:2)
I bet someone's mom/wife suggested this feature...
Educate the examiners (Score:2)
If an idea is not in the prior art and a couple of geeks can't quickly imagine/document the idea for the database, then
Ok, this has been said 1000's times before... (Score:3, Interesting)
You can't patent films, artwork, photos or music (Score:2)
Already happens, and is a problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes! (Score:2)
Maybe then when my seven-month old daughter is old enough for those game-addict genes she got from her dad to kick in, the video games will be so lame that she'll read a book instead.
What innovation? (Score:2, Insightful)
I didn't realize we still had innovation. I thought we had three or four basic games with improving graphics, different controls and the same generic UI. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy a lot of the games out there nowadays. But I haven't seen something real innovative in a while.
Re:What innovation? (Score:2)
Conspiracy theory (Score:3, Funny)
The TV and Movie industries are desperate to get the 12 to 24 year old males back in front of their crap. Killing game innovation could be just the ticket.
No longer game publishers will profit from games (Score:2)
I felt like retching. What a despicable attitude the authors of the article have.
Basically they say: true, patents for game developers are useless, evil, and costly, but pay us to get them for you, because your competitor may do so too and you won't be able to defend yourself if you don't have patents of your own.
I almost felt ill when I read how they encouraged game developers to patent even VERY small changes to existing game concepts. What a
Might be a good thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, for that to happen there should be some innovation to start with. Paradoxically, software patent could actually enforce some goddamn innovation in games, by preventing game developers from ripping each other off continuosly and rehashing the same stuff over and over again.
The question asked is... (Score:2)
The answer is: No, real innovation ended in videogames around the time doom2 hit the scene.
How could it end innovation? (Score:2)
Will this be the real end of innovation in videogames?"
I'm as much against patents as the next person here, but if people can't make new games that resemble existing games, that should surely encourage innovation. Each arcade game used to be radically different from the last in the eighties. Shoot-'em-ups already existed, so people started making games where you were a marble in a maze, or a plumber attacking turtles. These days the majority of games can be pigeonholed neatly into a category such as fir
Parasites. (Score:5, Insightful)
Before issuing a condemnation, I try hard to think about it from their point of view -- the laws of the land set the rules of the game, and lawyers are deeply confused at why some of us aren't using all the tools that the game gives us.
Patents are usually discussed in the context of someone "stealing" an idea from the long suffering lone inventor that devoted his life to creating this one brilliant idea, blah blah blah.
But in the majority of cases in software, patents effect independent invention. Get a dozen sharp programmers together, give them all a hard problem to work on, and a bunch of them will come up with solutions that would probably be patentable, and be similar enough that the first programmer to file the patent could sue the others for patent infringement.
Why should society reward that? What benefit does it bring? It doesn't help bring more, better, or cheaper products to market. Those all come from competition, not arbitrary monopolies. The programmer that filed the patent didn't work any harder because a patent might be available, solving the problem was his job and he had to do it anyway. Getting a patent is uncorrelated to any positive attributes, and just serves to allow either money or wasted effort to be extorted from generally unsuspecting and innocent people or companies.
Yes, it is a legal tool that may help you against your competitors, but I'll have no part of it. Its basically mugging someone.
I could waste hours going on about this. I really need to just write a position paper some day that I can cut and paste when this topic comes up.
John Carmack
Re:yes (Score:2)
Re:yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's next? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What's next? (Score:2)
Outstanding. Stop being so selfish and hoarding your possessions. Give me your money and all you computer equipment.
Did you really mean "every", or did you mean "every, except for me."?
Possession of a patent, like possession of any property (intellectual or tangible) can be good or bad. Humanity isn't selfless enough for pure communism to ever work, so reasonably-constrained private ownership is a good alternative to
Re:What's next? (Score:2)
Political compain strategies.
accents (for actors)
colors
fashions
dance moves (I guess MJ missed the boat!)
Re:fscked (Score:2)
Re:I can see it now. (Score:2)
Re:IS this a good idea? (Score:2)
So where's the difference to other software patents?
Re:Human patents? (Score:4, Informative)
**note: this is all from memory of a (single?) online news story quite some time ago, the facts may be significantly different that I have implied**
Re:Human patents? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Question (Score:2)