Cyanogen Inc. Turns Down Google, Seeing $1 Billion Valuation 107
An anonymous reader writes: According to a report at The Information (paywalled), Cyanogen Inc., the company trying to commercializa the popular CyanogenMod mobile OS based on Android, recently met with Google's Android chief to talk about an acquisition. The report says Cyanogen turned down Google's offer and instead seeks funding from investors and major tech companies at a valuation around $1 billion. "Cyanogen has told potential investors that it has a deal in place to bring its custom version of the Android OS to India through a manufacturer called Micromax. Alongside Samsung, Micromax currently holds almost as much share of the smartphone market in India, making this deal a very large step to get Cyanogen into the hands of millions of more people. Lastly, the report claims that Cyanogen should be wary of modifying Android too much. During the process, the company must continue to follow Google's compatibility requirements which ensure third-party applications will work on their devices. If those requirements are not met, devices will not be licensed to run Google's services, such as Google Play and other Google applications."
Google just pissy (Score:5, Informative)
Google is just in a snit that CyanogenMod is fantastically better than stock android, BECAUSE it gives power back to users.
For instance, the power to rescind permissions on installed apps, the ability to have finer control over CPU throttles, and of course, the removal of bunches of total horse-shit that gets bundled.
Google is more worried that CyanogenMod being a mainstream thing will affect their ability to have baked in adware out of the box, generating money for them. Not that CyanogenMod devices will fail to run 3rd party apps.
"Oh noes! Dont allow users to use fake geolocation! That will ruin our datamining operations! Oh no! Not our playstore advert shit too!? Did you REALLY just give users the ability to say "NO" to that app maker's blanket permissions requirement AFTER they said yes initially to let it install!? How will Facebook get its hentai tentacles into users' contact lists!? That removes the "Our way or the highway" tactic from the table!! AHHH!"
Seriously-- this is SOP for big companies that have "disruptive" competition-- Attempt to buy them out.
Google is probably pretty steamed at getting hand slapped right about now, which is why they are brandishing their oh-so-special google services apps like a cudgel now.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Insightful)
unfortunately, no matter what your principles are, a pile of cash is a pile of cash. it has the magic power of a pile of cash. once cyanogenmod gets its pile of cash, we'll once again be looking for alternative roms.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Insightful)
unfortunately, no matter what your principles are, a pile of cash is a pile of cash. it has the magic power of a pile of cash. once cyanogenmod gets its pile of cash, we'll once again be looking for alternative roms.
Sad but true. It's a shame, becuase cyanogenmod has support for a lot of older phones that the phone manufacturers don't really support anymore.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:4, Interesting)
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As long as capitalist exists, a pile of cash is enough to ruin any altrustic endevour, unrelated activist cause.
When you follow this to its logical end, the only people who really have a true say in the end, are those with large piles of cash. Not the will of laborers, engineers, thinkers, and developers. Everyone needs to bow to large piles of cash.
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I am anti-capitalist for many reasons, but yes, the most obvious reason from a utilitarian PoV is that it is much lower risk to buy out and destroy your competition than it is to compete. It is the easiest way to become (on the one side) or to remain (on the other) filthy rich.
Most technical advances occur under social democracy, where entrepreneurialism is encouraged but directed. The Far East is moving in this direction and away from authoritarianism, just as Europe's moving to the dullard's favourite new
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Out of interest, how would you stop a man who invests his time in making and using tools from being more productive than one who sits on his ass all day drinking beer/vodka?
That's not a capitalist. A capitalist is he who takes the surplus profit from ownership of the means of production as unearned income.
Self-employed people are not automatically practicing capitalism. They may or may not be working within a capitalist system, but their own business is not a capitalistic one, unless and until they employ workers and pay them less than their fair share of the profit.
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the irony is biting me, as a good chunk of the world does not have a good chance to eat, and its because of capitalism. People starve in wealthy countries.
>Out of interest, how would you stop a man who invests his time in making and using tools from being more productive than one who sits on his ass all day drinking beer/vodka?
I'
Re: Google just pissy (Score:3)
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Insightful)
That was my first thought. Google either wants to kill it or neuter it.
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> That was my first thought. Google either wants to kill it or neuter it.
Even if they didn't, the internal pressure to do that once acquired would have been enormous.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Interesting)
That was my first thought. Google either wants to kill it or neuter it.
Actually, from what I see Google takes care to ensure the CM and similar efforts can continue to grow and thrive. This is why all Nexus devices are unlocked or unlockable, and why Google encourages OEMs to keep their devices open, too (with limited success).
I'm skeptical of the article's claim that Google was interested in acquiring CM. I just don't see the point... CM's whole value to Google is because it's independent, both of Google and of other parties in the ecosystem (OEMs, carriers, etc.).
(Disclaimer: I'm an Android engineer at Google, but I'm speaking only for myself.)
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Fair enough points and you could be correct, but I'm sorry if I do not trust your employer. I'm not really sorry per se but you know what I mean. Google makes it's money from ads. CM allows users to circumvent that. It's pretty simple math to me.
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You can also circumvent ads with AdBlock. Google doesn't try to do anything about that (and they easily could, especially on Chrome). In addition, you can make the ads much less effective even without blocking them by opting out of ad personalization and analytics tracking. Google not only doesn't try to stop you from doing that, they provide and maintain tools that specifically enable you to do it.
Yes, Google wants to trade services for the opportunity to show you ads, and even wants to make the ads more
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Adding GApps is just an additional package that you have to add while flashing CM onto your device. All it really is, is one additional download and one additional package transfer after you've put CM on there. My guess is that Google wanted to control the distribution and didn't want to have the GApps bundled directly into a "not officially sanctioned" firmware or whatever. Perhaps it's a licensing issue?
Besides, you don't have to add the GApps, and I think maybe CM prefers it that way. You can easily add
Re: Google just pissy (Score:3)
Regardless, I think many people wouldn't be happy if cm automatically included GApps, since the lack of that proprietary spyware
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the lack of that proprietary spyware is the main reason to use it.
Cite? Specifically, do you have any evidence that GApps spies on you?
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You can also circumvent ads with AdBlock. Google doesn't try to do anything about that (and they easily could, especially on Chrome). In addition, you can make the ads much less effective even without blocking them by opting out of ad personalization and analytics tracking. Google not only doesn't try to stop you from doing that, they provide and maintain tools that specifically enable you to do it.
A good example is the lack of video download extensions with support for Youtube. None exist in the Chrome app store, you have to use external sites such as KeepVid to download Youtube videos, because it's against the app store usage policy. I guess it's probably a demand from content providers or whatever, but it shows that Google can restrict apps and extensions from doing things they don't approve. And yet there's tons of adblocking extensions in the app store, so obviously they don't really mind if peop
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Of course, the acceptable ads option is actually a good way of getting users to face the fact that they're using ad-supported content sites that wouldn't exist if everyone blocked the ads. There's such a thing as a middle ground. Freedom doesn't mean freedom to freeload.
Similar thing with YouTube videos. Somebody owns them (and it's not always Google). They were provided to you to view online. Downloading them was not offered. Just because you can, doesn't make it right (or your "right").
And I say thi
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I used to be very staunchly anti-all-advertising, but I've reversed my position lately and enabled non-intrusive advertising in ABP. Basic text-only ads such as Google's are OK, I guess, as long as they don't interfere with the content.
Then again, I run NoScript and I'm probably not going to whitelist doubleclick.net etc.
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Thank you for this -- I just assumed there's no AdBlock on Chrome because Google wouldn't allow it, and didn't even look, until now. Installed and running fine. My respect for Google just went up a notch.
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You're kidding right? At this point, CM is the Digg equivalent of mods. The users have been steadily moving on to third party to CM mods and this valuation is smoke and mirror crazy level nonsense.
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You're kidding right? At this point, CM is the Digg equivalent of mods. The users have been steadily moving on to third party to CM mods
Like what? Having looked most of them are not updated and none of them bother to support my device.
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CM doesnt come with google play by default, and Google has been working to modularize (and therefore make available to CM) a huge number of its stock "pieces" (like the camera, play services, etc).
I feel like everyone in this thread has no idea what theyre talking about. What threat do you suppose CM represents to Google? You're still using Play, and if you arent, why should google care whether you use a de-Play'd AOSP or a Winphone? Mindshare is mindshare.
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"Defrock them from google play?" The reason many people use CM is precisely because it doesn't include all the google spyware by default.
And that is threatening to google. Their whole business model depends on you running their spyware apps.
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Their whole business model depends on you running their spyware apps.
Actually, most of their Android business model depends on you buying stuff on Play. I won't quote any numbers because I'm not sure if Google releases them, but Google's cut of app, movies, music and book sales is getting to be pretty significant. Google also makes plenty from mobile advertising, of course, but that doesn't really depend on you using Google's apps, since, as I understand it, most of the advertising revenue comes from (a) mobile search and (b) advertising embedded in third-party apps (AdMob).
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Fuck off and die.
What an eloquent, informative response! I salute you, sir.
Mod parent up (Score:1)
And verifying all of this would probably not be impossible. There are a few important things to take away from this. First, if you think you might be surveilled, try to collect some evidence of the fact. Second, only the government is interested in you in a personal sense — to Google you're just user number 1,409,0344,744. They are interested in whether their collective userbase finds their services to be useful, not whether you've been trash-talking Sergei Brin and the Obama Administration. Finally,
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Second, only the government is interested in you in a personal sense — to Google you're just user number 1,409,0344,744.
Exactly, that's why I don't think Google is nearly as threatening as a lot of people make them out to be. They don't care about your porn brownsing habits, but they're very interested in knowing the broad statistics of which terms people search for most, and which types of ads or links they click when they're buying books or whatever. Not the individual links, but the type of links.
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Re: Google just pissy (Score:1)
10E100 will just continue to move functionality to its play service. When they have closed the permissions model, they've sacked most of CM's power.
And I think there would have been even some positive points about a CM purchase. Google doesnt like the vendors to abandon devices and leave play store app devs with the problem of old APIs. with additional google money, a system like CM could have been used by google to enlarge recent version market shares.
That is rubbish (Score:2)
I don't want an iOS phone - *but* buying an Android phone for a similar chunk of cash, it never comes with any guarantee of a future update.
Google recognized this and released the 'google edition' versions of some of the high-end popular handsets. That ticks the box for the users of these phones - you're
Re: Google just pissy (Score:1)
Don't get me wrong I love the guys.... I thin
Re: Google just pissy (Score:1)
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... Stable updates come slower, I've had bat problems with recent builds ...
Dude, go to Settings, select Attic Window and set it to Closed. Them bats will be shit out of luck then.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Informative)
Google is just in a snit that CyanogenMod is fantastically better than stock android,
This is a little absurd. I use and love Cyanogenmod, but calling it "better than stock" is a gross oversimplification. Upon upgrading to the recent M11 release of CM, I just got back the ability to watch netflix on my Nexus which was broken due to a driver bug. This isnt a new thing either; CM tends to have one or two new fairly irritating bugs per release, and generally lacks the polish of google's stock android.
Not to mention that CM doesnt really add that much back into android; at the moment the biggest features are
* root (not really that important for 90% of people, and generally a nuisance as actual workplaces require you to unroot to use email). Biggest reasons I can think of for root are advanced tasker profiles (though CM Profiles generally replace tasker), TitaniumBackup, and some really really niche stuff (like CatLog, wifi tinkering stuff, etc)
* Multi-user (which is busted right now on phones)
* Profiles (which can mostly be replicated using tasker or similar programs on stock)
* a lot of display customization (a lot of which you can get using alternate launchers like Nova)
As has been pointed out root does utterly break the security model of Android by allowing for actual rootkits and persistent threats.
All that said, 3rd party roms are great, but they really arent suitable for a lot of people unless those people have a specific thing theyre looking to fix. The real value of CM is in providing access to newer ROMs than may be officially supported on their phone.
Google is more worried that CyanogenMod being a mainstream thing will affect their ability to have baked in adware out of the box
Android doesnt have baked in adware, and CM doesnt remove whatever you think constitutes said adware. If you're referring to GApps, its pretty normal to add the latest GApps to CM when you flash it. If you're referring to the Apps, what do you suppose would happen to free apps in a world where everyone was running a hosts-based adblocker?
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This isnt a new thing either; CM tends to have one or two new fairly irritating bugs per release, and generally lacks the polish of google's stock android.
Being new to Android I was impressed as snot what all worked and stability of the platform compared with what had been previously used to dealing with.
So far my gripes tend to mysteriously correct themselves in the next M update without ever having filed a single bug report. Flashlight app missing from quick menu - next M release it was there.
WiFi tethering borked - working in following release.
Pocket dialed 911 thank you crappy emergency dialer new M release new feature to disable digitizer based on prox
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My mistake. M10 fixed the issue. M8 and M9 broke netflix on my Nexus 5 due to a "green flicker" bug.
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Functionally better HOW and by WHOS definition?
From Google's perspective, its the opposite of what they want. They don't want users to be able to have apps stop spying on them, thats how Google makes money.
Users are never going to bother installing something YOU think is superior, or it would be year of the Linux desktop too.
Phone manufactures aren't going to want to cut themselves out of reaping the benefits of Google's spying.
Theres pretty much nothing of value in CyanogenMod outside of geeky techs.
99.
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"Oh noes! Dont allow users to use fake geolocation! That will ruin our datamining operations! Oh no! Not our playstore advert shit too!? Did you REALLY just give users the ability to say "NO" to that app maker's blanket permissions requirement AFTER they said yes initially to let it install!? How will Facebook get its hentai tentacles into users' contact lists!? That removes the "Our way or the highway" tactic from the table!! AHHH!"
Cyanogenmod is clearly better than stock, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. You can't prevent an application from getting your device ID, or from accessing the Internet in stock Cyanogenmod. For that you need something like XPrivacy.
Re:Google just pissy (Score:5, Interesting)
So does Xposed, and far deeper than CM ever contemplated.
More likely Google is looking at CM because CM effectively helps to solve the Android "fragmentation" problem, namely getting the latest version onto devices where the manufacturers drop support prematurely. All they'd have to do is officially brand CM as their "Android legacy support" service and just kinda step back.
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Hm. True. I could've phrased that better, although the definition of "premature" in this case might be debatable. I like to think that everyone will agree that "while the device is still being sold in stores" definitely counts as "premature", and I'm of the opinion that anything less than 2 years after introduction is pushing it.
Outside of the Nexus line, I'm not sure any device would get a pass.
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Google is just in a snit that CyanogenMod is fantastically better than stock android, BECAUSE it gives power back to users.
No, the real value of CM is the way they manage to put recent, lightweight android on devices in stead of their manufacturers.
Power to users is just a secondary goal, and CM doesn't offer much more than just rooting. For this, the champion is Xposed framework.
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1 B$ for open source software ? (Score:4, Interesting)
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a billion $$$ for a free fork of android for freetards is a steal
amazon or microsoft will buy them next week for double that
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this man is an intellegent rational person who is here to make insightful comments.
76% of all computers run the linux kernel. u mad bro?
Re:1 B$ for open source software ? (Score:4, Interesting)
CyanogenMod is missing the boat by being blinded by the *potential* for more cash. The ture reality is that Google's offer is the best they will get, and they fucked it up. Google will offer them much less when it becomes obvious that CyanogenMod made a mis-calculation.
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CyanogenMod is missing the boat by being blinded by the *potential* for more cash. The ture reality is that Google's offer is the best they will get, and they fucked it up. Google will offer them much less when it becomes obvious that CyanogenMod made a mis-calculation.
I was waiting for someone to say this. We're clearly in a tech bubble. Making a business out of CyanogenMod would mean trying to out-google google, while at the same time relying on many of google's own services! They are fools for not taking the money and running.
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The cyanogen team has the skills to maintain not just an Andro
Re:1 B$ for open source software ? (Score:5, Insightful)
The value is not in the code but rather in the developers. I challenge you to take a few of your friends take the current version of cyanogen mod and get it working on the next Samsung phone when it gets released. Don't worry about upgrades or cross compatibility or the apps that the cyanogen mod team maintain, just focus on something as basic as getting it working on one new platform before you use the anyone can fork it argument.
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The value is not in the code but rather in the developers. I challenge you to take a few of your friends take the current version of cyanogen mod and get it working on the next Samsung phone when it gets released.
You are totally right. I could not do it, but the current CyanogenMod could easily fork it after having cashed Google's Money.
This exactly what happened with MySQL in 2008 : Monty Widenius sold it to Sun Microsystems for $1 billion. He then left to start MariaDB, a MySQL fork.
I don't think that Google is stupid or desperate enough to spend $1 billion on a company having only brilliant developers but no IP.
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Thats done all the time. You just need to give enough incentives (ie: equity with long term conditions) for people to stay.
I don't know how many people work on CyanogenMod, but hiring a douzen or so top notch engineers with knowledge of android's internal could take years. Thats a lot of lost opportunities, projects that have to be canned from lack of resources.
Bad move (Score:2)
You don't refuse an offer from the godfather to buy you out.
Android without Google. (Score:4, Interesting)
When do they set up a "Cyanogen store"?
Even without Cyanogenmod, Android phones work just fine without Google services. At first power-up, there's a "sign up/log in" screen, with a "Later" option. Click "Later" and go on.
You can disable the "Google One-Time Startup" app to keep it from bothering you again.
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(Not using the stock OS, also has the advantage of avoiding the "later", "later", "later" options you speak of).
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And Amazon is better than Google how exactly?
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Amazon's appstore runs with the same level of privilege as F-Droid. If you allow it to, it will check for updates to your apps (just like F-Droid), but it can't install apps without your permission. Google's core apps all run as root and have complete access to your data.
Amazon's a sleazy dataminer, too, but their appstore on Android is nothing like Google Play in its ability to be creepy and invasive.
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I'd like to know your source for the information that all of the GApps run as root, because if that were true, it would be a MASSIVE security hole. Somehow I doubt Google would be that stupid ;-)
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Good for them. I am not surprised... (Score:2)
Who would want to be bought by Google, only to be "destroyed" like so many promising [killedgoog...ts.silk.co] companies' products have?
I now see that it's [not] always about the money.
Google lacks 'noblesse' (Score:2)
It's trying to get its godawful greedy hands on anything that it sees as undercutting its hegemony.
I salute Cyanogen for their thumbing nose. I hope they can keep it up.
On a related matter -- Fed up with Google? Use http://startpage.com./ [startpage.com.]
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Erratum : should have made that https://startpage.com./ [startpage.com.] My apologies!
does it matter? (Score:2)
Isn't Cyanomod open source? I might be missing something, but if Google buys it, can't it just be forked and have development on an OS more secure than Android continue?
I'm not an expert in these things, so I'm not sure, but that's how I thought it worked.
When you buy an open source OS, what are you really buying?
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Isn't Cyanomod open source?
CM is working hard to remedy this. They started with photo app just after incorporating - they demanded full rights to the code so they could close it to gain 'competitive advantage' or some bullshit
Re: Wouldn't that defeat the whole point of CM? (Score:2)
the primary point of CM is current OS support for "old" hardware - 18 month old gear abandoned by it's manufacturer. But even CM rarely extends beyond 3 yrs - I'd love to see a nonprofit that could keep up CM ports and see non-smartphone users get some of the social benefits without a huge monthly installment payment.
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I'd love to see a nonprofit that could keep up CM ports and see non-smartphone users get some of the social benefits without a huge monthly installment payment.
That depends on how many U.S. carriers are willing to activate low-minute voice-only service on Android phones. AT&T, for instance, is known to cram a data plan [slashdot.org] onto your bill if it sees a smartphone IMEI.
Offer (Score:2)
The article doesn't state what Google's offer was. It could have been $1 million for all we know. Cyanogen Inc. *wishes* it were worth $1 billion, and hopes investors actually believe that and thus will pump money into their company, but its actual value is probably far, far short of that, and more in the realm of whatever Google offered. The question is how will Cyanogen monetize the version of Android it produces. Is Micromax going to pay Cyanogen for its version of Android? And if so why pay for wha
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