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Banned From Kickstarter For Being Cyberstalked 382

An anonymous reader writes "Rachel Marone has been a victim of cyberstalking for over 10 years. In 2011, she had a project on Kickstarter shut down because of the high volume of spam posted by the stalker in the comment section of the project. Recently, Marone's manager spoke to Kickstarter again to see how she could avoid having a new project banned if the cyberstalker showed up again. They replied, 'If there is any chance that Rachel will receive spam from a stalker on her project, she should not create one. We simply cannot allow a project to become a forum for rampant spam, as her past project became. If this happens again, we will need to discard the project and permanently suspend Rachel's account.' On her website, Marone sums up the situation thus: 'I am being told that I cannot crowdfund because I am a stalking victim. ... With so many women being stalking targets this does not seem reasonable to me.'"
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Banned From Kickstarter For Being Cyberstalked

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  • by Slartibartfast ( 3395 ) <ken@nospAm.jots.org> on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:24AM (#39684561) Homepage Journal

    While I hate to resort to tit-for-tat tactics, the obvious answer here is to spam all the founders' accounts.

    Because, quite simply, that's 100% undiluted B.S.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:43AM (#39684703)
      I was thinking, "What a great opportunity to help the world out... run her project, and use the comments to help track down the shitbag that's stalking her by turning over the server logs and everything you collect on a Kickstarter user." Way to turn a pr boost into a bad repuation, Kickstarter. :p
    • by TheLink ( 130905 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:52AM (#39684793) Journal
      A single stalker can shutdown a project because of spam? Either it's a false story or kickstarter has a crappy system.

      If it's really true I'm sure 4chan and gang might have a fun time shutting down ALL the kickstarter projects.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:16AM (#39684943)

        That may be the best option. If you show how easy the system is to abuse, they'll have no choice but to change the system.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's easy for an individual with enough time on their hands to create multiple accounts and spam away. Use proxies, cafes, Wifi and Tor to avoid IP bans. It's the price of online freedom.

        • by QuasiSteve ( 2042606 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:36AM (#39685081)

          It's easy for an individual with enough time on their hands to create multiple accounts and spam away.

          If the person was using the link to send the project creator a message directly, yes.
          Personally I don't see why that link even exists.

          But all comments on the comment pages and in project updates can only be placed by backers. You can only become a backer by pledging at least $1. Payment is processed through Amazon, which uses credit cards.

          Now, would this really deter a determined stalker? No, probably not. But at some point, buying $10 throw-away credit cards each time you'd get booted off has got to become tedious, and expensive, at some point and certainly puts up a barrier.

          Regardless, KickStarter is probably in a difficult position with this - they already can't check every single project in detail (the ones that collect $3M get a one-on-one webcam session, of course), so imagine if they'd have to verify claims about messages they get.

          That said - I highly doubt there was so much 'spam' that KickStarter had to intervene. Their system handles hundreds if not thousands of messages, status updates, pledges, etc. etc. every hour.

      • by rahlskog ( 2010302 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @04:00PM (#39688223)
        I was just thinking that she might just get 4chan/Anon on the job of hunting the stalker, they tend to like a good challenge. On the other hand it might just be 4chan/Anon doing this and then there is really nothing you can do about it.

        Funny world this is turning into where Anon is the solution and the cause of many problems. But I'd rather have a chaotic-neutral internet overlord than the lawful-evil corporate Lordship that uses the law to strangle us.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:54AM (#39684807)

      There is a really long thread on reddit.
      http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/s97g4/banned_from_kickstarter_for_being_a_stalking/

      I was pretty mad at first. A little more reading and now I think they did the right thing.

      • by CharlyFoxtrot ( 1607527 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:37AM (#39685087)

        OK so there's some speculation she might be a con artist. The project she claims was banned [rachelmarone.com] :

        "My client Rachel Marone ran a Kickstarter project called “Extreme Futurist Fest” in April 2011. She was banned because her cyberstalker posted 300 spam comments to her account. "

        did go through [kickstarter.com] apparently :

        "Extreme Futurist Festival 2011 aims to unite the most radical thinkers around the globe in the fields of science, medicine, transhumanism, cybernetics, artificial intelligence, neuroscience, hacking, philosophy, and the arts."

        So there's that.

        And people in the comments are complaining about being stiffed :

        "Apparently this is going on (http://rachelmarone.com/banned-from-kickstarter-for-being-a-stalking-victim.html), but there's no mention of this Kickstarter at all. I highly doubt we'll see anything soon."

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @11:07AM (#39685595)

      Rachel "Haywire" aka "Marone" aka "Mendelson" is a well known con artist, grifter and volcano of libel. She also collects an SSDI check for mental disability.

      Ms. Jaeger:

      It has come to my attention that Rachel Mendelson aka "Rachel Marone" aka "Rachel Haywire" aka "Transhuman X" may be allowed to use kickstarter again only 2 years after she took $3,000 with a fraudulent kickstarter effort. People are angrily posting on this page even as of a few months ago, and she has no plans to print the CD or to make any of the charitable contribution percentage she promised from this project. Please do not allow her to make any more kickstarter efforts, and defraud more people. Here is the page and the comments from people who never got their CD from her. By kickstarter's own rules, she should be required to return the donations at this point, not start a new fraudulent kickstarter campaign. She is very likely to start a new kickstarter account called 'Rachel Marone', be aware she is abusing kickstarter for financially fraudulent purposes.

      Here is the link to the project that never did anything but take money:

      http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/machinekuntrecords/sanity-is-slavery

      where you can see comments of complaint from its backers:

      "If you’re a backer of this project, please log in to read this post.
      3 of 4
      View Previous Comments

                      Fb_profile_picture.thumb
                      Erik Roy Tomren on September 26, 2011

                      so when is this coming out? the hard copy version, not the download.
                      1.thumb
                      Cat on February 24

                      It's a year after this posting, almost two years after this was funded, and I have yet to receive my hard copy of this album. Very displeased. :/
                      Fb_profile_picture.thumb
                      Steve Cross on March 15

                      Is the hard copy ever going to appear. A further update would be nice. I am not very happy!!

      "

  • by Hentes ( 2461350 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:25AM (#39684569)

    Now she got Slashdotted too.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:36AM (#39684663)

      Now she got Slashdotted too.

      Isn't that interesting?

      Looking at her websites and everything, she looks like one of those artsy people that would benefit incredibly from exposure. Actually, anyone doing any sort of business on the net needs exposure to get noticed.

      Over the last decade, I've become extremely cynical about things like this.

      If she were really getting threats and people were posting illegal things like child pornography as she said, then the cops would be involved to go after this guy and take him out. But no. Things are continuing for some reason and here she is getting all this free publicity and hits on her website.

      Read up on any of the "Gorilla Marketing" [amazon.com] type of books out there and you too will become cynical of any sort of public exposure.

      From her website:

      In my How Facebook Deleted My Ass article I discussed how my account was deleted because I was accused of impersonating myself.

      . I don't consider FB to be that credible either, but then again, I wonder what made them come to that conclusion?

      And if she is in fact truly being stalked, I blame the marketing people of the World for making public exposure of any sort a cheap way to market products, services, people, art, etc ...

      After all, we do live in a World where people actually burn themselves to death to bring attention to issues. [usatoday.com] What's a little cyber-stalking?

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:04AM (#39684871)

        This is really #1 question mark that pops up upon reading the story. Why is she not going to police with this? If it's such a clear cut case of long term stalking as she claims, it should be a no brainer to get police to look into it.
        This has a strong whiff of publicity stunt. She claims he's openly sending child pornography to multiple people and that "police/FBI won't investigate". Now I don't know where she lives, but considering current hysteria in the West about child pornography, I find this very hard to believe.

        Also, reading the stuff on the other site, she appears to actively engage in conversations with this stalker on her own. Very strange considering that police would recommend to not engage in any contact with such a stalker.

        This stinks of something big and important to the whole picture is being intentionally obfuscated by complaining party.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:41AM (#39685111)

            Ten years of "child porn and infant rape fantasies to hundreds of victims", and police "they tried and found no trails, he's too good we won't investigate"?

            Are you really that naive?

            • I'm not buying into it either.

              First, there's this claim [experimenthaywire.net] on her page:

              This guy has been after me for over a decade and is hiding in his basement to avoid being served with various restraining orders

              That's total BS. First, you can't "hide in your basement" for 10 years to avoid being personally served with a restraining order. Hire a better process server.

              Second, the police do take it seriously, especially if you have any information that can identify the person. It's how one of my cyber-stalkers ended up getting fired, despite being thousands of miles away.

              So, she knows the guy - and has a bit of history with him [reddit.com]. So I'm not convinced. Not when she's lied about other stuff (like claiming her past project was booted when it was actually funded).

              Then there's her complaint about Facebook.

              I am no longer allowed to go by my copyrighted pseudonym and thousands of people are now aware of my full first and last name.

              In other words, she created a fake Facebook profile and when she couldn't prove it was hers, they locked her out of it. If she's not happy with Facebooks' policies, there's a simple solution - don't use it. If your business depends on Facebook, you have bigger problems than some random cyber-stalker.

              As for Kickstarter, here's the way I see it. If they allow individuals to delete comments in a comment submission queue, then complaints will never be brought to the administrators' attention. So that's not going to work.

              But judging by this comment [slashdot.org] (and following the provided link verifies it on kickstarter [kickstarter.com]), since she's lying about her past project being banned by kickstarter whe it was actually funded, what else is she lying about?

              Bottom line - a liar, a publicity hound and a drama queen, with a co-dependency problem with her stalker (she needs the publicity as much as he needs to stalk), call the wambulance.

              • by Renraku ( 518261 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @12:02PM (#39686073) Homepage

                Restraining orders can be served in absentia if the party who is to be served is actively avoiding being served and the judge believes that. When the restraining order is broken, they'll arrest them, serve them with the restraining order, and if the infraction wasn't too severe, let them off with a warning since they weren't served before. If what they were doing was illegal anyway even without the retraining order, they'll be held in violation of it even though they didn't know about it.

        • I'm not sure what to believe. Perhaps no one? I have noticed a pattern here: The most trenchant criticisms are all posted by Anonymous Cowards. GP, who are you? Why should anyone believe anything you say? Why should anyone care?

          Could use some real journalism here, uncover the facts. Otherwise, all this is a waste of time.

      • by Tore S B ( 711705 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:35AM (#39685065) Homepage

        Guerrilla != gorilla. Man am I ever glad you don't work in a zoo.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:27AM (#39684583)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by houstonbofh ( 602064 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:53AM (#39684795)
      I think she is crowd sourcing this...
    • The solution is for the people/groups with kickstarter projects to suspend operations until the problem is fixed properly. You can't fight dick moves with dick moves without becoming a dick. Kickstarter's policy of punishing the victim is absurd and it shouldn't take much to point them in the right direction.

    • by arth1 ( 260657 )

      The solution is clear, start posting high volumes of messages on all the other projects for supporting kickstarter, an organization that clearly supports 'cyber bullying

      No, it is quite clear that they do not support cyber bullying, by refusing to provide a venue for it to continue in.

      Bullying them into accommodating the cyberstalker seems to me to be counterproductive. Working to stop the stalker might be more helpful for the victim, who could then cease being a victim and move on.

      But it's so nice to have someone to be outraged on behalf of, isn't it?

    • by canajin56 ( 660655 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @10:10AM (#39685281)
      That wouldn't work, because then ban people who spam like that. Like they did here, because SHE WAS THE ONE DOING IT TOO. Here's a sample

      "As you all know I have a rockin' tight ass, a successful project on Kickstarter that you've all funded, and a cyberstalker that goes by the name of FrankSinatraDirtyTalker1915@comcast.net.
      I originally met "Frank" back in College, where we dated for a bit. I should point out that he's not an old man, as his username might imply, but rather someone who is simply obsessed with Frank Sinatra and my gorgeous rockin hard ass.
      Anyway, when I broke up with him he took it pretty badly. It was our Sophomore year at Rice University and I had just discovered gravity bongs and going down on another girl while blazed out of my gord. As I've admitted, these were confusing albeit fun times for me.
      Meanwhile, "Frank" was raised as a Mormon but had recently converted to Scientology. I guess you might say he was experimenting with his own hallucinogenic homoerotic drug. This drug/sex/cult cocktail, combined with my round pulchritudinous derriere, and the sudden shock of losing his ability to play his daily role of dressing up as Dr. Parnassus while gently fondling my perky nipples and supple breasts that he had affectionately named the Merry Mammary Sisters of Nippopolis, and Queens of the Breastiary - led to Frank's complete mental breakdown.
      I don't blame Frank for my rockin body, just as I don't blame you for being attracted to my intelligence and funding my project on Kickstarter. However, what I do not like is being stalked. I hope you all do what I do when you see Frank's messages on any thread related to my project. Just lick your index finger, point it at Frank's username and then say, "Ooooooooooooo ICE COLD! Mama thinks you're a BAAAAD BOYYYY! OOOOOO Ice Cold..." then point the same finger back at your left nipple and make a sizzling sound "SSSSSssssssssssss" and sing this little rap
      Thank you all again for funding my project on Kickstarter. You're clearly invested in a winner!"

      They don't want her having her lovers' spat in their comment sections, assuming the other account isn't just her, trying to drum up attention by faking a stalker and then breaking enough Kickstarter rules by "fighting back" that she can get banned and then run to Reditt and Slashdot within seconds.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:31AM (#39684611)

    According to her she was banned by Facebook too. Methinks there is more behind this story.

  • the inability to comprehend the situation and the lack of enthusiasm in dealing with it in a forthright and efficient manner speaks volumes about kickstarters management culture. they sound like a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

    • Seriously, monitoring spam, tracking abuse, and permanently banning the stalker is such a bothersome task? Rachel could easily take KS to court for allowing predatory behavior. That'll put a serious spin on their own stupidity.
      • You're assuming the some legal recourse is possible. Most stalking laws don't have cover Spam like conduct they Threats of Violence and safty. In KS in perticular

        Intentionally or recklessly engaging in a course of conduct targeted at a specific person which would cause a reasonable person in the circumstances of the targeted person to fear for such person's safety, or the safety of a member of such person's immediate family and the targeted person is actually placed in such fear

        See 21-3438 [ks.gov]

        So unless the Spam Harrasment is threatening physical violence you need to perform a hat trick to get any legal action unless the harassment is physical violence.

  • Blame Game (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PastBlast ( 2617971 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:35AM (#39684647)
    Don't blame the website for not wanting to put up with your baggage. Blame the stalker. Take legal matters in your own hands and go after him/her.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Don't blame the website for not wanting to put up with your baggage. Blame the stalker. Take legal matters in your own hands and go after him/her.

      Its not HER FAULT. Anyone can stalk a person online or real life for whatever fucking twisted reason is going on in their head. Hell, you can even do it here and mod people down, etc. And taking matters to the law doesnt solve anything. They can just do it AC online. This is a site programming issue and should have been addressed as such. By their words and lack of fucking action all they are doing is "Slut Shaming" her and it has rightly backfired.

    • Don't blame the website for not wanting to put up with your baggage. Blame the stalker. Take legal matters in your own hands and go after him/her.

      And while she does that she's supposed to put her whole life on hold ? The wheels of justice don't turn that fast.

  • Why can't Kickstarter allow for projects to disable comments?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:44AM (#39684715)

      I could see allowing comments as a way of giving accountability to projects. If, for example, someone failed to deliver on a project, being able to comment would be very helpful.

      • This. So much this.

        Not allowing comments is what would allow projects like projektor to just get dozens of iThing fans to pledge for it without realizing they're being had.

        There should be a mechanism to deal with abusive comments, though - but that requires somebody at KickStarter to actually work through submissions in that mechanism, and assumes it won't get abused by people going "I have what I believe is a unique product, but this commenter posted everybody to an e-bay auction that sells something simi

  • by John Pfeiffer ( 454131 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:40AM (#39684685) Homepage

    This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm simply appalled that they would even SAY THAT. I'm not really that surprised though, as I've been on the receiving end of Kickstarter's questionable behavior as well.

    I submitted a Kickstarter for a generic USBHID interface board (For making game controllers and input devices, though it really had tons of applications) and they rejected it for no reason. When pressed for an explanation, they said "Kickstarter is for creative arts projects and [my] project did not fit."

    So, I guess having a DOZEN Kickstarters for Arduino clones going at any given time is okay, but if someone wants to make something that hasn't been run into the ground yet, fuck 'em! I mean, wow! I was only trying to get $500 together!

    • God d*mn, man. That DOES suck, a lot.
      For the record, I *can* think of a lot of uses for such a board (I want to power-mod my cheap android WM8650 tablet, and that's exactly what I need!). I would have donated. I'd love to know if you are able to get it up. I am not in a position for hefty donations but I sure will try to help, or purchase the end product.

    • KickStarter is not the only player - just saying.

      In no particular order (actually, alphabetical, but in no order of preference.. except for that of the alphabet.. nnngh!)

      boostive ckie crowdbackers crowdfunder eightbitfunding (games, not really applicable to your project) fundageek fundit fundry indiegogo investedin kickstarter peerbackers pleasefundus pledgie pozible quirky rockethub sponsorcraft sponsume ulule wefund

      There's more, but most of them are very 'fund-my-life' or are platforms that are quite dead

  • With so many women being stalking targets

    Kickstarter, throw her out, whether she deserves it, or not.

  • It's her own fault (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kegon ( 766647 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @08:45AM (#39684733)

    While I think that Kickstarter could have handled it better; read the article on her website.

    She got spam comments and she replied to them. She claims that she was being stalked and she recognised the stalker: why reply ? Just report them. You're not supposed to feed trolls.

    It is clear the reason she got kicked off because she got interacted with the spammer and was part of the problem.

    And WTF is a "transmedia artist" ? She uses various media, multimedia ?

  • I know kickstarter is going to get a lot of negative feelings about this, but I can't blame them for their decision. Look at all the crazy lawsuits that happen and succeed... such as a person suing the owner of the house they are robbing, after they injure themselves during the crime... there is a chance that if they allowed a project to go forward, knowing that it could provide a new forum for cyberstalking against someone with a long history or it, then kickstarter risks a liability lawsuit.

    This isn't dis

  • bs? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Frankiezzz ( 2001558 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:02AM (#39684859)
    It's very possible that this is all a bs story on her part and she's just whoring for attention.
    Kickstarter may have made the right call.
    Reddit uncovered some more info about her, that doesn't paint her in a very good light:
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3840589 [ycombinator.com]
    http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/s97g4/banned_from_kickstarter_for_being_a_stalking/c4c5j7r [reddit.com]
  • by thrift24 ( 683443 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @09:09AM (#39684891) Homepage
    As you all know I have a rockin' tight ass, a successful project on Kickstarter that you've all funded, and a cyberstalker that goes by the name of FrankSinatraDirtyTalker1915@comcast.net.
    I originally met "Frank" back in College, where we dated for a bit. I should point out that he's not an old man, as his username might imply, but rather someone who is simply obsessed with Frank Sinatra and my gorgeous rockin hard ass.
    Anyway, when I broke up with him he took it pretty badly. It was our Sophomore year at Rice University and I had just discovered gravity bongs and going down on another girl while blazed out of my gord. As I've admitted, these were confusing albeit fun times for me.
    Meanwhile, "Frank" was raised as a Mormon but had recently converted to Scientology. I guess you might say he was experimenting with his own hallucinogenic homoerotic drug. This drug/sex/cult cocktail, combined with my round pulchritudinous derriere, and the sudden shock of losing his ability to play his daily role of dressing up as Dr. Parnassus while gently fondling my perky nipples and supple breasts that he had affectionately named the Merry Mammary Sisters of Nippopolis, and Queens of the Breastiary - led to Frank's complete mental breakdown.
    I don't blame Frank for my rockin body, just as I don't blame you for being attracted to my intelligence and funding my project on Kickstarter. However, what I do not like is being stalked. I hope you all do what I do when you see Frank's messages on any thread related to my project. Just lick your index finger, point it at Frank's username and then say, "Ooooooooooooo ICE COLD! Mama thinks you're a BAAAAD BOYYYY! OOOOOO Ice Cold..." then point the same finger back at your left nipple and make a sizzling sound "SSSSSssssssssssss" and sing this little rap
    Thank you all again for funding my project on Kickstarter. You're clearly invested in a winner!

    also relevant:
    http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3840589 [ycombinator.com]
  • My first impression of the situation described in the summary is it sounds somewhat similar to a web host shutting down a user's account because their site was a magnet for DDoS attacks - a response which would be uncontroversial. Another analogy that comes to mind is the removal of users' comments in a discussion forum, following a legal threats to the site operator.

    The fundamental similarity in all three circumstances seems to be the website operator not wanting to deal with a website user's "baggage", as

  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @11:07AM (#39685599) Homepage

    I've been reading her PR. It looks like she did a small arts festival, and wants to do something else. She's tried being in a band, writing magazine articles, modeling, and organizing events. But no one is paying attention. There's little about her written by anyone else.

    Sometimes she gets it right. Read her "John Galt is homeless" [hplusmagazine.com], a brief reply to Ayn Rand. "We need to face the fact that Randian capitalism is no longer a way to advance oneself but a way to make oneself poor. The roles have now been reversed and it is no longer survival-of-the-fittest but survival-of-the-most-willing-to-please."

    I've met so many people like that in the SF art scene. They're wild, crazy, fun, and can't quite make it. They tend to end up bitter by age 35.

  • by Rix ( 54095 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @01:54PM (#39687165)

    Kickstarter doesn't accept all projects. It accepts those that are likely to succeed, and will reflect well on itself, and by proxy future projects. If her project is inundated by a stalker, then it doesn't reflect well on Kickstarter or its other projects.

    Now, what actions could Kickstarter take to rectify this?

    It could assign staff to moderate the project. Her project appears small, in the low three figures. Kickstarter takes only 5%, so their revenue is in the tens of dollars. A dedicated stalker can easily dodge automated blocking and tie up more resources than is financially viable for them to dedicate to her project. Thus, this is not an option.

    Kickstarter could decide not to accept pre paid/gift credit cards and thus prevent the stalker from simply buying a new, $10 card each time his account gets banned. Not only would this cost Kickstarter many orders of magnitude more than her project could bring in, it would marginalize millions of people who do not have another way to contribute to the communities that use Kickstarter, many of whom are already vulnerable people with little socioeconomic power. Clearly, this is not an option.

    Kickstarter could ban comments, or allow project managers to delete comments. This would stifle the communities involvement with the project, and potentially allow project managers to sweep legitimate problems under the rug. This would diminish the trust the public might be willing to grant other projects. It would be irresponsible to choose this optio Even requiring a credit card and a $1 contribution to commentn.

    That leaves the unfortunate final option to decline to host her project until the matter can be resolved. It most certainly is not her fault, but it isn't Kickstarter's either.

  • by Sketchly ( 1354369 ) on Saturday April 14, 2012 @06:04PM (#39689215)
    As previously pointed out, she has mental problems. My diagnosis: she's schitzophrenic, and stalking herself. Now go and read a proper story.

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