Oklahoma Schools Required To Teach Students Personal Finance 304
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Paula Burkes reports that under legislation passed in 2007, Oklahoma students, effective this May, now must demonstrate an understanding in banking, taxes, investing, loans, insurance, identity theft and eight other areas to graduate. The intent of personal financial literacy education is to inform students how individual choices directly influence occupational goals and future earnings potential. Basic economic concepts of scarcity, choice, opportunity cost, and cost/benefit analysis are interwoven throughout the standards and objectives. 'Oklahoma has some of the strongest standards in the country,' says Amy Lee, executive director of the Oklahoma Council on Economic Education, which lobbied for and helped develop the curriculum. 'Where other states require four or five standards regarding earnings, savings and investing, Oklahoma has 14 standards including three that are state-specific: bankruptcy, the financial impact of gambling and charitable giving.' The law is designed to allow different districts to implement the curriculum in different ways, by offering instruction in various grade levels, or by teaching all the curriculum in a single class or spreading it across several courses. 'The intent of this law was always to graduate students out of high school with a strong foundation in personal financial literacy to reduce the many social ills that come from mismanaging personal finance,' says Jim Murphree. 'I cannot think of anything that we teach that is more relevant.'"
Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe students will fully understand the ramifications of going deep in to debt to with student loans.
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One can't win at a game unless they know the rules.
False. Some people win at Baccarat.
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and with federal expenditure.
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Unfortunately, sex education is still off-limits. It obviously has no financial ramifications.
That's not a student loan, it's Pay It Forward (Score:2, Interesting)
You are correct to the extent that you are discussing the proposed Pay It Forward plan, in which tuition is free, but one pays a fixed fraction of one's income for twenty-five years after graduation. One does not have to pay if one does not have income, and one's debt is forgiven after twenty-five years.
But to the best of my knowledge the Pay It Forward plan has yet to actually be implemented anywhere.
Student loans are funded by banks, and guaranteed by either the states or the federal government. The gov
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If everybody defaulted, you'd be right. Check your work and assumptions.
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No, it represents the rather reasonable view that the dime only has value because it can hire someone else, directly (services) or indirectly (products). Making sure that people capable of performing valuable work remain available in the dollar ecosystem is thus necessary to ensure the holder of said currency can cash in the debt implied by the bill. This requires
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I am in that program. I made the mistake of getting an MBA at a state college. I kid you not, after finishing my College degrees, which took about ten years, I make less in nominal, let alone real, dollars, than I made before I went to college.
Yes, I got fooled.
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The only real rule for ensuring you'll do better in the future is to AVOID BIG DEBTS. Nowhere in the popular media will you ever see that truth.
Because you are posting as AC, it seem likely that if I took 17 seconds to google avoiding debt and pasted a couple hundred links to prove you wrong you would declare them not part of "popular" media. So lets not play that game.
Here's the challenge: You define popular media.
Then we can talk.
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Avoiding bad debt
FTFY
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Yeah, but hanging with mom and dad until you can *buy* a home will save you *far* more. Renting isn't the only financial option; it's just another bad one.
Wow (Score:2, Insightful)
I can get behind this type of teaching. As the summary states, there is nothing more relevant to someone graduating from high school with no real experience or specific working knowledge that is not self-taught.
It's actually unfortunate that they left it up to the districts as that means there will inevitably be multiple districts where it is planned, or taught, by someone who has no clue about it themselves.
Great Idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Absolutely. Long overdue.
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Yea, I agree too.
So where's my +5 mod?
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Yea, I agree too.
So where's my +5 mod?
Don't worry, I modded you up.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
And while I'm in support of this, it's pathetic that we need classes to teach people such things; it shows how unintelligent most people are, and demonstrates further that schools are based on rote memorization.
I suppose you sprung from the womb, with a credit card, checkbook, investments all in hand, taxes paid up, retirement account established and ready to go?
Seriously, where do you suppose people learn stuff? Not everyone's parents are able to teach this kind of stuff, some scarcely know it themselves. What do you think education is for? If not teaching this, then what SHOULD they teach?
Its not like it is all expected to be taught to seniors in High school. It can be spread over many years. Just like everything else taught in public schools.
In sixth grade we had an investment chapter in one of my classes. We learned to to research stocks and bonds. We made investments (monopoly money). We tracked them every week through the newspaper. YES Newspaper. This was 1962 There was no internet. My parents never had enough to invest. They had no clue. I knew what a PE ratio was before I was out of grade school. (Didn't fully understand it, but knew where it came from and how to use it).
I just wish my mom had access to the water your mom drank. Maybe I would have sprung fully fledged into the delivery room, ready to go job hunting the next day.
Also required in Oregon (Score:3)
Re:Also required in Oregon (Score:5, Insightful)
Thusly, I wonder how politically neutral this implementation is...
personal finances courses tend to be:
how to make a budget
how to balance a checkbook (even though nobody uses them)
how credit card interest works
how car loan interest works
how leasing works
how home mortgages work
how bank interest works (or in today's banks doesn't)
some very introductory stuff on investments (ie what are bonds, gics, stocks, dividends, mutual funds, etc).
And I would hope in today's versions they talk a bit about things like payday loans.
Its pretty practical stuff largely divorced from any economic theory.
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Otherwise known as "all that economics-related stuff that people who aren't Econ or Business majors really ought to know". I'd throw in a few other topics, like credit scores (what impacts them, what they mean for you), bankruptcy (too many people seem to think it's a get-out-of-jail-free card), a bit more info on the stock market (there's actually "stock market games" that simulate stock investment portfolios for people, typically using closing price each day), and some stuff on planning for big life event
I think this is a real good idea. (Score:2, Insightful)
When I was six years old, I figured I was old enough to ask for an allowance.
"Mom? Can I have an allowance?"
"No Mike."
"But Mom! I want to buy my own candy bars."
"No Mike."
I begged and pleaded for like an hour. Finally Mom agreed to twenty-five cents a week. That meant that every two weeks, I could buy my own candy bar!
The following week I asked for my allowance. "What allowance?" Mom replied. I broke down in tears. "But Mom, you said I could have twenty-five cents a week." "No I didn't."
She did final
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forget about managing money.
just learn to SUMMARIZE, dammit.
we ain't got time for this shit, man!
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Get one of the ceramic piggy banks that does not have a cork stopper, so you have to break it open with a hammer.
You hold it upside down and insert a butter knife into the slot at an angle, then shake gently. Coins come out with a bit of doing, and you don't have to spend those coins on a new piggy bank.
Re:I think this is a real good idea. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's called an allowance and it's considered by many financial experts to be among the best ways to teach money management to children.
It's an excellent tool to teach savings, splitting income, spending, instant vs. delayed gratification, etc. in a really safe environment (because "bankruptcy" Is a harsh, but temporary lesson. Sadly, you learned the hard way what it was like to not grow up with those skills.
That's the point of an allowance. An allowance is a life-training tool to manage money. The kid learns that he COULD spend the hard earned savings on an ice cream, or he COULD leave it save up for that toy he really wants.
The point is to learn these lessons in a relatively safe environment (if they blow their wad on ice cream, they don't have to worry about food, shelter, etc). And to learn the value of splitting your "income" in various bundles - a dollar to long term savings (to get the toy you want), a dollar to spend, a dollar to save for times you need more than you have or emergencies, a dollar for charity, etc. And if one forgoes spending, that can make the long term savings for the thing you really want go so much faster.
And instant gratification versus delayed gratification is an important lesson. Ice cream now vs. now having to wait another month for the toy.
Finally, one thing children learn way too quickly is how to be a tightwad. Sure it helps to save money, but to pinch every penny may not be the best way (price does not equal value) - spending more might be a better option. Anyone's whose dealt with a parent who insists on keeping their 10 year old junker PC going instead of buying a new one knows this. Plus, instill in them the need to actually go out and socialize with friends - sometimes the goal of saving gets in the way of life and it can lead to health and mental issues - there's absolutely nothing wrong with having fun with friends and getting together, but absolutely wrong (especially for mental health) if you're avoiding friends just to save up for something. It's why you have a "spend/fun" jar.
I know that was one of my mistakes - putting every penny in a savings jar without putting anything in towards having fun now (you want to die alone as a rich, but miserable person?).
Your parents did right by you. (Score:2)
I should have mentioned that my father is also at fault, but only in his own way.
Were I to have ever asked him for an allowance, he would have just said "Go ask your mother".
Now in many ways he was a wonderful father. That's how I got accepted to study astronomy at Caltech.
My father taught me to pound nails the very instant I was strong enough to hold his hammer in two hands. I had to wait a long time before he would trust me with his circular power saw. Now I own HIS father's contractor's table saw, I a
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Really what should have happened, is that THE TWO OF THEM should have agreed on some reasonable allowance, then if I wanted an ice cream, I would be expected to pay for it out of my allowance.
Agreed and disagreed at the same time. I have kids, and they have a modest allowance; and its amazing to see them save up for a few months and buy things like a pokemon game for the DS or whatever. So I agree with you about the importance and value of that end of things.
But it's modest enough that if the ice cream man
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I think the problem is not "spontaneous ice cream", it's if your children *expect* spontaneous ice cream. In general I think your kids should expect that if they ask you for money/things the answer will be "no - that's what your allowance is for" (in fact them asking for things is probably a sign that you're overdoing it). Doesn't mean you can't give them gifts, but they're probably better off if they have little to no say as to when and what those gifts will be. After all Lady Luck smiles on all of us f
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In general I think your kids should expect that if they ask you for money/things the answer will be "no - that's what your allowance is for"
Except that is not what their allowance is for. If they used their allowance for overpriced ice cream, they would certainly be allowed to, but they'd probably regret it; that small instantaneous bit of ice cream is not worth waiting weeks for and they'd likely decide against it.
They've learned that they can buy an occasional candy bar without it impacting their long ter
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> that small instantaneous bit of ice cream is not worth waiting weeks for and they'd likely decide against it.
Indeed. I got to see my 5yo niece get a taste of than lesson when she decided she wanted to spend almost all her savings to have her very own pizza just the way she wanted it on pizza night. She was cautioned, given several chances to back out, and of course changed her mind before the pizza had even arrived. A valuable lesson in both the fact that there comes a point where a choice cannot be
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"Dad!!! Dad!!! the ice cream man is coming!! Can I buy an ice cream?" He would just whip out his wallet and hand me a few dollar bills, without counting them, without ever expecting to be paid back. That was nice at the time, but to this very day I have a problem with binge-purchasing.
My eldest is 7. I give him enough money for lunch for the week on Monday. He can buy treats with that money. If he buys more than one treat a day, he gets no lunch the last day. He's learning, though he still gets a packed lunch on Fridays if he ends up short. Hopefully he's learning to hold without spending to save for things he wants.
When I was 11, my mother would hand me her ATM card and have me run to the bank to get her cash. Sure, sometimes it would be for things like grabbing cash for the deli
Watch some corporate retard (Score:5, Funny)
step in and cry foul that schools shouldn't be teaching kids to be wise with the finances as it will upset the delicate balance of free enterprise.
More like liberal angst (Score:2)
at giving students enough information to realize just what a raw deal college is for most students.
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The right wing quite forcefully opposes such forms of instruction.
Do you have an example in mind? Or is this the doings of the imaginary right wing?
I can cite a newspaper article, but not now (Score:2)
It was several years ago that I read this in the news. I don't recall where I read it, but it was in a dead-tree newspaper.
Given that there is opposition to teaching evolution in some states, and that some state legislature tried to pass a law that the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter be exactly equal to three, how is it that you assert that the opposition to critical thinking on the part of the right wing is just my imagination?
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Given that there is opposition to teaching evolution in some states, and that some state legislature tried to pass a law that the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter be exactly equal to three, how is it that you assert that the opposition to critical thinking on the part of the right wing is just my imagination?
I ask again, do you have evidence of your assertion that the "right wing" forcibly opposes critical thinking, particularly with respect to your example ("teach schoolchildren not to trust advertising")?
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Yep, at least on the state level it was codified:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/... [washingtonpost.com]
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that some state legislature tried to pass a law that the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter be exactly equal to three
So this [snopes.com] is your proof that right-wingers don't want to teach children life skills?
I see where you get your nickname.
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>To teach critical thinking, would be for example to teach schoolchildren not to trust advertising.
Surprisingly effective. Before I was even school-age when my parents let me watch TV (a rare treat) they made a point of explaining to me how the commercials were trying to manipulate me, often on a case-by-case basis with lots of questions: "What are they trying to sell you?" "Do you think that toy can really do what they're suggesting?" etc. I credit that early education with allowing me to grow up large
No. That's not actually the case. (Score:3)
I know lots of people from right-wing families, who got lots of help with their businesses and so are now quite wealthy, quite often through no fault of their own.
I personally feel very strongly that I must succeed on my own merits, so actually for most of my career I've been self-employed. But I never got any real help from anyone other than, if I'm really lucky, the occasional helpful advice.
I learned the very, very hard way that accountants and attorneys are a compete waste of my valuable time. They ar
Oklahoma's business (Score:2)
Should be part of nationwide standards (Score:2)
DOE is there for teachers, not students (Score:2, Interesting)
The DOE has never been about helping students. It's always been a federal organization built to help teachers only.
Which is why shutting it down would make a lot of sense, the communities could come up with sensible standards like teaching financial skills.
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Excuse me, but a sweeping conclusion regarding a cabinet level department of the United States Government and you can't even get the commonly accepted abbreviation of the name right?
Come on man. You need to do better than that to be taken seriously.
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What kind of standard gets set again and again on a local level?
Flexible, relevant, competitive standards developed by the people they will directly impact.
I bet you have a standard routine for wiping your anus. It gets set again and again on a local level. Everyone has their own particular method, but guess what, it works for them. Now once in a while you'll get the retard who just fails and smears shit everywhere, but thankfully they're only impacting themselves. You get to wipe they way you see fit for yourself. If you're ever dissatisfied in your wiping techniq
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And this is where the analogy breaks down. People who set educational standards don't just impact themselves. They impact the students, their community, every community the children will ever be a part of, the greater communities they're parts of and so on right to the world at large. They aren't just smearing themselves in shit, they're forcibly shitting on children.
Saying
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The Federal Government has no constitutional authority to set education standards. It's a state issue [wikipedia.org].
This might help reduce the divorce rate (Score:5, Interesting)
Hopefully this will help reduce the divorce rate.
Divorcé's Guide to Marriage - Study Reveals Five Common Themes Underlie Most Divorces [wsj.com]
Money was the No. 1 point of conflict in the majority of marriages, good or bad, that Dr. Orbuch studied. And 49% of divorced people from her study said they fought so much over money with their spouse—whether it was different spending styles, lies about spending, one person making more money and trying to control the other—that they anticipate money will be a problem in their next relationship, too.
Many marriages today are 'til debt do us part [usatoday.com]
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Heck, I'm single and I find it incredibly useful to pay *myself* for taking care of unappealing tasks. I keep a separate "luxury" account that all my gadgets, dates, beer, sweets, etc. get purchased from - basically all the "vice" stuff that doesn't directly contribute to my long-term well-being. I then pay into that account for all the stuff I "should" do more often - exercising, mopping the floors, etc. All the usual "earn your allowance" stuff, plus any behavioral modification I wish to inflict.
In pract
The ones who really need it (Score:2)
The intent of personal financial literacy education is to inform students how individual choices directly influence occupational goals and future earnings potential. Basic economic concepts of scarcity, choice, opportunity cost, and cost/benefit analysis are interwoven throughout the standards and objectives.
It's a shame that there's no way to force those concepts into the heads of the students who drop out. I suppose you can only help the ones who will be helped; the rest will spend their lives complaining that they're not being helped enough.
Shorter words (Score:4, Interesting)
Oklahoma's teachers had better use shorter words in their curriculum than their lobbyists used for the press.
Though I also think high schoolers should be required to work a minimum wage job before graduation, for at least a few months. That way, instead of abstract concepts, they know "it feels like this to earn $100.00."
No need for hyperbole (Score:2)
Of course you can. The ability to communicate, math, the ability to think for yourself... All relevant to students in general - and in many cases pre-requisites for a lot of the personal finance curriculum. That being said, glad to see this is being taught - it's a great addition!
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Not the job of the Government/Corporations! (Score:2, Interesting)
Look at those states fighting evolution, look at those states fighting climate change. Think of all the times in high school that it was obvious the teacher had no real knowledge of the subject matter and was just rea
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I think this is a bad idea because there is a really good chance you aren't getting a teacher who is an expert in personal finance. My math teachers studied mathematics. I had a biology teacher who had a PHD. My literature teachers were english/lit majors. How many personal finance majors are currently teaching in public schools? What kind of nationally accredited programs exist to prepare college students to be perso
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"What kind of nationally accredited programs exist to prepare college students to be personal finance teachers?"
The same programs that accredit other public school teachers. Home economics has been a named field of study for over a century. If Oklahoma somehow managed to lose all their knowledge about it other states haven't.
"
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Look at those states fighting evolution, look at those states fighting climate change. Think of all the times in high school that it was obvious the teacher had no real knowledge of the subject matter and was just reading out of a book and relying on pre-prepared material.
Who's fighting evolution? How?
I thought you WANTED people to fight slimate change. Now you're all for it? Make up your mind!
And what the fuck does "pre-prepared" mean? Does it perhaps mean "prepared"?
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Pre-prepared refers to slides, homework assignments, and tests pre-prepared by the textbook companies to remove any need for the teacher to actually teach. It is in contrast to the old fashioned method of a teacher preparing their own lesson plans, homework assignments, and tests.
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They aren't doing that. What they're doing is more insidious.
Most of these states are trying to give cover to teachers so they can go off-topic on religious matters and preach creationism, or allow students to opt-out of science lessons involving evolution. All of them are attempting to "teach the controversy" and mandate that unscientific quackery like "intelligent design" get equal time with evolution, to put it on equal footing it do
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Just wait... (Score:2)
I'm sure someone will stand up shortly and complain that this is somehow racist, sexist, or otherwise deleterious to the well-being of the pupils being schooled. Can't have kids learning about how money is made, handled, taxed, and invested. That would interfere with them being good little minions who simply do what they're told by their betters...i.e. those in government power.
Amen (Score:2, Interesting)
Its about time. I don't recall this being mandatory when I was in school back in the 80's, though I took a basic accounting class as an elective, it was not required. Most of the folks I know who are my age (mid 40's) have at least a basic understanding of these concepts, though the high level of credit card debt shows we're not immune to idiocy.
But I recently had to bang my head against a desk and wonder WTF is wrong with the next generation when a 20 something I know and am "friends" with on Facebook post
Banks have no justification for that. (Score:3)
According to him, he should still have $200 and is pissed that his bank screwed him because he now has only $170...... no one ever explained to him that a debit card purchase clears the bank within hours, a day at most while the check he deposited might take up to 3 days to clear and he had overdrafted and been fined $30. Again, none of his contemporaries posted that he was an idiot, the overwhelming number of posts were about how banks screw them all the time saying that they did not have enough money in the bank when they just deposited a check...
To be fair, that's a legitimate complaint. There's no justifiable reason for that delay nor is there one for not giving a grace period until the end of it before finalizing the overdraft fee. The only reason that historical processing delay is still there is to screw customers out of a fee that wouldn't happen if they put as much emphasis on processing deposits as they did on withdrawals. There's no technical justification for such a difference between the two nor for the lack of forgiveness.
He may be ig
I like this. (Score:2, Interesting)
I took a Macroeconomic and a Microeconomic course in College and having even a basic understanding of Supply&Demand and Opportunity cost has helped me immensely in life, to better understand the motivation of how anything works.
Start teaching civics again too! (Score:4, Insightful)
We used to have civics classes back when I was in school. We learned about the Federal, State, County and City governments, their structure, how you can interact with government, etc. Too many people are so clueless about how it all works they shouldn't even be allowed to vote (although most of them probably don't).
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Look at the bright side (Score:2, Flamebait)
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Finance weight (Score:2)
Finance weight has become so important that it has be taught in school.
I cannot wait for other constraints to become so important that instead of managing them, society decide to train children to cope with them: find a cave to sleep, make fire, spare attacks from wild animals, manage a raid from rival tribe...
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Usually an attitude held by those who've not lived there. It's a bit different, but given their population mix, about what you'd expect.
I'm not surprised. (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I count myself firmly as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, but one of the strong suits of conservatism as a philosophy is a belief both in the value of self-reliance and self-responsibility, especially in a financial realm. I have no surprise seeing this come from a red state, and I wish more states would embrace such a curriculum.
It's irresponsible that we don't teach kids how to manage money, and it's a good place to get in their heads that math is useful for something, even if they don't like it. We need a society that values saving and long-term rewards over short-term consumption.
We spend too much time thinking of the other side as "the enemy" because of "wrong" beliefs that don't match our own and not enough time looking seriously at their strengths and how we can embrace those as common values -- places where we need to step up our own game in a bipartisan fashion.
So, good for you, Okies. May this be an example for the rest of us.
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Saving over short-term consumption? Are you trying to destroy our entire economy?!?!?
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Saving over short-term consumption? Are you trying to destroy our entire economy?!?!?
Yes. And to build a better one in it's place.
I did say I was a liberal, didn't I? :-)
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Why do you hate America? Go back to Portland with the rest of the hippies!
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Re:I'm not surprised. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't worry - that sort of thinking will be a quaint anachronism soon. Government dependence is the name of the game in 2014. Then, the dependent people can vote for more benefits for themselves, and continue in a virtuous cycle until America is a one-party nation. The future is going to be awesome!
I know you think you're being cute and funny, but this kind of asinine reductionism (whether sincere or not) is a huge part of the problem. There are some problems for which government -- i.e. the democratically chosen pooling of resources by the people -- is the best or only solution. Where the line lies between the far extremes of pure laissez faire capitalism and state-run socialism is a valid matter for civil debate and disagreement, but this sort of "all or nothing" BS is why America is completely dysfunctional at this point.
Because of people who think that the other side has nothing of value to offer and must be relentlessly mocked at any turn. Who think that purity of thought is a virtue and compromise a deadly sin.
Frankly, a lot of us are sick and tired of it. We need negotiators and diplomats. We need scientists and engineers. We don't need more divas and demagogues and firebrands. No more culture warriors and sound byte artisans.
We need an adult in here.
Re:I'm not surprised. (Score:5, Insightful)
Too bad Oklahoma receives more in federal dollars than it pays in, unlike most 'liberal' states.
You know what would help change that? More people knowing how to live within their means and how to avoid predatory lending. Are you really so wrapped up in "team rivalry" thinking that you reject this common sense idea on reflex?
Progressives should be happy that we're helping people in need, but we should also be even happier when they're shown how not to need it and to help others in need in their place. It's a sad thing that American politics has devolved the the point where you can only be self-reliant and independent OR compassionate and community oriented. Strong OR generous. What happened to being both?
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How about a program that provides decent-paying jobs? Wouldn't that do a lot toward ending personal financial crises?
Most such "programs" provide decent-paying jobs by taking away more decent-paying jobs elsewhere, but doing so in a invisible manner (few people see opportunity costs). I suggest market capitalism instead (it doesn't have to be "free market", regulated markets usually work well too) as something that actually works at creating decent-paying jobs.
If you don't have a job, if you can't pay your mortgage or your student loans, must be because you didn't pay attention in your "personal finance" class in high school.
BUT you might not have such large mortgage and student loans with that personal finance class. The more people who have smaller, more manageable problems, the bette
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It's sort of unnecessary. Most high schools have classes in home economics, or straight up business classes that teach skills like making a household budget, managing credit, how to calculate interest for a car loan, etc. Given the sponsors of the OCEE, I have a feeling this is going to be part instructional courses and part corporate propaganda.
Where have you been the past 30 years? Home economics, wood/metal/auto shop, gym/PE, and driver's ed with actual driving training are all but gone. Some dipshits convinced people that those skills wouldn't be necessary anymore, that home ec was offensive, that gym made Bily feel bad for being a fatty, and that training kids to drive on the school parking lot was too much of a liability, so they just let them mow their classmates down at the prom. (Don't worry, they've worked it out so the prom is held af
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Hey, why can't California or New York or Massachusetts have this?
Maybe they're too busy with stupid shit?
Let’s give up on academic freedom in favor of justice [thecrimson.com]
There's nothing progressive or liberal about the dolt that wrote that - that's just leftist statism/fascism talking. One wonders where such a moron learned that freedom is something to be given up for her perverted idea of "justice".
Holy shit that link contains a lot of stupid.
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Well... [mass.edu]
My wife went to public school in Massachusetts in the 1960s and 1970s and in her town they taught personal finance as part of the curriculum. I think a lot of that kind of forward thinking went out with ed reform, which focused on more traditional academic subjects. Massachusetts was early on the ed reform bandwagon, and consequently our students perennially top the nation in math, science and reading scores in the past decade. It sounds like the Mass DoE is looking for a way to shoehorn back in som
Re:Republican-controlled Oklahoma? (Score:5, Interesting)
When my parents were in high school and college, "Home Ec" classes were actually about home economics (ranging from budgeting to investments to the consequences of bankruptcy and even to running a home business). By the time I was that age, those subjects were all but gone (at least in the area I went to school, namely western Washington state) and what vestiges of them were left seemed to be about... cooking, or something. Nobody really talked about them, except in a disparaging voice intended to deride girls who had no real place in the school so they took "home ec" because that was all they could manage. Yes, they really were that sexist about it, too.
I've often thought it was a pity that *real* home economics classes - the kind of things that every adult ought to know, but so few people apparently learn - really ought to be standard material. What are the various kinds of investment accounts, and what are their tradeoffs? How can you calculate how much stock options are likely to be worth at a company? What is a "short sell" and why should or shouldn't you do them? What does it mean to "refinance" a loan, and when can or should you do it? How do you compare salaries in areas with different costs of living? When is renting a home more cost-effective than buying one? What kinds of things impact your credit score in what ways? How expensive of a car can I afford? Is it better to get a short loan or a long one (or none at all) in various common scenarios? Why is it better to diversify investments?
These aren't business major questions. You don't need a degree in economics to understand them. They don't even require advanced mathematics, certainly nothing above a typical high school curriculum. At least some of this material is highly likely to be useful to literally every single competent (as in, doesn't need a full-time caregiver) adult, and in a capitalist society, the costs of *not* knowing it can be severe.
Despite that, we don't usually teach those subjects in school. I got a bit from my parents, a bit from some extraordinary teachers I had prior to high school, a tiny bit from an intro econ class in college (said class focused more on theoretical economics, not on the real-world stuff), and a bit more through independent research... and I'm still not confident that I can answer all the questions above (I intentionally included some that I've been meaning to read up on in the future). I've been out of college for four years now...
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New York does have this, it's just not presented as something new. It's called Home Economics.
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"that's just leftist statism/fascism talking"
It interesting that you use "leftist" as a dirty word to describe someone that uses "liberal" as a dirty word.
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They should teach both sides of the Bitcoin controversy.
Side A: Bitcoins are great.
Side B: Bitcoins are great, and Doge coins are Bitcoins + fun!
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Consider what they may not be teaching in order to cover topics that are
state-specific: bankruptcy, the financial impact of gambling and charitable giving
The school year and the material that can be covered in it is finite. If you add hefty new requirements, something else will have to be dropped. Maybe they can trim out all the "controversial" science.
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We covered a lot of those topics in our "Problems of Democracy" class even back in the '70s
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That's where you come in ...
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As an Oklahoma resident since 1990, I can guarantee you (with high levels of confidence) that it will be politically slanted to the Republican side.(I'll leave the 'good vs. bad' argument alone)
And from my experience and observation, Amy Lee's statement: 'Oklahoma has some of the strongest standards in the country,' does not mean anything regarding the actual quality of OK's public education system.
What her statement means to me is that her criteria is: "How many boxes can we check? More is better, right?"
O
Re:Rules for kids (Score:5, Insightful)
Rules to teach your kids:
1. NEVER own a credit card. They serve no purpose and the fact of the matter is, if you use one responsibly (only in emergencies) the credit card company will cancel your card for lack of use after a few months anyway. Trust me, I tried for years to keep one but even with an 800+ credit score they'd cancel it every time.
This is terrible advice. Using a credit card responsibly doesn't mean "only for emergencies," it means "only for expenditures you would have otherwise, and COULD HAVE OTHERWISE, paid for with cash." Pay your bill on time, you pay zero interest, and get cash back.
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You didn't get to item 2: "All free financial advice is a scam." At that point Charliemopps has advised us to pay no attention what he just wrote. ;-)
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Suggested clarification: Someone presenting themselves with the title "Financial Adviser", who meets with you in person without you paying them (e.g., front-load mutual fund company agents), is a scam.
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Good advices!
1. I'd say it's possible to get ahead using a credit card, but you need to be very disciplined. The agreements are very much structured as a deal with the devil, as soon as you get behind one payment they start charging you as many fees and interest charges as they can. That said, you can win by:
Getting a card with 0% APR, and paying off the balance in full each month.
ALWAYS paying your balance off in full every month before the due date. Do not carry a balance, since this means they start
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Disagree with your first point, though the rest are good.
Credit cards, if paid off in full every month, are a great way to build your credit score and can also offer "rewards" amounting to a couple percent discount on your purchases (which comes in the form of higher prices to cover CC fees, but most places charge the same whether you pay with credit or cash). They are also a really convenient way to handle disputes with merchants. Oh, and your bank(s) suck(s); I only carry one card (so it gets used regular