Making a Buck Online - Without Ads 160
A New York Times article hosted by C|Net looks at the unique position of the Consumer Reports website; they're one of the few online resources that gets by completely on subscription fees. They have no ads. One key seems to be valuing their online readers as much as their print readers - and charging both the same amount. "The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times tried charging for some online content, then abandoned the practice. For a decade, however, Consumer Reports has charged Internet readers the same price as print subscribers, currently $26 a year (or $5.99 for a month's online access or $45 a year to get the magazine both in print and on the Web). While the rest of the industry sees print readers as more valuable--because advertisers do--Consumer Reports actually makes more money from readers on its Web site, because it avoids printing, trucking, and mailing costs."
Reputation counts too (Score:5, Interesting)
Content helps too (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Reputation counts too (Score:5, Insightful)
News articles, on the other hand, are essentially stories. I like to read them, but I read them with my morning coffee on the couch. Newspapers nowadays have lost their reputation for relevance and timeliness (typically by chasing ad revenue with sensationalist stories rather than by doing real investigative journalism) and so while they are interesting and amusing, they are not worth paying for.
Subscription journals, on the other hand, I will still pay for, just like I would pay for Consumer Reports.
Re:Reputation counts too (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Reputation counts too (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. I signed up for CR online when I was looking to buy a new cars in 2006 (and still had it when I bought another in 2007). To find the right car for me I spent the $30 to help read up on the cars I was interested in. It helped. I was able to read up on the past history of the cars, like the Toyota Corolla, and find it had a long history of excellent reviews. I was also able to knock a few cars off my list, like the Chevy Aveo, which had a recall in 2006/7 (I forget what year). Despite both cars having similar gas milage, the Aveo was a much smaller car (something my fiancee, who's French, felt more comfortable with given her European cars) with not as good reviews. In America, given the average size of a car is much larger, I felt safer with her having a slightly bigger car and she's adjusted to the size difference, given that roads here are also much larger.
That small amount of money I wrote off as part of the cost of a proper new-car purchase. And what's $45 when you're spending $15,000? However, I have no reason to continue until there's some other big name purchase I want to do so I canceled. I'll pick up their magazine at the gym when I see one laying around. I also found it more difficult than expected to cancel my account with CR.
Cheers,
Fozzy
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I do get the occasional email, maybe three times since canceling last year, asking me to re-subscribe.
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I never had a problem canceling, but (like I said) I found it more difficult than expected. I expected to just log into my online account and find a some sort of "big red cancel me" button. Something akin to canceling your membership to an online game such as WoW. What I did find was a few clicks to find out I had to call in to cancel my online
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It's worth checking out. A very similar ethos to Consumer Reports... only the subscriber matters.
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I thought so... (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought so, too. Then I read this [consumerreports.org] review of the EEE PC. I was with them right up until this bit:
First, what does "more advanced tasks" actually mean? I could use an EEE PC for programming, ssh access, and, I'm sure, many other things that this reviewer has never heard of.
Second, and most important: Why the fuck are they recommending Windows Vista? I was curious, so I found this othe [consumerreports.org]
Target group for review (Score:5, Insightful)
> access, and, I'm sure, many other things that this reviewer has never heard of.
And neither has the intended target audience for the review (or for the EEE PC).
> I'm not claiming the situation is good for Linux gaming. But to claim there are no sophisticated
> games for it, even if we're all willing to ignore Wine/Cedega, is factually untrue. By "factually
> untrue", I mean it's in the realm of 2+2=5. Even for very large values of 2, that statement is
> wrong, and always will be.
It refers to the kind of games the self-declared gamers want to use a box for, rather than the kind of games the intended audience is interested in (flash games, solitaire).
The statement is factually untrue in the sense that "the world is round" is a factually untrue statement in the context of people who believe in a flat Earth (since, to the nerd, only a mathematically perfect sphere would qualify as "round").
Congratulation, you have discovered that consumer report is not written for nerds with autistic tendencies.
> this whole Slashdot article is about them making a buck online, so are they even nonprofit?
Yes, non-profit is a legal term that doesn't involve giving away stuff for free.
And "expert" can also refer to the ability to explain complicated stuff in terms ordinary people can understand.
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Self-declared gamers don't like Doom3 or Quake4? Self-declared gamers aren't eagerly awaiting the next Unreal games? And I know plenty of self-declared gamers that liked NWN.
There's a big difference between "Won't find" and "Won't find many". One is true, one is not.
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If you think someone coming to you and saying "I'm a big gamer, what computer should I buy?", and you answering "Oh, you should install Linux, it plays all the cutting edge games!" is in any way NOT wrong or bad advice, I think we can all agree you're not anywhere near as competent at distilling advanced technical knowledge as you think you are.
Everything you've quoted from CR is correct. I'm sorry if y
Re:Target group for review (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what's known as a strawman argument.
No, if someone came to me with that question, I'd suggest building their own, or buying a Dell (NOT Alienware), and putting XP on it. But people don't come to me with that question, they come to me with questions like "So I hear you're into Linux, should I use that for myself?" And the first thing out of my mouth is not "yes", but "What do you use a computer for?"
If, at any point, they mention some Windows-specific program, or that they're into gaming, I'll point out that they are going to need Windows, so the best they can hope for is dual-boot.
Actually, the most frequent question is "Can you fix my computer?" Second most frequent is "How do I stay secure online?" And while it's unlikely that I'll answer that without mentioning Linux, it's also unlikely that I'll recommend they switch -- I just let them know that if they do decide to switch, I'll be willing to walk them through it.
Bullshit, this is the Internet. Even if they don't have space, they can link back to Wikipedia or something. But like I said, I wasn't looking for "page after page". I was looking for some simple accuracy -- things like "Most games won't work with Linux."
That one's an ad-hominim attack, right there with your suggestion that I'm autistic (I'm not).
I develop HD-DVDs for a living. The very existence of my current job, and company, is dependent on Microsoft, and I have not, yet, been able to use Linux at work, even as a VM host -- nor have I spent a ton of time trying. I am not, by any means, a zealot.
Even if you're arguing Windows is the most optimal choice -- and I don't even want to get into that tired flamewar -- are you actually deluded enough to think Vista is a better choice than XP for those users?
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Re:I thought so... (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because you think Linux/Mac should be mentioned in glowing praise next to every mention of Vista doesn't make it so. The point of Consumer Reports is to review things, not advertise the competitors to those things.
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Re:I thought so... (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, I rarely use Consumer Reports for anything having to do with computers or software, because I can get more reliable expert opinions elsewhere.
NOTE: I'm offering this comment based upon my personal experience with Vista (I eventually went back to XP) and my interactions with hundreds of computer professionals whose opinions I have come to trust. I do not hate Microsoft. I might hate Steve Ballmer, but mostly because he is a sweaty friggin' maniac. I do love how he dances to "Safety Dance" though.
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Why? Lots of people on Slashdot are willing to come up and state they like Vista, and while I personally don't use it I have used it in the past and could find nothing overtly objectionable about it. So, I'll ask again: why, when discussing Vista, does the concept of independent thought cease to exist, and instead anyone saying anything positive gets labelled as being paid by Microsoft? The article is from Consumer Reports, for christ's sake, widely held as putting independence and integ
Re:I thought so... (Score:5, Informative)
Granted, I waited until 6 months or so after the launch to get it.
I don't see a compelling reason for most people to move to Vista, but I haven't experienced a compellign reason not to yet either.
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Re:I thought so... (Score:4, Interesting)
Then I went to copy her mail form outlook express to windows mail. I moved the proper files over from the other computer, and loaded windows mail. I pointed it to the files, and it spat out "file in use, or wrong file type" or some other such BS. I tried saving the DB in different formats etc. Eventually I discovered that what this error really meant was "Windows mail can't import user data as a user. Please re-run this program as administrator" why the fuck couldn't they just say that?
My experience with that box has continued in a similar vein. The computer is as slow as her old box, yet has 4 times the memory and at least that many times the processing power. I find it simply inconcievable anyone could run this OS.
That aside, people do. Smart people too, so there must be more to this equation. I'm not really sure what it is, but this polarized opinion is confusing.
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That said, I'm refraining from installing my MSDN licensed Vista Business because of horror stories from users with Nforce 4-based m
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Yeah, sure, they must be either ignorant or on the take. Or, just possibly, it means that for most people, Vista is working just fine, and that if you are buying a new computer today and aren't a nerd, it is the best option to ensure new devices and software will be supported in the coming years.
Seems like reasonable advice. (Score:2)
That's pretty clear.
What CR is saying is that if you're smart enough to ask that question, then you should get a better laptop. That is pretty self-evident.
Theit advice is decent for people who are not knowledgeable about computers. It's like if you were buying a washer/dryer. You might not know much, so you just want honest advice that will suit you, not cost too much, and not get you a piece of junk.
If tht's not worth $20-40 a year, I don't know wh
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Which also seems dead wrong.
You see, I have a much better laptop, and I'm still wanting an eeepc.
Except they recommend Vista.
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For the average person who shops at the local Fry's, takes work home, would like to use a browser, email, etc etc, and doesn't want to spend a lot of money, what do you recommend as a good choice? Keep in mind, it has to be able to be purchased from Costco, Circuit City,
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And why, exactly, can't Consumer Reports recommend shopping online?
EEE PC, or the very same laptop you were going to suggest, but with XP. It's not that they recommend Windows, but that they recommend Vista.
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Except for computers. As another child poster says, they're writing for a different audience than the typical
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Have you ever seen the threads about women around here?
CR not good for high tech (Score:2)
I've also seen them make major errors in their explanation of high tech appliances. About a CD burn
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I know exactly what you're talking about because i remember going "WTF?" after reading the same thing. So I researched it, and sure enough it was correct -- the device they were reviewing was a turntable->CD device for converting old records to CD, and could be hooked up via USB to a computer as well. And yes, if you used it to make multiple co
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XP. (Score:2)
Never mind that I think they're wrong in their Linux comparison -- they actually recommend buying a dual-core Vista laptop if the EEE PC isn't enough as-is. The sheer number of options between those, even in Windows...
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No, it offers four.
There are 6 Editions, Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, Starter and Enterprise.
Or, if you consider x64 versions to be a different version. (no 64 bit Starter)
Plus the 'N' Editions, for some countries. Making up to 21 possible Editions for a given country.
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There's a difference between experts who make recommendations for other experts, and experts who make recommendations for casual users. CR has never pretended to care about anyone other than the average person looking for a good deal. I have yet to see any criticism of CR in the past decade (other than clear factual mistakes that CR corrected) that
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Well, that's why they publish a whole article that goes with the recommendations. They don't just say "hey, everyone, buy this model", they detail why they liked one better than the other. Obviously if you have different priorities, then you won't agree with their conclusions, but the discussion still gives you a lot of information to base your own
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Their goal is to provide useful reviews for most people.
Yeah, sad as it is for me to say that. To name a recent example in my memory, how many errors are there in the South Park episode "Make Love, not Warcraft" even though they worked closely with Blizzard to make it? The last local news TV clip about my workplace that I appeared in wasn't completely factual either, not that I had any say in it :(.
Maybe someone can explain why reality always has to be "prettied" up to me someday. I despise TV and TV mentality.
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That's why I mentioned Neverball, Neverwinter Nights, and Wesnoth.
No genre is represented well, but even if they aren't a fan of the FPS, it's damned sloppy to ignore them, or to use such a vague term as "Sophisticated 3D games."
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And why not?
Isn't installing XP on an EEE PC a decent way to save money? Doesn't it at least deserve mention?
Who said anything about teaching them to install an OS, anyway? They certainly mention things like upgrading from XP to Vista without "teaching them" how
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I'm not an MS fanboy, but XP gets the job done. If I could use my Linux desktop to do my work efficiently and without "mystery menus" whose feature has yet to be coded, then I would.
Right now, as a computer elitist (yes, a performance freak), I still see Linux as a rock-solid server OS, but a "toy" desktop, mostly because Xorg is still the backwards cesspool that X has always been. It's pretty sad when I have to say the
When did you last look? (Score:2)
And I have to say, it's pretty good when Xorg and the Ubuntu installers do so much for me that even I barely have to touch Xorg. The one time I can remember touching it since Ubuntu is enabling some stuff for Beryl to work, and I don't use Beryl anymore.
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The day Linux is worth using for the average Joe, is the day I'll start rooting for it.
For mail and internet that day was over a decade ago.
...)
(With apologies to Joseph Heller
Hello Ma'am, I'd like to purchase a computer without an operating system or running Linux.
I'm sorry Sir. We can't do that. You must buy a comuter with Microsoft Windows on it.
Why is that? I don't want to run Microsoft Windows? Besides it should be cheaper for you to provide me with a computer without any software licensing involved.
I'm sorry Sir. We can't do that. There's a catch.
A catch?
Yes, Sir. Catch-22. We
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To the average computer user? No. It isn't supported, and most computer users need a 1-800 number to call when something goes wrong.
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Besides, what, exactly, is the problem with saying "You can do this, but it's not supported?"
What, are they trying to save money per word downloaded?
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I don't think in the history of CR, they've ever recommended anyone install an OS other than what came on the system as shipped by the OEM. Most people don't ever install anything other than the OS that shipped with the box.
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There fixed that for you.
Consumer Reports also has a reputation
At one time or another, I've subscribed to all three of the dead tree versions of Consumer Reports, LA Times, and NY Times.
The LA Times makes good fuel for burning Korean-owned stores the next time there's a riot. The NY Times has the world's finest daily Crossword Puzzle. Consumer Reports is a balanced, fair survey of products for sale and is sold at a cost below the value of the information you get in return if you're making a major purchase.
The article i
Consumer reports MUST be standalone (Score:5, Insightful)
How good would it be if this edition of Consumer Reports (and its special report on Car safety) was brought to you in association with Ford?
Re:Consumer reports MUST be standalone (Score:4, Funny)
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Independence (Score:3, Insightful)
While it would be nice if others were, I think I prefer paying less, and reading some ads.
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I would rather pay money for useful information than get useless, biased, advertiser-influenced information free. I pay $100 a year for the Wall Street Journal, and about $600 a year for a bunch of science and professional magazines, because I want solid information, not the same AP or Reuters story 35 times over on Google News.
My time is too valuable to waste reading junk (with the possible exception of Slashdot).
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I'm not sure how useful it would be, though. Consumer Reports doesn't use advertising because they need to be impartial. Subscribers have to pay, but they get the guarantee that Consumer Reports isn't selling out. But most online newspapers would still be selling out to advertisers, they just wouldn't be showing the ads to subscribers.
Given that, I'd rather get the news for free and use ad-block.
Re:Independence (Score:4, Insightful)
However, independence has the implication that they are not being paid to say something. Now, some of the things CR says [slashdot.org] make me wonder if they're either paid to say it, or are complete morons. But the idea is what counts.
Today, I had a long talk with my dad about what he does. I'd been talking a lot about my new job, so I wanted to hear more about what he does. His company -- two corporations, actually, so they can legally do both stocks and commodities, but it's the same people -- they're, well, a financial company. As in, you can bring them a big pile of money, and they'll invest it, and you get to involve yourself at varying levels. One of the things that came out in that discussion was, he provides two options for payment -- either a commission, or a yearly payment.
Well, he recommends the yearly payment, even if it might (sometimes) cost a bit more. It's better for him, obviously, because the company then gets a stable income in the form of regular checks. But it also provides some assurance to the customer that there's never any motivation for a trade other than because it will benefit the customer.
That is, if there's a commission, a broker might encourage a lot more trades than the client wants or needs, because it generates commissions. If there's no commission, you'd think it encourages doing less, to avoid work, and that's partially true. But it also means that the motivation for everything they do is to make money for their customers, so they stay customers, and because of how powerful word of mouth is in that industry.
So yes, I would pay for Consumer Reports, and I'd pay more for that independence. Except that after reading their articles on various software, I'd never be able to shake the feeling that they were screwing me over with their other recommendations -- that their car recommendations, for instance, might sound as laughable to a mechanic as their software recommendations sound to me.
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What?! Why? If they offer you an ethical way to remove ads and provide them with payment for the service, you specifically try to avoid using it? Makes no (ethical) sense.
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Ethically, why am I obligated to view their ads?
Now, I do have a rule about Adblock: I don't download anyone else's list, I build my own. And I don't block any ads that don't animate, I don't even care if it's a static flash ad. But as soon as they animate, they're gone.
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No doubt they would. Does it really surprise you to think that a professional auto mechanic would have different priorities in their car purchase than a typical suburban housewife who doesn't know where the dipstick is? Does it really surprise you that the typical slashdot reader has different priorities when evaluating software than the typical AOL user? It doesn't make their e
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I wouldn't ask a professional auto mechanic about the kind of car they'd buy. I'd ask them whether the car I was looking to buy was a good car.
It's not a
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Then it sounds like you're right in line with CR, that's their point of view as well.
It's not about priorities. Recommending Windows Vista to the typical AOL user? In what way is that a good idea? What priorities would you have to have for that to ever be a good idea?
It's a good idea if they're buying a computer today that they expect to have supported by all their n
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So what professional did they ask here?
You're assuming that Vista will be better than XP at some point in the next 5 years, or before they buy their next upgrade.
In other words, you're assuming it isn't the new Windows ME.
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They don't ask a single professional, they do even better and evaluate vehicles primarily on overall mechanical reliability as documented over the model lifetime, as well as manufacturer's overall reliability, average cost of repairs, maintenance intervals, etc. That's what any responsible mechanic would do if he had access to the same data.
You're assuming that Vista will be better than XP at some point in the next 5 years, or before they buy their next upgrade.
I'm not
Curious (Score:4, Informative)
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I've always wondered about ad effectiveness (Score:2)
Exactly how effective is online advertising anyway? How many of you have seen an ad for something on a web page and thought "Fantastic! I must click this."
My brain just edits them out anymore - it's the white noise of the internet to me.
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micropayments (Score:2)
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Because now all of online payments are tied into your personal credit card and personal info. With identity theft, malware/spyware, etc., people are very leery about putting in a credit card number at every other website. If there was an anonymous credit/debit card with a 10 dollar value, people would be more inclined to pay 50 cents here and there for some extra content. If it was compromised, you be out 10 bucks, and that's it.
Do yo
PayPal Virtual Debit Card (Score:3, Informative)
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I called T-mobile to complain about the 15 cent charge for a text message, which they sent to confirm they activated the phone; my real reason for calling was to test their customer service quality within the 15 day return period, but I was also annoyed that they would incur an extra fee during the activation process; it was automatically credited back by the time the bill came...
But, how much money does a Customer Service call cost them?, how much w
What's wrong with PayPal? (Score:2)
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And that is the problem! Why would I want to pay for something if half of it's going to go to PayPal?
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings (Score:3, Insightful)
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I offer this as my experience only.
No ads, how about no registration? (Score:2, Insightful)
I remember being frustrated at researching a purchase, only to find links to CR articles which I couldn't access. Sans web, I'd have forgotten about CR, or if I remembered, might not have bothered subscribing because the information I wanted was in a back issue, and libraries are free.
What I'd really like to see is a study or report on ad
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Stick it to the Customer? (Score:3, Interesting)
If I were an "about to commit" customer, and I have thought about becoming one recently, this would put me off, I would like a good share of the savings passed on to me.
One simple solution:
Print subscription comes with (either a CD version or) an online account, online version is stand alone.
I am sure there must be better possibilities. But if they're happy...
all the best,
drew
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If they were making a higher
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Why do you assume I assume that? I don't.
But as a customer who is also a business man and who comes from a couple generations of the same, I can decide where to take my business based on the parameters I decide on.
Their pricing model would sway me not to do business with them. Do you take issue with my right or any other potential customer's right to use such information in making their buying decisions?
I do not take issue with yours. It
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Ok, how about $10 per month, but you can only access each article once?
Now would you be happy? The benefit for the online customer is more content, more timely content and you can acce
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Why in the world would you go for that deal? I wouldn't. Does the print version come with any such restriction?
all the best,
drew
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The print version gets you dead trees issues which last as long as the dead trees last. But only the issues put out since you subscribed.
The online version gets you access to their d
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Where did I ever make any such claim?
"The print version gets you dead trees issues which last as long as the dead trees last. But only the issues put out since you subscribed.
The online version gets you access to their database of past reviews."
Here you make a good point which might make me reconsider the deal. Congrats, the first one to try and make a case based on a bene
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I think you're going about it all wrong.
You should be asking yourself "Is the information they provide worth $xx a month to me?" If it is, sign up. If it's not, go with someone else. The only reason they charge what they do is because it's worth it for so many people. They don't have an obligation to "pass the savings on". Especially not when enough people are willing to pay the current price.
That's not Consumer Reports "sticking it to the customer", that's just the way businesses do things.
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You should be asking yourself "Is the information they provide worth $xx a month to me?" If it is, sign up. If it's not, go with someone else."
I will decide who to do business with based on what I like thank you very much.
I might very well chose to not go with the guys providing the best deal because I know they are jerks or I know they are actively trying to ruin my community or any other number of reasons besides the simple is this the best price I can get for this
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Don't get me wrong. I don't really care how you make purchasing decisions. I was just pointing out that they're not "sticking it to customers", because most customers don't feel entitled like that. I probably didn't need to be so condescending about it, but too late now.
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I also understand that these guys are seen by many as the good guys. Fine. I understand that a lot of people like to tell others how business operates. Well, business men can operate how they like within the bounds of the law, but a Free Market takes buyers as well as sellers. Us buyers have a say in the game as well.
We don't have to put up with shoddy treatment while there exist alternatives. And even
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In your estimation, the online deal is more valuable than the print deal? Do you see any drawbacks vis a vis the print deal?
all the best,
drew
Gouging online readers (Score:2)
CR Online is worth much more than print version. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why (Score:2)
It is because people know who Consumer Reports is and they can trust them to give honest reviews of products. And price is well worth it to keep them from making the wrong buying decision.
And so do we... (Score:2)
Free competition (Score:2)
Consumer Reports doesn't have much competition at all, let alone free competition, so they can get away with charging.
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-Mike
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