OLPC Announces Buy-2-Get-1 XO Laptop Sale 360
theodp writes "Starting November 12, The One Laptop Per Child Project will sell its affordable XO laptop to Americans for a brief period of time, but there's a slight catch: U.S. buyers must purchase two computers — one for their own child and one for a child in the developing world — for a total cost of $399. 'Staff members of the laptop project were concerned that American children might try the pared-down machines and find them lacking compared to their Apple, Hewlett-Packard or Dell laptops. Then, in this era of immediate global communications, they might post their criticisms on Web sites and blogs read around the world, damaging the reputation of the XO Laptop, the project staff worried. So the laptop project sponsored focus-group research with American children, ages 7 to 11, at the end of August. The results were reassuringly positive.'"
$100+$100 = $399? (Score:5, Funny)
If so, how is it buying two costs $399?
Or are they Canadian dollars?
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Although it is still off by around $23.
Re:$100+$100 = $399? (Score:5, Funny)
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*chuckle* I think the worst is being 5 cents short but having a Canadian nickel and 5 U.S. pennies.
Re:Canadian Coins Too (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Canadian Coins Too (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth about money (Score:3, Interesting)
DING! Give this guy a cookie! Or at least a good upmod.
Since everyone abandoned the Gold Standard all money is 'faith based.' Which is why exchange rates fluctuate so wildly these days. I'm not a pure 'Gold Bug' in that I don't think gold is the ONLY possible basis for currency, only that sound money needs A basis in reality and that gold has performed that function well in the past. But if someone made a case for a
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Isn't that the same?
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Re:A certain irony... (Score:5, Informative)
You are not buying a $399 laptop. You are buying a $188 laptop and donating $211 to a charitable cause.
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No, you're ascribing mainline libertarian thought to Ayn Rand; she really did think altruism was evil, even if you were only using your own money.
Side rant on libertarian purity (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be my read as well, but after declaring it evil I doubt she would do anything to prevent you from doing something she though wrongheaded, stupid or even evil so long as you weren't using force (taxes) to do it.
And that is really Freedom Zero. The Right to be Wrong. Person A must be free to think/argue that person B is 'Wrong' but the second they try to enforce that choice on person B they become more wrong. Even though it doesn't fit perfectly I'll use this topic for an example.
If you believe OLPC is 'altrustic' (and believe that to be a bad thing) it is perfecly acceptable to argue the project should not be supported on those grounds in the public arena. Convince enough current supporters to abandon it and it dies, again that is perfectly ok. To even attempt to convince Congress to stomp on it crosses the line to wicked. Of course it is equally wicked to solicit Congress for any assistance on such a project, too bad THAT part is ignored every day Congress is in session.
Re:A certain irony... (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit. Direct quote [ellensplace.net]:
"My views on charity are very simple. I do not consider it a major virtue and, above all, I do not consider it a moral duty. There is nothing wrong in helping other people, if and when they are worthy of the help and you can afford to help them. I regard charity as a marginal issue. What I am fighting is the idea that charity is a moral duty and a primary virtue."
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But you're right, we need to address the problems of our own people first before we go saving everyone else in the world. On the other hand, in the US poor is when you only have one TV set and no cable. There are many people who live below the poverty line that own a home, and who have a car.
Children here that suffer from a la
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Actually you could. Walmart has 1.0 GHz VIA C3 laptops for $398 [walmart.com] in stores or a 1.86 GHz Intel Celeron Acer Aspire for $428 [walmart.com] with 14" LCD, 512meg, 80gig HD and dvd-rom/cdrw with Vista.
Walmart was selling $400 laptops way back in 2005 [news.com], so to hear that someone's trying to sell a 433mhz, 1gig flash memory, 7.5" display laptop-sized device for $400 sounds a little nuts.
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Re:A certain irony... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A certain irony... (Score:4, Insightful)
All I can say about your litany of woes is that in the end, you reap what you sow.
Re:$100+$100 = $399? (Score:5, Informative)
You thought wrong. The laptop is now known as the XO-1 laptop (they have not been able to maintain the price within the original estimation, it is today priced at $188).
As a side note, IMHO the software development and integration efforts that are happening on the OLPC project are fantastic. All the companies involved in this project are providing their best engineers: Marvell (who made the wireless chip) have their guys developing the firmware often directly according to the feedback they get from the kernel developers, Red Hat is providing plenty of sw engineers (including Marcelo Tosati, who was the 2.4 kernel maintainer!), AMD and Quanta are working on the hardware platform (recently they made efforts to track the power consumption of every single chip in the laptop), etc. This is just incredible how fast the teams are able to progress in such a cooperative environment. This is a sharp contrast with what happens too often in the ordinary Linux world where cooperation is sometimes difficult or inexistent (e.g. kernel developers unable to obtain hardware specs, or hardware vendors attempting to provide some crappy binary drivers without involving the kernel community, etc).
I certainly expect a very high quality product to come out of this project, both on the hardware level and software level. Every single piece of chip or software has been optimized and fine-tuned to make the whole platform work as best as it can. This is going to be one of the best Linux laptop ever made. Just read their weekly updated news page to get a brief understanding of the technical achievements made possible in such an ultra-cooperative environment: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/News [laptop.org]
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Not only that, but, since it's open source, other projects can also benefit from what is being developed and invented for it. Also, several of the enhancements made to the kernel also stand to benefit current laptop users, making them faster and their batteries last longer.
Hopefully, it will also point the way for other hardware makers to work in closer cooperation instead of giving in to Microsoft's threats (
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The sad thing is that their homepage [laptop.org] still proudly lists the price as $100 in the title.
Re:$100+$100 = $399? (Score:5, Funny)
Because they are built around old Pentium processors. It's just a little rounding error, nothing to be upset about.
In other news, several telecom companies have offered to by old Pentiums for their billing systems.
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Canadian currency jokes now end. Of course, where the Euro or Pound is used, BOTH of our currencies are jokes. I was hanging out with some Europeans over the summer here in New York and they were buying up digital cameras, clothing, etc. etc. To them, it was deeply discounted. Sort of felt like living in Mexico.
USD vs. other currencies (Score:5, Informative)
In november 2005, when it was first announced by Carlo Negroponte and Kofi Annan [wikipedia.org], it was hoped that it would cost around $100. Currently it is going to cost $188. That's an increase of +88%.
Quanta, the maker, is Taiwan-based. The local currency is the New Taiwan Dollar (NT$, TWD).
The initial $100 was at that time [x-rates.com] 3'358 NT$, and is currently [x-rates.com] 6'214 NT$, which is a ~ +85% increase.
Some may argue that the, because the NT$ isn't a strong currency, the $ may had repercussion that pulled it down allong. Given the fact that there's a lot of international collaboration going on behing the OLPC project, it won't be too far fetched to compare to other international currency for reference.
In Euro, the initial $100 corresponded in 2005 [x-rates.com] to 85.50 , and the current price [x-rates.com] of $188 is 136.25, which is only ~ +60% increase.
In Swiss francs (CHF), the price jumped from [x-rates.com] 131.10 SFrs to [x-rates.com] 223.70 SFrs, which is only ~ +70%.
In Japanese Yen (JPY), the price jumped from [x-rates.com] 11'844 Y to [x-rates.com] 21'619 Y, which is only ~ +82%.
So depending of who we take as a reference point, results do vary, BUT indeed we see that part of the prise increase may come from the dollar itself loosing its value.
What would be most interesting is to see potential buyers :
Brazil (BRL) : 221.00 to 345.28 thus ~ +56% (only)
(The only country from the OLPC's list whose currency history I managed to find... )
Or country that might be targeted (although not currently interested) :
India (INR) : 4'563 Rs to 7'588 Rs thus ~ +66% (only)
Thailand (THB) : 4'110 B to 6'048 B thus ~ +47% (only)
We definitely see a trend there : the price of the OLPC hasn't risen as much in developing countries as it had in the USA.
Thanks to Wikipedia and Google for the DATA.
Not that I am not an economist. Also I only calculated currency. Factoring the Purchasing power, or the duration of work given salaries in those countries, would be interesting too.
Just wait till they find out... (Score:2, Insightful)
I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .... (Score:4, Funny)
In addition, we buy these systems, and one will be sent to a developing nation. Well, I have been watching American education heading backwards. While I have defended our Education, it was more based on what I recall as a child. IOW, my generation KNEW the geography that we are accused of not knowing. But I talk to kids today and it is obvious that their core knowledge is degrading (as well as their desire to work). I worry about my kids (1 and 3.5) future. I would like to see at least some of these computers go to American schools. Do not get me wrong. I like donating to developing countries, but we also need to take care of home. Our inner cities need help. Even rural schools could use these.
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:5, Funny)
Is your next kid going to be named '95'?
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. Specifically, they need to know how to use computers. Most of the teachers don't really know how, and worse, most of them are certain that they do. The best way to teach them is to give them a simple one that isn't (readily) capable of playing flashy video games, music, and movies, but can be programmed.
This has to be done before they're thrown the high school "Computer 101" class where they're put through every circle of MS Office Hell. With very few exceptions, you can't start teaching someone to code in college; either they've already been doing it, or they'll never know how. The kids who took the Office classes in high school and think it made them computer savvy don't normally last past the first year in CS.
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Strongly disagree.
Maybe I'm one of the very few in your definition, but on a personal note I've never done any sort of computer programming until my freshman year of college, and even then the course was taught in a manner too liberal for anyone to learn anything. I started doing real code last year, and it is now fairly easy for me to pick up any language with the right amount of learning time.
It's not so much the age of exposure that's important, but the level of interest that is. If someone wants
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Moreover, the people who might otherwise have pointed out that "yeah, he's right, I tried learning computers at college and I failed miserably" aren't likely to be around these parts of the net.
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Of course some of the more advanced aspects of both language and programming require a background that most or all children won't have, partly due to time constraints. But if the fu
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Never? You mean, not once did you ever write a dinky little game or implement a formula on your graphing calculator, or look at the code for gorillas.bas, or write a DOS batch script? Frankly, I find that hard to believe, considering that you're posting on Slashdot.
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do children need to code anyway? And why do they need to use a computer? Isn't it better to teach them to think, and other basics such as reading, writing, and maths?
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:4, Insightful)
I am continually AMAZED at how POORLY (in general) educated kids are in computers when the graduate college with a CS degree. Seems like all they have at that point is a basic ability to think, but they don't (again in general) know jack shit about computers, or have the team-work skills either. Yes there are exceptions - typically I have found them to be the type who has had strong interest in HOW things work their entire life, and have been self-teaching well beyond standard course material. The exceptions that only found interest in college seem to be MUCH more rare.
Just how rare are they? Well, typically I get about 300 - 500 applicants for a position, and usually only ONE is *really* good - it's rare to have more. Frequently we don't even find that one, but end up hiring someone anyway. It's been that way for the past 10 years at least.
IMHO, high schools SHOULD offer some type of internals / programming / networking instruction. Hell, they have wood and auto shop, music and art, why not computers? Why should one of the most important tools (computing) for the future of business / industry be left out?
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I would agree that as far as the third world is concerned this may in fact be the XO-1. As far as kids in the USA, UK or anywhere else in the developed world an X-term off the family server does the job equally well. I have a few of them booting diskless and can add in a new one in about 5 mins. As a result the kid can sit down and use any of the comp
Teaching programming at a university (Score:2)
Yes and No. (Score:2)
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It's a tool, like a pencil and paper / books are tools. Do they NEED them, like they need water and air? No, but with them they will have the ability to explore and learn outside the classroom environment, and use them to facilitate / enhance education inside the classroom environment.
Keep in mind that the target for these machines is countries with poor formal edu
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Those who can't, teach. [snopes.com]
Money and better information. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:4, Interesting)
US education has more to fear from ill considered education reforms than a lack of technology. That said, my experience is different with respect to "today's kids". In my state (ed reform is state based) they are much better educated even than kids of my post-Sputnik days, particularly in mathematics.
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:4, Insightful)
BTW, the 2 places that I described as needing these kinds of computers (inner city and rural), really are behind times. As I pointed out elsewhere, they have limited 486's and still use maps with USSR. And as to kids being better at mathematics, I trust that you are kidding. In freshman high school, I was doing calc, along with other kids. While we were a little bit advanced, nearly all the kids came out of school with decent algebra under their belts. Now, American kids can not even return correct change from a buck without the use of a cash register. Algebra? Please.
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not kidding. Look, I happen to know that learning calculus as a ninth grader is no big deal. I taught myself Calculus, because it wasn't even offered by my school. It was not typical then for kids in the ninth grade to be ready for Calculus then, any more it is now. More importantly, it is not a particularly impressive or important accomplishment to learn calculus in the ninth grade. Any sufficiently motivated parent can transform a moderately talented child into a "prodigy" capable of doing all kinds of mathematical parlor tricks above his age level. I've seen it happen, and by in large these "prodigies" don't grow into a population of adults that contribute more to society than others of their general talent level.
It is not so important that kids learn things early so much as they learn them well.
The Achilles' heel of ed reform in math is that it often addresses the wrong question. The most important question is not how much math kids can do, so much as the amount of math they understand. It's one thing to be able to perform in an integration bee, it's another thing to be able to think in terms of applied math. In my state, kids in middle school are way ahead of where most high schoolers were in my day in being able to translate everyday problems into mathematical terms. Of course, your state may be different than mine. Remember: ed reform is state based. The Republican educational reform model is broken: it demands "tough standards" but it's quasi "states rights" ideology means those standards cannot have any Federally mandated (or apparently even recommended) content. Thus "education reform" might mean teaching creationism in Kansas or keeping maps of the Soviet Union in place in Colorado (so far as I know).
With respect to 486s -- I'd rather have kids with 486s, the Logo language, and a good teacher than the latest quad core processor, electronic flash cards and an apathetic teacher. Of course this is a false dichotomy, but the point I'm making is that of all the factors involved, the quality of the curriculum and its implementation far outweigh the level of tech.
Different societies, different tools (Score:2)
They each knew the tools relevant for their society, which were three quite different set of tools. Todays kids needs to master a fourth set of tools.
There are commonalities in their education, they probably all knew who Homer was, and the basic structure of the Iliad. But Descartes knowledge of Calculus would be quite insuffici
Re:I agree with a number of points (Score:5, Interesting)
My state is Massachusetts. I did not bring it up, because it automatically brings up a lot of extraneous political issues.
It is not correct to say that ed reform is unambiguously working in Massachusetts. In some areas, such as social sciences, the results are not satisfactory. Ed reform has a number of negative impacts on the quality of education, including, I believe, unhealthy amounts of homework. There are now serious and challenging curricular requirement in Kindergarten, and Kindergarten students are being assigned homework. The state is beginning to talk about curricular requirements in preschool and even as a condition of licensing family day care providers. Many schools are cutting out arts education and sports in order to maximize their performance scores.
These, in my opinion, aren't positive developments.
However in math, the program is the most successful component of the reforms. First, we were early in on the ed reform process, our reforms starting in 1993, seven years ahead of most of the country. Also, when tests are introduced, schools teach to the tests. I've looked at some of the questions in the test MA requires to graduate high school, and their is considerable emphasis on mathematical thinking, which I think is a very good thing to teach. Thought is required to set up the solution of the problem, which is as mechanically challenging as any reasonable person could wish.
The vast majority of adults in the general population would most frequently fail at either the conceptual or mechanical aspects of the problems. More likely both. Provided that the students retain the abilities needed to pass the test, requiring all students to have them is clearly an advance in general mathematical education. It seems likely to me that a program balanced between mathematical thinking and mathematical mechanics will result in higher retention than programs which are exclusively based on being able to perform a collection of algorithms when prompted.
Many of the mechanical skills of arithmetic are introduced at about the same pace as they were in the 60s, or maybe a bit faster. Geometry is more integrated into the curriculum earlier, going back to foundations introduced at the K and 1 level, and really in earnest by the fifth grade. Also, much greater emphasis is put on word problems. Converting word problems into solution plans is taught in parallel with reading, right from Kindergarten (most kids are reading when they enter first grade). Considerable conceptual content is covered all along the way laying the foundations for algebra. This content becomes recognizably algebraic by the fifth grade, although still within the context of a general "math" subject.
There is training on skills that my generation was supposed to pick up on its own. For example, children in my kids' elementary school are drilled in estimating correct answers, as well as producing them algorithmically. Finally these math skills are consciously put to use in the science and technology curriculum, through projects like rocketry or bridge design and testing.
Overall, I don't care if the kids don't see a lick of calculus until they are college, so long as they can find a use for the mechanics of calculus by the time they get out of college. That said, most students would, in my opinion, be well prepared for a strong introductory course by the time they are juniors in high school, not that that is so important. What matters most in mathematics is the strength of the foundation, not the height of the edifice.
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Pah, you guys get everything dirt cheap compare to other countries - welcome to our pain. It's not for nothing that it's always joked that when companies sell in the UK they use a 1:1 GBP/USD exchange rate effectively doubling the cost of everything. As an e.g.
Vista Ultimate $400 (US)/$555 (UK)
PS3 $500/$600
Photoshop $650/$852
iMac 20inch $1200/$1500
OK, not doubled but you get the idea...
Goes both ways (Score:2)
But if companies are charging the same price, that is silly. You can easily buy from dollars based store off the net and pay half the price.
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Sometimes but then you need to add import duty, VAT, processing charges etc which bumps it up again unless your parcel manages to slip through. Certainly back in the day I used to buy most of my laserdiscs and DVDs from the US & Canada. Some firms kindly used to take off the wrappers, seals etc and mark the goods as second hand which reduced this a lot but good old Customs & Excise got wise to that.
The most annoying
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Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think the problems with Western education systems are caused by a lack of computers, or even a lack of any kind of resource.
The problems we have are caused by the attitudes of many of the parents and students and the lack of a stable and sound education policy and curriculum. Politicians and voters in the West are easily fooled by the money + good intentions = results equation, which is consistently failing to work. In the developing world, on the other hand, where the bottleneck is a lack of re
Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing . (Score:2)
NO NO NO (Score:2)
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they just don't get it (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:they just don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
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I know, I've worked many years in the non-profit sector. We'd have loved nothing better than to do our programs at zero cost, but the bottom line is that life in a non-profit enterprise is much like life in a for profit -- except much more consensus oriented (too many nice people in one place).
So, you must sell these things at higher than your cost.
Now it is time for the Accountant's Koan: W
Price positioning (Score:2, Interesting)
Donation? Feed the kids first... (Score:2)
Personally, I do my giving through an organization that provides food, medical care, education. There's far too much poverty in the world to go around handing out laptops. Malnourished and sick children are going to have a hard time concentrating in computer class.
For the price of these two computers a person can sponsor a child through World Vision [worldvision.org] for a year, and it's tax-deductible.
Re:Donation? Feed the kids first... (Score:4, Insightful)
The laptops aren't intended for places where there's a lack of food; they're intended to help build nations where roads, electricity, and food are taken care of.
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IMO, these computers are the tools they will need to understand and work with the rest of the world. Maybe even give them directions on where to go and get food. (Hmmm... what a concept... food doesn't grow at my house either, but I do know how to go get it.)
Bill
Very dissapointed. (Score:2)
Re:Very dissapointed. (Score:5, Interesting)
IMO, Americans could do with far more such selflessness these days.
What would be really great in my opinion is if the two laptops were somehow registered such that the kids can get to know each other
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I'd love that concept, except that there is little assurance that the laptop will end up on the desk of another kid. I know thats the intent, but we all know some of these things will find their way to eBay or elsewhere. H
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Actually 70% of American households give at least $1800 per year, that is more than most countries.
http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2005/May/10-36789.html [state.gov]
According to this USA Today article Americans give more than twice of the next most charitable country.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm [usatoday.com]
Maybe EVERYONE could do with far more selflessness...
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Oh, yeah, there's nothing like the Internet for peaceful and enlightened communication.
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It's Thanksgiving here! We're having a big feast later today, with enough food to feed 3 families! What's new with you?
Jimmy"
"Dear Jimmy,
I had a feast just yesterday. We ate some leaves and drank tan water. Much better than the brown water we normally drink.
By the way, you have the same last name as a contractor my father was doing business with. The contractor died before being paid and my father says there is $7.4 million dollars that can be withdrawn only by someone with the same
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I will be purchasing one for my son for Christmas, and I find it absolutely brilliant that I will be purchasing one for an impoverished child in the third-world as well. Is that not the entire gist behind the "Christmas Season?" Or is it simply crass materialism?
The only thing that I would like to see is a way to sort of "follow"
Asus EEE pc (Score:2)
Only real advantage the olpc still has imho is the swiveling screen.
http://event.asus.com/eeepc/ [asus.com]
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Re:Asus EEE pc (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait! Wait! This is confusing! (Score:5, Funny)
We're getting a $100 laptop for free when we pay $399 for two?!
Luckily both weren't for free, or we would have to pay $799!
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Lets say it's the marketing overhead for making them both free with a hefty price that gobbles up the extra buck.
EBay (Score:4, Insightful)
What about Europe? (Score:5, Informative)
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If you look at the interface its designed for the 7-9 year old. I like what they are doing with the interface. It's a radical departure from the standard GUI and I hope it works.
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Why would you WANT to buy them? I can think of only three valid reasons:
1. No other computers are practically available where you live
2. You have a philanthropic desire to aid those in category #1
3. You crave the "geek cred" of owning a rare and unique device
If you're just looking for a general-purpose computer to own and use, this is not the best choice for you. You'll get similar performance out of a 6-year-old Xbox.
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Plus, if I accidentally throw it off a cliff in a drunken rage, then another damned kid gets another damned laptop. I consider this a huge advantage over my old laptop (may she rest in peace).
The theory (Score:3, Funny)
Each laptop should come with free samples of Lithium, Prozac, and Ritalin -- plus an instruction guide for developing ADD/ADHD and avoiding contact with girls.
Stop bitching about the price of the OLPC (Score:2, Insightful)
It's about their future, not the price ... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it's about price (for most) (Score:2, Interesting)
Programs like this look good on paper, but don't take typical human behaviour into account.
Maintainence (Score:2)
I'm a dreadful cynic and I hope I'm wrong...
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Geeks clearly aren't cut out for this post apocalypse lark.