Top Silicon Valley Execs and Others Urge Congress To Fund K-12 Computer Science Education (techcrunch.com) 125
An anonymous reader shares a TechCrunch report:Some of the biggest names in tech and corporate America, including Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Apple CEO Tim Cook, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg and Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, have teamed up with governors and educators to ask Congress to provide $250 million in federal funding to school districts in order to give every single K-12 student in the nation an opportunity to learn how to code. On the legislative side, these tech CEOs are joined by governors from both sides, including California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) and Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson (R). Earlier this year, President Barack Obama called for more than $4 billion in funding for states, and $100 million for districts in order to bring computer science curricula to every single K-12 student in the country. What this group of CEOs, governors and educators is asking for today is different. They're saying that this issue can be addressed without growing the federal budget. The petition reads:Not only does computer science provide every student foundational knowledge, it also leads to the highest-paying, fastest-growing jobs in the U.S. economy. There are currently over 500,000 open computing jobs, in every sector, from manufacturing to banking, from agriculture to healthcare, but only 50,000 computer science graduates a year. Whether a student aspires to be a software engineer, or if she just wants a well-rounded education in today's changing world, access to computer science in school is an economic imperative for our nation to remain competitive. And with the growing threat of cyber warfare, this is even a critical matter of national security. Despite this growing need, targeted federal funding to carry out these efforts in classrooms is virtually non-existent. This bipartisan issue can be addressed without growing the federal budget.
Why do I have to pay? (Score:3, Insightful)
Surely those assholes can scrape together a paltry $250 million dollars from their personal piggybank.
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You want to have K–12 student loans? Sorry bobby but to pay for k-12 you have to sign your life over to chase bank.
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Look up "PTA fundraising" and be enlightened.
Re: Why do I have to pay? (Score:1)
That's enough from the peanut gallery, thanks. There is a gaping difference between raising $250 million dedicated to a single goal and a cake sale to keep Springfield Elementary open.
Why ask the Government? (Score:5, Insightful)
The individuals listed could personally pony up $250 million from petty cash. Why ask the government for funding?
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Billionare Beggar rule #1: Never personally pay for something when you can get middle-class taxpayers to foot the bill.
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They are - giving $48M in private donations (Score:2)
The individuals listed could personally pony up $250 million from petty cash. Why ask the government for funding?
They're donating collectively $48M. Think of it as a 1,000,000:1 matching donation - you give $1, they each give $1M or more.
Source (better article than TFA: https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com] )
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The only thing better than lowering the salary of your employees by flooding the job market with candidates is to have the government foot the bill using the money of the guys who will have their salary cut.
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The harm it can do is to get these millions of students (theoretically) trained up and indoctrinated on proprietary bullshit (not to mention indoctrinated on seeing copyright law as an entitlement to authors as opposed to a means to the end of enriching the Public Domain), so as to further marginalize open standards and Free Software.
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From my own experience, people will use proprietary software even when an adequate, or even better, free software alternative exists, simply because they don't know enough or don't care enough about technology to be aware of the difference. Proprietary software comes with massive marketing, which is what makes people aware of those products. It wasn't until I started to learn how to program that I was even introduced to the concept of open source or
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Dear Government, (Score:5, Insightful)
Please train our future workforce with someone else's money.
Yours truly,
Rich Silicon Valley Companies
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PS: Just don't expect us to employ them. We're moving all our operations to India. And thanks for all those juicy tax breaks.
Re:Dear Government, (Score:5, Interesting)
WHO are you kidding??
future workforce is exactly the same as today's tech workforce. 90% from india, 8% from misc asia, the rest from western countries, including US born.
training US kids is just going to wast their time and money and set them up for eventual upset.
you want to fix this economy: start enforcing h1b quotas or get rid of it entirely until our OWN unemployement sinks to proper and normal levels.
until you stop the h1b abuse, everything you say about 'tech shortage' is KNOWN BULLSHIT. we don't want to hear your cries for ever cheaper indentured servants. we're so totally sick of your shit, we're ready to revolt. and unless something changes in the next cycle, there will be non-peaceful periods of time. when people are pushed to homelessness, this WILL happen.
fix it now or pay the piper later.
but don't cry to us about fake shortages, mr. rich asshole ceo!
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They want someone else to train their alternate workforce so they can pretend there's competition to push down the wages of their actual workforce but not good enough competition to force them to stop hiring foreigners.
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http://money.usnews.com/career... [usnews.com]
If someone can't find work as a software developer in the US, here's the reality: that person is bad at their job.
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Amen! They don't pay their fair share of taxes, then demand more services from the taxes they don't pay!
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The government should be out of the business of training workforce members.
Are you saying that nothing should be taught in public schools that is of relevance to the world of work...?
A computer is a tool that can be used in any field of work, so it's a major nuisance for most industries that they have subject area specialists who can't understand computers, and computer specialists who can't understand the subject area, and the two have to exchange information in terms each other understands in order to develop a business application together. The inevitable miscommunications and
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Re:"Computer Science Education" (Score:5, Insightful)
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because they are not removed from the classroom, the rest of the kids that still have a chance are prevented from learning
It was like this in the 70's and by far (like 100x) the biggest difference hat I noticed between public and private schools. I don't recall a single disruption in my entire (private) high school career and I'm sure if there was one, he offending student would be permanently removed that day. We even had off campus rules of conduct where you could be expelled if a teacher or administrator witnessed you doing something against the rules in a public (non school) place...and there were maybe half a dozen expuls
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We let parents dictate what their children should be taught,
Definitely not true. Perhaps we let "the collective" decide, but I assure you that what I see in elementary school in particular makes me visibly angry.
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My issue is that you really, really shouldn't be teaching someone to code without teching them general computer literacy.
"Computer literacy" usually means the ability to use a word processor, and a browser. That is NOT necessary to learn programming. 3rd and 4th graders can learn programming using Scratch [mit.edu] without knowing any other applications. If by "computer literacy", you mean understanding how computers actually work, that is certainly not necessary. I have met very capable CS PhDs that don't know what a transistor is.
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"Computer literacy" usually means the ability to use a word processor, and a browser.
It may, but it shouldn't, ideally. A computer is a universal programmable device. Learning how to use a word processor and a browser is more like common apps literacy. Teaching kids how to use MS Word and calling it "computer literacy" sounds to me like teaching kids how to replicate the glyphs of Lord's Prayer and calling it "teaching to write". A universal medium doesn't work like that.
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Great, now tell me why I need to understand the intricacies of operating systems programming, just to write a simple program?
You don't need to. But knowing things like directory structures and other general computing knowledge like that is far, far more useful than minimal programming knowledge. Your analogy is backwards: general computing is like checking oil while programming is like rebuilding the engine. One is very useful even if you just have a little bit of knowledge, the other much less so. I'm not trying to say "don't teach anyone to program", just pointing out the idiocy in teaching them some very specific skill in one
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My issue is that you really, really shouldn't be teaching someone to code without teching them general computer literacy. It's a bit like trying to teach someone calculus without teaching them algebra first.
You mean like what the HtDP project is trying?
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You realize that coding is applicable to more than just a CS degree, right? I'm a mechanical engineer that ends up coding for 80% of my job. It's a tool to get a job done. We have a pretty decent shortage of engineers that can code. There are more jobs out there where coding lends itself to 'automate the boring things'.
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I was thinking the same thing if computer science was taught in k-12 they could be hiring in tech grubs at a dollar or two above minimum wage since every high school graduate would probably have better education than our current tech colleges provides in a 2 year degree.
Re:Of course they do - future cheap labor (Score:5, Insightful)
They want more people in the industry so they can flood the market with labor and lower the pay of their tech employees.
Close. They want to create the perception that more people are desperately needed in the industry so that they can have political cover to import more foreign workers on H1B visas, so they can flood the market with foreign labor and lower the pay of their tech employees.
meanwhile.... (Score:1)
those same companies also beg, lobby and bribe for more h1-b visas.. and not because there currently exists a lack of qualified persons for those jobs
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Speak for your self and your kids. Mine are growing up just fine. It's called parental involvement. Quite relying on schools to teach your kids the basics you should be teaching them. Even better, teach them and send them to private school too. Best of both worlds.
If you refuse to do the above then welcome to government education camps.
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Basics like how to write English?
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Basics like how to write English?
Yeah because typos are the same as not understanding the basics of English. Sorry, next time I'll proof read and hire an editor. I guess when you can't argue based on the substance you'll just have to happy arguing about the typos.
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[sic]Quite relying on schools to teach your kids the basics you should be teaching them.
Not exactly the solution that I find works as well as you might expect.
Problem 1) Your child may get very bored, since you will be surprised how SLOOWWWWLY they teach things
Problem 2) Your child may do math in a way that confuses or irritates his teacher
Here's a cool story that happens to be true.
I figured hey I could teach my child addition with multiple digit numbers, and I did, at 4 years of age he picked it right up
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My kid is in montessori right now, I fully expect him to be bored out of his mind when he starts kindergarten next year.
I too expect to get taken aside in the hall way for teaching my kid wrong way...
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Well said.
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Us too (Score:1)
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They already did, they're called "robots". Signed, a welder and a former member of the middle class.
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Mercedes at least is removing the robots:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/... [bloomberg.com]
At least for small batchs humans with their flexibility are are better than robots.
Why train domestic workers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Aren't these the same companies that lay off US based workers in favor of H1-Bs? Why train more US workers just so they can be replaced before they can even start?
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Here's why!
1: Train kids in CompSci
2: Tech savvy people go out and implement new ideas, create cool new tech and software
3: "Job creators" acquire new tech, software and relevant companies
4: Hire H1Bs to replace the staff.
I must be getting old (Score:2)
I must be getting old. I read the headline and think, "Yep, we've seen this before. Next, they'll be pushing secondary education again. And shortly after that, they'll be requesting more H1B visas - you know, like has happened about 3 or 4 times in the past 20 years."
Do you know what the best way is to fuck up a supply based economy? Involve the government.
Bullshit (Score:3)
They arn't trying to give kids opportunities. They want to saturate the market, at the taxpayers expense, so that they can pay bottom dollar for what amounts to digital Factory Workers.
They want quality developers, but they don't want to pay for them. Yet they keep trying to get it both ways, which is why all these H1B-sucking temp companies are doing so well.
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They want the McDonald's of tech industry so they can pay everyone minimum wage.
"If she..." (Score:1)
Using feminine pronouns as though neutral always irks me. Are they implying only females will now want to code? "He" can be a neutral pronoun, "she" cannot.
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Well in today's cultural war, if the pronoun can associate to whatever bathroom it wants based on it's own self gender identity.
So easy to teach... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article...This group of CEOs, governors and educators is...saying that this issue can be addressed without growing the federal budget..."We’ll use the money to train over 25,000 public school teachers to introduce computer science to students who would otherwise never have this opportunity.”
This group appears to claim that no additional money needs to be spent if we can use the existing teacher workforce to teach computer science. If that's the case, what will those teachers no longer teach? I mean, it's not like teachers are sitting around all day with nothing to do. Should we pull math teachers, and just teach less math? Or maybe the music teachers? We can always teach less music, and I'm sure music teachers will have no troubles learning how to code, right? And certainly these coders will be top quality, having been trained by the best math teachers and music teachers our country has to offer.
I wish government officials could realize one day that there's never an educational initiative that comes without a cost. Training costs money. People cost money. Computers cost money. Electricity costs money. Time costs money. So tell this group of CEOs, governors and educators not to put another single unfunded mandate onto the table until they fund the ones they've been mandating so far.
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It depends on the state. In Michigan, we can't seem to fix Flint's water, our crumbling roads and infrastructure, or a come up with a sane tax system. The only thing the legislature seems capable of is passing laws every year that cause chaos in public schools.
So go ahead, and be like the legislature and line up to kick a teacher. It is such a fun game.
The bad news is that the teacher workforce is in decline. [npr.org] Great teachers are leaving 'en masse' and enrollment in Michigan teacher colleges is down over
Michigan's problems (Score:2)
In Michigan, we can't seem to fix Flint's water, our crumbling roads and infrastructure, or a come up with a sane tax system. The only thing the legislature seems capable of is passing laws every year that cause chaos in public schools.
That's substantially (though not entirely) because we have a republicans in control of the state house, state senate and governorship. As a result they break out in hives any time anyone mentions the word "tax". The only way we will fix Michigan's shitty roads is by raising taxes in some fashion and they are completely unwilling to do it. If you haven't been to Michigan lately, you literally can tell when you've crossed the border from Ohio or Indiana with your eyes close in many places. It's that bad.
On the soapbox (Score:3)
How many people realize that our education system has gone from the best in the world 100 years ago to 3rd rate today. Look at a test per grade in the 1900s and today, and see how "great" the takeover has been. Oh sure, it was gradual and planned to be gradual. Departments started pushing toward centralized testing and industrial education back in the 30s. Most schools were using Prussian education by the early 40s and Classical education was on the way out. The nail in the coffin however is when the Fe
"National Security?" (Score:4, Insightful)
All these companies bitch for more H1-B visas and then wonder why there aren't any US CS grads lining up? Seriously this is the biggest two-faced bunch of bullshit to come out of Corporate America in awhile.
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Next you'll tell us that political science isn't a rigorous experimental science.
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where? (Score:2)
There are currently over 500,000 open computing jobs
WHERE?!?!
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They are talking about software developers. And considering how hard it is to find and hire software developers, I have no problem believing that 500.000 more could get a job in USA
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Good News! Intel just laid off about 1000 of them in our area. They're not hiring them back either. So there's 1K of programmers right there.
Actually, I have some insight into this problem. It was once my job as head of the R&D dept for a software company to build up said dept. I too had great difficulty finding talented staff. Finally, after yet another extended evening interview session with no results, I called the people we were using for employment screening and said "Look, you're just wasting my t
Cheap bastards (Score:5, Informative)
Some of the biggest names in tech and corporate America, including Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Apple CEO Tim Cook, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg and Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, have teamed up with governors and educators to ask Congress to provide $250 million in federal funding to school districts in order to give every single K-12 student in the nation an opportunity to learn how to code.
Cash and cash equivalents on the balance sheet for US operations:
Apple $38 Billion [google.com]
Facebook $18 Billion [google.com]
Microsoft $105 Billion [google.com]
Walmart $8 Billion [google.com]
And they have the nerve to ask the taxpayers to pony up more for something they freely admit will benefit them? Here's an idea, they can fucking fund it themselves if they think it is so damn important. $250 million? Apple makes $70,000 in profit every 60 seconds [time.com]. That means Apple could cover the entire amount with the profit they make in 2.5 days.
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Most execs can be replaced with a small perl script, at massive savings for the shareholders. After all, its always about the most value for the shareholders, right? We actually need to work on this idea as a slashdot group, and publicly promote it; perhaps via social media. It would for sure change the political landscape a bit.
Demand, not supply... (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of getting the Government to fund computer science education, how about we just require computer companies to pay competitive salary? It doesn't require any tax dollars, and it's just crazy enough to work.
The problem is, the past 30 years have taught MBA's that *they're* the ones who are supposed to get the $200k salary, and the computer engineer is the one who's supposed to have a Masters and 20 years of experience in a 3 year old language and work for $60k until their job gets outsourced to India.
The problem will largely go away once the computer geek's biggest problem is "Do I buy the BMW or the Mercedes", and the MBA's are crying themselves to sleep, praying they can pay their student loans off before they hit 40 and are too old to spreadsheet.
All well and good... (Score:2)
Adding CS to the US K-12 system sounds all well and good, but I might suggest that they step up their game. The US K-12 system exists because manufacturers needed folks to work in the Industrial Age, manufacturing, who had more wanted people to work for them with more than an 8th Grade education.
Today's Knowledge Age employers need to not merely be asking for CS, they need to be asking for a Pre-K through Bachelors system to get the sort of workers they really want.
Coding != Computer Science (Score:2)
I really wish people would stop confusing computer science with programming computers. As the saying goes, "computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes".
My skepticism about being able to train school teachers aside, isn't it easier than it ever was for people to learn about computers, programming and comput
This is about reducing the value of developers (Score:2)
This is basic supply manipulation. These companies want H1B-style pricing for local developers.
Firing Americans to hire cheap Indian labour doesn't play well in the media. Solution: teach everyone to code. If everyone's a programmer, companies can play cheap locals off of cheap imports, and "hire more americans" at significant savings.
Optics solved, costs reduced, profits maximized, management class protected.
Assholes.
But what about... (Score:2)
Perhaps consider hiring unemployed, experienced IT workers instead of focusing on students fresh out of college? Just a thought...