Microsoft Quietly Starts Accepting Bitcoin As Payment Method 107
An anonymous reader writes A new page in the help guide in the payment information of Microsoft's website reveals that the Redmond giant is now accepting Bitcoin as a payment method for products and services on Windows, Windows Phone and Xbox. Currently the payments must go through to credit a Microsoft Wallet account, and the service is initially only available to U.S. users. But the wording of the new page combines with an expansive year for Microsoft and a number of positive statements about Bitcoin from Bill Gates to indicate that this first step is more than just an experiment. Microsoft is now the largest commercial entity accepting the Bitcoin currency, which it processes via the BitPay system, thus protecting the company from fluctuations in the value of Bitcoin. Also at CNN Money.
No more bitcoins for regular Joes (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm seriously starting to think that regular currency will be no more in the future. I should have started mining early though, you pretty much can't get bitcoins anymore without paying for them.
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I am just waiting for more legitimate businesses to start dealing with bit coins.
I mean most of the sites that you go to get bit coins are kinda questionable.
And it seems you can only buy cheap poor quality stuff with bit coins.
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Yep, they won't put you on a watchlist without a good reason...
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This is a meaningless phrase they'll throw at anything.
See also: Think Of The Children
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Every time I see those guys I point to the "Help Wanted" sign hanging in the store window.
But I like cash, for the casual anonymity.
As a Market Lover (Score:2, Interesting)
I find the emergence of bitcoin and other virtual currencies alarming. We have "free markets," that are governed by some type of ruling bodies be it the IMF or the Fed (not a government entity, for those that didn't know). However, the acceptance of an unregulated currency is strife with the ability for fraud and manipulation. However, as a stock trader (see my blog The Market is not Random [tminr.com]), the emergence of these currencies that trade on pure technical patterns is something that must be embraced if it
Re:As a Market Lover (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm like you in that I don't like the idea of a self regulated currency, but I don't find Bitcoin to be a problem because I have always looked at it as an investment similar to a stock or a bond. When you buy a Bitcoin you are buying the chance that they will become more valuable in the future. Funny enough the people who have made the most money from Bitcoin are the exchange traders and early adopters.
I think as long as you look at Bitcoin as a commodity and transactions like a barter or trade system then there isn't much of a problem when both parties understand that they are trading in goods not currency. As far as an actual currency it is far too volatile. You can't have a currency that changes value significantly in the time it takes to get to the grocery store.
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I don't see a digitally created currency the same way as I would view a commodity such as gold or oil. The creation itself seems troubled with the possibility of fraud. The unregulated trading of the currency is also open to fraud. As someone who was charged with fraud and conspiracy, it alarms me.
Re:As a Market Lover (Score:5, Funny)
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The creation itself seems troubled with the possibility of fraud.
Do some reading. Bitcoin is absolutely uncounterfeitable.
Unfortunately, there have been more than a few fraudulent exchanges, which has more to do with the involvement of amateurs than anything else. The marketplace is improving fast.
Until 60 percent of the market... (Score:1)
Is under the control of a Cartel, and then the possibility exists to 'fork' the bitchain and take over that other 40 percent of coins.
Go look at the pie charts of bitcoin mining. The potential is already there.
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I don't believe that it is absolutely uncountefeitable. I did read the Wiki on it, but I don't think that any item digitally-based is safe. We are on /. after all ;)
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yet, the money in the bank is subject to federal depository insurance, and the credit cards have measures in place for fraud.
Re: Bitcoin creation (Score:2)
> I don't believe that it is absolutely uncountefeitable. I did read the Wiki on it, but I don't think that any item digitally-based is safe. We are on /. after all ;)
Then you don't understand the central invention in bitcoin, an accounting ledger that is public and cannot be altered. In order to counterfeit some bitcoins, you would have insert a transaction into everyone's copy of the ledger, and also have a valid checksum (hash). Without it, every copy of the software will reject the data as invalid.
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It is very difficult to forge a Bitcoin, and the only only known way (controlling a 50%+ share of the entire pool) can easily be discovered. If it is discovered that Bitcoins are being forged then the value tanks and the people who were forging them lose big money so I think its fairly safe on that front. Certainly less likely that the banking industry crashing the economy again.
As for treating it like a commodity there is a very good reason for that as well because just like gold Bitcoin has no inherent
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You can't have a currency that changes value significantly in the time it takes to get to the grocery store.
Agreed, but the hope/expectation is that as the user base grows, the valuation will become less volatile, making it more useful as a currency.
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You have it backwards. Inflation keeps people from hoarding, not deflation.
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Investments are risky. There are no "sure" bets.
Therefore, some people will always horde (or save) rather than invest because they are that risk averse. So inflation might encourage them to either invest or spend, because their money loses value if they put it in the attic.
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People horde in both cases.
Inflation: they horde for the big interest.
Deflation: they horde to buy "worthy" goods cheaper.
However I agree that common agreed hypothesis is that they horde more in case of deflation and that that hording hurts the economy more. However: my impression is that this "fear" is overrated.
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Inflation: they horde for the big interest.
Interest rates are typically less than or equal to the rate of inflation when the lender can demand that the principle be redeemed at will. This is the case for savings accounts and the like. This means that hoarding money in a savings account reduces its value over time.
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No, saving accounts are usually above inflation and interest for credits is even higher.
However regular accounts, giro accounts for money transfer, have very low interests and often very high ones if you overdraw them. So bottom line, this is true This means that hoarding money in a savings account reduces its value over time. if you do not pay attention to your money.
Re: As a Market Lover (Score:2)
I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Please provide a link to a savings account that you can immediately withdraw from without penalty that also higher interest than inflation.
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Sorry, I guess we have a "mismatch in terminology" and probably in what you wrote.
You never said: "saving account" where you can "withdraw immediately without penalty".
On the other hand: all my accounts have a higher interest than inflation.
http://vb-ka.de/ [vb-ka.de] my bank ...
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Where I live, savings accounts are generally in the category of "withdraw immediately without penalty". And, as a result, the interest rate is at or lower than inflation.
Anyway, the point is that inflation does not cause people to hoard. Even in your case, where you have an account that has a higher interest rate than inflation, inflation isn't causing you to hoard. You are hoarding in spite of inflation.
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I did not say that inflation is a cause to hoard.
I said: regardless of inflation or deflation in both cases there is reason to hoard. While our parent claimed it is only true during deflation phases.
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See my other answer: on the other hand the "published" official inflation is often "wrong" and not the perceived inflation the population has, so hording money for interest is quite often pointless.
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The thing that scares me about Bitcoin is that a significant portion of the total bitcoins that can exist are out of circulation in a few private, anonymous, hands. One of these early adopters could easily crash the whole market, now, or just as easily in a possible future where bitcoin is a major currency.
Governments can crash their currencies but they have a pretty big incentive not to. Bitcoin, no matter how big it gets, could crash just because anonymous18283@hotmail.com decides he wants to cash out and
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Exactly, the first million or so bitcoins have never been in circulation, why are the creators just sitting on them?
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Wall Street had every incentive to keep status quo intact, yet they crashed worldwide economy anyway. As long as you'll have markets, you'll have people who "win" and get into position to cause havoc. It's the very carrot/stick combo that drives capitalism and gives it efficiency: if you w
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How did you figure my bitcoin handle? And no, I prefer to buy Icelands!
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The IMF, the Fed, the BoE (etc) may all be officially independent but this independence is a farce for at least two reasons:
i) the buy government 'assets'
ii) they create money (not currency) out of thin air at the behest of the government
We constantly have this debate. Read: digital records over paper records for finance; digital records over paper records for medicine, digital (publicly auditable!) records for money over the records kept by an old boy's club.
I don't see how digital currency is mechanically
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Fraud - they've just added a new app called "OpenBazaar" that adds consumer protection. The funds are held in escrow until either (A) both seller and buyer agree the deal is done, or (B) the escrow investigates the dispute and makes a ruling (like PayPal or VISA). More advanced forms of consumer protection are forthcoming, all opt-in and competing with one another.
Manipulation - this will have to go down naturally as market depth increases. There is unfortunately no way to prevent manipulation entirely, bec
Re:As a Market Lover (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Bitcoin (Score:2)
> I just hope it does not become publicly accepted. Can someone help convince me that bitcoin is the way to go?
Modern money, like the US Dollar, is just how we keep track of who owes something to others, or is owed something. Mostly the tracking is via bank ledgers, but occasionally it is on paper (as in paper money). Almost every dollar in existence represents a debt, either treasury bonds, mortgages, or other bank loans. Dollars make the debt easily traded in convenient units.
Bitcoin also uses a led
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Re:No. They are NOT accepting bitcoin for payment. (Score:5, Insightful)
you are being silly, most dollars in existence are data in federal reserve bank computers, physical currency a small fraction
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Essentially *all* Dollars, in a computer or in paper, are just representations of debt. When the Federal Reserve issues paper money, it's backed by Treasury bonds and mortgages. When banks make loans, the loan check is backed by the loan they just made.
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Or more insidiously, backed by the loan they just made to some other guy.
So, essentially the proposition is that one can pay back principal plus interest with the assets of existing principal, considered on the level of the financial system as a whole.
While it is a remarkably convenient system by which the banks can steal the added value of all human productivity gains, it remains the case that P + I != P, and inability to repay loans is inevitable. But by then, of course, the banks have the actual gains f
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Seriously. I have yet to walk into a store and have them refuse my actual dollars.
Re:No. They are NOT accepting bitcoin for payment. (Score:5, Informative)
I accept Euros as payment for my services, and I convert them directly to UKP because I don't have a Euro account. This occurs at my bank in between the client paying and me receiving the money. That doesn't mean I don't "accept Euros as payment", and only an idiot would suggest it does, since I manifestly do accept Euros as payment. L2Think.
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Pedantry at its finest.
It's like saying "nobody accepts credit cards" because your credit card processor deposits USD in your bank.
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If you quote a price in Euros and stand by it if the value of the Euro fluctuates then you can say you accept Euros... but it seems this is not the case here. It'd seem MS quotes the price of whatever you're buying according to BitPay's conversion rate at the instant the payment is done. ... So MS is accepting bitcoin as a form of payment but not as a form of currency.
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Of course they subcontract the actual BTC processing to someone else. That's not the point. The point is that they deemed the demand sufficient to warrant doing something like that in the first place, and to make a public announcement about it.
with bitpay, everyone can accept bitcoins (Score:3)
With 3rd party services like BitPay, everyone can update their services/site to accept BitCoin with no additional risk, right? No real risk, yet, big political statement.
This explains it! (Score:1)
Steve Ballmer IS Satoshi Nakamoto!
The Worry Exists (Score:1)
A way to ruin it besides the exchanges breaking themselves? Because the systems are borderline unusable as they are.
If you are late to the party, there really is no point in participating on the bitcoin speculatory game. It makes for great comedy though.
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A way to ruin it besides the exchanges breaking themselves?
The concept of "cryptocurrency" is still fairly new. Maybe there lurks some kind of deficiency which we are not aware of right now, but which some smart guy will discover one day. Of course, we can't use any kind of system if we constantly worry about some flaw which isn't even known to exist. But it's good to think about this stuff every now and then.
Re:The Worry Exists (Score:4, Interesting)
I like crypto currencies like Dogecoin because it allows websites and games to trade in fractions of cents, which would be impossible with standard payment methods that charge cents in trading fees.
As an example, here's a game that will allow plays to trade Dogecoin for in-game services and goods:
https://www.universeprojects.c... [universeprojects.com]
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And what's wrong with that? Even if you bury them in Dogecoin transactions, they're only worth 0.00021$USD as of this writing. So you'd need to be charged 48 whole Dogecoins before hitting one cent. If a website I like reading every day charged me 1 Dogecoin per day in subscription fees I wouldn't mind if it helped them.
I know you'll say it isn't much, but web hosting really doesn't cost much unless you have millions of visitors every day.
Let's say your Web hosting costs 10$USD per month. Let's also assume
blood (Score:2)
I read this as "microsoft quietly starts accepting blood as payment". Need morning blood coffee!
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