At Least 25 Million Americans Pirate Movies 392
ThinSkin writes "Roughly 18 percent of the U.S. online population has illegally downloaded a full-length movie at some point in the past, according to a telephone and online study of 2,600 Americans. A typical movie downloader is 29 years of age, while 63 percent of all downloaders are male, and 37 percent are female. Kaan Yigit, director of the study, observes, 'There is a Robin Hood effect — most people perceive celebrities and studios to be rich already and as a result don't think of movie downloading as a big deal. The current crop of 'download to own' movie services and the new ones coming into the market will need to offer greater flexibility of use, selection and low prices to convert the current users to their services — otherwise file-sharing will continue to thrive.'"
18%? (Score:5, Insightful)
Combine these two and you have a huge motivation for people to do this, regardless of their ever watching the movie.
It may be too late to stuff the genii back in the bottle. The result is that this becomes an "entitlement" that people expect. We are looking at a lot of people being out of work as a result. Not the "stars" but the studio grunts and the folks in the promotions and marketing departments.
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Re:18%? (Score:5, Insightful)
we're talking about the majority of the US population, you know: the people that type in their search queries in their browser URL field because they can't tell the difference. These are the people that are confused by the big blue lowercase 'e', when internet is spelled with an 'i' ("I want to get on the internet - what? click on the lowercase e? That's totally retarded!"). They don't know how to check their hotmail account. They don't know how whether or not their computer is already hijacked. They can't tell the difference between the internet and American Online. You expect these people to start installing p2p software and start downloading files for their use (nevermind the fact that to go looking for the stuff in the first place)?
I'm suprised by the age bracket, I totally suspected it would be lower, mostly consisting of teenagers and college kids, ages 13-22. I'm 29 myself, and to be honest, with my current lifestyle, I really don't have the time to fuck around with semi-corrupt files and the arduous process of assembling multiple files from different sources, just to get a cracked copy of a computer game or a movie file. It's much more convenient to take a few bucks and buy the stuff. Why go thru all that hassle? Especially at 29 years old? Sure, when I was in college I had all the time in the world to wait for that ultra-rare mp3 to finish downloading from Germany. But I'm used to fast now and more importantly if it costs a few more bucks for the convenience, I don't mind shelling out. I've got income, and I will pay for my fast-paced (or some would just call it lazy) lifestyle. So sue me. I pay for the service, not the art.
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...I had all the time in the world to wait for that ultra-rare mp3 to finish downloading from Germany. But I'm used to fast now...
Wow... your internet connection must be pretty slow. Mine's not the fastest available to me, but is a decent speed (7Mb)... fast enough that a 4.5GB DVD would take about 1.5 hours to download, or roughly the amount of time it would take to watch it. Haven't had much call to do it, but that has more to do with my lack of interest in movies than my available bandwidth.
Re:18%? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that the rather sensationalistic headline is contradicted by the article itself.
Not to mention that this seems like a typical Slashdot bias. Picture the reaction if one were to prefix the article with: "In a study conducted by the MPAA..." People would be falling all over themselves pointing out how the numbers have to be grossly overstated.
Either way, since the article didn't provide any information about how the study was conducted, how the 2,600 people were found, demographics, et.al., I have to believe the numbers are simply bogus. Cherry pick your starting group, and you can extrapolate to any absurd number.
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Have you ever one of their union books? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Really? Is that actually a motivating factor in most people?
Man, am I out of touch with the world.
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I'd really like to know more about the way this study was conducted. It says it was at least partially done online, which opens up the possibility of a selection b
Re:18%? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd say so, too...unless they are counting porn.
I think the movie industry is really overstating their case here. A recent study [npd.com] claims that P2P downloads are 60% porn, 20% TV shows, and only 5% full-length movies.
So what are they so worried about? Consider the fact that porn is by far the most downloaded copyrighted content, and it's probably safe to assume that pirated porn represents a much, much larger percentage of porn consumed in comparison to "legitimate" movies, and thus their "losses" are far higher. Can anyone honestly claim that porn is dying from piracy?
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It is even more attractive when doing something that is legally criminal is morally the high ground. Then you are not only gaining, but protecting others too.
"We are looking at a lot of people being out of work as a result. Not the stars, but
I disagree. The need for people in media will always be there. When you kill the copyright cartel, that will force the market to center around information services
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Broadband reports [websiteoptimization.com] has US broadband penetration at 47%.
You're saying that half of all broadband users are capable of downloading a bit torrent client, running it, finding divx, installing it, and getting the movie to run... sure, they could be downloading quicktime movies or WMV files, but any of these combinations is equally challenging to your mom, your grandpa, and your brother in law- 1 person out of 5 is a hell of a lot of people.
The US population is roughly 300MM. 18% of this i
Re:18%? (Score:5, Interesting)
well, since you backed that up quite logically...
Now, if you had read the article:
" U.S. online population"
and then noticed the head line says 25 million.
Any one of these would indicate to someone of average or greater intelligence that it's not al Americans.
Based on the actual artical, 18% seem pretty reasonable a number.
Now if broadband is at 50%(adjust for easy of math), that mean 150 million americans have
broadband. Pretty cliose to 18%.
Please. Try. To. Think.
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No frickin way is it 18%.
Broadband reports [websiteoptimization.com] has US broadband penetration at 47%.
You're saying that half of all broadband users...
Woah! Check your units--the 18% is "percent of the US online population"--so that's only 18 percent of people (or households? I'm not sure) that are online.
Whereas that "penetration" number appears to be a percentage of *all* (online or not) households.
Re:18%? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Mods - please!?
How does this guy get +5 insightful when he clearly hasn't bothed to read the summary, let alone the article.
No - he hasn't even read the fscking HEADLINE! It says 25m, not 54. 18% of the online population.
Yeah, if I'm surprised I must be new here.
Re:18%? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:18%? (Score:5, Funny)
Step 1: Download Bitlord.
Step 2: Download VLC Media Player
Step 3: Visit Mininova and find a tracker.
Step 4: Open file with VLC and enjoy.
But still I think your right. It's probably not 18% of all citizens, probably more like 18% of all households with broadband.
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Really? Even if there were no copyright laws and the US basically had piracy like China there would still be multi-million dollar movies made because they still make more money than not making movies.
Come to think of it... There have been a great deal of large scale movies coming out of China/Hong Kong lately. Like "The Promise" and that other that
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18% will admit to having illegally downloaded in a telephone survey.
Another 28% are sufficiently paranoid about it to lie.
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Just because you can justify it, doesn't make it right.
-dave
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Does getting a movie from netflix and making a copy count as an 'illegal download'?
We are NOT CRIMINALS (Score:3, Insightful)
Movies are binary encoded Information.
And Information Wants To Be Free.
It is our right and our duty.
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"The phrase 'information wants to be free' is pseudo religious nonsense."
You're right, of course. Information doesn't care if its free or not. On the other hand, it can be show that, with the advent of very low cost distribution, creation and promotion, the arguments for copyright protection (ie: to repay the high costs of creation, distribution and promotion) have fallen apart; there are no longer high costs to repay - and if there are, someone's been skimming.
Is it you? Is tha
25 Million Pirate Movies?? (Score:5, Funny)
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Americans, or movies?
Too lazy to go to the library? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's easier! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's easier! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? To enjoy the theater experience. You know, flying popcorn, being kicked by the idiot behind you, cell phones ringing, babies crying, people talking endlessly.
Thats why!
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Hmmm interesting. You must be older than the most typical age of downloaders if you know what a "goto" is :)
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Astroturf - please mod down (Score:2)
Re:And you guys wonder why the politicians listen (Score:2)
*removes tongue from cheek*
No, seriously, a 'radio tax' would be lovely; there are precedents that say that's the only charge they can make for a given medium.
And because of the fundamental flaws in DRM, I highly doubt we'll see the end of pirated anything, ever. Maybe if they smartened up and started using compression-resistant steganography instead of DRM, they might be able to scare enough of th
That's not all... (Score:4, Funny)
Smart (Score:2, Insightful)
That's the smartest thing I've read throughout this entire entertainment industry / piracy fiasco. Treating the root problem, instead of the symptoms is sheer brilliance.
Sampling Frame? (Score:3, Insightful)
The sampling frame would have an inherent bias towards a higher percentage, as those without internet (ie. those who weren't part of the sampling frame, and those who are very unlikely to pirate) weren't even asked. No mention of accounting for this in TFA. Flawed study. Nothing to see here, please move along.
Re:Sampling Frame? (Score:4, Insightful)
IANAMP - I am not a marketing professional (Score:2)
Applying my vast intellect and deductive skills, I would hazard a guess that the percentage of those without an internet connection who have downloaded a movie from the internet would be a figure not terribly unadjacent to zero.
Jealousy, That is all it is. (Score:3, Insightful)
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All the people who I know who download movies enjoy a good theater movie. Spending $10 to get to see a movie on a giant screen with no compression artifacts and an awesome sound system is still a reasonably good deal. The thing that downloading really replaces is DVD rentals, which are strictly a bad deal compared to 2CD XviD releases.
Convenience (Score:5, Interesting)
So when a blockbuster is released like LOTR the options are:
a. suffer in the theater
b. wait half a year for the DVD
c. download the torrent
Just make the first runs available for download and guaranteed the piracy problem will be minimized.
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I seldom hear a cell phone, crying baby or anything like that.
Of course, I don't go to the 2 dollar mantinee, so maybe that's the difference.
I don't believe this. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Study of the obvious... (Score:2, Interesting)
The reality is that these groups hate to admit that technology is devaluing their product. Basically, for the first time, these groups have realized that they are unable to set their price to whatever they like. Now that a consumer is able to download their product readily, their product is not as valuable as it once was. As hard as they try, this will not change because it is
Bandwidth (Score:2)
Eighteen Percent?! (Score:4, Insightful)
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They may be counting copies distributed on the darknet after downloading. Burning a CD for a friend, that sort of thing.
Bullpuckies (Score:4, Insightful)
Absolutely, positively false.
Any not because I consider people more honest than that - If you include people copying DVDs or even back in the days of copying VHS tapes, I'd put the figure closer to 70-80% that have pirated a movie.
But to specifically say "downloaded"?
18% of the US population either doesn't have a net connection anywhere near fast enough to download a full-length movie, or has no clue how to actually do so. The most inflated figures available only put roughly a third of the country as having "broadband", which includes quite a bit of the "anything faster than dialup" you see in rural areas, usually under 384kbps. And of those households with "real" broadband, fewer than half of the occupants actually have a clue on how to use the internet (either young parents with kids too young to pirate, or older parents who only have it for the teenager kids).
So no. 18% of respondants in an almost certainly urban area (much higher broadband penetration) have downloaded a pirated movie. The MPAA, however, needs to learn the meanings of "external validity" and "sample bias".
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I'm willing to bet that a majority of the people in whatever "the U.S. online population" is, have broadband.
Most people with dial-up don't sit there for hours surfing, looking for online surveys to fill out. I suspect that there are some flawed assumptions in this study, but adding more flawed assumptions doesn't help.
M-
Hollywood constantly loses money (Score:5, Funny)
Numbers dont lie (Score:5, Funny)
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Movie theaters suck (Score:3, Insightful)
"Robin Hood" effect? (Score:3, Insightful)
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SneakerNet lives!!!1! (Score:3, Insightful)
I just counted a few days ago and estimate I have around 850 individual DVD discs, with about 60%-70% being real store purchased DVDs, the others being copies of movies, shows and the MST3K DVD collection project (every MST3K episode ever, all going to DVD).
The reason I copy is so I can take my time with the "borrowed" DVDs and to watch stuff I would never be purchasing anyway. Nor would I rent them. How the MPAA can claim that they lost a purchase from someone like myself just goes to show what a bunch of useless, greedy douchebags they are. F them, I make plenty of real purchases. Perhaps I should just copy everything and never pay for it. Their tactics make a good case for me to just go all bootleg. *Then* what? Can they ever stop sneakernet?
no.
movie pirate (Score:4, Funny)
Results are meaningless! (Score:4, Insightful)
It's also interesting that a survey that was taken via telephone and online is used to extrapolate to the entire population. Since not everyone has a computer, then they could hardly be included in the population (statistical not US). Furthermore, telephone surveys only include people with listed telephone numbers, so again, your statistical population is skewed. Online surveys do not work if they are voluntary (ie would you like to fill out our survey?) Since there is no indication of how many people who chose not to fill out the survey.
Based on the limited information given, it appears that this is another example of using statistics to get them to say what you want. Since most people are functionally illiterate when it comes to statistics, it's very easy for people to use bogus statistical methods to manipulate the data and ultimately the readers of the article.
For any sample to be legit and extrapolated to an entire population it has to be random and representative. If it's not both of those, then the extrapolated data is meaningless.
Re:Results are meaningless! (Score:4, Informative)
People who analyize statistice account for all this, and in face it can be very close.
Back of envelope:
47% of americans have broadmand(call it 150 million for easy).
25 million of those are clamied to download at least one movie.
Thats about 18%.
Now most people in the US with broadmand have a listed telephone number. Yes yes I know your crowd is extremly cool people no one has one, but really you are an insignifigant statistcal abnormality at this time.
The data is not meaningless, you just have to try and understand statistics in some practical way.
Adult movies (Score:3, Informative)
But It Was Out of Print (Score:2)
I definitely would not have been happy about this had I shelled out the $100 or more that the resellers on Amazon are asking for this title. This is certainly one that could use one more remake, and hopefully b
Curiosity must be a factor (Score:4, Insightful)
People are curious about what you can get on the wide-open Internet. Free stuff is all over the place. Downloading gives near-instant gratification (well, unless you're on a modem) without leaving your house. There is practically no competition to the ubiquity and convenience of P2P file sharing. Satellite and Digital Cable aren't IP-based solutions, so it's an extra service on top of your Internet fee. None of the major television networks allow you to pay them directly and get an Internet-based feed, nor do any of the major motion picture production houses.
I think a more sane approach to P2P piracy is to increase the rate at which people get bored with BitTorrent. Offer competing, low-cost alternatives to buying or renting the media. Provide television service on the Internet. I'm certain that I would pay money for high-quality Internet-based content delivery. I *really* want to watch live sports on the Internet. I'd love to log into my local television network and download archived copies of stuff they aired. And I'm quite willing to pay for it. I've already chosen my distribution medium, and the pirates are the only guys catering to it. Don't complain about the piracy, offer an alternative.
Good Start (Score:3, Insightful)
18% sounds like a good start, I'd expect this number to increase to about 35-40% before the studios finally release non-DRMed versions for downloads (at lower than DVD prices).
This board (Slashdot) is filled with a virtual panoply of views on this subject. As is usual though, I think the truth of the matter lies in the nebulous neutral zone.
Let's face it, neither side has really taken the high road on this. People download and distribute movies like they were free commodities and the MPAA bullies people unreasonably and tries to make us all thieves.
I have to sit in theatre with my $12 ticket and watch the stunt double talk about his belief that stealing movies is wrong (I just paid $12 for this, talk about preaching to the choir). And then I blow 20+ minutes watching advertisements for other movies (AKA: previews). When I take a movie home, I have to watch the trailers (they lock out the buttons) for movies I may already have seen or in fact may already own. And then I can't complain and return the video b/c it's already open.
However, the vast load of downloaders are some mix of vigilantes and free-loaders, collectors and connoisseurs. So every solution proposed by the MPAA (i.e.: DRM) effectively blocks the good downloaders as well as the free-loaders.
In the end really, both sides are too stuck up to take the high road and fix the problem. So we'll just end up with 40% of people stealing music before the studios just give in. After which we'll be flooded with 5 years of low-quality movies until people start anteing up again.
Why not just skip the whole process, stop bad-mouthing everyone and figure out something that works. If I want to buy newly-released Italian movies for my family and I can't find them, then who can I lean on to get them out here? If I can't stand previews, then how can I organize around them? Can I show up late with a dozen friends and walk in near the estimated end of the previews? Can I take cell phone calls during the previews, I mean, it's not really the movie is it? You know the stunt double guy? I just stopped going to the theatre that showed him. Maybe I should start asking sales clerks about return policies on DVDs, or refusing to buy DVDs that are "not quite DVDs".
I'm a basketball fan, but I don't have cable. Once they start posting my Raptors games to the Net, then I will start buying them (so that I can watch them on the bus to work). But until then, I just don't watch them. I don't download them illegally out of some self-righteous belief that I can, I'm taking the high road and waiting for them to catch up.
No shit, Sherlock!!! (Score:2)
Bloody hell, I'm glad they included the second figure, otherwise I would have been all at sea!!!
Good information here (Score:2)
: p
Think of the little guys... (Score:3, Insightful)
Same deal when a company falls on hard times, the lowly employees get canned, raises are suspended, some salary reductions may occur if voted in (sometimes employees are given this choice instead of being laid off), but the CEO and the high-ups still make a crapload of money.
Not to say I'm a Saint or anything. Sometimes I get to thinking and realize I may be getting that one key grip laid off.
Pirates... (Score:2)
Supid Peopel (Score:2, Interesting)
I must live in an alternative universe (Score:2)
How did they conduct this survey? (Score:2)
Random Individual: (nervously) Um.... no?
Without more details as to how this study was conducted, we really have no clue whether these results are reasonable or not.
make the experience better or offer an alternative (Score:3, Interesting)
When I was a kid I would go to the movies a couple times a month, now its a couple times a year. I actually have more free time to do so, but the negatives far outweigh the positives so I stay home.
Legal downloads are insane, most of them are more expensive than DVD's, have crappier resolution, and have so much drm they are basically useless. If streaming movies were available day and date with DVD or PPV releases at a cost similar to PPV it would probably go over much better.
I know Divx (Not the encoding but the format pushed by Circuit City) wasnt popular in the store, but something similar would be a pretty decent solution for downloads, a limited play but burnable download for $3-$4 sounds alot more attractive than driving to a rental place.
Whatever happened to Mark Cuban's experiment with day and date theatrical releases? It sounded like a good idea, I really dont think the theatre crowd will shrink much, the few times I go it seems its mostly teenagers there for the hang out so they will still show up. Movies that have to be experienced on the big screen will still draw crowds.
I suspect alot of the fear with day and date releases is that streaming or downloads will even the playing field, at the theatre you get anywhere from 1-20 choices where with an online service you could potentially have hundreds, suddenly art and independent films have the same marquee as the big studios which will only hurt the big studios.
From the "We Are Watching You Department" (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:It's Still Wrong-"/." technicalities. (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps you should try this one: go down to the Ford dealership, get a few salesmen to talk to you about their most expensive truck, and then invite them to come watch you buy a Chevrolet down the street instead. They'll be upset too, but that doesn't mean you should buy a Ford just to make the salesmen happy. They'd like to make a sale, but that doesn't mean you owe it to them.
Re:It's Still Wrong-"/." technicalities. (Score:4, Insightful)
Suppose you're in your car, stopped at a red light, when someone walks up and washes your windshield. You never asked him to do it, and he never made an offer; he just starts doing it. Then, when he's done, he demands $10 for this service. Do you owe him $10?
I say no. That's not how working works - you don't do the work first, unsolicited and without a promise of payment, and then demand that whoever benefitted from it has to pay you.
If you want to be a janitor for the city, you can't just go pick up some garbage at the park, and then march down to city hall demanding to get paid for the hours you put in. You have to offer them your services first and come to an agreement as to what they want you to do and how much you want to get paid for it. You have to face the possibility that maybe they aren't willing to pay you as much as you think your time is worth, and if that's the case, you can choose to spend your time doing something else.
It's the same with this. If you want to get paid for writing a song, it's stupid to write the song first, for free, and then demand payment from everyone who listens to it or downloads it. You can't demand payment later for unsolicited work you did earlier. If you want to get paid, you should find someone who'll agree to pay you for your time, then start working.
Just curious...
A person downloading music, however, has not made any promises to the artist. An artist is not morally entitled to payment just because the downloader listened to his song, or made a copy of it, or shared that copy with a friend. The downloader didn't ask him to write it; the artist made that choice on his own, perhaps hoping to get paid, but knowing full well that he can't control what other people do with his song once they hear it.
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You could say the emperor has no clothes. They go around pretending that their monopoly control over information distriubtion is the physical and moral equivilancy as any property right. It's not only immoral, but outright vicious against progress in the information age and spit in the face on "real" culture vs hollywood m
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong! (Score:3, Insightful)
Will you people please for the love of all that is holy get it straight.
Theft is theft, and copyright violation is copyright violation. If they were the same thing, we wouldn't need two different laws to handle them each.
To make it super simple:
Theft: The act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny. [reference.com]
Copyright Violation: The unauthorized use of material that is protected by intellectual property rights law particularly the copyrigh [wikipedia.org]
Who is the real thief now? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, piracy is stealing, but so are the studios when they steal from these guys. I doubt the Forest Gump author would shed a tear if you told him you stole 'his' movie
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So those blacks were legally wrong. However, sometimes you need to break a law to fix an injustice.
Of course, they were morally right, but that is different.
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You've probably never even heard of them...
Here is one of the reasons (Score:5, Interesting)
With that said, I also want to state that I download video and music from the Internet all of the time. Just about everything that I download however, is not owned or copyrighted by the entertainment cartels. This is not because I have any moral qualms about doing so, rather, it is because most of the stuff produced by the entertainment cartels is pure unadultrated crap. It is a good thing that there are so many people "pirating." I hope that the piracy rate goes even higher until the entertainment cartels finally get the message. When the cartels finally accept the fact that they can no longer overcharge for their product and put unreasonable controls over how their product can be watched, they may regain some of the customers they have lost.
Much of what has been put out by the cartels these days has been little more than glorified reruns. If I want original entertainment, I go to the Internet and such sites as You Tube. The entertainment cartels will most likely never again make the kind of money that they once made now that they have competition, however people will be better off, and new producers will be able to enter the market. Yes, "piracy" is good, and no, it is NOT STEALING.
Re:Here is one of the reasons (Score:4, Funny)
Think about it: When you download a movie, you get a movie. When you rent or buy a movie, you get threatened by the FBI and Interpol. The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife and sell it to dumb tourists.
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-lots of DVDs that you buy have those previews you can't skip (along with FBI warnings indeed)
-I hate most DVD menus with a passion
-most DVDs are overpriced (30$CDN+ is not uncommon at all)
-DVD cases take a fair amount of space when you have a lot (vs 700MB AVIs on a network share
Re:Here is one of the reasons (Score:4, Insightful)
Pros
- Free
- Ad Free
- Versatile
- Distributable
- Modifiable
- Abundance (I love this one the most. I know what its like to hear "Sorry no-one but you listens to/watches that, so we don't stock it")
Cons:- Illegal
- No nice packaging (I love a good box that i can display, but sadly this is fading away a lot)
Did i miss anything?